the, the, [000:00:00;00] the option or time cn, welcome back to going underground rule gusting around the world from dubai in the u . a, as a global south proposed rule just brick summit, tomorrow marks 76. he is in c, i in bricks in the one that's independence from britain. the now most populous country in the world would re gain sovereignty, but also be politicians 76 years ago today in violence that would kill window displays tens of millions and years come a long way since then. now the 3rd largest economy by bbc in the top 5 along with

russia, china, and the usa. but now in the years on the rise, what threats are facing a journeyman now from its capital. new jelly is one of india's most famous politicians and intellectuals, indian national congress, m p, and former of the secretary general of the united nations. doctor strategy for to thank you so much for coming back on his ration as he didn't become president of the congress policy. i thought you're going to go and clinch that by the time that you an extra ongoing undergrads. i should that you just said it was a failure design. during the visa, i have been a since you haven't been the most successful news in the history of come respond to your directions, which i suppose is, is a kind of modest consultation. what else to pass away the at the bottom of was a lot of strong. sure. it will happen one day before we get to independence. i better just quickly ask you because the world is looking at these. yeah. what would biden's ending? victoria newland down to the i'm a a and a lot of people talking about these. yeah, because it's

a source of uranium for nuclear weapons when you think about 25 percent going to the u. b r as well to the former indian indian on voyage. and he just said as well as in his relations with these air concerned, the overall relationship is not going to be damaged by that much warranty. plastic response, then say paris or washington talking about full scale invasion then? yes, i think you'll probably be getting some of those that are supposed be right. that is a basic relationship with uh, with these. yeah. and indeed, with most doctors and effort cups, i send it to be free of its, of its own democratic credentials and convictions. as attended by lodge street to avoid the kind of sort of motor lising the western countries of nations with african countries do possibly be causing the focus on national interest. and partially because in depths, i think has realized that sometimes different standards would need to be applied in situations in which countries have to govern themselves as best they can go to what's best they can middle of necessarily match the standards. if you'd like to

set the well, well, some, some of the same revolution promising the revolutionary government as more democratic credentials then the us, the nato backs one uh, the preceded hits. so who knows who gets a go to to be sure exactly what the credential largest. yes, i think we'll have to seats as they settled down. there is also as you know, the legend demands for wagner. really, the most of the group to be involved in the right, no sizes are coming in all that takes the direction of the government and, and how they behave. i would also remain to be seen and we've seen what is a big c i a basic needs. yeah, they put an offer $1000000000.00. what into the into that area. so clearly this is a size of proxy war and i given it's 76, he is independence. and the brutal partition indian wants to fight it seems to me on this geo political stage with nuclear pockets done is finding with nuclear china off the time. and this is while the global south, including the jab, aquino, 5,

so including brazil, including the southeast asia, there will talk about this new world. india is fighting with pockets the with china . i think you being critical with the working with the rush or i mean don't you one russian energy is a new india is there in the indian political class. completely unaware of this new world order and it's breaking out nbc made one clean that on on these measures. are you saying this? i say, i think of being a little on just because lucky and bosses adversary's who have in both cases initiates its actions that have puts us in the obligation to defend ourselves. but having said that, nobody in, even though human, our investigators in these situations is contemplating anything by way of a new care engaged. so we're looking at what i've been struggling with the chinese mine establishes on the frontier the one of them was use enough for us to use 20 soldiers in one episode with the chinese. i will, buckets on the side, it's not being directory consultation with the box on the army,

but rather with militants and terrorist sent across from that side. so we, we had a long reassurance of new care conflict to that's what you're concerned about. certainly everyone with also bringing the heads wouldn't be concerned about the prospect a new k was, but it's not exactly human and notarized seems likely has been coming in. but that's what i will say, however, is that every country has a responsibility. it doesn't cost us national security and we're not exactly living in a safe neighborhood. we've government insurance on both side, 2 sides of us and we need to be a series of reality. and so to be careful. yeah, you see even the way you said belligerence on both side. sounds like the the old world give me i'm well, india is doing lloyd austin was there in india on june, june of this year, 5 year roadmap to count. it's showing the regina thing was there to hear about us a weapon. sales to india had combat land mobility surveillance intelligence. munitions basically is um, in the are a bit likely european union. i mean, the united states wants to buy in russia through your grain,

and you'll find china through india. and we've seen what it's done to the european union because germany is in recession. and many people are talking about europe's demise. india continues in this way. is it actually a vassal states on the 75th? and 6th, none of us are the, every one option is dealt with india knows that no one gets to use india to pursue any other objective of option. and as interest, i don't think that's in getting governments with a lot of except we use in 76 years since independence. and i can assure you that they would be absolute, say no tolerance for playing. anybody else has game is the rest of selling ourselves. that's because that's good business for them. and of course it happens to coincide with some of that g o strategic objectives. unaware of buying those items, just because we need to not because we are willing to pay anybody else has been there since the is that we are and the difficult situations are pretty simple. um suppliers itself running shorter weapon rates because of its water new crate. oh,

we have to diversify services and we go to the us content from suite dent is ropes and this is not surprising. uh, we also to, and i'm sure to other countries that used to be in this to be a little bit not might have spare parts for some of the russian ribbon. are you still huge for obviously that obviously the power of india and maybe in your constituency and carrier that will be saying you can spend the money more cleverly than the buying military arms. but i should also say the us state department, matthew miller, lincoln's man at the, in washington said, you know, the us regularly raises human rights concerns with india. we've done that in the past with india and we'll do that in the future just just for the past few weeks. this is what the united states things of india. it's a human rights violating country while simultaneously trying to make cash out of india by selling them uh, the general atomics of you avi's $2000000000.00. i think he just spent on it know to get better already shoes in indian agreeing. the opposition policies have been raising consistently,

but we don't go and asking western countries to do our work for us. we will raise issues as part of our response to rule as an opposition in democracy. and we will challenge our government. but um, but i think by large it's up to indians to solve their own problems, whether in relation to human rights or anything else, i can only policy political approaches. bottom policy, visa methods are the subjects for database within the indian context. but the reality, we are not particularly on either side of the political aisle welcoming, of foreign interference and these issues. well, you being critical of moody things too close to russia and isn't the point here that joseph bar l, the you the believe good give the european union foreign minister said your up as a god and the rest of the world is a jungle. i mean, it's obvious that your ex colonial rulers, those, those countries in europe because portugal was there in the india. i mean, they, they see, and here's

a cash cow. now as it's economically has risen in the past decades. and while navigating this moody is trying to navigate it and your last thing, we should be close it in washington as the congress body does the simplifying my position dramatically. first of all, let me stress and reaction to that comment that job maybe more comfortable, but just those are more interesting. so i think i'd be to be where, where people find that interesting challenges facing the number one. number 2, i did not say that the end is too close to russia. i fully understand that it was possible that a person, instead of a long time, i simply said that on the ukraine measure, that india had failed, especially initially to uphold principles that it is the starting to survive a 7 day change, including these sovereignty of states. the invited literacy of voters of the investment in of the visibility of use a force to settle international disputes. so i said, since i didn't hear you say one word about that when uh,

when off to the us who in care of they was shouting and killing 14000 people in east and ukraine. i didn't see you make one speech in the congress saying uh that the ukrainians were killing 14000 people in eastern new crew. why now are you re reciting to me, washington talking points. olivia, you were the un, isn't it? as a 2nd. i'll general one involves a member states of the united submissions, violating the sovereignty of another. the other involves a government of a recognized member stage of the un attaching a portion of what is seen internationally as its own territory. there is a difference and i think of these messages, countries like india, can you afford to surrender the principals because that surrender will and could be used against us in parts of our own country. such as, for example, gives me insights. i, i'm very consistent with my improved, so we need to stand by the principles before is always all fails for the last 7

decades. it's nothing against russia as a, as a friend, it's against russia's pacific action. it's like good people can do wrong things. this was a wrong thing and we had to point to that, but i will say that india has to fight its own battles. and india has to stay and up for its own security and which every responsible in doing citizen will support the government of india. we show a policy, they may be from as long as they take responsible actions to progress, to protect national security. we won't be critical where the governments are seen as immune, sufficiently muscular, as we find as being the case of the china border. well, obviously russia sees that the battle in your of is existential. and as a proportion of the population at the un general assembly, the majority of humanity didn't vote for the resolution condemning russia for until patients in,

in ukraine. and what you just said gives me the vision as well as the it month with the shanghai cooperation organization. the idea of a new security world does is really, i mean it's, it's more of the old world of game you're talking about india or is that while the rest of the global south or we'll talk about the new security architecture, hawking back babs, due to band doing and then on line movement as well in the, as you know, as, as in some ways been playing, it's all sides. instead, the su, chairing the g 20, i activated the brakes. uh it has, it has in many ways tried to keep all the channels of communication and of good relations. and i think that's and so where is this being a tough act to pull off which india so far managed to do with then to reside? and tegan, as anybody else is heading into the bridge, somebody in south africa in the spirit, very much of a phone participation. there are important issues before which,

including the possibility of its expansion, which fits into what you're talking about. the emergence of new configurations. while the same time, it has actually reaffirmed its role in the g 20 during its chairmanship. so i think, i think you have to give credit to india for not presenting in a way that can less it'd be tied cost on one side, all the other of what you're seeing as a global divide transfer. i'll stop you. the more from the indian national congress and being for the indian external affairs minister after this break, the we have this to boom on tenderness in the united states. we've exported it now to the world because the multinational corporations and we've been damaged to believe

that babies needs be nurtured and cared for and loved. and, and so you've got a whole bunch of traumatized people all over the world, post traumatic stress disorder that don't know how to use the as it creates much over 5 to cover offensive stalls. western leaders have made a remarkable rhetorical tippett whitening says proof of his already lost board. the secretary of state lincoln says russia has lost their narrative is a form of pseudo reality because making the claim your brain is wendy. is untenable . the welcome back to going on the garden. i'm still here with one of the news was famous politicians and intellectuals, indian national congress and beat up to shushing through joshua. you were talking about brakes in a few days time at the,

at the end of the month. in south africa. i do think good. you are right to criticize breaks for platitudes, rather than action. we had to go to neil for the goldman sachs boss who coined the term brake on the show. and he said the economy's have to be careful about how they say dispose of the debts in nature nation. you know, your opinion dance as, as the rise of brakes happens. if you do, you don't want to see the acceleration of the dumping of debts and this new bricks will daughter of the low rise ation. well, we don't really know how that's going to go, and i think there's been some conversation about this, but nothing's changing anything remotely like a formal shape that are individual governments that are taking individual actions. and i think governments are going to be guided by what they see as being their own interest makes extremely interesting issues going on in the, in the bridgestone tex. first of all, it's going to be very widely attended. i gather the invitations to attend the summit. i'm not just for the, the 5 meters,

the 5 member countries up to 67 meters across africa, left in america, in the caribbean. and on top of that, the 20 degrees, including the sectors of the united nations. chap, personally, the african union and the president has a new developing bank holding invited. so well, we are looking at the much larger sources context for breaks business the, those are going to be attending. and there's going to be open discussion of something that some members have been pursuing more heavily than other than that is expensive. but adding adding new members, now i know there's some skepticism by some there's more winning this for others, but i'm in order to suggest that tax breaks is boys for the neighbor lucian. that might indeed make it more relevant rather than less with this pleasant shoots. certainly have had problems in organizations like the commonwealth. i love the british that helps bruce come to for to go. that's ways has to find a certain clear relevance coming off of this, this version. i'm not sure. i'm not sure on the brick fleet is would like it to be

compared to the to the kweisi imperial coming. well, i'd say we've, we've, that is huge and that's why i reminded me of that. we've, we've had little on this show brazil, obviously taking a big lead to be russia massively involved in this new diesel arise ation, the world. china very much involved. south africa, there was a recent conference in st. petersburg, talking about the close to us between the african nations away from the i m f and will banks and again, and again, it isn't the i that's the india. that's the problem is because it has problems with china. you're talking about the fact that you should basically be condemning rusher over you grain. and i'm not sure what the, what you want to say about south africa and brazil is india and hope this is not a bit of a problem. yeah, this is actually a very good relationship with both of us, again, brazil, and indeed there is a separate organization of the 3 of them. gold himself, endeavors of south africa,

which is actually got some of his own developing projects going on and dates, perspective countries, us out every day is the smallest rich country as a globe both in terms of population and perhaps in terms of the size of the economy but they were the 1st beneficiaries of expansion when britain became bruce. and i would argue that now with a group that accounts for more than 40 percent of the population and about 26 percent of the global economy out there is the emergence of what everyone sees as an alternative forms for countries um, or to develop new diplomatic channels which indeed offrey updates traditional dominant western pods. and i think that, you know, we've been seeing, and we've been hearing a lot of talk of the decline into increasing get a relevance or some, what's the address of a normal line movement breaks? could be the nucleus of something that's, that's the, in a sense is a successor to the, on the line move much, not as large. and as i'm really is on the line,

much about perhaps capable of more focused engagement. i would say that as long as countries like brazilian india, i have the kinds of use that have and i've seen is having the, the credit ability in the clouds that have um, uh no one is going to choose brakes or just being a cash sport to russian and chinese infants, but i will have to agency, i think the how will these things go? what comes out of each the break? somebody's um, i think ups. yeah. the lot of questions, questions. some of the i googled your ballistics are very important, but there will be discussions on trade. the discussions on a china is major leap on infrastructure developments in many of the british countries. i think i think we're going to have to see some, some pretty solid progress coming off of this, this metering including on depression of expansion because there are 20 sweep ending up positions near bricks, images. and i think that again is something that is bound to be of some concern a to just our members in brazil has been opened these capital, for example,

of enlargement. india has been surprising that has more welcoming and, and we know that we know that russia and china have been quite keen on seeing some new members coming in. um china, i think, is obviously the main driver for expansion of bridge. so i think there's, there's a lot of questions. yeah, a lot of possible trends we love to see, i would imagine as a mobile unites brazil. i mean, luna was obviously imprisoned because of a defacto us back who he said. so in this show, we know what russia thinks of washington, we know what presented things of washington. we know what china thinks of washington and the google vessels dates of your and we know what south africa thinks you trust them, don't you? i mean, you and the congress body of india seem to trust the united states and european union countries as a, as nations that you're going to do masses of arms deals with and attempt to side

with what, why is india still? you're exaggerating the role, that honest plays and all this is a useful element, but it's by no means dominant. none of these countries is principally, for example, not from none of these countries as the principal elements in the relationship of lloyd austin was there. as i said on june, a 5 year roadmap for india for you, i mean the 0 um, from the united states coming to indian 20 way then a $20000000000.00 that started because instead of guessing, but we believe we needed, which frankly, i would be more or more into spend similar we have ups assessment. why do you think it'll work? why do you think american homes will work? because it's currently being blown to pieces in the training, but battlefront as well as far as your notes. some of the media say exactly the opposite. that is the russian ups that have not been really great advertisement for the weapons supplies. i, i'm not a ministry man. i'm going to stay away from that,

but i've seen both both kinds of arguments and more, more to the printer does seem as a russian stocks as a piecing with each passing day. they will when you print, making them less and less likely to be able to live and supply a more rep agreeing most parents, i think we certainly need to diversify all sources. i want to stress that india has always tried to preserve its own sense of autonomy by maintaining good relations with all sides and to maintain the channels of communication as well as on sales, as well as trade with all sides. um, even with china, even off to china can 20 of us. so just a trade relationship has actually gone up, which this may, some of us. but it also points to the fact that this is an increasing range of dependent road when it comes to trade. and commerce, and no one can afford to beats finicky about school and was encouraged with. so all of these things i have to say, wait till you're referring to the us sanctions. i mean, penny, the united states and nato countries. i'm not happy with india buying. i think more

energy from russia than ever before in the past few days. so you'll complete before the how they see it as breaking their sanctions, the you on so as to be trading with russia. yes, and i would say that as far as treatment rush is concerned, it isn't into is national interest. but i would argue that one might be overstating . oh, i'm happy the wisdom countries over this. because, you know, russian already goes into the mix of all the videos in both of the oil which has and refined and india and the surplus is sold to the us and the u. k. anyway. so really ready, countries that have sanctioned russia are indirectly benefiting from russian oil once for 5 months. it's your find it in this is rose up. do you have the effect of the with the india buying russian or stabilizers one of the prices? because if not, it would be adding to the number of countries competing for the risk of was or is, or, or in supplies. and that would drive the price is up with the pump for consumer as an america britain and the rest of your. so you're looking at a broad picture, i think you would genuine,

you have to understand that what he is doing is not in fact uh isn't. why wouldn't turn it around and say just it is in the interest of the west as well as of india. i was a restaurant of not yeah that, that isn't the regularly coverage on the us and european television channels. what you just said that i was not sure what i was ask you about him wrong. com. it was on this show daily. detailed washington's role in his over the role as he saw as he . so it is a washington capitalized to, i mean, the closest uh its, uh, india is coming to washington directory affecting uh, uh, your region and the problems on the geo political problems of face india today. no, i'm quite sure they investigate hands off on the box on situation. we believe it's just fall apart. kasanya used to work out for months themselves. we all know that, whereas other countries, you can say that the state has an audio in buckets on the, on the has

a space and no head of government has been able to survive so far in the 76 year as an existence. it means that head of government has folded the photo really. so in every case as in design, easy coexistence between the civilian leadership and the ministry. i think the side of the time the ministry has ruled, the country directed. and the rest of the time is really the country in directory by controlling who gets to be prime minister. i don't think we have a dog even the sizes expression goes. and i certainly would not have told, expect any. and in a pharmacy agency or individual, a government lead us to interfere in the slightest way on. if i could stop in wrong, tom was the best friend of mine before he became prime minister. i'm very happy to come to him as one, but i, but as an indian, all i can do is sit back and watch and see what happens. well, but as, as, as the process plays itself out in a neighboring country. i think most indians want to see a stable buck, the sun because instability in bucket stuff is bonded to spill over one way or the other and talk about how that stability is ensured. who by and was looking at the

helm is really nice in. 1 hands, most of the big and racial simply watching risk. well, pockets on, traditionally, always close to china. do you think that and then i looted to visit info one that the united states will use india against china over to i want i don't think india is right. so being used by anybody ever. i don't think any country and so far and 76 is where you said that before. but i mean if, if the american warships it down there, which side is indeed going to be on? it's just going to layoff the motion stage to be involved in insights. with china and india as problems with china or the land border, they don't know american troops in india and uh your talking about a geostrategic. if you'd like just the way people in the back rose, i'll suggest broad. i'm looking at the big picture where we are unfortunately engage our bibles eyeball with the chinese is on the snow, you race of them others and it's on the lab, then it's got nothing to do with the american war search. okay. and they're

american soldiers all around india. it has to be said, we just saw and there's no india saw there around india. if india continues to disobey a v, i say that kind of rules being given to your p and countries as to what to do in terms of foreign policy and how to trade and who to sanction i, i don't know whether you believe by them was behind the north stream uh, bombing at do you think you will ever come to be threatened in the, in bigger ways than just the state department in the past few days and you are human rights allows the a visit. i didn't need to solve completion, but i will say that if it ever comes to this really hard to take care of also, i'm not somebody who wants to buy from is going to threaten us at the moment. we are aware of the existing threats and i've identified a couple of them. and then we hope to diffuse that. but we are not going to be making foreign policy also fits,

nor are we going to be making it out of ours and complacency we will keep on our toes. we will certainly protect our own security interest and we will ensure that our strategic autonomy, which we've generously safe, got into 76 is, is not done by any of our foreign policy decisions. i think that's a offense summary over at both the governments and the opposition would stand on this line of question dr. treasury through abbey, india de. thank you or well, it is tomorrow, the 16th of august option, but us, thank you very much in advance. so that's our independence day. thank you. that's over the show. we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday. but until then, you can give it to us by what last, which will meet you if it's not sensitive in your country and add to our channel going underground tv on rumbled com to what's new and old episodes of going undergrad. so you don't set

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[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to wells far as, as a box. so below this principles essential to many ancient belief systems are almost forgotten in this day and age postulates that social conflicts will inevitably, liz, wanda, reflection in our individual souls, vice versa, our daily joys and struggles invariably shaped the societies for leaving. would that be mine? at heart, what can truly make the world a better place? to discuss it, i am now joined by adoption and wise professor of psychology and merits. at the university of hilton dumped and co officer of restoring the kingship,