the, the, [000:00:00;00] the time action redundancy and welcome back to going underground will go single around the world for dubai. in the u. a, at least one black sea green initiative ship was counting explosives, perhaps from the u. k. u. s. c, u billions of dollars in homes being sent to fight brush or through ukraine. the black sea green initiative is dead for now terminated by moscow with questions off that last week. for us, your advocate summit in st. petersburg included why only 3 percent of the black sea green initiative exports in any case found their way to poor countries. and why

would they do a belligerent spain holland? it's only britain, the novice grabbing grain and what are the real mechanisms of play when it comes to the neo liberal global food system? well, this is the un secretary general and nature of nation lead is so silent on us. ok, a patient of syria's wheat fields claim the black sea green initiative was crucial to saving the poor of africa and rather mentors the founder and executive director of the oakland institute, which is just reported when i am f. will bank collusion in the coughing up of ukraine's global food supply system? she's previously testified before, but the us congress and the u. n. g joins me now from nairobi. can you thank you so much for coming on. i mean, there wasn't much coverage of the advert. good rushes i meant to last week. so perhaps it was easier to understand the nature of nations from big corporate media that the black sea green initiative killed by bruton is going to stop africa. why is that? why is your policy director claiming its deceitful into the u. n. has become

a business broke over agribusiness corporations in violation of its values as regards this black sea green initiative. well, 1st of all, thank you for having me. so if you were listening to the hype in the western media, one would think that the black sea green initiative is really to prevent famines and to soften global foot crisis by enabling experts of fluid from ukraine to developing countries, food, and secure countries, especially in the africa, this tooth is that the united nation state is itself point out that less than 3 percent of the commodities with commodities export from your pre and have actually gone to the food and secure countries. most of the exports are headed to the european union. spain is the largest recipient and the 2nd is china. so this has nothing to do with feeding the floor and showing food security or preventing

famines. this is really about ensuring that the profits of those who control land in ukraine annual controlling these food explodes continue to solar. well, what he's saying, all the journalists, cnn, bbc, all the usual suspect they're idiots. i mean, they're literally being saying, it's this initiative to help the board of africa. well, the question is really the figures from the united nations, this is not about they would against all was this is really about the united nation speakers, which are clearly demonstrating that as off just last week or so only 3 percent of the suited commodities exported from ukraine under this initiative have gone to low income countries. so i don't know if the general disturbing idiotic just been callous and being lazy to at best to have perhaps. now. uh, how do you characterize the ukraine's farmland and how the food industry works in ukraine? because the, your recent report seems as a, just over many years,

really the i m. f and world bank to in the institutions, along with profit tearing big companies, have carved the whole of your bread box basket up, especially after the cool in 2014, when a parent liza lensky was elected in a way to say, look, we're going to stop privatization the privatization is, is the process now as well. that's a very important point that he just made. most of the word does not realize that under the foreign debt, ukraine has gone to see the structural adjustment programs that have been dictated by the west and financial institutions. such as a, b, r, d through europe and back for reconstruction development needing to privatization and liberalization. and one of the big changes that have been implemented much against the will of the ukraine and people focus of academic, civil society. and farmers is the land reform know which was implemented in 2020,

which creates a land back, basically allows the sales agricultural allat. so a new report that you referred to water and test is really about the takeover of the you paid in agricultural land. and it exposed at the producers were exporting commodities from ukraine. today. i'm actually a large agribusinesses visa, only got word associated with european and not the american financial institutions, in particular, the european back for reconstruction and development as well as the word back. yeah, but i mean, van god, b and b, goldman sachs noise over in wealth fund. the i'm sure they will deny any wrong doing as they're activated by the id and, and will bank their, their unit to feed the world as they presented. well, when you look, when you look at our research,

it's actually demonstrates that nearly 20 percent of your grants arable land. we're talking about $99000000.00 heck, days of land after they controlled about all the gods and the west and financial interest. these up, the dominantly north american and european and these are the people who are not controlling the line. the largest land holder is the only gods are getting financial loans from best and financial in tris, how you're talking about us pension funds. you're talking about foundation endowments, being invested in the sun investing, and advocates for land and ukraine through private equity funds. so just be etc. okay, it's to which the world bank and say, look, we gave $5540000.00. just about small farm is in ukraine. i know that's the, that's the price of a sort of house in central london. maybe. but they did give money to small farmers and ukraine when you look at the kind of loan instead of being made. but more important, the policies that have been generated. so you already had

a district and ukraine, which has gone through the structural adjustment loans, which has led to the privatization which has led to further liberalization. and now we do plan being more on the debt as the reconstruction starts, whenever the war ends before the liberalization. so it will be the word back, it will be the i a see the probably with lending off the world bank. it will be dictating policies which will be further liberalize is liberalizing different sectors, especially the agricultural sector. what we don't recognize that why did talking about food security. i'm, it's russian invasion of supreme it is not really about food security of the rest of the world because exports even know that i'd be allowed from you to train that have to do with profit during the large agribusinesses which are really in the control of north america and europe in financial interest. of course,

crystelina georgie ever, they had a v i m f. we took over from christine the god, who was found guilty of negligence in france and didn't have to serve a year sentence. how do you handle sentence? she says, the priority of the i m f will be to help minimize the risk of crisis and build a stronger building of stronger economies across the globe. the globe best for the world bank age. a bank of the form of mascot seo said to create a world free from poverty on a livable planet. how does that square wave of you've just said about the i m f and world bank the to washington base institutions? well, what's happening right now is that you have further consolidation of man, which is controlled by audi gods, which is controlled by western financial interest loans. the support is not going through the small farmers in ukraine and i'm, it says economic distress. we will see more and more consolidation as these farmers are not being supported. we have to understand that approaches that happened

against the 2020 land reform. and the law was implemented. i'm at school with when people could not produce the civil society, the academics, the farm was in ukraine, a basically demanding and calling for the different advocates for the model which instead of for the consolidation of land, but on the godson lodge. agribusinesses is really about creating an agricultural policy which in book, in favor of the small farmers in new print. now that is not in the interest of the i a mass of the world bank or the i of see it is really about supporting private equity funds such as and c h in the united states where uh, foundations. and as i said before, university in the endowments investing in so there's basically a circus going on last week for you and food system, some and sponsored by nestle, rockefeller bear bill gates will the can on the floor and we think they probably did they discuss with they have discussed the kinds of issues raised in the your report or from a different angle. well,

i think we have to see who was at the conference. as you say it is, there it is nestle, they're not in the business of statesmanship. they're not in the business of solving was kinda been the business of increasing the profits they pay and the auto real estate shareholders and increasing the profits. and this is why it's important to understand when we talk about food crisis, because of the invasion of fuel brain who's really benefit to the food prices went up because of the speculation of the green markets. and even among the, you know, much the war, the kind of exports we have seen from ukraine a pretty high. so it's a mit, it's a lie which has been taught to do the work. as those who are in the business of active business continue to get rich at the expense of the poor. this is a double whammy for the ukranian farmers while they are fighting for they fall and then when they are fighting for the land. the land has been stolen away and taken

away by possible all the gods and rest and financial interests. many of said the landscape is a puppet of all the gods and western capital with the fact that he reinstated the structural adjustment privatization, austerity against the opposition, which it goes now is banned in in ukraine elections or may well be banned for next year. i mean, is this evidence that zelinski is a puppet, that he has re introduced the structural adjustment? or is it that, you know, culturally the way they persuade the countries to about you? integration is, look, you need to reform your processes and this is the way forward and then you'll be all happy. like with the newer, i think it's very important to look at the history of the institution such as a low band and the i m. s. there's nothing global about them. the state of the claim is due and paul at the very often depaul policies work against the poor and they really didn't come about ending the poor and not ending the apology. you look

at the continent of africa, which went to a structural adjustment program. so you look at asian and latin american countries . structure adjustment programs has been about decimating the livelihoods of the poor decimating social services when both string, the interest of the corporations. this is what the liberalization agenda looks like . so i think we have to learn from history and see what the check a cost of these financial institutions has been. so they are in the business of carving of countries like estimating livelihoods and creating for the fall ships for the poor. in case of food green, we have seen already what the structure and adjustment programs are doing. the increasing fall with the, the taking of his social services. so you're going to see more liberalization, more privatization, which is not going to work in the favor of people. it is really about working in the favor of corporations. and as wisdom corporations control more and more of

agricultural land agribusinesses, we know what these policies are about. i mean, clearly it's uh, the one uh, rush through ukraine is a place to make masses of money for companies. but the, the food money system dimension of this doesn't seem to really be talked about. so in part, ukraine is a fight for these big agribusiness companies as well. i mean, is it corruption the way it actually is being, as part of the war? what ukraine is called, the bred boss, get a few or so who controls the agricultural land and ukraine uh does become a major player in the food markets. this again is no different from the kind of land rush and the land grabs. we have seen across the world, especially since 2008, 2009. i'm. it's the high foot price crisis. i'm, it's the financial crisis. so in terms of ukraine, as we see, the line being consolidated and controlled by ukrainian only got what do they

indebted to west and financial institutions? we see the wisdom actors coming into the play in terms of controlling agriculture. and then we see the 2020 land reform act kicking to play and creating gland bands. we advocates for land is available for sale with the city, no support for the small farmers and ukraine. we seek nomic distress going. we know how things will play out. small farmers will be driven out. and you will see consolidation of that. we've seen this happen in the united states of america. we have seen this around the was a small pharmacy to a crucial for food security of countries are being driven away. and the culture of agriculture is lost. and this is really about who controls the food supply and to control is agriculture, land to make money. and not defeat the what i know out of it's a lot of stuff you the more from the founder and executive director of the oakland institute after this break

the, the, the kind of liberal agenda we see the west now is not really we based, but it's a kind of ways i really just create an outside to crowd of all sorts of real estate practical objections to validation of creating a kind of city on the hill on the

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with enron them and tell founder and executive director of the oakland institute on board chair of ben and jerry's underwater. we were talking about this continuing structural adjustment, ideological basis of life being pushed from the united states. i thought there was a pause in it after the global financial, or as the chinese cool at west end economic crisis. was it suddenly come back again on the agenda, the idea of privatization to defacto help, a few oligarchs in the united states anyway, as well. i think in terms of capitalism and in terms of both string, the profit off of the rich, that model has never gone away. it has showed up in different ways where they to us to economic globalization. whether we have seen it through structural adjustment programs, which was about increasing the profits of corporations, even if it causes cb

a hardship to the majority of the people we have seen into the world bank policies of doing business rankings, which was about ranking countries. and what they like to do business with uh, you know, a country which was implementing the labor laws, environmental regulations would get a bit of bad business ranking. whereas a country that was opening itself and offering all kind of incentives, depart, patients to get a good ranking. so if, if you look at the history, this has simply a place for increasing the profits of corporations. and after structural adjustment programs, we started doing business rankings. after doing business rankings were ended, navea seeing be ready, business project of the world bank. so to out the, these policies and programs and projects be put in place by wisdom. capital is really to support wisdom corporations and foreign corporations, even at the lights and livelihoods of to put in developing countries. people can read that report on the bizarre ranking system,

one which country to do business on your uh website. but uh for those that i thought they were going to make a load of cash out of the great initiative booting this thing, versus just gonna send the grain separately. the outside of their, their systems will, can be done. then to destroy the i, m, f, and world bank because the for you is a groups like yours and, and institutions and, and g o's that are not allied to the military. industrial complex of said they all guilty of starving millions, hundreds of millions of men, women, and children. what can be done, there doesn't seem to be any democratic accountability available. this is us an excellent questions for almost 2025 years ago. there was a very popular call from the developing world, especially from africa, say 50 is in the international monetary fund, world bank, which will create it at the end of the 2nd world war. us still rebuilding walked on economies of the west. there's nothing global about them. you have

a method. the head comes from europe. you have uh, was back with a head comes from the united states. you have these countries in the west that have on equal control over policies that come out of these institutions. and to continue to take over the economies of the tug was and basically implement extractive policies which are about spinning and pillaging the nature of the environment and the communities and implementing policies which in democracy in these countries which establishing governments which are not of the people by the people for the people, but they really for the west and corporations. so what do we do with these institutions? we need to hold them accountable of an institution like the was bank. if it was really a bank, you minutes, boss, and the amount of damage is pause. it would no longer be operating. it is food and it stated mission of ending poverty. so i think it is absolutely important that

internationally we are asking what these institutions us to doing and we need to hold them accountable. this band should have gone out of business, given the kind of, uh, you know, damage it has caused around the world. it has given bad loans, which would have led to structural adjustment programs. these bad loans have been given very often to dictators where the poor people are having to pay back for them . so it's no real good size as to what should happen to these institutions, as well as to the part of the governments which basically wage wars. so corporations can continue to get rich. well, i signed a j bank of the head of the world bank, but he was nominated by joe biden, who's on on to biden, was paid by pen a, which is a alliance with mastercard. his previous employ biden seems to have confidence in him nevertheless, but given that your policy director has said how deceitful the united nations has become. because after all, and junior gutierrez is very quick to talk about this grading deal,

being important, given vladimir putin says, oh, well, we're open to a new one. is it impossible for us to, to organize? i'm kind of greenville in, during this war, that will not end up being a part of agribusiness corporations in the west, especially maybe if the u. n. is involved that will what, what, what is frederick miss? how your policy director go to against is you and i mean it's a paula, is it together with the western bank? financial is usually you and it's supporting large food trading companies, all the gods and they landed in jail. this is a stain export business in grow profits despite the cottage of war as well. this is all, it's really about being a v as the united nations, as the policy pink time, we look at the facts and instead of pulling the the c panel. well, it does appallingly deceitful because if you have united nation saying that this initiative is important to prevent famines and allow export of food commodities to

countries which are food insecure, which are in need. but you have to look at the fact that despite what the united nation states its own data, not all data but united nations data says, but only 3 percent of the food commodities that were exposed to from your printer, went to food and secure countries off the countries which had any kind of food shortages, they are going predominantly to european union. and the 2nd one is china on the roof and there are a few institutions like your one like oaks from actually as said similar things. what did like running and running your oakland institute given the way the world bank and i m f is able to use the funding for n g owes to presume the rubbish, everything you say? well actually what we do is be the issue there lies there. so use to kind of blowing smoke into the eyes of people. it is the work of the institutions like the

oakland institute to basically say that and pro has no new clothes. this is the word by which has consistent ugly line deck into some kids. and suddenly we think it is in the business of protecting the poor and improving food security. let's not forget, this is the same, is tradition which don't ask and countries which will fold explore open countries into food importing countries. so given its history and the evidence that exist, given the data that comes from the united nations itself, we have fooling ourselves and choosing to remain ignorant. yep. okay. funding development, development economics developments that is university educational institutions throughout the world. they're, they're funding people. so that they can proudly talk about wanting to solve world hunger and will be pirating this black sea green initiative. nonsense. where is your voice presumably is not heard on the main stream media or what i think this is really what's called tool washing. i mean, i think the burden of proof is on them to demonstrate how do they call it

development? now, how do you call devastating livelihoods development? how do you for destroying agriculture and livelihoods of small farmers development? so the burden of proof is really on them. so they can do a wash, they can dream wash, they can lie as much as they want. but when you look at their research and data again, their own data, you look at the research that comes out of the world bank. all you have to do is be slightly intelligent and not lazy and go through the fittest. the truth and the evidence is right there. it's a truth that you confront from or hide from in the lights of the amount of black rock connections to zalinski. maybe this is laughable or tragic, given the 10s of thousands that have been killed in this war. technically presume. reason ask you would say no, you know, boss is off to the us back who in 2014, it's illegal for foreigners to own land. so how is agribusiness managing to invade the country?

i'll give you more successfully than any other country. i would. i would strongly urge your viewers to read a report warning test, which clearly demonstrates using corporate data bases and private data bases to expose who was actually invested in these lands. i'm sorry, earlier i mentioned p h c. i should mention that the funds, which is a us based private equity fund, which is heavily invested, and with the us pension funds, foundations, university endowments invested, is the n c h capital. so you have private equity funds moving in like welch's. we're investing in land. so i'm afraid, presidents zaleski, you have to look at our reports and the data that we have secured, which beauty demonstrates who owns the land, is predominantly the on the golf and ukraine. as well as the west and financial interest predominantly north american and european. obviously they old and i wrong

doing and we're not an advocate for those funds. and in a case, i presume is a bad betsy. if i may do it, eventually it meets defeat in, in this war. and do you ever think that a, your, a defacto by mistake advising people to invest in these profiteering agribusiness firms as you explain what you appear to be saying is deep corruption involved in this war as regards food from native countries? i think everyone can say that the war is corrupt, as you said, if it wasn't so tragic, if it wasn't above the destruction of lives, that b a c, it would be funny and laughable as to how it's a chess game that's played. but the reality is, the tragedy. the tragedy of lives being lost, children's will losing their lives. the mine fields, destruction of livelihoods. i know war is about peace. no war

in today's world is about really dignity and reward is corrupt. every war is about taking the sources away and putting it in the military. industrial complex, she introduced civilized world to not have diplomacy to not have talk a fees to see lies being devastated. to see that you're creating and fama as being in the bible fee. instead of having rich livelihoods growing food for themselves, a country in the world, i mean, it's a shame that we are off fluids by his lies, of dignity and bravery, and democracy, and support and friendship with ukraine. the truth, as is once again the corporations who are out to make money and profit even if, if it's the cost of slides and last name, goods of the innocent underwriting the job. thank you. i think that's over the show. we'll be back on saturday with a brand new episode,

but until then you can give it to us firewall as social media. if it's not sensitive in your country and have to add channel going on directv on, rumbled up. com to watching you and all the episodes of going underground c center the, the 0 is the issue right now. the distance of the so that's it, the series putting it for you and you have them by see it the split this of the if they hit stop but even the way needs yeah. you're

saying you missed us and you to see that few those them but the scale man. so village doesn't notice. we are gambling with the future of all mankind and we're, we're risking it for not the, the, [000:00:00;00] the, the welcome to world the part after decades of congratulating itself on the long piece of is now in the midst of

a blog and possibly quite protracted conflict. what left here is and how long it may take until peace returns. 12 to discuss that i'm now enjoying buying good or bad. and european problem is number representing alternative for germany. mr. mac is great to talk to thank you very much for being available. my pleasure and good afternoon to you. now, let me start with a personal question because alternative for germany really in russia is often for trade as this party off. i don't know how to put it diplomatically, somewhat crude crude and not particularly enlightened walters. and yet, uh uh, judging from your condemning background to you have an advanced degree in law utilized in august for then the london school of economics. you wrote a book on emanuel con, um with such a scholarly and intellectual background. why did you off for these particular parties? well, it be made of 2 points 1st. it's greg. yes,