the, just as it shows you, fractured images, presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground? can the hello and welcome across stuck where all the things are considered on peter level. the west liberal leads continue to be afflicted by trumped arrangements. and from the very thought of trump returning to the white house as it goes the sense of panic. can you think of a better example of stockholm syndrome? the

to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guest, martin j america. she's an award winning journalist and commentator, and in budapest we cross the drawer to study while we use a pod cast, read the gamble, which can be found on youtube levels or a gentleman, cost offerings on the fact that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciated. all right, let's start out with george in budapest. um the, the genesis of this program is an article with george sent me a info into go title that comes in big political trouble. but he still is a nightmare for a year of which, you know, i thank you, george, it was a interesting reading. i suppose the title lead itself kind of makes you want to think of the binary. so you're isn't in a nightmare, right? and the, i mean i, it's, i just, but it's really astounding. okay. um the, the, the specter of the stroke of trump is haunting it,

the year of. but one could make an argument that europe was much better off under trump than by george. there you're absolutely right in the you'll be, your response was exactly the same as mine, and that's um the europeans think that that was a bad time. then did the trump the is when essentially trump was saying, you know, we want to kind of bring this alliance still kind of slow and, and so you can start thinking about your own security needs and we'll think about our, our own security needs. and this should have been a great opportunity for your pin 0 finally to bring to an end, essentially a dysfunctional relationship. and then the 1945 was a long time ago the long time ago, i assume you know when my home same as they said, i think 2017 or 2018 major was brand that the europeans who had before used to talk about the european security and defense identity, you know,

we have to do with things for ourselves. 0, stop relying on watching them. there's only been a great opportunity them to just go ahead and uh, you can use trump as an opportunity to do the re things as secure as you need. but no, according to political, there are no absolute panic that trump is coming back and trumpets only bank mean we're going to have to live rethink what we're doing. oh no, we just want to go on doing what the americans tell us to the we, you know, we want the want of finding a new great, and we want to don't want a sanctioning russia. we want to go on, you know, in the, creating the possibility of a nuclear conflict. is this the regard as being the do like a state of affairs that trump is written as long as i by says something like a by them is the most trials atlantis as president just george h w bush. as a what kind of a delusional world or the living in the i think that's why i said it might have deduction. this is like stockholm syndrome. i mean, if you, you know, your,

your worship your oppressor. okay? cuz that's what it sounds like. you're gonna learn, it's really interesting in the article. obviously it's political. okay. it's, it's a um, a, a, uh, an oregon propaganda, oregon of nato and of the western alliance. i mean need it 1st and foremost if it's no surprise, it political always breaks the strawberries. ok, because they're just this denominator for, for brussels. but what's interesting in the article to me anyway, and you as a journalist, there are, there is no public opinion polls. there's no, you know, average mr. and mrs. europe in there. it's just all political functionaries, thing tankers, and all of that mean you don't get and you don't. there's no gauging of public opinion, but of course i don't care about public opinion. i don't care about democracy. they don't care how the populace feels, how this conflict in your brain is affecting their bottom line on a daily basis. it's always a leap driven bar. you know, and the, the,

the article could have had a footnote to say. and one of the reasons why rim this messed out is because we tend to report only on your leads. and i mean, i only have view points based on the leads on both sides of atlanta. i mean, you, you use the expression style comes and you're also taking a task on that. i'm still kind of seeing them doesn't mean that the person, the hostage themselves actually pays cash to the terrorist. you're picking up the bus. what do you have? and you're actually being, it's not just that we are we are, we are held hostage to american. stockholm syndrome dilutes. okay. every day. okay . you bring it in tomorrow. okay. yeah. the, i think the important part did read the article. i know it was very much about how your opinion leads think, and they should be worried about the words nightmare a came up. but um you should be worried that you particularly should be worried. you know, 1st time really had a shock which trump, you know, um, he really did upset a lot of people with his,

with this. but it goes clumsy style. and we have to acclimatize us out to this guy who was not a political figure. he wasn't very smooth, it was a very eloquent. it was literally the bone in the china shop, but now we're ready with our best. we know what we get, you know, and i think trump will be thinking the same thing. but this time around we should, we should now forget, we should never forget the, the well, the trump will, will, will, will find himself in as president if he wins in 2024 is a very, very different world to the one that he started in, in january 2017, those as present the 1st time around, you know, this new will know that will mean the east, but one of the better expressions, the east on as follows, a much much stronger now. so he'll be looking at russia. it's stronger china, india, stronger. he'll be looking at something that he probably doesn't really even understand breaks, you know, which will have at least 5 new members this year. let's rel, i'm off of the top of my head. saudi arabia, egypt, iran, argentina,

and turkey. but it's fine, we'll probably join this. yeah. that's just this. yeah. you know, in the eruption maybe another 5. so that's, that's a very much different situation that he will be and he'll be looking at, but i think he will, he won't be looking for new partners and you're a pace that is full year run. before he knows more or less, the latter allowed, he would be looking at the school leads. i think he'll be, it'll be looking at people like niger foundry person, and he will probably single out own. and i'm hungry as his new populace to the rates and bashed in your opinion. and i may, so every given option to the cab, they'll be kick back to that from the french and germans macro. but you could, you could also make the argument. george is that it trumped as well. hope care are okay. sorry. because other things to do. okay. you know, we've been babysitting, you know, for almost a decades we've had enough. we've got other things to, to, to,

to contend with. and it gets down to the global trade, the competitive advantage. i mean, a, the know president trump talked about it. he wasn't able to finish his mission. but you know, you and i've talked about for about this for years in the us as to re tool in, in amanda, it's manufacturing if it's going to be relevant at all. okay. because right now the west has a gemini because of what the financial system and controlling trade. but once the brakes, as barton has brought up, you know, it's only a matter of time they have when they will come up with their own currency and then the dollar of less of the portal to go ahead george. exactly right. and uh, well yeah, if you take it back to the 2016 drum to figure it out, but need already figured this out many years before when he was 1st thinking of running in the, in the year 2000. that russia is not america's problem to the are, you know, that reveal russia should be america's ally in the you know, the game, i didn't do it. he wasn't above of atlantis,

just establishment. even care about nature. so you don't always believe the rush was potentially upon, but to the united states, you always believe china. china is the big threat. you boba's this bill here so that so he views the green war. you have acetic, solicit, they, but disagree. when he thinks that this is an absolute catastrophe in that it's printing united states against russia, which should be an ally of the united states. and when he comes back, he will 1st of all have a lot of resentment towards the europeans because he seen that the europeans are obviously much more a favorably inclined towards the bite. and then the democrats than they ever were toward him. he will have a lot of resentment over the british because, you know, he knows all about pressed up a steel and everything that they were doing at the election. and i know, and he knows that he has a lot of, you know, he's going to be facing this documents, data problem in morrow logo,

but he knows of what the british have. ok, repeat this, right. to release it. ok. and it was, again, the president united states he was stopped by his own underline. it's exactly right . that's what, that's what happened during this, but it's done that they have all the british going on. those will be in the, you know, actually damage of special relationship because of a release of information. he will remember all of that. and back in his 1st um he tried to make uh, make nice with the the establishment, you know, they, they do repeat and establishment the american establishment. hey, i, you know, i'm not really a big threat to you. he hide all those people to bump bills and a mattress and now the rest of them, he isn't really a neighbor almost cool. yeah. the way these are going to do it this time and, and, and i think you, you the, your bins a working off out of a small business for 2 years or a really small play doh. we see in the back of trump and i, they are realizing now he's coming back and he's going to be lima, lima ignacio. then he was last time around to just enjoy church. it's thank us that

back. i mean it's, we've, it's neither here nor there. he's going to come back now we're going to talking about perceptions here. but martin, you're absolutely right. a lot is really changed. and 1st of all, i don't think trump is going to have much patience for the europeans that he has a very different agenda. i. the immigration, for example, china from trade or overall. and you know that the way the buying administration has helped degrade european industrial base, particularly germany. i mean it's just not, it's just not going to be worth is his time. and i think going forward that's going to happen, the respective of who's in the white house. go ahead mark a may, will take a step back even further from, from policy. i'm a real, it seems that this is just a rather silly way of wasting a lot of time i'm you should be focusing much more on the heart of the republican policies and particularly the mac, a obsessions, you know, which keep coming up. yeah, it will be into work that will be big of it. immigration, and america taking

a bigger slice of global trade by hook or by crook they were to get these will be the main focus is i think, any of the relationship between the democrats and the you and you're in union has always been, you know, the perception is we can get along a little bit better with the democrats, because they tend to stick to uh, previously agreements and not particular capricious, that quite boring and predictable. whereas republicans, they're easy to get along with and talk to, but some recovery project wherever they'll go. and, and i think this will be really the super become through with trump. you know that what you just want to know what is next step will be, but i think the idea of the european union and, and your country should start preparing. now. let's just start thinking about now, how do we cope with um, from 2 point oh, you know, um with what i've just said about the background of the new world order. you know how we really were. yeah, he will try and develop road unit. i'm show a book,

you know, and i think the kick back from the french, particularly for my call, will be to push even how to, with this new idea of taking away the, there's the type of hosting system to go to majority voting. so the countries like on great can no longer and stop us progressing in his notes and comments. you know, we stop tried this, but you can, will he want to come out of ukraine? the idea will be very much related to the syrians. we have to good to go to a break here, but it's very interesting is that um how trump will be able to use this. and within the european union, you further american induced gentleman going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on so we'll need to stay with our to the,

by the early 1950. can you became one of the centers of resistance to colonialism in africa. the british invaders infringed on the most basic rights of the local population, great britain to pursue the policy of squeezing out the local population from their indigenous lands. the best airable areas were given to white farmers, dooming canyons devolve or d and hunger. this caused the sharp protest of the peasants and led to the emerging of the mile mile movement, which started the bike against the invaders. the rebels called themselves canyon, land and freedom army. the spiritual leader of the movement would be anti colonial, active as jo, mo kenyata, the freedom fighters used guerrilla tactics and attacked individual units of the greatest troops. the latter responded with massive air raids and artillery effects . when suppressing the uprise of london relied on the maximum cruelty over

$50000.00 canyons were killed. about 300000 people were thrown into prisons and concentration camps, where tortures in no way inferior in girl z to the nazis was widely practiced. the veracity of the colonial listed only lead the temporary success. in 1963, the british empire had to recognize the independence of gain. yeah. however, the colonial regime left behind a trail of blood and bones that canyon nation has not recovered from on sale. now the the welcome at the cross that were all things are

considered. i'm beautiful. a bell. this is the cross top bullhorn is edition the all right, let's go back to george storage area talking about what's changed since january 2017, to the present. one thing that it seems quite irreversible, and they, and the democrats and their, their colleagues in the european union have succeeded in creating a huge wedge and irreversible wedge. dividing the united states from russia and invest because of the stockholm syndrome europe, from russia. that is the biggest single change i just was never to even it from makes it back to the white house too much has happened. there's not gonna be any kind of reconciliation the best we could probably hope or is a very, very cold and ugly cold war george?

well, i think that's a very likely i'm on the other hand, you're something to think about, especially that um chrome. um, if he actually does make moves towards bringing this down thing to an end up role, that's what he's promised that's, that's it. you know, he's been the one that the collection promised that he continues to repeat. i will end this in 24 hours. so he's gonna have to do something to make that happen. so now once he does that, we know that the, the political security establishment in the united states will go into high gear to try to stop him. and, and bone p. s a, you know beecher and the they will impeach him. and then he will also go to the european political establishment, which is also that will be in panic mode that they and also, you know, see whatever they, they can do in order to stop in. and there any indications of that in the political all to go that they were ready, the some kind of collusion between european politicians and the political stage as

on the hill to make sure that somehow trunk cannot do anything drastic like withdrawal from nato or withdrawal assistance from ukraine's so right away, we're just setting up a political crisis almost from the beginning. i mean that, but this is going to be the, the like, huge issue. and then again, you know, it's for a developing picture him, i mean, he will probably survive. and then he'll go against the europe again. but his problem in europe is that he doesn't have too many allies at the moment. the, obviously, as vicar or button is explicit, they come out to him in favor of him for our ours or is obviously a trump in book. so obviously a way for us goes, i mean, he's not, you know, he's not standing in. that's as far as we can say in the next election. so not like that's what changed. i mean them there might be, you know, waiver us who will go withdrawn problem. uh, you know, he says he's the but he's the election went to so i'm gonna go with him. but at the

moment he will have a recalcitrant your ups, but that might not displease it. means i go to. yeah, i don't, i don't need these bogus. i think, you know, you know, particularly, i mean, depending on how the situation in ukraine involves, i mean a trump presidency, you'll just do this. we wipe our hands. okay. i mean, of course, that will still lead to some form of impeachment, but i mean, it will put your on notice is that if you want to resolve your security problems on your account, then you better take care of it. okay? and i think that that will shift a lot of people, but what it will do is it will create a huge crate. okay, chaos inside of nature, what so many b, but maybe from blog post that with me, i remember top fluids being charged up to date. either. trump is completely ignorant of what the lights is about and it seems to be always pointing 5 dimensional chess. i think you remember those conversations go ahead looking. yeah, i think i think you're absolutely right. you've mailed it,

but i think the deposit is probably coming from night to itself. it's probably coming from mistakes of next to, you know, i'm wondering what that, what we're going to do. if he goes ahead with any of these ideas to be asked. if you look back in the newspaper, all kind of remember the 1st time he came to europe, the infamous a in nature summit, where he pushed a couple of the world leaders aside to very quickly get in front of the crowd so that success means you're literally just slid the door and finally correct. the montenegro i think is the point is, is, is, is that i think that there's some refinancing. there will be a certain rebundle saying in this new world order between america and you have, and i think it's trump may not have to go that far and cancel the kind well he may, will just sit beside the europeans. we spent much too much money on the side and now it's your tongue. so you have a choice, you know, we're not going to spend another $100000000.00 a year in military aid for these people in a world that we don't believe it when i go boats has

a lot of options in my account saying spend money on politics spend money on jobs, you know, it may well be that the europeans we pushed into this ultimate, some web i. they would have to seriously think about spending much more than 2 percent of gigi. be, you know, much, much more or simply cut the losses and get this cheaper. okay. marketing is martin already the, the, the, what we called the welfare state is under trap in europe. okay. i mean, us, there, it's almost kind of a permanent state of austerity. and now they want to of defense spending, how terrible that is, and is that in europe, in your opinion? so kind of, i've seen the afternoon of the day to both of you. where are they going to get the young man that wants to fight these voice unless you are, you know, that's the intent to bring in moldova, so you can have them, adobe an army by the nato's wars. martin, i think it was that. what will happen is the europeans are site, that's not realistic, particularly with a number of key elections coming up, but typically european unit elections of 2024, where the

e u is already preparing itself to be, must reflect how much i think the red result will be that, so there be a lot of that challenge of diplomacy between europe and america and nature. and inevitably, that will be a piece process that will be towards the future and pitching will have to, it's a story. the west will have to accept the temperatures of kitchen as now i'm going to stay hits. and the, the, the payoff i suppose will be, um, uh, ukraine, getting nature membership that, that why might they want may be part of the whole deal. you know, but um the trump is, is going to utah on so much is going to settle someone who school is when he gets into the office in the 1st few months. and you're quite right. he may, will not have any of these e u. member states and that relates in his thoughts because that just, you know, not particularly important to the bigger picture you're gonna use on, on the other assignment. of course, i'm just gonna make him she usually, i'm popular and indeed opinion and you know, and he's going to invest in fossil fuse in america. i don't know if for on policy,

so could he may, will do it lights, but the x rays are rubbing, i'm hoping i'm waiting. when he gets back in, these are only allied with completely correct, but i did all searching around because even the sound is on going anywhere near the idea anymore. so that's, that's it. i'm not sure. you know, i see. i think there's nothing to make any, any friends in europe, but it may, will not match that it may will be a deal with no luck with. but he is such a lead obsessed with re balance and this global, the not just administer spending but, and actually how we do business with us and you just don't forget the use, but they've been hit really hot by a lot of tax incentives or the board the ministration is crazy for american businesses. what they were say, say a completely alpha, one of which is called brother awkwardly an eye or a text and subscription. so when he comes in the balance, he will be facing, oh, angry your parents, who now i said about the day we're going to george going back to my original

question. i mean, home, how much of bouncing around in ricocheting can europe go with americans to germany? i mean, again, you know, if it's not a nightmare now, i can't imagine the count didn't get much worse. okay. this is under buying right now. i mean, it gets you and then you know, we have look at, you know, i'm a political, did they were for them, the most dreaded thing is populism, obviously, in any time they mention populism is coming back, most of wayne is moving in. okay. they always go to the extremes here, but then, you know, with this, this hot, cold relationship with the united states, it's becoming very dysfunctional going forward year. there isn't a populist opportunity in europe and a leads political and everybody else has terrified about george. yeah, no question. and i think that's, that's like the article revealed in that what they are trading is the popular opinion and making itself so because this rule is been all this for

a long time. this war is not popular in europe. now one of the things that um, you know, we hear about older europeans will be unhappy about this. they are bins aren't happy about that. yes, the european, the leads you're being the lead so well, you know, they worry about fossil fuels. you know, they have preoccupied with the net 0, but the public in europe is not. and they are families old is going to a band and ukraine. well, the public is not interested in, in that, and uh, and the issue of, uh, immigration. well, again, you know, the, this was kind of thing. the political doesn't want to take any interest in how they are being public feels about centrally migrants instead of continuing to pull out into the continent. so, you know, trump is, is a nightmare of the leads and there's nothing really new about that because of the european leads. always traded. that an american president is going to come in and

say, this is not, you know, why and why we're on the hook for these very rich lazy stage, but don't want to pay for their own military and expect us not only to bail about, but to risk the destruction of the cities for the sake of doesn't even when it comes up, any money. i mean, they're always worried about this only ever. you know this for years and years the, we're going to get some kind of a populace. when you play this line, they may, they may get it martin then what, why isn't there a radically re thing in europe? because why has everything have to revolve around? who's in the white house? i mean a, it, again, it just seems like such a pattern mistake. view of themselves, i mean again, you know, oh and boca, you know, we don't need future historians to a did the tell us why we need psychiatry is because i don't understand if everything isn't coming in about who's sitting, what person is sitting in the white house but in europe is obviously doing something wrong. it's not a poor place. unfortunately for so long now. you know,

we, we, we have separate from this still come central. we have looked, you know, i was in process for 11 years on the phone policy. i own slaves. oh, the entire architecture. probably the most important part of the furniture is committed and you're being bottom and basically more or less in the pocket of the americas, they have a default position, which is if we don't have a chair pin or something, go with american a cultural last from israel to, to show it to, you know, to the conflicts around the world, how we handle the advocate advocate right now. what's happening in africa. we are seeing the motion to discover real new cold war. you know, you have these 3 countries in the center of the saw how much it, because if i said my going out friends of russia who completed rejected french, you on western germany, you know, i'm, the world is changing and i think the european union, you know, probably is going to do the only sense it can possibly do under such laura with

a new unclear and more bellicose, small. and reverend trump, which is to input a small thomas. so you're going to have a trade which isn't the image is actually negligible, and that's why let's go his writing about this because he storage that, that's the them to us. we cause it wrong. there are no other default positions that gentleman have run out of time. but george, i think you agree with me that the colonial power is just can help but flex their muscles. they just that's their default position. ok. all right, gentlemen, what i think my guess in budapest and americans and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time, remember, i'll stop rules. the the city is full wisdom, the wisdom,

the word order. and indeed, all for you is for jim with that word order is now reach us. see in your 3 is the last it came by the americans and the fuel western allies. the have moved on is put in the dry, totally being that it's a more upbeat in order that has no relation with the, the the,

[000:00:00;00] the small in the process and, and delegation attending the general while the country is a new leadership. riley's to pull to is a made the threat of formative prevention from the west after leaving a blow. also, as we are about to witness it, the newest, its main purpose is to surveil d. behind the enemy lines as well as going to use is mostly bathroom feel solution is to support is seems solvable out of the brain comforts. the rush of amazon says it's so it does have revealed, keeps forces making and balances along the front lines. global wheat