nothing good comes of it. it's serious enough that it even has a legal definition. bullying is unwanted aggressive behavior that involves and observed or perceived power in balance and is repeated multiple times or is highly likely to be repeated. it may inflict harm or distress on the targeted individual, including physical, psychological, social, or even educational harm. bullying can be physical, verbal, or social and can result in physical damage to property. bullying is especially bad among young people, one and 4 report being bullied on school property as many as half report beings being bullied online. and the numbers are even worse among young people who identify as l g. b t q. what's more adults commonly bully other adults that leads to depression, anxiety, and even post traumatic stress disorder. for the victims and psychologist say, the childhood bullying can manifest itself as depression and anxiety in the victim

. as long as 40 years after the fact, jennifer foster is a whistleblower, a bullying advocate, a human rights activist and committee chair for the anti bullying group. better working lives for all. she engages government on legislative change to introduce anti bullying legislation, which has been presented to the irish minister for enterprise trade unemployment. she has testified about bullying before the irish parliament and has met with corporate leaders around the country to discuss bullying prevention. welcome to the show, jenny. thank so much for joining us. oh, thank you john. i'm absolutely honored to be here tonight and be of the day. so i'm for you, nighttime, for me. thank you to be able to speak to you here as the chair of the back of working nice for all messy. well, the pleasure is all mine, jenny, and i have so many questions that i almost don't know where to begin. so let's start with what bullying is and why some people become bullies in the 1st place. is

there a simple reason to that question? what's the psychology behind it? it's an extremely complex question. we, i'm, we have us, i know, as a professional and in that way. but i, we have asked the question many times within a multi disciplinary committee. and it's very difficult to once or well, makes a person a bully. you, it can be a power struggle. it can be something where it dislikes is taken to a person. there's many reasons behind why bullying occurs when it does, it can be very harmful and it has serious on long lasting effects. and that is why i started up the batch of working life scro, kamisky. and we've, since starting up we have gone from strength to strength. we hear so much about

childhood bullying, but it's not just confined to childhood adults can be bullies to. why do you think adults engage in bullying? there's many reasons why we have come to the conclusion why at adults and gauge and bullying is a lot of the time it's in, in security thing. they don't feel secure in their own positions. sometimes it's just the nature of the 1st and the other times it can be merely, they don't see themselves. so slowly they see it as robust management, which of course, is there anything boss? robust management. that's right. if, if one does an internet search on bullying and on the effects of bullying, there's really no good news. it causes depression and anxiety and it's victims. and it's not a rare occurrence to read articles about young people. and i've seen them as young as 10 years old, committing suicide because they can't stand the bullying. why isn't more being done

to educate people about bullying and to prevent it from happening in the 1st place . and what successful programs can you point to that should be emulated? john, to be very honest with you, that's an excellent question. last more should be done. and in, in my particular situation, i tried every different government department. i tried to every program or i need to say, let's see, dash as space. they look after an employee such as the hey, just say which the health and safety authority. um also, and the workplace relations commission, which is like your employer tell i'm in tribe, you know, but there's no where to go. so and at the moment there's many programs being uh, you know, and looked into at the moment. um gosh, i'm, there's a ways that we can get around this. so we can educate people and us. we at the

moment to and there isn't anything i could totally calling to boss. we are looking into us and the whistle blowers, a u. k. georgie, and how for toe is um advocating for with a bowers and i will be working alongside georgina. and hopefully we will look more into the resorting side of things. excellent. i'm interested to know as well if you get any push back when you work against bullying, i know that you're involved in things like legislation, for example, and workplace training. and even in providing support for people who have been bullied, are there nay sayers out there? are there people who are standing in your way or who don't appreciate the severity of bullying? john, i'm a very normal person. i know sam and professional or an academic, i'll be very honest with you. i'm not going to lie to anybody here tonight. so there's a lot of pushback i have engaged with governments. the government actually for

getting the, you know, they're very professional, but really they don't see the severity and it's not that they don't see the severity john is they know that if they introduce anti bullying laws, there's going to be pushback from employer representative from the end result versus out and look after employers and they're, they realize that it's going to be they're going to have a loss of that hospital if they bring in an anti bullying law. and that is why the moment we don't have an anti bullying law in europe and canada, they have something of that nature, but they don't have an anti bullying law in your we do have and the you direct of them with the blowing which has come into the and in 2014 days of this year. and it gives extra protections for with employers. but it's certainly something that has to be down to us and it has to be dealt with in every go ferment

level on so many of these big national issues, social issues like this, we see very clear battle lines being drawn. are you getting any support from, let's say, the trade union movement, or social activist, or the l g b t q, community? who can you count on as your natural allies in this fight? and well, send me enough, john, because i am quite new to this. and the banks are working 90 committee and i have engaged with one of the largest union dinner and, and i had an initial meeting waste with the deaf you see a couple of weeks ago. and 2 very kindly invited me in this week. so i'm hoping that that they will be coming out i of ours and that we can push true something that's well suits employers and employees. because we have to realize, john, this is we just negotiate or advocate on behalf of employees. we've lost

um really we've lost a lot of hope because we have to show the employer that by having a robust on to bullying legislation, policy and policies and procedures, it protects the actual and i'm sorry themselves as well as the employee. so we just have to make sure that they're aware that it's not that we shouldn't, we do want to help them, but we also want to protect the employee and keep them safe in their work place. right. and what about support on a more broad scale? are you getting any support from the european union, the european commission, the european court of human rights? is there any measurable market support coming from europe as you, as you take this on or not? yes, john, now that is something that i am working with the i was human rights and equality commission. and i had a recent success in regards to

a company that was violating human rights on ice. and we stood our ground and, and thank gods, they have them being forced to introduce an ethics on human rights policy. and that is a real success because to individuals. and it came to me on to provided a personal statement. and um i, i brought it to a government policy and the government policy makers, they didn't want to know the health and safety car see they didn't want to know. um and i, i basically, i was a, did i make them on the, on behalf of i've got the company now as a introduce there is a policy and their human rights policy. good. and tell us a little bit about the politics of, of all this is this part is an issue in ireland, a political issue, or are you getting support or even opposition across the political spectrum?

well, it's, it's funny. you should say that john, because we have a situation where we have a coalition. so we have a number of policies that form governments. it's very difficult to pin and a govern government official down or minister down. mm hm. we find that the department of enterprise trading and telling me to, although they did matrices and they are still considering whether to go forth with the proposal we have, we have them provide it to them. we have. and because i think you might know that ireland is it'd be goss and northern ireland as well, which is 6 counties. now my recently mess with naomi law who is the leader of the alliance party in up in northern ireland and also their honda. and we go to the top to perception of their and it looks like that they will hopefully in the, in the coming months and take this situation seriously. so and if, if,

if it looks like no, norland will bring in upon an anti bullying policy because they, they, their system is slightly different to ours. we can bring it all in together. i mean, what would really stop at our and doing the same thing. um, we, we, you know, we could just be amazing. we, we, we could, um, our engineers and national partners could, you know, see the, our little island, the island of, nor now and i brought in and not the building policy to protect workers and employers am like, and to form a form at a very strong policy and procedure and remedy for workplace bullying. we are speaking with with the blower and activist jennifer foster about bullying. we're going to take a short break and come right back and talk with jenny about her own story and was of long stay with us. 2

the kind of liberal agenda received. the west now is not really we based, but it's a kind of ways i really just create an outside to crowd of all sorts of real estate practical objections to validation create team and kind of city on the hill on the, on that plan. so i'm putting on the phone says is that how much is panel? well, no, i'm not gonna let him know how much a letter, quoted us,

all, i'm not fixing that amount of money. is avoid the mistake dental to share because i've already, if you need another shan low, but i want you to do policy and follow crumbs on to look really nice. i did was i ask whom one can easily do that. so i know that you might know the import us when you might need to allow for us to have to be to disability. since you're working off of the on may off what i see on the would you put it on the restaurant? but again, it should be new sheets i have come through and it offers cool lot. but just showing the money in the book that you know, number one, let me know you the like i feel like murder mysteries on friends made to have also defined not once back on my list, i pretty sort of despair. i make all that i have to go in and work on what you're doing. i'm that i'm in a lot

a lot to do. they've done with being picked up to. i've been in the past on the phone with those shifts. you have to renew that for the money don't. so i was, you know, mid thank you m, let me in 0. you will get onto to ship the slot, said i am pushing, pull up on the the 1st time in history. if any anti countries culture has been canceled, that'd be more than welcome to cancel the culture. you need to ask one of the stuff in my life, so little trunks. it just means that even one a to put the glue. the phrase now particularly refers to canceling russian culture . and yet the worst it creates a few of those that i get to bring in my folks to pittsville renewal for these children. so is that the most of the subject, shalanda, m e. the moines,

blood rushes created the pos 1500 years. there's no questions, partially condemned, reviled and rejected to sit alone and use that to put somebody at the middle of panel. there's a lot, i don't know because i don't know, she doesn't talk to you. so the little some of the list joining total comes of nation grows daily and now including those to instigate, to call scape shostakovich get the i need to. yeah, of course to left, but yes she it was. can you think that would be the w d? i'm a you're welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john to reaku. we're speaking with anti bullying

activist whistleblower and human rights advocate. jennifer foster. jenny, thanks again for being with us. oh, it's a, it's a, it's a pleasure. it's a pleasure, don john to thank you jenny. we've been talking about the psychology behind bullying and i'd like to know about your own story. what got you involved in working against bullying? how did this all begin for you? what is a personal experience? i hodge m i my life is bullying in my work place. i worked in hospitality and uh it was a case to us i raise on behalf of others of his working and results. my insured at the time, i am raised to add 3 and grievances of items and bullying at the time was was i actually didn't realize that one was quite serious and it was in fact mister per appropriation of government funds. and i quickly realized i was in an,

you know, very hoarse or so therefore engaged. and as i said earlier, engaged a lot of government departments. i engage anyone. i paused because i realized that not only was i in danger, but the people that i had named in, in, in the grievances were also in danger. so that's really the walk of me involved. you've written about coming into contact with bullied people who had attempted suicide or who had suicide will ideation. how did you use those experiences to transition into activism? it was ice. i realized very quickly, haven't started the badger working lives throughout. may i see that on my profile i was kind of get and, and you know, the bigger and bigger island people were contacting me personally. i just did not feel equipped for us. so i engaged in charge the call suicide or survive. and they gave me some at are they gave me a try, a training, which is called

a supports or training course in order for me to be able to carry you safely. listening service for somebody who feels bullied, i'm sorry, suicidal may be bullied in the work place. um so yeah, i mean, i have engaged with quite a number on them of people that have either attempted suicide or have had suicidal ideation. and it is not a nice place to be for them. and for me to try and guide them was very frightening bus. and i have had a lot of success and i'm delighted for that. they do feel protected by me, a lot of people and feel protected by me because i do feel protective of them in general, the worker, i feel very protective of them. thank goodness. tell us about the legislation that you worked on and pushed through the lot through into law in the republic of ireland. and there we haven't actually we have just proposed like just to it's not even that just relation at this stage. okay. proposals to the department of

enterprise trade unemployment. so we are hoping john das are administers. we'll see the merits of this. we're really positive and i haven't received an answer from the minister. i think he is thinking very carefully because the climate is just right now. i think people have had enough on our commission. we have 2 members of the defense forces who are actually the women of honor who have been bullied into around wise and uh, and has uh they work separately to us. but they, but their advocates for the best of working on small kamisky and the stuff has uh, they recently met our prime is to reach to our t shirts and our toner. so which is the deputy prime minister. and we, and hopefully there will be a staff stray inquiry. so i think people have just added enough jobs and it is time for us to protect people in their work,

places against bullying. are there any laws in europe or elsewhere that might serve as a, as a template? let's say for what i like to jump. that's the problem. and this is exactly where we are asked. it was one of the questions our minister asked is do we have a task placed suite and they're looking to bring in some sort of them as like a logical and safety legislation. i haven't been able to get a guess and guesses at the moment. but they are looking to do it sometime this year . so that would be, i'd say that it would probably be fairly on the same lines, but we're looking for and we're, we're basically looking for a situation where a bully person does not have to go through a tribe, you know, and then a separate car case. the guess remedy because at the moment that is the case. and if you don't win in the course, it can cost you very dearly. so, and

a lot of people by the stage there, so psychologically bullied and is already there so. so until it's pretty damaged that it's almost impossible for the person to face a very stressful core case, right? jenny? where should people go? what should they do if they're being bullied? what's the standard procedure and how can our viewers learn more about the work that you do? a wise well we, i, we, i am fast, we have a long list and dr. cast a catherine phillips who is from canada. we have started with myself and katherine are the co founders of the hash tag, bullied to movement. and um, we have a website which we will explain all the terminology of, of bullying. so a to and for instance, when you're in a situation where you're bullied, you don't quite understand this. and sometimes it takes so time for you to actually

realize you're being bullied. and so we have an a brochure. and all the websites we have and definitions of all the different aspects of bullying. and dr web slides is at w, w, w dot, bullied to movement, dot com. and there will be, it says it's really for information only. we don't have a supporters group with us. mm hm. but i am also on linkedin under jennifer foster adventure working lives world and where i can help. i do have an icon us and see people damaged in their workplace. if i can help i'm, we have a lot of amazing culture and contributors in our them themselves. and i've some amazing people. i rely on day and day. i don't work for local government agencies. i have an amazing person called frank. i'm like to have some i wouldn't have gotten this far as so we've got people that's and day and days and help me. they protect

me as well because you've been mentioned detriment that sometimes i do get myself into hot water because i am very passionate about this subject and i go back down and i do advertise and ministers, etc. respectfully. i would hope that i would hope they would fail because i do raise the issue and i won't stop raising the issue until legislation goes into ireland to protect people that are harmed in their work places. and finally, jenny, what advice would you give young people or even children, if they are being bullied, where can they turn to? the 1st thing you do is be, are being bullied as you tell somebody that you trust and you tell them straight away before it gets worse. and also, especially for children, it's very important to tell a trusted adults. and this is happening because sometimes you build it up so much

in your hands that you, you are so fearful because there are people there to help. if you're an adult in a workplace, i would advise you before you actually raise it to your hate or department that you take what it's called pumps and contemporaneous notes, which is after the issue, you take notes, you make sure they do have dates, times situation. so that if you do go to hate or that you have a full list of all the situations that you know have happened, but then you have proved that happened on any emails or anything else that you can, you can provide. it's a difficult one, john. i'll be very honest with you sometimes. you know, you would think it's easier to walk away then go through the rigors of stage or departments which sometimes unfortunately, they are not working for the employee. in some cases they are working for the employer. and um i,

i sometimes feel that it is and really difficult decision to make me document document document. i would like absolutely document everything. absolutely everything you can never go wrong. i want to thank our guest, jennifer foster for joining us in for the important work that she's doing. and i'd like to thank our viewers for tuning and bullying is never fun. never. it's a cool and terrible thing to do to someone. if you are being bullied, no, that is not your fault. no one deserves to be bullied. ever. the brilliant actress, octavia butler once said, not everyone has been a bully for the victim of, for everyone has seen bullying and seeing it has responded to it by joining in or by objecting by laughing or by keeping silence by feeling disgusted or feeling interested when you see bullying, do the right thing. and you know what the right thing is. i'm john to reaku. thank

you for watching the whistle blowers until next time the the, the best thing to do. so that's it. the series doing it

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biological weapons program that the world had every now through you know, to production with it. so i guess it will show the great deal to the youth. suddenly looking through a few things, keep a move model mazda thought this name nguyen, one of our, from the sale. i noticed, i wish to know about doing so need. i know you gave him some more the to your side of the scholars and why the a party bill, because you cannot push the couch. so that's good to go. if you want to fund this to somebody and you want to hold on site, isn't more simone?

good. so you got on the, on the, on the put the ticket bucket together was which to search as well as the other way not to move on to see what's printing. what was that was there so sounds good. just so basically of course we need your last name was needed, read it was can, will be used to be live. imagine we have support for someone who is this, we would show new people to the the

or not just for the president of the russian federation who has invited us. but it's also a success for african countries because of russia is a winner. and everyone is the winner in this for it's of unity of the think drives all the joint declaration, leaders feel the geo political achievements of the 2nd. deborah, russia, africa summit for western nations, play dollar the importance of the offense. those attending say such gatherings aren't bipolar to keep pace and the rough but bleep changing world. we need pay more or less. yeah, i'll send me to this vision. so some is this summit is.