around the world, it leads to depression, anxiety and in some cases, suicide. the us centers for disease control reports that one out of every 5 us students is bullied during the normal school year and half of all students report having been bullied online. so why is it so difficult to get a handle on this international problem? why would anybody be opposed to anti bullying legislation? and why are so many adults who should know better police themselves? i'm john kerry onto and you're watching the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 bullying is a societal scourge. nothing good comes of it. it's serious enough that it even has a legal definition. bullying is unwanted aggressive behavior that involves an observed or perceived power in balance and is repeated multiple times or is highly likely to be repeated. it may inflict harm or distress on the targeted individual,

including physical, psychological, social, or even educational harm. bullying can be physical, verbal, or social and can result in physical damage to property. bullying is especially bad among young people, one and for report being bullied on school property as many as half report beings being bullied online. and the numbers are even worse among young people who identify as l g. b t q. what's more adults commonly bully other adults that leads to depression, anxiety, and even post traumatic stress disorder. for the victims and psychologist say, the childhood bullying can manifest itself as depression and anxiety in the victim . as long as 40 years after the fact, jennifer foster is a whistleblower, a bullying advocate, a human rights activist and committee chair for the anti bullying group. a better working lives for all. she engages government on legislative change to introduce

anti bullying legislation, which has been presented to the irish minister for enterprise trade unemployment. she has testified about bullying before the irish parliament and is met with corporate leaders around the country to discuss bullying prevention. welcome to the show, jenny. thank so much for joining us. oh, thank you john. i'm absolutely honored to be here tonight and be of the day. so i'm for you, nighttime, for me. thank you to be able to speak to you here as the chair of the batch of working lives for all messy. while the pleasure is all mine, jenny and i have so many questions that i almost don't know where to begin. so let's start with what bullying is and why some people become bullies in the 1st place. is there a simple reason to that question? what's the psychology behind it? it's an extremely complex question. we, i'm, we have us, i know it's a professional. and in that way, but i,

we have asked the question many times within a multi disciplinary committee. and it's very difficult to once or well, makes a person a bully. you, it can be a power struggle. it can be something where it dislikes is taken to a person. there's many reasons behind why bullying occurs when it does, it can be very harmful and it has the state areas and long lasting effects. and that is why i started of the best of working lives from kamisky. and we've since starting up, we have gone from strength to strength. we hear so much about childhood bullying, but it's not just confined to childhood adults can be bullies to. why do you think adults engage in bullying? and there's many reasons why we have come to the conclusion, why at adults and gauge and bullying is a lot of the time it's in,

in security thing. they don't feel secure in their own positions. sometimes it's just the nature of the 1st and the other times it can be merely, they don't see themselves. so slowly they see it as robust management, which of course is on the same boss, robust management. that's right. if, if one doesn't internet search on bullying and on the effects of bullying, there's really no good news. it causes discretion and anxiety and it's victims. and it's not a rare occurrence to read articles about young people. and i've seen them as young as 10 years old, committing suicide because they can't stand the bullying. why isn't more being done to educate people about bullying and to prevent it from happening in the 1st place . and what successful programs can you point to that should be emulated? a john to be very honest with you, that's an excellent question. last more should be done. and in,

in my particular situation, i tried every different government department. i tried to every program or i need to say, let's see, dash as space they look after an employee such as the hey, just say which the health and safety authority. i'm also, and the worst case relations commission, which is like your employment til i'm in tribe, you know, but there's no where to go. so, and at the moment there's many programs being uh, you know, and looked into at the moment. um gosh, i'm, there's a ways that we can get around this. so we can educate people on that. we at the moment to and there isn't anything i could totally calling to boss. we are looking into us and the whistle blowers, a u. k. georgie, and how for the whole is um advocating for with

a bowers and i will be working alongside georgina. and hopefully we will look more into the resorting side of things. excellent. i'm interested to know as well if you get any push back when you work against bullying, i know that you're involved in things like legislation, for example, and workplace training. and even in providing support for people who have been bullied, are there nay sayers out there? are there people who are standing in your way or who don't appreciate the severity of bullying? john, i'm a very normal person. i'm not in a professional or an academic, i'll be very honest with you. i'm not going to lie to anybody here tonight. so there's a lot of pushback. i have engaged with governments. the government actually for meeting the, you know, they're very professional, but really they don't see the severity and it's not that they don't see the severity gone is they know that if they introduce anti bullying laws, there's going to be pushback from employer representative from the end result

versus out and look after employers and they're, they realize that it's going to be they're going to have a loss of that hospital if they bring in an anti bullying law. and that is why at the moment we don't have a non to going on in your, in canada, they have something of that nature, but they don't have an anti bullying law in your. we do have and the you direct of them with the blowing which has come into the and in 2014 days of this year. and it gives extra protections for was of lowers. but it's certainly something that has to be down to us. and it has to be dealt with in every go ferment level on so many of these big national issues, social issues like this, we see very clear battle lines being drawn. are you getting any support from,

let's say, the trade union movement, or social activist, or the l g b t q, community? who can you count on as your natural allies in this fight? well, funny enough, john, because i am quite new to this. i'm on the batch of working 90 committee, and i have engaged with one of the largest union dinner and, and i had in the initial meeting wasted with the deaf you see a couple of weeks ago. and he very kindly invited me in this week. so i'm ho, things, stuff, and they will become an ally of ours and that we can push true something that's well suits employers and employees. because we have to realize john, that is we just negotiate or advocate on behalf of employees. we've lost um really we've lost a lot of hope because we have to show the employer that by having a robust anti bullying legislation, policy and policies and procedures,

it protects the actual admin, sorry, themselves as well as the employee. so we just have to make sure that they're aware that it's not that we shouldn't, we do want to help them, but we also want to protect the employee and keep them safe in their work place. right. and what about support on a more broad scale? are you getting any support from the european union, the european commission, the european court of human rights? is there any measurable market support coming from europe as you, as you take this on, is not yet john. now that is something that i am working with the irish human rights and equality commission. and i had a recent success in regards to a company that was violating human rights on ice. and we stood our ground and, and thank god they have them being forced to introduce an ethics on human rights policy. and that is

a real success because to individuals. and it came to me and it provided that personal statements. and um i, i brought it to a government policy and the government policy makers, they didn't want to know the health and safety car seat. they didn't want to know. um and i, i basically exited on linkedin and lo and behold, thank god that company now as the introduce their a, a call and see and their human rights policy. good. and tell us a little bit about the politics of, of all this is this part is an issue in ireland, a political issue, or are you getting support or even opposition across the political spectrum? well, it's, it's funny. you should say that john, because we have a situation where we have a coalition. so we have a number of policies that form governments. it's very difficult to pin and a govern government official down or minister down. mm hm. we find that the

department of enterprise trading and telling me to, although they did matrices and they are still considering whether to go forth with the proposal we have, we have them provide it to them. we have. and because i think you might know that ireland is it'd be goss and northern ireland as well, which is 6 counties. now my recently mess with naomi long who is the leader of the alliance party in up in northern ireland and also their hon. um, we go to the top to perception of their and it looks like that they will hopefully in the, in the coming months and take this situation seriously. so if, if, if it looks like no, norland will bring in upon an anti bullying policy because they, they, their system is slightly different to ours. we can't bring it all in together. i

mean, what would really stop at our and doing the same thing and we, we, you know, we could just be amazing. we, we, we could, um, our engineers and national partners could, you know, see that our little island, the island of, nor now and i brought in and not the building policy to protect workers and employers am alike. and to form a form at a very strong policy and procedure and remedy for workplace bullying. we are speaking with whistleblower and activist, jennifer foster about bullying. we're going to take a short break and come right back and talk with jenny about her own story. and with of long stay with us. 2 2 the

take a fresh look around his life kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by tell us to do vision with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented as 1st? can you see through their illusion going underground can the at the end of the 18th century,

great britain began to conquer and colonize australia. from the very beginning of the british penetration to the continent, natives were subjected to severe violence and deliberate, extra patient. according to modern historians, in the 1st 140 years, there were at least 270 massacres of local b. both any resistance to the british was answered with double cruelty. hundreds of natives were killed for the murder of one settler. indigenous australians were not considered complete people. no wild beast of the forest was ever hunted down with such unsparing perseverance has they are men, women and children are shot when ever they can be met with squatter, henry myrick wrote in a letter to his family in england, in $1846.00 plus strategy as bad as these rightly described as blood soaked in races. if at the beginning of colonization, there were one and a half 1000000 indigenous people living on the continent. then by the beginning of

the 20th century, their number had degrees still 100000 people. despite the indisputable historical facts, the problem of full recognition of the crimes of white australians against aborigines has not been resolved so far. the best thing to do, so that's the series doing it for you and you have them by see the display of this other if i did stop to believe new way needs. yeah. the cost, if you're saying you missed us and to get to see the kids, those, and what do school minutes, a village doesn't notice. we are gambling with the future of all mankind and we're,

we're risking it for not the the welcome back to the whistle. blowers. i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with anti bullying activist whistleblower and human rights advocate. jennifer foster. jenny, thanks again for being with us. oh it's, it's a, it's a pleasure. it's a pleasure, don. john q. thank you jenny. we've been talking about the psychology behind bullying and i'd like to know about your own story. what got you involved in working against bullying? how did this all begin for you? a lot of is a personal experience. i hodge. am i nice? is bullying in my work? place i worked in hospitality and uh it was a case to us i raise on behalf of others of his working and results. my insured at the time. and i raised at 3 and grievances events and bullying at the

time because it was, i actually didn't realize that one was quite serious and it was in fact mister per appropriation of government funds. and i quickly realized i was in an, you know, very hoarse or so therefore i engaged and as i said earlier, engaged a lot of government departments. i engage. i mean, when i closed, because i realized that not only was all in danger, but the people that i had named in, in, in the grievances were also in danger. so that's really the walk of me involved. you written about coming into contact with bullied people who had attempted suicide or who had the suicidal ideation. how did you use those experiences to transition into activism? a slice of ice, i realize very quickly, haven't started the badger working lives throughout. may i see that on my profile i was kind of get and, and you know, the bigger and bigger island people were contacting me personally. i just did not

feel equipped for us. so i engaged in charge the call suicide or survive. and they gave me some at are they gave me a try, a training, which is called a supports or training course in order for me to be able to carry you safely. listening service for somebody who feels bullied, i'm sorry, suicidal may be bullied into work place. um, so yeah, i mean i have engaged with quite a number on them of people that have um, either attempted suicide or have had suicidal ideation. and this is not a nice place to be for them. and for me to try and guide them was very frightening . bus and i have had a lot of success and i'm delighted for that. they do feel protected by me. a lot of people and feel protected by me because i do feel protective of them in general, the worker i feel very protective of them. thank goodness,

tell us about the legislation that you worked on and pushed through the lot through into law in the republic of ireland. yeah. and there we haven't actually, we have just m proposed like just to it's not even that just relation at this stage . okay. proposals to the department of enterprise trade unemployment. so we are hoping john, dash r administers will see the merits of this were really positive and i haven't received an a, an answer from the minister. i think he is thinking very carefully because the climate is just right now. i think people have had enough on our commission. we have 2 members of the defense forces who are actually the women of honor who have been bullied into around wise and uh and has uh they work separately to us but the but their advocates for the bass are working on the roku, messy, and the stuff has uh they recently mess are from is to rich to our,

to shop and our toner. so which is the deputy prime minister. and we and hopefully there will be a steps tray inquiry. so i think people have just had enough jobs and it is time for us to protect people in their work, places against bullying. are there any laws in europe or elsewhere that might serve as a, as a template, let's say for awhile into account. that's the problem. and this is exactly where we are asked. it was one of the questions or our minister asked is, do we have a task placed suite and they're looking to bring in some sort of them as like a logical and safety legislation. i haven't been able to get a guess and guesses at the moment, but they are looking to do it sometime this year. so that would be, i'd say that it would probably be fairly on the same lines, but we're looking for. and we're, we're basically looking for

a situation where a bully person does not have to go through a tribunal and then a separate car case, the guess remedy. because at the moment that is the case. and if you don't, when in the course, it can cost you very dearly. so, and a lot of people by da stage there, so psychologically bullied and answering their so. so i thought it's pretty damaged that it's almost impossible for the person to face a very stressful core case, right? jenny? where should people go? what should they do if they're being bullied? what's the standard procedure and how can our viewers learn more about the work that you do? a rice. well we, i, we, i, in fact we have a long list and dr. cost a catherine phillips, who is from canada. we have stats as myself and to katherine are the co founders of the hash tag, bullied to movement. and um, we have

a website which we will explain all the terminology of, of bullying. so a to and for instance, when you're in a situation where you're bullied, you don't quite understand this. and sometimes it takes so time for you to actually realize you're being bullied. and so we have an a brochure. and all the websites we have and definitions of all the different aspects of bullying. and that's at web slides is at w, w, w dot balise to movement dot com. and there will be, it says it's really for information only. we don't have a supporters group with us. mm hm. but i am also on linkedin under jennifer foster at better working lives, rural, and where i can help. i do have an icon us and see people damaged in their workplace. if i can help i'm, we have a lot of amazing culture and contributors in our them themselves. and i've some

amazing people. i rely on day and day. i don't work for local government agencies. i have an amazing person called frank. i'm like to have some i wouldn't have gotten this far as so we've got people that's and day and days and help me. they protect me as well because you've been mentioned detriment that sometimes i do get myself into help or because i am very passionate about this subject and i go back down and i do advertise and ministers, etc. respectfully. i would hope that i would hope they would fail because i do raise the issue and i won't stop raising the issue until legislation goes into wireless to protect people that are harmed in their work places. and finally, jenny, what advice would you give young people or even children, if they are being bullied, where can they turn?

the 1st thing you do is you're being bullied as you tell somebody that you trust and you tell them straight away before it gets worse. and also, especially for children, it's very important to tell a trusted adults. and this is happening because sometimes you build it up so much in your hands that you, you are so fearful because there are people there to help. if you are an adult in a workplace, i would advise you before you actually raise it to your hate, your department that you take what it's called, concert and contemporaneous notes, which is after the issue, you take notes, you make sure they do have dates, times situation so that if you do go to a job that you have a full list of all the situations that you know have happened, but then you have proof of happened on any emails or anything else that you can, you can provide. it's a difficult one, john. i'll be very honest with you sometimes. you know,

you would think it's easier to walk away then go through the rigors of stage or departments which sometimes unfortunately, they are not working for the employee. in some cases they are working for the employer. and um i, i sometimes feel that it is and really difficult decision to me. mm. document document document. i would like absolutely documented everything. absolutely everything you can never go wrong. i want to thank our guest, jennifer foster for joining us in for the important work that she's doing. and i'd like to thank our viewers for tuning and bullying is never fun. never. it's a cool and terrible thing to do to someone. if you are being bullied, no, that it is not your fault. no one deserves to be bullied. ever. the brilliant actress, octavia butler once said, not everyone has been a bully for the victim of, for everyone has seen bullying and seeing it has responded to it by joining in or

by objecting by laughing or by keeping silence by feeling disgusted or feeling interested when you see bullying, do the right thing and you know what the right thing is. i'm john to reaku. thank you for watching the whistle blowers until next time. 2 the take a fresh look around his life kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented as 1st?

can you see through their illusion going underground? can the the the hi,

i'm accepted and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please do the have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, it's not, we don't want to watch it because it might just change the williams. thanks. the says is i'm talking about depend on what i'm the so i'm not fixing that amount of money. was avoid the mistake dental to share was i've already, if you need another, she had little but i want to take the policy and follow crumbs on to look really i

did was i as one can easily get out there and know that you might know the import us when you might need to allow for those that to the, to disability. i think you're working off of the on may off last the on the would you put it all the restaurant, but again, it should be in it shoots. i have come through and enough for us to do that, but just showing you might remember that you know, when you got the purple, i ask you some history on for me to also define it. back on my list. i pretty sort of dispatch, i mean, all right, the good news and world come up between that. i mean a lot the elastic. who's a done with being picked up? do you have an advisor on the phone? what was your shifts? yes. that when you listed in money, don't songs, you know, mit. thank you. m. when you're in the room, you will get onto to ship tesla samples. you pull up on

the the, we love a person because we have done him good. and we have here, and we have done him home as were optic out, or we have nothing to reproach ourselves with private input and concludes the russia africa summit in st. petersburg and says that russia has always had good relations with the continent dating back to sylvia time. while western nations down play the importance of the events, those attending look forward to a repeat and think russia for the respect that shows in africa. i think we need a more less yeah, i'll suddenly to this is so some is this some it is marked by the spirit of.