[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome across stuck where all things are considered on people of elk, the west liberal leads continued to be afflicted by trimmed arrangements and from the very thought of trump returning to the white house. as it goes, the sense of panic. can you think of a better example of stockholm syndrome the to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guest, martin j america. she's an award winning journalist, and commentator. and in budapest we cross the drawer to study. while we use a broadcast, read the gamble, which can be found on youtube and levels, or a gentleman, cost offerings on the best. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciated. all right,

let's start out with george in budapest. um the, the genesis of this program is an article to george, send me info into go title that comes in big political trouble, but he still is a nightmare for a year of which, you know, i thank you george. it was a interesting reading. i suppose the title lead itself kind of makes you want to think of the binary so you're isn't in a nightmare, right? and the, i mean, i, it's, i guess, but it's really astounding. okay. um the, the, the specter of the stroke of trump is haunting it. the year of but one could make an argument that europe was much better off under trump than by george. there you're absolutely right. and the, your response was exactly the same as mine. that the europeans think the that was a bad time. then did the trump the is when essentially trump was saying, you know,

we want to kind of bring this alliance still kind of slow and, and so you can start thinking about your own security needs and we'll think about our, our own security needs. and this should've been a great opportunity for your pin 0 finally to bring to an end, essentially a dysfunctional relationship. and then the 1945 was a long time ago the long time ago. and it seems, you know, what my problem statement is. they said, i think 2017 or 2018 major was brand that the europeans who had before used to talk about the european security and defense identity. you know, we have to do with things for ourselves and others of relying on washington. there's only been a great opportunity them to just go ahead and use trump is an opportunity to do the re things as secure as you need. but now according to political, there are no absolute panic that the trump is coming back and trumpets coming back me. we're gonna have to, you know, rethink what we're doing. oh no,

we just want to go on doing what the americans tell us to the we, you know, we want the want of finding a new great, and we want to go on a sanctioning rupture. we want to go on into creating the possibility of a nuclear complex. is this the regard as being this? is it doing a state of affairs, the trump is written as long as i by says something like a by them is the most trials atlantis. this president says george h w bush as a what kind of a delusional world or a living in the i think that's why i said it might have deduction. this is like stockholm syndrome. i mean, if you, you know, your, your worship your oppressor. okay? cuz that's what it sounds like you're gonna learn. it's really interesting in the article. obviously it's political. okay. it's, it's a, um, a, uh, an oregon propaganda, oregon of nato and of the western alliance. i mean, need it 1st and foremost if it's no surprise it political always breaks the stories . ok,

because they're just an offer for brussels. but what's interesting in the article to me anyway, and you as a journalist, there, there is no public opinion polls. there's no, you know, average mr. and mrs. europe in there, it's just all political functionaries, thing tankers. and all of that means you don't get and you don't. there's no gauging of public opinion, but of course, i don't care about public opinion. i don't care about democracy, they don't care how the populace feels, how this conflict in your brain is affecting their bottom line on a daily basis. it's always a leap driven bar. you know, and the, the, the article could about a foot note to say. and one of the reasons why run this mess style is because we tend to report only on your leads and i only have view points based on the leads on both sides of atlanta. i mean, you, you use the expression style comes and you're also taking a task on that. i'm still kind of saying them doesn't mean that the person, the hostage themselves actually pays cash to the terrorist. you're picking up the

bus. what do you have? and you're actually paying, it's not just that we are we're, we are held hostage to american. stockholm syndrome dilutes. okay, every day. okay. you bring it in tomorrow. okay. yeah. the, i think the important part did read the article and it was very much about our european leads think, and they should be worried about the world nightmare i came up. but um, you should be worried that a, you particularly should be worried. you know, 1st time really had a shock which trump, you know, um, he really did um, upset a lot of people with his, with his bellicose clumsy style. and we have to acclimatize us out to this guy who was not a political figure. he wasn't very smooth, it was a very eloquent. he was literally the bone in the china shop, but now we're ready with the best. we know what we get, you know, and i think trump will be thinking the same thing. but this time around we should, we should now forget, we should never forget the, the well, the trump will, will,

will, will find himself in as president if he wins in 2024 is a very, very different world to the one that he started in, in january 2017, those as president, the 1st type of, well, you know, this new will know that will mean the east. i want to do better expressions on the east and as follows, a much much stronger now. so he'll be looking at russia, it's stronger, china, india, stronger. he'll be looking at something that he probably doesn't really even understand breaks, you know, which will have at least 5 new members this year. let's rel, i'm off of the top of my head. sorry, ravia, egypt. iran, argentina, and turkey, but it's fine. we'll probably join this. yeah. let's just this. yeah. you know, in the eruption maybe another 5. so that's, that's a very much different situation that he will be and he'll be looking at, but i think he will, you will be looking for new partners and you are a pace that is full year run before he knows more or less the latter loud,

he would be looking at the school leads, i think you'll be, it'll be looking at people like nigel farrell, depression, and he will probably be single outs. and i'm hungry as his new populace to the rates and bash to your opinion. and i may, so every given option to the cab, they'll be kicked back to that from the french and germans macro. but you could, you could also make the argument. george is that it trump just hope care, rick. okay, sorry. say this because other things to do. okay. you know, we've been babysitting, you know, for almost a decades we've had enough, we've got other things to, to, to, to contend with. and it gets down to the global trade, the competitive advantage. i mean, a, the know president trump talked about it. he wasn't able to finish his mission, but, you know, you and i've talked about for the, about this for years. the us as to re tool in, in amanda, it's manufacturing. if it's going to be relevant at all, okay? because right now the west has a gemini, because of,

with the financial system and controlling trade. but once breaks, as barton is brought up, you know, it's only a matter of time they have when they will come up with their own currency and then the dollar, the less likely portal to go ahead judge. exactly right. and uh, yeah, if you think back to the 2016 trying to figure it out, but need already figured this out many years before when he was 1st thinking of running in the, in the year 2000. that russia is not america's problem. the the are, you know, that are real rough. sure, sure. be america's ally. in the end of the game. i didn't do it. he wasn't above of atlantis as the stablish when he didn't care about nato. so you don't always believe the roster is potentially a palm but to the united states. you always believe china. china is the big threat . boba's this bill here so that so he views the green war you ever studied. soliciting, but this guy, when he thinks that this is an absolute catastrophe in that it's printing united states against russia,

which should be an ally of the united states. and when he comes back, he will 1st of all have a lot of resentment towards the europeans because he seemed that the europeans are obviously much more uh, a favorably inclined towards the by them than the democrats, than they ever were. toward him. he will have a lot of resentment though with the british because, you know, he knows all about 1st of all, stealing everything that they were doing at the election. and i know, and he knows that he has a lot of, you know, he's going to be facing this documents date, probably tomorrow. lago, but he knows of what the british have. ok say repeat this. brandon to release it. okay. and it was, again, the president united states he was stopped by his own under my it's exactly right. that's, that's what happened during his 1st done that they, all the british going on. those will be in the, you know, actually damage of special relationship become part of a release of information. he will remember all of that. and back in his 1st, um,

he tried to make, uh, make nice with the establishment. you know, they, they were banned establishment. the american establishment, hey i, you know, i'm not really a big threat to you. he hide all those people, the pump bills and a mattress and the rest of them. he has literally a name jerome. cool. yeah. the way these all going to do it. that's fine. and uh and, and i think you, you the, your bins a working off out of a small business for 2 years or really small. it's like a, we've seen the back of trump and i, they are realizing now he's coming back, he's going to be a lean mean not c a. then he was last time around to the george. it's thank us that back. i mean it's, we've, it's neither here nor there. he's going to come back. now get to talking about perceptions here. but martin, you're absolutely live a lot is really changed. and 1st of all, i don't think trump is going to have much space in for the europeans, but he has a very different agenda. i'm a, the immigration, for example, china from trade or overall. and you know,

that the way the buying administration is help degrade european industrial base, particularly germany. i mean, it's just not, it's just not going to be worth is his time. and i think going forward that's going to happen. the respective of who's in the white house go ahead more. he may, will take a step back even further from, from policy. i don't think that this is just a rather silly way of wasting a lot of time. um, you should be focusing much more on the heart of the republican policies, particularly the mac, a obsessions, you know, which keeps coming up. you know, it'll be onto work that will be a big part of it. immigration, and american taking a bigger slice of global trade by hook or by crook they were to get these will be the main focus is i think, i mean, the relationship between the democrats and the on the european union has always been, you know, the perception is we can get along a little bit better with the democrats because they tend to stick to previously

agreements. and they're not particularly precious that quite boring and predictable . whereas republicans, they're easy to get along with and talk to, but some we call a project wherever they will go. and i think this will be a really super become through with trump. you know that what you just want to know what is next step will be, but i think the idea of the european union and i'm a, your country should start preparing now. let's just start thinking about now, how do we cope with um, from 2 point oh, you know, um with what i've just said about the background of a new world old or you know how we really were. yeah, he will try and divide and rule unit. i'm show a book, you know, and i think the kick back from the french, particularly for my call will be to push even how to, with this new idea of taking away the disney type of hosting system to go to majority voting. so they're punctured, like i'm on great to no longer so stopped us, progressing in his what's incumbent, as you know, was upside, is putting you can, will he want to come out of ukraine?

the idea will be very motivated to this area. and so we have to get to go to a break here, but it's very interesting, this idea of how trump will be able to use this and within the european union, your further american interest, gentlemen, going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break and after that short break will continue our discussion on some real estate with our to the after the nazis bower in italy, states foreign policy became extremely aggressive. benito mussolini needed glorious victories. he decided to achieve his ambitions in africa. despite the fact that formally libya had become an italian colony back in 1912. the vast territories of

this country were not actually controlled by rome. the nazis decided to put an end to this. but as soon as the religious order of this genocide stood in their way, the arabs did not want to submit to foreign power and put up there's resistance. dividers against colonialism were led by the sheets of this and the side order. omar l moves are always nicknamed the lion of the desert for his incredible courage . despite the violent, bombardments and boys in gas usage, mass deportations, and the imprisonment of the local population in concentration camps. the invaders could not go with the arrow patriots for a decade. in 1931, omar l move star was captured and sentenced to hang type of trial. the hero of the libyan people behaved very bravely and rejected. pardon, pursuing a policy of genocide speedily was only able to temporarily suppress libya,

18th of the entire population. more than 100000 people fell victim to their. however, just a few years later, the entail you enroll, collapsed in 1951, libya became one of the 1st countries in africa to gain independence. the, the full wisdom, the wisdom, the word order. and indeed of us could, you would be that word order is now that you will see in your 3 is the last that came by the americans and the fuel western allies that they have full time, including the dry to the being that it's a multi didn't order that has no relation with

the 12 them at the cross stop were all things are considered. i'm beautiful. a bell. this is the cross top bull horns addition. the all right, let's go back to george storage area talking about what's changed since january 2017, to the present. one thing that it seems quite irreversible, and they, and the democrats and their, their colleagues in the european union have succeeded in creating a huge wedge and irreversible wedge. dividing the united states from russia and invest because of the stockholm syndrome europe, from russia. that is the biggest single change i just was never to even it from makes it back to the white house too much has happened. there's not gonna be any

kind of reconciliation the best we could probably help or is a very, very cold and ugly cold war george? well, i think that's a very likely i'm on the other hand, you're something to think about, especially that um chrome. um, if he actually does make moves towards bringing this down thing to an end up role, that's what he's promised that's. that's either his is the collection promise that he continues to repeat. i will end this in 24 hours. so he's gonna have to do something to make that happen. so now once he does that, we know that the, the political security establishment in the united states will go into high gear to try to stop him. and i'm going to say no feature. and then that will impeach him, and then he will both of the, the european political establishment, which is also that will be in panic mode that they and also, you know, see whatever they, they can do in order to stop in. and there any indications of that in the political

all to go that they were ready, some kind of collusion between european politicians and the political stage as on the hill to make sure that somehow trunk cannot do anything drastic like withdrawal from nato or withdrawal assistance from ukraine, so that right away, you'll just setting up a political crisis almost from the beginning. i mean that this, this is going to be the, the like huge issue. and that again, you know, it's for a developing picture him, i mean, he will probably survive. and then he'll go against the europe again. but his problem in europe is that he doesn't have too many allies at the moment. the obviously, as victor or button was explicit, they come out to him in favor of him for our ours or is obviously a trump in book. so obviously, way for us goes, i mean, he's not, you know, he's not standing in. that's as far as we can say in the next election. so not likely, but we'll change that to the them that might be, you know,

waiver us who will go withdrawn problem. uh, you know, he says he's the but he's the election when a so we're going to go with him. but at the moment he will have a recall cetera, your of but that might not displease it means i go to. yeah, i don't, i don't need these bogus. i think, you know, you know, particularly, i mean, depending on how the situation in ukraine involves, i mean a trump presidency, you'll just do this. we wipe our hands. okay. i mean, of course, that will still lead to some form of impeachment, but i mean, it will put your on notice is that if you want to resolve your security problems on your account, then you better take care of it. okay? and i think that that will shift a lot of people, but what it will do is it will create a huge crate. okay, chaos inside of nature with so many be but maybe from the last that we've seen, i'm member top fluids being charged up to date. either. trump is completely ignorant of what the lights is about and its history always pointing 5 dimensional

chest. i think you remember those conversations go ahead. look and yeah, i think uh, i think you're absolutely right. you've mailed it, but i think the deposit is probably coming from night to itself. it's probably coming from mistakes of next to, you know, i'm wondering what that, what we're going to do. if he goes ahead with any of these ideas to be asked. if you look back in the newspaper, all kind of remember the 1st time he came to europe, the infamous the nature of summit, where he pushed a couple of the world leaders aside to very quickly get in front of the crowd so that success means you're literally just slid the door and finally, career montenegro i think is the point is, is, is, is that i think that this some refinancing, it will be something we both say in this new world order between america and you have and i think it's trump may not have to go that far and cancel the kind well he may, will just sit beside the europeans, but we spent much too much money on the side. and now it's your tongue. so you have a choice, you know, we're not going to spend another $100000000.00

a year in military aid for these people in a world that we don't believe it when i go boats has a lot of thoughts as it might come saying spend money on politics spend money on jobs, you know, it may well be that the europeans we pushed into this ultimate, some web i. they would have to seriously think about spending much more than 2 percent of gigi be you know much, much more or simply cut the losses and get this cheaper. okay, marketing is martin already the, the, the, what we called the welfare state is under trap in europe. okay, i mean us there, it's almost kind of a permanent state of austerity. and now they want to of defense spending. how terrible that is. and is that in europe, in your opinion, don't tend to buy exhibit at the end of the day to both of you. where are they going to get the young man that wants to fight these voice? unless you are, you know, that's the intent to bring in moldova, so you can have them, adobe, an army by the nato's wars. martin? yeah, i think it was the, what will happen is the europeans are site. that's not realistic, particularly with

a number of key elections coming up. typically european unit elections of 2024, where the use or where to prepare yourself to be, must have the kind of mode. i think the read result will be that. so there be a lot about challenge of diplomacy between europe and america and nature. and inevitably, that will be a piece process that will be towards the future. and pigeon will have to, it's a sort of the west, we'll have to accept that. so the temperature is approaching us now, going to stay hits. and the, the, the payoff i suppose will be, um, uh, ukraine, getting nature membership that what made they want me to be part of the whole deal . you know, but the trump is, is going to utah on so much is going to settle someone who school is when he gets into the office in the 1st few months. and you're quite right. he may, will not have any of these e u member states and that relates in his thoughts because that just, you know, not particularly important to the bigger picture, you're going to utah and on the iris climate. of course,

i'm just gonna my computer me, i'm popular in into your opinion and you know, i need to invest in fossil fuse in america. i don't know if for on policy, so could he may, will do it, lights. bucks the x rays are rubbing. i'm hoping i'm watching when he gets back in these are only allied with completely correct, but i did all searching around because even the salvage on going anywhere near the idea anymore. so that's, that's the not show. you know, i see. i think there's nothing to make any, any friends in europe, but it may, will not match that it may will be a deal with no luck with. but he is such a lead obsessed with re balance and this global, the not just in minutes just spending but, and actually how we do business with us and you just don't forget the use, but they've been hit really hot by a lot of tax incentives or the board, the ministration is crazy for american businesses. what they were saying is that a completely alpha, one of which is called brother awkwardly an eye or a text and subscription. so when he comes in the palace he will be facing, oh, angry your pants,

who now i said about the day we're going to george going back to my original question. i mean home, how much of bouncing around and ricky shane, can you go with american to germany? i mean, it's again, you know, if it's not a nightmare now, i can't imagine like how it didn't get much worse. okay. this is under buying right now. i mean, it gets and then you know, we have look at, you know, i'm a political, did they were for them, the most dreaded thing is populism, obviously, in any time they mention populism is coming back, most of wayne is moving in and okay, they always go to the extremes here, but then, you know, with this, this hot, cold relationship with the united states, it's becoming very dysfunctional going forward year. there isn't a populist opportunity in europe and a leads political and everybody else has terrified about george. yeah, no question. and i think that's the, the,

the article revealed in that what they are trading is the popular opinion and making itself so because this rule is been all this for a long time. this war is not popular in europe. now one of the things that um, you know, we hear about older europeans will be unhappy about this. so your opinions aren't happy about that. yes, the european, the leads you're being a lead so well, you know, they worry about fossil fuels. you know, they've preoccupied with the net 0, but the public in europe is not. and, and they are families. oh because he's going to a band and ukraine. well, the public is not interested in, in that and uh and the issue of, uh, immigration. well, again, you know, the, this is the kind of thing the political doesn't want to take any interest in how they are being public feels about centrally migrants instead of continuing to pull out into the continent. so, you know, trump is, is a nightmare of the leads and there's nothing really new about that because of the

european leads. always dreaded that an american president's going to come in and say, this is not, you know, why and why we're on the hook for these very rich, a lazy stage, but don't want to pay for their own miller trade and expect us not only to bail amount but to risk the destruction of the city is for the sake of it doesn't even when it comes up any money. i mean, i'm always worried about this only ever. you know this for years and years the, we're going to get some kind of a populace. when you play this line, they may, they may get it martin then why isn't there a radically re thing in europe? because why has everything have to revolve around? who's in the white house? i mean it again, it just seems like such a pattern mistake. view of themselves, i mean again, you know, oh and boca, you know, we don't need future historians to a did the tell us why we need psychiatry is because i don't understand if everything isn't coming in about who's sitting,

what person is sitting in the white house but in europe is obviously doing something wrong. it's not a poor place. unfortunately for so long. no, no we, we, we have separate from this still come central. we have looked, you know, i was in process for 11 years on the phone policy. i own slaves. oh, the entire architecture probably the most important part of the functions commission nearby and bottom and basically it more or less in the pocket of the americans. they have a default position, which is a, if we don't have a chair pin or something, go with american a cultural loss from israel to, to, to it, to, you know, to the conflicts around the world. how we handle the advocate advocate right now. what's happening in africa, we are seeing the motion to discover real new cold war. you know, you have these 3 countries in the center of the saw how much it, because if i said my going now friends of russia who have completed rejected french, you on western germany, you know, i'm, the world is changing and i think the european union,

you know probably is going to do the only sense it can possibly do under such laura with a new unclear and more better kind of small in river. and trump, which has to input a small tars. so you're going to have a trade which isn't the image is actually negligible, and that's why let's go his writing about this because he storage. but that's the them to us. we can look at it because they're all, there are no other default positions that gentleman may have run out of time. but george, i think you agree with me that the colonial power is just can help but flex their muscles. it just that's their default position. ok, all right gentlemen, what i think my guess in budapest and americans, we want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time. remember, i'll stop rules the today and the new and never done before. we trigger the general escape. that means

national governments come into the economy much the testing upset and they go take the job. i don't because at the job on the 22, the 11th and the i just wanted to come back and get it to us on the move to stand my son. he died if the message, the 2nd at sick on the status. i need you to turn, this is a full be ready to turn just the 75. i mean, so that interest at your home phone go off track of land. like i said, i'll likely to get very loud as the lot about you said through the through is through with this will be to pretty much the most important loans on

the hello and welcome to was a part 3 hours have always watched each other with a change of jealousy on his facility, but is it a number to build with china's reason diplomacy? ranking a number of long held your political assumptions. you would pay the way for a room where read means not only might is right,