itself on the long piece here is now in the midst of a blog in possibly quite protracted conflict. what's left here is how long it may take until please return the call to discuss that i'm now enjoying buying dinner back. and european problem is number representing alternative for germany. mr. mac is great to talk to thank you very much for being available. my pleasure and good afternoon to you. now let me start with a personal question because alternative for germany really in russia is also in for trade as this party off. i don't know how to put it diplomatically, somewhat crude crude and not particularly enlightened walters. and yet uh uh, judging from your condemning background, you have an advanced degree in law, utah. 9 as an ox for them, they london school of economics. you wrote the book on emmanuel, conned with such harass cooler lee and intellectual background. why did you off for this particular part in well, let me make 2 points 1st. it's greg. yes,

i did study. so small i philosophy and politics at at oxford university and i've written books on a manual, cabs, legal reasoning, and the european court of justice, calling the books and the adults are badly political. now, there is a common misconception that if you will receive the d some days vacation, you'll see when they turn into a good politically correct, liberal, internationalist and perfectionist. that is not by you. i think the purpose of education is to make you critical, including self critical and enlightened. and it should enable you to question received wisdoms as president opinions. and that's what i've been doing all day long at now to my 2nd point, the a f d, a is

a young party. and what you've tried to put spa, well, possibly diplomatically, as i think natural seems to bear in mind, we are young party, which means we have lots of edits of politicians. it is correct to say that some of my colleagues are perhaps not always chosen. the most last and due to a magic way of putting it, however, it matches of politics. you also sometimes have to be political to express, i'm talking about tubes. and then secondly, you can imagine we all talk to you that is questioning practically every aspect of the political consensus, a west germany, in particular sense no more. there is a relentless con, pay be waged against us by the late fee. okay. finance. the, the, the, just as that was kind of late or really late,

let's pull back down to the campaign against russia as president, 24 by the same media in germany. speaking about the matters of politics. i know that in the, in europe and problem and who are a member of the identity and democracy group as well as a participant of the conference on the future of your how do you see the relationship between identity and democracy and do they have any place in the future, if you're as well as to questions, really you're asking yeah, the relationship is a curse. well, we know that a few democratic countries that uh, they don't have a strong sense of identity. usually that's a sense of national identity, otherwise, exception switch, southern disability. so i'll put, although you can say they have a sense of national identity based on a particular political emancipation struggle against interior powers of all of them . so it's, as we said,

it has an identity which is multinational and the same to some extent. besides about the united states and europe, democracy has generally involved in the case in the, in the context of nation states. now to the 2nd part of your question, whether the opposite is fairly clear, both democracy and um, uh, identity, especially national identity in western europe and the french mrs fund, the president of the european commission, has announced that she wants to bring the homes of millions of non european people to europe in the next 10 to 15 years in my you, national identity cannot survive such a massive influx of people that have no causal rooms in europe. and if i may a serge point i,

i had on the calculations on that roughly as present was the, germany's population is partly for any large and if present trends of immigration continue even that to diminish level. and this is all in both rate remains as low as it stays. germany will cease to be ever jar t john in the country by something like 2075. and mr. black can i? uh so he is here for a 2nd because i'm sure you know what the people on the other side of the political spectrum would say, and they would see your comments as xena for big. but having read with you have a sad about migration, i think you're making more of a sudden social and institutional argument that it takes, you know, a certain percentage of people, a lot of in society are rooted in its culture. what it is in its ways of lives to preserve that way of life and to develop it and to move it forward. why do you

think and i mean, the field of study socio and you're still well developed across europe. i mean, there is a department of fulfillment in any major university. why is it not taken as a practical consideration? why is it always discussed within the framework of publicity or skin color? where's, you know, traditions they do have certain and very practical value for ensuring stable and comfortable lives by you one by point very clearly i need to elaborate on these. i think is, society can be stabilized by very great rapid changes. we also have this view of immigration. now why is this further? these said this simple view which was calling place and you're up until about 30 years ago. nowadays. ostracized some kind of i'll try then to those incentive, it would be cute view that would be helpful. this eh. ringback seems to be quite a yeah,

because the kind of liberal agenda we see the west now is not community reason based, but it's a kind of quays i really just creed. and that file to crowd out. and all sorts of realistic, practical objections to validation, all creating a kind of city on the hill on of okay, can i ask you about one other thing that has much more direct relevance to where i am in russia and where my relatives are in the ukraine i'm talking about the war in europe, and i think here again, another very important to you were put in tradition was it's not broken down. totally rejected. and i'm talking about this notion on the european a balance of power or balance of security because you're of, as we all know how it has had many wars. but one of the resolves on that war is a 2nd. diplomatic and international relations culture that is rooted

in the balance of interest and about a balance of power and for a long time it was respected in the you know, one could argue that the long piece that i mentioned in the beginning was also a result of that, but uh, this tradition seems to be fully rejected in the case of ukraine because no russia, security interest even taking into consideration and haven't been taken for quite some time. and secondly, the europeans have, when we put all their, you know, secure disabilities in the american vasquez. why would it happen to you or of that has been tried and tested by war so many for so for such a long time. well, the sad fact is that the launch uh that the last great european war is now what he's a nearly a was, it happened a few years ago. my mother experienced states as a child. and the last thing she was that old ones is a nano more

n touch and ration for the responses perpetual visit that'd be provided. but most europeans dom i've got to go now and we've seen significant changes in the educational system where history awesome sauce in the post era, so much as football. i think that is one reason. secondly, i think you are slightly misrepresenting the tradition of realism that you are, cuz you're thinking, i agree, it's a very important tradition, but because you're dominated intellectually for several centuries, practically, or the traditions of liberal international relations also originate in europe. so if you take a manual tent, he was surprised to introduce the national, the lead goes nations. this is the whole idea regarding tradition to european

a international relations c k. so the religious tradition is why important, why last are the right it's the for gotten. i think the reason is part of the that you're not is a much diminished continent. the europeans don't need any way and you don't go and you've got a positional input turns. well, some people do is they want to be at least the last. the great is models on the well in the world, and i think that's part of what is made to bait in europe and it started the most amazing job as well as you know, um um studying psychology on the side. i have a great interest in depth psychology of carl young and that he has actually explored the trends in the collective unconscious quite extensively. he wrote a lot about the knots as an arm and then as a, as a suppression. all file we use to we are and you know, when uh,

when i see these people that you are also referring to only concerns with the future. only concerns with the illusions north, as being informed by the past, but out on history isn't it? i know it comes across as a form of south only nation that form of self and the holy nation. we know it from psychology, always produces hatred, then not just hatred of somebody else, but it's usually also self hatred that down it is projected on to other nations. do you think it has anything to do with the current demonization of rush or all perhaps other countries like china, where you run or is slightly made. oh cool. so what do i say in the cold? but there was, there is that event, a free to is need sure, it is a characterization of certain relations next somebody, some of the times i myself made the point that impotence maybe at the source of

age diminished position. ha, i think in the case of russia, there's another element. russia is labeled understood in western europe. the final point is that the west, germany, in particular, has been integrated into western structures for 7075 years. now, whether it reads a very great amount of product. uh and uh, you to gratian into western systems or thinking through education in to get his job in the out of town from west germany, buddies job. and he, i think there is a much greater skepticism towards the receive western liberal directive. so it's costly, an east west to buy the europe because at the present dimension is complicated then from russia's positions,

not necessarily the favorable way. because then you 30 years ago, um 35 years ago the soviet union dominated eastern europe. so i think the president is set a set of concerns in eastern europe is security, good sense? okay, well, mr. back we have to take a very short break right now for the sake of our editorial security, but he will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. the or the

what are you crazy? yes. or tripler. i lost lots of, of my friends. but it was broken save anyone. i did nothing that the silence was in 2013 which really it in my way. and it makes me thoughtful gains to willy waiting for. i need to have the time happy that trying to find he's really good to. you can go to sleep. mom, i become my new friend,

the one who's loved going to die or because he is always stay alive. say next to me, the if i'm not crazy enough, i'm not going to make it the welcome back to wells appliances with the are back. you are a problem in member representing alternative for germany and mr. brand. before they break, we discussed the, you know, this multi faceted and very complicated attitude that the some germans have towards russia. and i've heard you say in one of the other interviews that many of your colleagues at the european permanent that's filled with hatred,

not only for russian, but for the kind of conservative traditionalism that russia represents. do you think these people who are filled with hatred, do they even understand the what the russia tries to revolve in the world? what it tries to base it's and identity on what you have to be an ideal part of it . you have about one on one and a half minutes. so i often have to be how to use short time, traditional conservatism with sasha, sorta. i think the factors that play russia, i think, such as basic issue such as the diesel standard of living, ask you a very important the government has to be very concerned about a security, a basic comforts to the population. that's one aspect and the other i a point is in your book,

i think historically education has suffered. so for many europeans they, i tend to reject ebc um class to something like 1960 . so the, his history starts to the sexual and cultural revolution of the 1950s, and then we checked anything that went on before. so i think that is part of the most about decision makers in europe now operate in a strictly a historical manner. they sometimes stole historical parallels, but they are very involved that you mentioned the russians government, the focus on the standards of living and your pin, uh, positions uh on the country, often talk about and spit, aspirational and inspirational values, but ensuring basic safety, ensuring basic um services is not just the value insincere,

2 of the government and that maybe it's just my russian bars, but i wonder is part of the problem here is indeed think of the conflict between governmental judges and governmental aspirations. and the, i have the total rejection of the europeans of the former, because a, if we analyze the recent decisions, including the binding of all trades with russia, it looked like the living standards of human beings, citizens, a non deforest bray, or it's in the caching on the i think for the last, for the 5, yes, living standards for at least possible relation, most of your have not improved this as simple as that. now they are declining as a result of the inflation, which is at least partly resolved to be co dialogue. dogs class the that is a new grade and that kind of inspirational and s rational value catalog. that all politicians are constantly invoking these

ideas. they fall removed from the concern as those most people. so yes, in that respect. yeah, absolutely right. most european governments saying that people are possibly that's also what ends up at the core of the ukrainian crisis. because i think the government, the refresher for years have been stating that they have a duty to protect back interest, secure and interest. it's not just an aspiration of value, it's something that we have to act upon. we have our military for that besides reason, but all we heard in response was this some exploration of value. so some of you are being politicians on the ukrainians. now i wonder if this call, if this dilemma between no heart disease and aspirational valleys, if it could have been resolved without an arm, possibly given your understanding what's been happening in your brain not have from february of last year, but the, a couple of decades prior to that,

i think you've given me a lot of times arise and that makes altering the question easier. because i think that be that a little i be added to the rush. i the immediately, immediately post roll. okay, so you got towards the west of your country is taken as paid. remarkably generous. if your countries have treated java the as well as russia has in the last 33 to 34 years. russia agreed to read if occasion, without a body practically nbc, when we touched the right, i just want to say, this is the way russia treated just germany of this is a historic tradition of resolving conflict for us. right? that was the same case with napoleonic wars, the russian welcoming friends back into the family of european countries, not taking any contribution. and it's a consistent then,

philosophical approach that the russian state has taken over a century is not just the answer. i gave you the one example that i do about best. so what that was, if you want me to put the the board general tubs, there was a very, a distinct approach to see, condemns relations with west west of europe. and that's the law of lee. oh, not for the re boss. so then was that a little that much i bought a me ton. so is your cost at the base of the concessions and your cost k baycove that shows that will kind of say because, well then at some stage you, they change your approach. i think what we have to realize is that you're to get the waves and driven off by the united states, people that are closer to russia in russia except is a great deal to beach, is really expensive. so the earliest thoughts and the american sizes you,

they could just march about forward and that does surprise, that is my side doesn't degree. now the european. so i think i'll just be surprised about it because i see have a more rational attitude. they, we go the board as a kind of a tug, a deal appeal, so often distracted by the own idea of this think well, um, i guess it's easy to be an ideal list when the time is a good and i, i've heard many experts say that the e u us partnership was always on the american terms, but at least you have the benefit of the for and direct investments and relatively fair trade. but it's no longer the case. i think the terms of your partnership changing very rapidly and you're bound to give much more and receive much, much less there. i mean, the american policy towards your, of a is pretty hawkish or if not predatory, at this point of time,

given the industrial capacities at that are being transferred to the united states . now, how long do you think it will take until be european voters? they'll be you are a painful additions, but then your team voters will fail the pinch and we'll demand something, something different from that leaders. i was chosen very hoss, was whole kitchen credit dread. i like to defend the united states and this would god. yeah, just being rational from the point of view, i think is the european reaction. that's very nice effects. what it is to follow on to the europeans primarily allowed themselves to be ported. that's a position the united states is just doing mostly in the interest to be fat. but you are right. in another respect, i think the off the wall during the cold war, the united states required compliance in military and foreign policy matches. but they ton guarantee

a highly the standards that's come to an end. the alliance with the united states, western integration is becoming increasingly expensive for your many europeans as yet to minority wake. indeed, twitch, best men, how the politicians also there is a die called to be how long it will take. i cannot tell you, by the way, can i ask her? this is something that is absolutely puzzling to many of us uh, in uh, russian, particularly those who live in saint petersburg every to the city with huge german heritage, china, very strong cultural ties with germany. and this is also a city where i'm many of the gas projects that are originated, for example, the north stream pipelines were built uh from the, from that side of the bolted cost and given all the explosions and the recent statements, for example, from uh, how, how we uh, prime minister uh oregon. uh saying that she doesn't exclude it as

a possible repeat of such incidents. i just wonder, do you think you do your pains with amber, one to know what actually happened to enter that own energy infrastructure on the i mean, i understand their feel refresher, but on the fearful that something like that could happen in europe at this day. and age the clear questions i can give you. yeah, i'll says the governments don't want to know the people for the most part had a suspicion. what happens? uh. and the last day they couldn't care less or what the press is climate which makes it very difficult to call a spade a spade because our government has systematically a v a serious investigation. awful. okay. dollars. the attacks that tended ages, they do not wish it. they don't, well, they know,

they don't wish it to be widely that i know i hear part of that, but the russia has experience a number of terrorist attacks by ukrainian militants yesterday. and i think it's pretty clear that if the waterville come, ever closer to russia, russia will respond. do you think people in europe understand that? uh, you know, the, the time for illusions is over the, it's, there is a real war on the ground in russia, in ukraine. and if it continues, it may come to europe as well. no, they don't understand that probably speaking. i think some people, as i'm kind of a mobile, i'm office the but the last great what happened so long ago that most people think this better can somehow be localized if they were fully aware the full may escalate. and because the interesting paradox, let's assume the waste is right,

and they can really push russia back. uh, get your grade to push my shot back. for would you be so can you, can you spell out the, the, me, you, yes, i'm just trying to sort of summarize what some people i think you missed. the grades actually said that because russia isn't sending it's whole. i mean, they may push it back. i don't think that burst your kids have adequate conception . they did these circumstances. a great power or life about shots, well respond with any means edits, disposal, i'd like to be. i'd like to leave it as an id. tell them it is that it's clear. once, i mean, i guess the best, your p as our web is absolutely not. and so on the united states or so. so we'll china, i mean, it's a, it's a, you know, international or politics. one,

a one. i mean, it's the, the basic uh thing that the people study in international affairs plus. now can i ask you? and the last, the very last question because you don't sound very uh, optimistic but uh, what's your best hold for the next couple of years as far as russia, europe and the whole world is concerned. i guess you're right. i know by disposition, an optimist, and the last decade is generally to me, right. but obviously we'll have to know what we can also said that even at the end, tomorrow we should call to these by law street. so i think we have to reach an understanding in the ukraine. this whole has to be brought to it and i can give you an easy solution. all this might be, but what i don't know is that this is a grave danger to you. and he's already reckoning our economy is no longer, it's not doing any one any good,

certainly not to your so we have to do what we can to anybody. mr. back has been great pleasure talking to thank you very much for your time. but thank you and i couldn't agree more with the video. nice foot section very much. thank you. thank you for watching hope to hear again. well the part the

the scenes bear with drones hit the heart of rushes financial district in the out hours of sunday morning. and most of the russian ministry of defense saying ukraine is behind the time the roles of the french embassy burned in the chair, thousands reilly in support of the new military leadership following the cool, when the west african nations, while a block of countries threatens military intervention, if the ousted president isn't reinstated in one weeks, the circle of friendship as leaders hailed the success of the russia africa summit . the joint declaration signed of heralds a new era of the one towards the.