[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the below and a welcome across stock were all things are considered non funeral about as a cranes much over hyped counter offensive stalls. western leaders have made a remarkable rhetorical pivot binding says poor his already lost the war. the secretary of state blinking says russia has lost their narrative is

a form of pseudo reality because making the claim ukraine is winnie, is untenable. the to discuss these issues and more and joined by my guess martin j america. she's an award winning journalist and commentator. and in budapest we bustle, jordan, samuel, we use a pod cast where the gabble, which we thought on youtube and locals are a gentleman house that builds and the fact that music can jump any time you want, that i always appreciate it or it's good george, in budapest it's, it's really a remarkable watching the course of this complex and how the west has changed its rhetorical focus, like the narrative of every everyone wants to support you. great of course is going to win. um, because it has um, the, the moral spirit. you know, the current job because of the training and soldier in society. oh, the responsible states have had a lot of books. ukraine is already was in the 1st few weeks ago. okay. and then, and, you know, as long as it takes,

okay. and now over the last guy would say 2 weeks, so, well, you know, the of the premium, so just ball in there, all the borders that nato gave them in the train and, you know, and then biding says, well, the book is already lost. you know, there's, they've already lost what, so they're trying to book and it now say to me, whatever happens that black and white, it's not as false. george? yes, the question that's, that's always the american motif. the only one of the ally, you know, who was the united states, the pictures is wagon. it always turns out that it's just not really worthy of, uh, american, the health and supposed to be, you know, we have that the south in the me is where it goes to useless. you know, and then you know, we had the great is a, in the, in the 1st of will were useless. the ask any is we use was everybody's always useless. and so there is this theme life i already you bring it in. i think, well, it's a little bit much, i mean, you have a photo of it, is anybody? it is but 70 is a and you're telling us that we're not fighting properly. you know what, you know,

you get a bradley, bradley gun in the back back and fight alongside those. but it doesn't work as a well, we don't really want to do that. so yeah, i mean, the, the visible sorts of, uh, confusing messages that are coming out from uh, the administration. but there are also these confusing messages. but other coming out about the some go to negotiations that are going on in the background. um, no into that. that'd be in the number of stores, the stores and like nbc, um about these negotiations, x u. s. officials talking to ty level uh, russians and then um we, we, we, we now have another story about this. uh and the go to i, i know buying it i don't think it was this is, these are serious because ultimately the rule that is going on is good for

the united states. the united states isn't losing anything. and, and it is, the russians are dying ukrainians of mine. i don't see any incentive. the honest um the, the united states to the, to bring it this doing in so doing the, the, the, the stories that got a wishful thinking. well, this is what i would do a borrower, a rational person, which is true. but i don't think that that's necessarily how the, by the administration is thinking. it's such an interesting way to phrase that because the ultimate goal is okay, maybe ukraine isn't going to win, but it can still keep fighting martin. i mean it's, it's an interesting thing here is that is what you know is a man the outcome. will there be will be a negotiated outcome, but some new thing to that's making it into the narrative. but in the meantime, in the meantime, us is not going to pursue any kind of negotiations or whatnot. just for the reason that george said, i mean, even though it's been a lot of money, a lot of taxpayer money. i mean, this is a, a conflict against russia on the cheap martin guys. i'm going to disagree with both of you. i'm really,

i'm really sorry. i think i think joe just wrong. i think that arisen incentive but and 6 to to stop is will i think he's starting to wake up to the realities that he called ron in the, in this is re election campaign. i'm starting from next somebody just called face low just particularly blue complexes and have this in mind the living and to really see the non here hang on here. i think it's pretty obvious that the drum base may agree with that, but i think you would still agree with this is very much a bi partisan endeavor. i mean, getting an inspector general. i mean, that was by far to sit in the senate. okay. no, we're not going to happen because the price of the buying me doesn't want it. that was by part of said, okay, they keep going to but i say we're living in a, we're living in a scenario too. i don't know, realities we're living in a truman show kind of a movie says web i, you know, on the, on the face of it, do you have officials like could be, and others who us thing you know, um,

in the most ancient and then when the new tons of law suite, there was some back pedaling list of admissions that was not feeling very well. but then we should hang in there and we should push all reserves as though you came, was up to the front line, a disaster, this tax exam bite and saying pensions lost the war. how many people actually bull into the, you know, think what's going on on the power though to, to tackle george's assertion, had only thing was going on on a power level and secretaries, i think there are tools going on because i think the legend does want to get out of this, well, i really do think he does. and i think one of the things been troubling me about this. um this uh this, that in this scenario, all of your findings on that, i'm going to show you, let's think about that. how does that happen? how do we get into that situation? the 1st place out of the best miniature brands in the pentagon, in january of this year or december, did not clam the scenario and say, hey guys, what's going to run quite low and about may of june,

should we not make preparations for it now, i'm sure they did, i'm sure they contacted the button administration and they didn't get very clear on so from the buttons administration. but to tackle this, if you wanna just supply the things with the munition even to the very easy you don't even need to use your own. american stokes are plenty of allies around the world. they're playing stuck close around the world. yeah, it doesn't even need to be american where you could, i didn't buy chinese onto it, so don't i don't buy into this, then you're going to run it. i'm going to should i think they will let, i think, i think they were allowed to fall into this pay because i really do believe the board and bought some of the role. and i really do believe in the, the political commentators. uh it is okay. and it does the fact that they couldn't plan for this doesn't surprise me. i think they believe that the sanctions would have done the job. and them, you know, and good story here. but the kind of go and go back to george. but george, it doesn't really matter because is you, ross is already lost, the more that's the new narrative. okay. so, i mean, it was,

we did everything we could do. you just as you said, you know, it's liskey and his people. i mean, you know, we, we, you know, nothing about your claim without your brains, they're doing their own thing here. i think that you know, the business going on the cheap here, and then of course, blame the use of the and then the early the europeans didn't step up. george, they just didn't do enough. ok. i think there's plenty of ways for them to rationalize which is like the hunter bite and story if they got to have that. um, agreement go through. they say it's spoken to that is over no more investigations. we don't know how they, they live in the pseudo reality, george, but i think so, i think that the, this provides them with an escape hatch that if things go wrong, then to say what it was really the brand new and sole, but full full of they didn't take our advice and again they, they misuse the, the web and really we gave them, you know, a by 5 to many shells. and it was around a, i, a, i'm actually not buying into the story that they're running out of shows. i mean with this happens in every will, every what we hear about, oh the sure there's

a shortage of uh, off hillary shows a show, did you mind me? they said this during the world will one that was a big, big issue and well well, well, hey, we're running out of, um, uh, auto rate. what, what are we going to do about this? so the, the question that is, is what's the incentive for the united states to, to bring this to an end. i'm not buying this thing about the, the us, the likes of the us selection is like, it's a long way off. many ways, it's the domestic issues that the privilege there is more or less a consensus among most the candidates that, hey, this is a good rule and then we should keep it going with true about with trump. so i, you know, i don't think biden is worried about the electric by the, is worried about getting into a direct shooting hole with russia. i think that's a different issue. so in biden said, no, do nato membership with ukraine. i mean, he did it because a, if you brain is joins nature, where on the,

which we're journey just reinforces that this is the way that they buy ministration . just by doing this work, we're going to let them do all the fighting for us in, in the, in the deductible on the market. it says they get not having ukraine in nato and get, get, gets the dotted states again, off the hook. ok, we're not responsible for that country security. ok, discrete, they have the best of all possible worlds here, which in the then means bit destruction. it'd be crane the very purpose of this policy was the police rush it not your brain mark. so there's another theory which spring founded about which i comp claim credit for, which is another reason why i didn't refuse to let the grant. and so nature is to keep the as a bargaining chip. so when you finally do, when do funding negotiate with the russians? you go something quite strong on your side, but to take george's point, i don't think it's exclusively. i don't think it's only the buttons as worried about elections and how you sell it. was this massive, unprecedented amount of ministry spending in a country that probably 99 percent of americans call fine to the map of the world,

i think is more than that, i think is getting increasingly worried about china. and i don't think you can handle china any drain both on the same plate with storm policy f ups. you know, that a bummer used to was used to critics him with, you know, we should never forget that quote from, from about the never underestimate, binds ability to f things up. i think he's talking about foreign policy. so i think that with showing a threat with cheese, you know, sounding else um, delivering signals which are more robust and more politicos every single day and basing on the drum and the tension building up the tile. stating there is a, a need for the bike and administration to look for an offer around. and i think they're all to what's going on. i think i wouldn't be to so, but i think that this is deliberate. i think since about december or january to do these things were deliberately allowed to one of them initial to create this load because you called them negotiations with the russians when you also rent a 1000. 02000, a $155.00 millimeter shows after you have to, you know, look for

a natural pool, is a natural impact so low in the world. and i think that's from to the moment right now to do that. so i think we should, we shouldn't just the internet. all right, we're enjoying all by triple. why would the russians in a meeting gauge negotiations at all? any other than a back channel thing that we're not gonna use nukes, we could all agree. we're not going to do that, but other than that, what would the russians be interested in? go ahead martin. well, i think um the, the comments, but edward looked fuck recently, we're very interested in his theory. the, the great do you have, let's go and let us know that his theory is that the russian central bank go home to his subterfuge and look things over good. remember, we got inflation on the control weekly inflation, a. so dream level that most europeans cannot even spent as low as about, but account last forever. so there's an economical aspect to this whole thing, which is the, you know, the situation that putins in which is quite comfortable is not something that you

can, you can banks, you can bank on forever, that has to be a longer strategy. so there are incentives the, i think for russia to look up some of the issues that i saw, the same video you did. i found them seem to be utterly completely unconvincing. do you do as losing trainees? looks like the the kids are the, was possibly some sort of, but general communication going on between buns and noticing the we have to go to a hard break. we're going to talk about the, the back channel. in the 2nd half the program. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in,

we're going to come right back to stay with our team. the or the started in 1983. find father on your website. that's all exactly the same as a kid does. when he goes out in the lake and the communities cushion for parentage with iran, real nice families calendars for a really long time. my mom was pregnant with me still long winding and i grew up on long line. but i've been having this issue since probably 1978. that's my 1st year

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let's go back to george in budapest. okay. george, let's look at it from the other side. you know, because usually i see these western the lead so that there's always kind of this fantasy unicorn wish list you know, is a, you know, and the zip you what company is pam and take more. there's a, there's an interest of instability in broad signal, which is like, i don't know where they get this information from and how they draw these conclusions. because, you know, you and i have been with martin, you know, we were, we're avidly covering how people cover russia and it's a self fantastically wrong. most of the time is that when he really paid much attention to it. but now let's get down to brass tacks, something important this conflict in ukraine. i still to this point irrespective of the interest rate. okay. i don't see why russia has any incentive at all ever. we'll have a couple of sites in the dumbass, you know, and brush. it'll have to give up. it's a brand new, it's and it will have to accept when you have a form of nato membership. well,

why would run rushing the initiated discomfort because it wasn't getting any of those things. why wouldn't change it's mine now? george? so i think exactly. now i've seen the incense is a tool and in fact if it was to be a settlement now on the terms of which um, low black advocates and that interview referred to by nonsense um this will be a complete failure for russia because essentially, uh, russian would have to be giving up things that it actually had prior to the style of the, um, of the, the several special another job or i should think of them that have to agree to holding plebiscites. and you know, we know how the way these plebiscites work. i mean the, the that it's always very questionable once made that gets involved in a plebiscite. so roughly what happens the giving up is gonna end up with less then it had the 18 months ago. so i don't see any reason. certainly built in conduct survive. so if we're talking about the bite and then the election,

i mean open conducts of, i a such a, such a, a humiliation. but there is an agenda always with, with this kind of talking to, particularly with somebody like look like, look, track. essentially, once a war is trying to, i mean the, you know, that, that stays obsession. i mean, he's always been an obsessive sort of fellow, and he's not his new obsession. is china. and what, how does he, how do we fight china? what would the flight did using american boys? i mean, that's literally plan of any of the neo cons, what we're going to use russia and that's suite any agenda behind this as well? although so, i mean this guy, colby, is a ubiquitous presence on, on fox news. also china, china, china, on the plan here is alright, let's bring this thing into your brain. so, and, and then let's use russia against china. this is going to be all kind of father against china, much as it was originally when the nato expansion, the idea behind it. and george cyrus explained that they were going to use the spirit bins as count on father against russia. so we're going to use russia that's

gone father against china. well, i am assuming russian understands that that's the plan, but in the woods and other things that go to but it was, of course the, let me again with this kind of looking at western fantasies. okay. i mean, there, there is no evidence whatsoever that kind of scenario can possibly play out in a storage. riley points up. why do you, why do you, why would brush or give up anything that it doesn't have to give up, okay? it may. and then plus, if you look at the long term, if the impact of this war is having a other than the, the, the, for people of ukraine and then the, all the soldiers that are dying is it in europe. it's, it's being the industrialized. now, considering everything that's been said and done, but since the end of the cold war fly would have russia throw anyone in the west, the lifeline. i mean, i, i just don't see it. i mean, there's so many things that have been said that can't be on said, and what about the sanctions and all of that? do you think the americans will ever retract any sanction?

oh, it's very well under any circumstances. so what is rush to get out of its own has gotten is about a pack of lies and deceit. sorry, that's my opinion. go ahead or, but if we're going to dismiss, let's, let's comments about russian inflation. then there's not much left on the table in terms of what could be attracted to the gym, which is he's an international state. he does think, but he thinks of a well doesn't think of the region. what are you good enough for good. the last week was very interesting, but we didn't get too much attention from west of me to read a whole lot of that. a lot of did uh, a condescending commentary, which was completely unfounded. okay. i, i thought i would get totally smooth. it's the inability to read the say they don't, can't read the room. i'm sorry about, go ahead. i think, i think does one piece. i think the other, the does. i don't think he wants to even envisage innovating them. that part of your claim is, i don't know if you're still interested in the,

in the eastern european soviet motor, which didn't work. just as the british colonial model. it didn't work. you know, people failed to understand or feel to acknowledge, you know, all right. and history, why the present, but let's just because it couldn't afford to run anymore. it was like owning an expensive jag of the call that you couldn't afford to fill out. you know, i'm, i think the same argument applies to the end of the soviet union. and those countries, he doesn't love that so relationship, that's a resentful this for me. finding people he's not interested in, in, in the baby. but i think he thinks of a bigger picture, you know, and to go back to bite and on. but in the side there, there was the other issue about but, but i think you would like to end the war and maybe concentrate on the china threat . not necessarily going to what would china, but the use of china is a mess. if deflection is because a, a couple of emotions ever this summer be so stupid tablets, laptops should be good to imagine the meetings he had in um, in care of in 2015,

2016 with the um, the rest of the present to discussing the money and the bribes, and i'm about now to get this ukrainian energy company. um, uh you know, teamed up with an american bonus so they could have like ago i'll buttons, vice president, courage. i have the chief procedure in ukraine that kicked out what she did. it could've imagined any of this coming out. and, you know, and it's extremely how it's just continuing, you know, just this week. it's now being sun. that's all i have no way to kind of be in a western media is kind of shrugged his shoulders and say ok, all right, we'll go to the report and we believe the sol so strong. and there was study discussions about the $5000000.00 brian to each of them. we haven't got a smoking gun. we haven't got the receipts from the bank because miss martin, don't you think it's, it's kind of interesting. it's actually in the you bring that up because, um, you know, be because of this growing scandal here, the, by the administration decide what, which is already lost of all, or, you know, what's the page move on? okay. that's what they're doing. they're trying to, you know, this is

a success. we are, our policy has succeeded. this is brandon. i mean, is it but testicle to, to say it out loud, but that's what they're trying to convince people to, to stewart george played these, which it's, it's interesting is that they, they want this, but they still continue to think that they can bleed russia. we have to remember everyone. victoria nolan was temporarily promoted. ok. i mean for the space those looking for an offer. is that the right person to go to george? well, that's an excellent point to be the executive. that's why i'm not buying the story of the, the, the, the back channel negotiations because this is the person that was not only the most a logical in the state about the machine has been the driving force of the obama, by the policy toward ukraine, obviously, was a central figure, it was never blinked and i mean it was for so to make the, i actually did a secretary of state that, that is

a signal that there isn't going to be any change g as in go to a preside over any change or a policy. s o biden's domestic problems. well, we are, you know, what, what do leaders do when they have major domestic problems? they saw on zillow escalate, was escalate complex. as of there? nobody's talking about the button when way we've got something bigger to talk about . but we had a whether you praying, maybe live in the syria. there's the downside of that is if you forget you crate in china, if the heads were biden's domestic problems, the unfortunately were rapidly running out of time. but i want to bring up something that i thought was interesting, is it responsible state craft likes just um sell themselves as i thought above, i would say, and i'm not going to mention the author's name because it's not really important to

my point. but in one of their articles the last few days, it's very him, he says like every one, once you praying to win and rush it to lose this token, the come from a think tank. you know that when c instead. yeah, i thought they were a lot of smart people. i want you create the wave of the heart of everyone. what kind of arrogance is that more? it's unfortunate as the subs poignant reminds of the times that we're living and it is a detachment from the inside democratic process of western countries. we don't care anymore about what our citizens think. we barely even consider their views even once every 4 or 5 years at the elections and the situation that we have in person with the labor and conservative while you're having america, we, republicans and democrats, you know, people are finally beginning to wake up. it doesn't matter which party you work for anymore. you know, it's all part of the corrupt religious system. and their main purpose is to fold keep themselves in positions, giving us open jobs. and secondly, computers and disrupt the public away from ever asking any remotely intelligent questions. and i,

i'm getting sick to death. i'm reading articles and the british press of them the daily telegraph about what's going on and ukraine, and the russian dictate to kidnapping sounds. the children, you know, and then the so essential to read what was expected or could, when general is read, other articles may see those words and the 3rd paragraph, you know, you're working in a b, s of not b s or somebody also also, it's really interesting to george right now. well, so when it comes to russia they, they never use the word led just anymore. the website just, i just assumed, okay, so this of, according to of the report this are assigned to misconduct. no, it's just, it's a, it's a established fact. ok for that matter, we can get the source the, it's always a given as a, as a question on the question. fact, the rest of the structure blew up by dialing some civilian of the sides. um,

but when they report a russian denial, then they say when you of times was it was unable to independently from the russian play. and so there's always, you know, whatever the rest of the day, anything when we were not able to confirm this claim. but apparently your brain is going to complain whatever they want. but let's know, need to verify anything it's but those are then brought in this idea of uh, whatever boot is, isn't it? they put in full sleep claimed. so it is likely the journalist just inserts his own opinion, full sleep claim because they were at the and i was full. so what, what, what do you, what are you basing this on what all the western media has in real time fact checking the, the back, searching as they're writing right away, i guess, go to you, martin, go ahead. what we are on is the lensky sense, when you leave here, those 2 words from the bbc or any of the mainstream, british brothers, you know, you know, your into the truman shows are and where, but so really, very little. we have enough to stick to, you know,

why would you let facts done in the way of a good story? that's been the policy but several, now, you know, people don't know. they don't know the propaganda machine that's been created by the americans. a kid, they don't know that most of the story is the same, completely fictitious, and this, this has no effect on the latest sex. the company i've always said they have a white board and they just go from the next story. the next story is all planned in advance. gentleman that's all the time we have one, i think my guess americans and booted as the one thing our viewers for watching us

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the the, so i like to take the say the apple doesn't fall far from the drain. hold especially for me and the other one, reading consolidation and privatization of the new england fishing industry has made it nearly impossible for fishers working on a small scale to make a living. trim rider is one of the few. jake, both fishermen remain back then we go on