and there was an attempt to have him arrested on sexual assault charges in sweden and decided his fear was that even though the charges were false, it could be arrested and extradited to the united states. he sought refuge in the ecuadorian embassy in london, where he was granted asylum, at least for a period. but the c, i a worked with the ecuadorian government to bug the embassy for audio and video. and they spied on assigned and every visitor he ever had. the pace picked up in 2017, when we get weeks published, the volt 7 documents. these were some of the most sensitive spying methods that the c i a had ever developed. almost immediately, the trump administration and the department of justice filed espionage charges against assange. and then c, i a director, mike pompei o told the media that we gave weeks was a hospital non state intelligent service. soon after that were leaked out from the c, i that he that discussed plans to assassinate assange in london. and the justice department asked the british government to extradite him to the united states to stand trial.

he faces well over 100 years in prison. donald trump was only president for 4 years, and in 2021 joe biden took over at the white house. many observers believe the deal could be negotiated, that would see signs go free. after all, the obama administration had elected to not charge him with the crime. it would be reasonable to think that obama's concerns about prosecuting assigns while protecting the 1st amendment to the constitution would be biden's concerns. but that hasn't been the case. and julia sanchez, very few options left in his legal defense. as we're joined by jo loria, jo is the editor in chief of consortium news founded by the late robert perry. and he's a former journalist for the boston globe. the wall street journal. and the times of london. joe, thanks so much for being with us. that pleasure. be with you, john. always. we all know julian assigns from news reports we know about his technical background. but tell us about the kind of person that is. why has he

always been so concerned with transparency? well, he's from a early age. he was, his mother was a, as an activist. i think that influenced him strongly. and as a teenager, he didn't gauge and hacking, which is what the us government like people think he still does. and one of the earliest things he did was to have some us defense information during the iraq war . 1991, the us war on iraq. julia is an unusual person in the he has put his own safety is on futures on life now on the line in the pursuit of what he considers to be justice and transparency. and he combined that very strong sense of justice and his abilities as a journalist, speaking and writing with incredible technical skills that most journalists like myself, have very little of. so that combination allowed him to create to what,

what with help with the legs in 2006, which was all but took, i think the us, british state and other governments by surprise. it's a new form of journalism. you know, newspapers that always published. sometimes 3 or 4 pages of documents that you could read on a paper like parts of the pen on paper were published pending on papers, and i just 71 by the new york times. the idea of publishing 1000, just on hundreds of thousands of government documents online that searchable. but any citizen could look up and find a diplomatic cable or a military, a note about something that happened in iraq or afghanistan or what was going on in a blood tournament. this was something extraordinarily new and it took, i think, the governments by surprise, but the new york times and the by asian spiegel and them. and they found the they just, they all published the guardian. that's the one i forgot to publish the same stuff he did in 2010. so there was a sense then that this had to be published because they sat on this and would look

worse than actually publishing. and of course, as we know, everything turned around on drawing after we can get into this, the dnc leaked because before that, when he revealed george bush's crimes and republican crimes of obviously democratic media, we're happy with that. but that changed. so this is at heart a political issue, but julie sandra is an unusual man. um and i think i could say that for sure. tell us about chelsea mannings decision to reach out to wiki leeks, way back in 2009 we're giving is published a lot of things in that trunk of information that embarrassed the government, but none of it was particularly damaging and the collateral murder video was evidence of a war crime for many of us assign should have been celebrated rather than targeted, but that wasn't the response. why was the us government's response to assign, so heavy handed and do you believe that washington was trying to set him up on a 6 charge back then? that's why i don't know exact the answer to that. it does look black,

looked like that to some extent. there was certainly a lot of communication between the british, the crown prosecution service, and the swedish government about how to handle this case. and they tried to stop the prosecutor from coming to london to interview them in the embassy. this is over the allegations of sexual misconduct that the 1st prosecutor in this case, after the 2nd day of these allegation, lemay dropped dropped the whole foot. it was taken up later. so what exactly happened? there is not clear, may never become exactly clear what pressure was exerted on sweden and then on the police and the prosecutor's office to pick up a case that had been dropped. they also let him leave. they gave him permission to leave sweden after he went to the police and spoke to them and then the case was dropped, flew to london, and then not long after he got here. and this is the time when he published to have done what diaries, this isn't 2010. i think october that they suddenly issued this arrest warrant this

red alert from the into paul. and it turned out that there wasn't even the court that issued that warrant from sweden, it was to prosecute a different prosecute. and then the one who initially dropped the case who, who issued this and apparently the laws been changed because of that there are in suite and you have to have a court issue that you can have just to prosecute issue and arrest weren't. so g, he was again, i can't say for sure what exactly precious will put on this. we just government, but it looks like something happened there that changed this whole thing around. and i have to say julian and his lawyers thought that at the time, and they said that this is not about being expedited sweden, but it's going to be there's going to be onward expedition to the united states then charge the trial on these charges that he now faces right now, espionage charges and a computer intrusion conspiracy to commit computer intrusion charge, which is not

a hacking, by the way, the dot indictments do not accuse much dealing the documents. so there's something fishy going on once we know which i can give you a better answer. john brock obama famously said that he did not charge us on to the crime because the us government had what he called a new york times problem. can you tell us what that meant? if there had been a decision to not charge assigned with the crime, why was he forced to take refuge in the ecuadorian embassy? well, i could, after that, he went to the embassy because of the swedish tears. because i said that went forward and the extradition request from sweden to britain to send them to sweden, to face questioning. basically, there were no formal charges. everybody makes that mistake all the time you read about rate charges and this, there was no charges at all. they wanted in for questioning back in sweden, and he went all the way to the u. k. supreme court to stop the extradition and he lost. and before they could send them to sweden, he went to the equity or an embassy,

and eventually got asylum and stayed there all those years until he was dragged out by the british police with the connivance of the new echo during government. so julian, as fond i was afraid of that i would extradition and they were very well aware of that. but that's what was that the heart of this case and wasn't about the swedish charges which kind of relates to the last question. you asked me that this looks like a set up that was all about getting him on anything that can get them on tax evasion . or this, this case where the women basically wanted him to get an a, an s t d test. and one of the one that said, the condiment broken, and that's why they wanted this, they never alleged rate. so this was, but apparently, you know, in swedish has very little laws about that. so that was considered a sexual assault, possibly, although again, the charges were never made. so this was a kind of a looks like a set up to get them to go to the united states. and that's why they, he went into the embassy there. he did not want to go to sweden,

not to be questioned about this uh, the sexual issues, but the reset onto the united states. that's why he went into the embassy. the british government has been especially harsh and it's treatment of julian assigned . he was arrested technically on a bail jumping charge, but he's been held for years now in a maximum security penitentiary in london while he goes through the extradition process. why has he gotten such harsh treatment from the british? well, i'm like many people here. most people talk about this subject, i do not believe britain is a portable of the united states. i don't believe that they are just the vessel of united states that might fit germany more, but not britain, brittany. is it called participant and us adventures abroad? this look at the rock or think of margaret that you're telling george w bush. don't get wobbly about attacking iraq. it's where there are so many examples where the british government is very much in lock step with the united states and maybe even influencing their policy to stick out. and we're talking

about foreign policy of the united states. and julie massage is a threat to any state that is committing crimes essentially or corruption. and they have the power that we're seeing through the british courts to crush this man. like any tin pot dictated, would do. just one a reporter i'd something they don't like. they'll throw me in the dungeon and of course the we hear the sentiment is stuff coming out of washington. much more than our london about how these are human rights violations and us as intervene. this is all garbage because they, they intervene for their own strategic and political reasons and economic reasons, not because somebody's talking to someone because the america, so many allies throughout the 2nd world war, all those dictatorships, a lot in american, saudi arabia, israel, they all are committing great human rights violations, i'm not saying china or isn't, or there aren't in rush or almost every country has them, but they just pick and choose. so they use it in

a phony way to go after countries saying that they are violating human rights. joe loria. thank you so much for your insight. we have can take a short break, stay with us for more of our conversation about wiki weeks, co funder julian hassan. so we're going to find out the status of julian's case and just the. 2 the, the today and the new and never done before with trigger the general escape. that means

national governments are getting into the economy, match with the internet and it goes but to do because that's a job. on the 22 the i just wanted to come back and get it to us on the move to stem us. any thought if the message, the 2nd at and sick on the system. and studies show that this is a full turn, just the 75. i mean, so that interest that yours on for sure and for the ram and i said, i'll likely to get very loud. is the funny thing about this as soon as to resume this will be too much of a table and also receive the

arguably the most famous wisdom lower in the world. is julian massage, the co founder of which he lives. he made a name for himself and for his organization in 2009 with the release of documents said by chelsea manning. then bradley, many, many of those documents to embarrass the american government and a video that many included now known as the collateral murder video. showed clear evidence of a war crime. i'm john kerry onto your watching to whistle blowers. 2

2 2 2 2 2 julia sandra is a hero to many around the world who value transparency and human rights. the free speech absolutist has exposed countless governmental crimes, especially those committed by the united states, and has been a thorn in the side of washington policy makers for years. 3 successive american presidents had to deal with assange with wiki weeks and with a fall out from would give weeks disclosures. there were different strategies. first, it was clear that the united states wanted to stop us on sooner rather than later. there was an attempt to have him arrested on sexual assault charges in sweden. and as such as fear was that even though the charges were false, it could be arrested and extradited to the united states. he sought refuge in the ecuadorian embassy in london, where he was granted asylum, at least for a period. but the c, i a worked with the ecuadorian government to bug the embassy for audio and video. and they spied on assigned and every visitor he ever had. the pace picked up in

2017, when we can weeks published the volt 7 documents. these were some of the most sensitive spying methods that the c i a had ever developed. almost immediately, the trump administration and the department of justice filed espionage charges against assange and then c, i a director, mike pompei o told media that week a week's was a hospital non state intelligent service. soon after that word leaked out from the c, i that it discussed plans to assassinate assange in london. and the justice department asked the british government to extradite him to the united states to stand trial. he faces well over 100 years in prison. donald trump was only president for 4 years, and in 2021 joe biden took over at the white house. many observers believe the deal could be negotiated, that would see assign sco free. after all, the obama will send back to the suppliers and john travolta. we're speaking with joe loria,

he's the editor in chief of consortium news founded by the late robert perry. and he's a former journalist for the boston globe. the wall street journal. and the times of london. good to have you with us, joe. tell us about the status of julian's case right now. we know that the british high court recently ruled against him, but he has something of a 2nd shot before that court. does he not? the does, there is going to be a hearing before 2 judges that will last 30 minutes. so a sondors lawyers have 15 minutes to try to save this man's life before these 2 judges. the they are initially submitted 11910 months ago, a 150 page document asking for the high court to appeal the decision of the lower court judge who did rule did release him, quote unquote release him, then threw him back in jail. and by denying a bell released him on the grounds of that, he would probably commit suicide if you went to a u. s. prison and that on those basis san juan. but he was thrown back in jail.

the us then appeal that they went to the high court and they issued after that decision, they ask you what was really new evidence that the high court accepted that of these assurances these diplomatic assurances that they would not mystery joanna, such as the court accepted the lower court decisions that if we went to the us, uh he had suicidal tendencies and they, what they did was replace that or should see that with these assurances, they actually believe that the us would treat julian well and not mistreat him. and he has no dangers in the us a penal system. and of course there's also because the option that assurance is that if he does something they judge to be wrong. whatever. it's not specify what that is. and you told me, john, on occasions that you know that if you look at a guard the wrong way, that could be a reason to throw somebody back in solitary. so he would be in solitary confinement,

despite the assurance is that as plain as day. but the high court, as i said before, britain is as intent on getting him for reviewing these state secrets as united states as so they, this high court did accepted those assurances and us one and then a saw. and one of the go to you, what you cation bring court, the challenge that decision and the u. k. supreme court said no, we're not going to hear the case. so went back down to the last effort he had, which was to what, by so called cross appeal, which was to appeal that section of the lower court judge vanessa bernard, who agreed everything on points of politics in that document. her decision all agreed or with us on everything except that he was on the is help waiting, permit her to send him to the us. when that was overturn. assigned as large files as cross appeal, whatever they would look at his do his rights to free speech. uh the uh, the abuses of due process. it was about $8.00 to $12.00 points that they argued of

loss and the high court. after 9 months, one judge said jonathan swift with his little abuse and reasoning, just rejected and 3 pages is $150.00 page a submission and said no denied, denied, denied. and that would mean they has one last chance what you asked me about, and that is this last ditch effort to go before 2 judges in a public hearing for 30 minutes. and we're waiting here in london for that to happen. it could be any day. nobody's ever informed me that even us, honest people don't know. we were at 2 events in, in the parliament square on saturday. and then julian, sancha had a birthday party which of course he was conspicuously absent. but we heard a lot, and we've talked a lot to stella and kristen crafts in about what's going on and the it could come at any time this hearing. and if they reject is here whenever they make that decision, it can be put on

a plan that night to the united states. there is one last chance and that is to europe being court of human rights, which his lawyers, hassan has submitted a filing in december, asking them to intervene. there are cases where the court has intervened. and when there was one here a year or so ago where summer wanda and refugees were being sent back by the home secretary to rhonda where they clearly were in danger. and the plane was on the tarmac at a london airport, ready to take off in the european court of human rights, ordered it to stop, and it did however, so that's what they're hoping could happen. however, it's so complicated, and i've been researching this for a piece i want to do on the or a quarter of human rights and then where they, britain is actually obligated to the treaty in 1953 that set this court up says that federal states obligated to follow the rules of the court, the decisions of the court,

which would mean they and they have jurisdiction over all the members of the council of europe. some britain, a small part of this course, not a limited with the this is the council of your, of which britain is a member, so they are obligated according to the treat. however, in 1998, the british human rights act, the language was different. it's, we're just quotes, all i need to take consideration of the decisions of these so which one will this is very much like the debate between the u. k. u. s. extradition trading, which was expeditions for political offences and the enabling up empowerment for that treaty which left that out. so we've got these 2 contradictions here, between in both cases, the treaty, the tradition, trudy and the act, extradition act, and the human rights act of 1998, which seems to say something different than the treaty. so there's not a lot of optimism amongst all just people that i've talked to here in london. that b e d e c h r d, you appear in court of human rights will be able to save drawing

a joe, give us your assessment of the government's case. the justice department, star witness is a convicted liar and a pedophile. certainly the prosecutors wouldn't want to go into court with that. it seems to me that it would be better for everybody if the prosecutors offered julian to deal with time served and then allow him to go home to us trail. yeah. that way, washington save space and julian would be free. is that even under discussion to the best of your knowledge? jennifer robinson, one of the joins law. ready as an australian, but who's works here in london actually set for the 1st time at the national press club and camera on may 22nd. that they would consider a plea. but what is it going to play to? that was never said before. there was a pop of a so called alford play, which is a bizarre, a thing in the us. that's where a defendant can say, i'm not guilty. i didn't do this, but i'm not going to get

a fair trial. i know this is helpless. i just want to get out, so i'll plead guilty technically, but i didn't do it. and this is what david hicks in australia was thrown into one tournament, actually used to get to play deal in which they sent him back to australia serv 7 months. so when this became a, there's a lot of exciting when biden was going to go to sydney to meet with albany to the prime minister anthony alban, ancient australia many canceled the last minute his trip. but just before that caroline kennedy, the american, and that, yes, the daughter of slain j. f k. the door to the now us and past, which are still invited. 6 problem and 2 items from $3.00 to $2.00 parties, one independent to come for lunch, and camber, at the american embassy to discuss join us obviously, that couldn't have happened without the state department. it's not the white house approving that. so there was all this excitement, then albanese went on tv shortly, 5 days before that he had said on abc television history, on broadcasting progression, when he was here in london for the current nation, that he, what he has talked to american officials,

they can watch the caste and he's worried about his health. so there was this came up and then we found out the f. b. i still investigating the case and then the. 2 decided to just the hearing, so if there's going to be a plea, it's got to come with the last minute. and then joe biden remembers what he said in 2010. who knows? he would follow the principal then because nothing has changed. his case should be dropped, he knows that he knew there was no basis for it back then. and he knows now what the trump administration did was add some to the computer intrusion conspiracy chart, which they got this guy in iceland. did you say a convicted of frauds there to say to the f b i as an informant? that that julian was going around telling people to hack and what was happening. and then the guy came forward to a nice trip to iceland, a newspaper. instead i lied it, elijah, that thing collapses. that's part of the case would collapse if the court steps that this guy stays now,

then he lives. so nothing has changed from 2010 and by that should do something to the right thing with the julian supporters plan in the event that he's extradited to the us. if that happens, julian would be tried in the notorious district court for the eastern district of virginia. that's the home district of the c i a and the defense department. so what's the strategy on this? got? there's a big closet in front of the federal courthouse and alexandria, which i have an apartment just 8 minute drive from there. by coincidence. i hope i will have to make that drive to cover this trial. but if he's there, i think that flaws him would have to be filled with supporters and protests from around the country. if not the world. that's number one. number 2, there has to be heavy pressure. um, uh well this has to happen now and then hasn't happened. pressure on the politicians, members of congress. no, julian has gotten support from presidents in latin america from now the prime minister of his own country and the human rights. what major human rights watch as

our human rights groups and press freedom, groups of all come out behind them, even the new york times. and those other papers i mentioned wrote a joint letter to merit garland, each american attorney general saying drop the charges. this is a threat to free press to it's not just about drawing sondra and nothing has happened yet. so what the strategy be other than to make a rock us and to try to make it a difficult political issue for about for dropbox. because there's going to be an election coming up next year. and just by me, want a media circus there and where it becomes clear that he's prosecuting a reporter for reporting wrongdoing by the united states, which is withdrawal supposed to do. it's so clear that becomes clear and clear to the public, and most importantly, if m s n b c, which on the 90 was arrested, said it was wall because all drugs are tracked here the new york times. editorial back then said that let alone this letter,

so they know the mainstream and the most powerful, like m assembly, see like the new york times in the united states. they know what this means to journalism to their own jobs. i remember rachel metro that night saying i don't like them, you know, push them lagging because of the dnc leaks, which is by the way, right. but it's not moving because it's not in the environment. the dnc leaks or so the democrats still say uh, helped hillary blues spiked the tablet campaign. she she ran and he was just publishing through information. nobody's denied that members of the and see how to resign because it was approved. and the see i have all the 7 leaks which infuriated the c i a unplugged pay off to do, which is when he went after, during that and even as we know from a court case in spain. and then by yahoo is reporting that there was a plans disgusted for isn't or kidnapped julia, aside from the embassy. this is because of the c i a leak and the dns. so, so i think barton is going to be, she's being pressure to, would be by the dnc is on party with, he's supposedly the head of m a c i a,

a not to let the guy go, which has nothing to do with the indictment at that so buying us, go back to square one back to meet the present 2010. when he said, we didn't prove that, he stole the documents and became the items. uh, nothing is in the indictment about the dnc leads, or this is a purely political issue that changed the face of this case. for the rep uh by the administration trumped invited trump indicted him. trump took advantage of his arrest by this new government in ecuador, is the truck administration that why would the, by the restriction follow the heated donald trump's administrative the right because it serves the c, r a and the dmc. now, jo, laurie a thank you for your insights and thanks to our viewers for tuning in being a profit in the wilderness, speaking truth to power often leads to poverty and punishment. it's far easier to follow the wins of public opinion, but some things are black and white right or wrong, and it's always better to speak truth to power. that's what julian assange has done

. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers i'm john curiosity. we'll see you next time. 2 2 the european nations ultimately experienced that transformation with the exception that is, was kind of defeats as by the hard realities, right? or at least confronted was having to get a very significant wage. and you know the space up more or less the more or less the only exception to the general tendency. that, of course, has to deal with the fact that the jet radical situation of the other states is fundamental. that open iowa. that is the size of the confidence in the

the, the my only build you is that you should not stay home as i'm not doing the struggle for myself. i'm doing this for my nation, for you, for the future of your children. if you don't write up for your rights, you will leave the live of slaves about because donnie co sentences, the countries full of prime minister and run talented, 3 years in prison on full charges. the attentions intensify as echo wants defense chief agree on military action without repeating that invasion plan says people in the west african countries protest against the regional blocks functions and intervention. i'd like the media and the people of major to understand and i went back to us as doing nothing more than

instrumentation.