russel planning, so invades another case of the pot, calling the kettle, black, and that's are up for now. but coming up a former member of indian national congress discusses the countries of growing size to the u. s. as anti china alliance. the upcoming brick summit add more. i'm going underground. don't go far the i'm option or times. yeah. and welcome back to going underground rule. gusting around the world from dubai in the u. a. as a global south proposed rule just brick summit, tomorrow marks 76. he is in c,

i in bricks in the one that's independence from britain. the now most populous country in the world would re gain sovereignty, but also be politicians 76 years ago today in violence that would kill window displays tens of millions and years come a long way since then. now the largest economy by bbc in the top 5 along with russia, china, and the usa. but now in the years on the rise, what threats are facing adjoining me now from its capital. new jelly is one of india's most famous politicians and intellectuals, indian national congress, m p, and former of the secretary general of the united nations. doctor strategy for to thank you so much 1st because you for coming back on this ration. so you didn't become president of the congress policy. i thought you're going to good clinch that by the time you an extra ongoing undergrads. i should that you just said it was us a very resign during the visa. i have been a, since you haven't been the most successful news in the history of come respond to your actions, which i suppose is, is a kind of modest consultation. what has to pack away and the at the bottom of was

a lot of strong short lap and one day before we get to independence, i better just quickly ask you because the world is looking at these. yeah. what with biden's ending victoria newland down to the i'm a a and a lot of people talking about these. yeah. because it's a source of uranium for nuclear weapons when nuclear power 25 percent going to the u. b. r as well to the former indian indian on voyage. and he just said as well as india is relations with these air concerned, the overall relationship is not going to be damaged by that much warranty. plastic response, then say paris or washington talking about full scale invasion then? yes, i think you'll probably be getting some of those as probably right. that is a basic relationship with uh, with these. yeah. and indeed, with most of these, an effort cups has tended to be free of its, of its own democratic credentials and convictions. as attended by lodge street to avoid the kind of sort of model arising the western countries of nations with african countries. i do partially be causing the focus on national interest and

partially because in depths, i think has realized that sometimes different standards would need to be applied in situations in which countries have to govern themselves as best they can go to what's best they can middle of necessarily match the standards that you'd like to set the well, well, some, some of the same revolution, thomas and the revolutionary government as more democratic credentials. then the us, the nato backs one uh, the preceded hits. so who knows who gets a go to to be sure exactly what the record is largest? yes, i think we'll have to seats as they settled down there is also, as you know, the legend demands for reg. know the, the most of the group to be involved in the right, no sizes are coming in. all that takes the direction of the government and, and how they behave. i would also remain to be seen and we've seen what is a big c. i a basic needs. yeah, they put an offer $1000000000.00. what into the into that area. so clearly this is

the size of proxy war and i given it 76. he is independence and the brutal partition indian wants to fight. it seems to me on this geo political stage with nuclear pockets, then it's finding with nuclear china off the time. and this is while the global south, including the jab, aquino, 5, so including brazil, including the south east asia. there will talk about this new world. india is fighting with pockets the with china. i think you being critical with the working with the rush or, i mean you one russian energy is a new india is there in the indian political class. completely unaware of this new world order and it's breaking out. look, let me see, may 1, see that on, on these measures? are you seeing this? i see, i think of being a little on just because lucky boss's adversary's who have in both cases initiates its actions that have puts us in the obligation to defend ourselves. but having said that, nobody in, even though human, our investigators in these situations is contemplating anything by way of

a new care engagement. so we're looking at what i've been struggling with the chinese mine establishes on the frontier the one of them was use enough for us to use 20 soldiers in one episode with the chinese. i will, buckets on the side, it's not being directly confrontational of the box on the army, but rather with militants and terrace sent across from that side. so we had a long reassurance of new care conflict to that's what you're concerned about. certainly everyone with also bringing the heads wouldn't be concerned about the prospect a new k was, but it's not exactly human and notarized seems likely has been coming in. but what i will say, however, is that every country has a responsibility to hook up this national security. and we're not exactly living in a safe neighborhood. we've government insurance on both side, 2 sides of us and we need to be a series of reality. and so to be careful. yeah, you see even the way you said belligerence on both side sounds like the, the old world give me i'm well, india is doing lloyd austin was there in india on june, june of this year,

5 year roadmap to count. it's showing the regina thing was there to hear about us a weapon. sales to india had combat land mobility surveillance intelligence. munitions basically is um, in the are a bit likely european union. i mean, the united states wants to buy russia through your grain and you'll find china through india. and we've seen what it's done to the european union because germany is in recession. and many people are talking about your demise. india continues in this way. is it actually a vassal states on the 75th and 6th, none of those are the, every one option is dealt with india knows i know and guess to use india to pursue any other objective of all sorts and, and as interest, i don't think that's indian governments with a lot of except we use in 76, we have since independence, and i can assure you that they would be absolutely no tolerance for playing anybody else's game is the rest of selling ourselves. that's because that's good business for them. and of course, it happens to coincide with some of that g o strategic objectives,

unaware of buying those items, just because we need to not because been willing to pay anybody else has been the truth, but is that we are and the difficult situations are pretty simple um, suppliers itself running shorter weapon rates because of its water new crate. oh, we have to diversify services and we go to the us content from soup. dent is ropes and this is not surprising. we also to, and i'm sure to other countries that used to be in this will be a little bit not might have spare parts for some of the russian ribbon. are you still huge? we see that obviously the power of india and maybe in your constituency and carrier that will be saying you can spend the money more cleverly than the buying military arms. but i should also say the us state department, matthew miller, lincoln's man at the, in washington said, you know, the us regularly raises human rights concerns with india. we've done that in the past with india and we'll do that in the future just in the past few weeks. this is what the united states things of india. it's a human rights violating country while simultaneously trying to make cash out of

india by selling them uh, the general atomics of you avi's $2000000000.00. i think you just spent on it know to get better already shoes in indian agreeing. the opposition policies have been raising consistently, but we don't go and asking western countries to do our work for us. we will raise issues as part of our response to rule as an opposition in democracy. and we will challenge our government. but uh, but i think by large it's up to indians to solve their own problems, whether in relation to human rights or anything else, or you can only policy political approaches, foreign policy. these uh, methods are the subjects for debate within the indian context. but the reality, we are not particularly on either side of the political aisle welcoming, of foreign interference and these issues. well, you being critical of moody things too close to russia and isn't the point here. the joseph bar l, the, you the believe good european union foreign minister said your up is

a god and the rest of the world is a jungle. i mean it's the only is that your ex colonial rule is those, those countries in europe because portugal was there in the india. i mean, they rang a see. and here's a cash cow. now as it's economically has risen in the past decades. and while navigating this moody is trying to navigate it and your last thing, we should be close it in washington as the congress body does under some video, simplifying my position dramatically. first of all, let me stress and reaction to that comment that god who is maybe more comfortable. but john, those are more interesting. so i think i'm ready to be where, where people find that interesting challenges facing the number one. number 2, i did not say that in this too close to russia. i fully understand that it was possible that a person, instead of a long time, i simply said that on the ukraine massa, that india had failed, especially initially to uphold principles that it has to sort of just stood by for

7 big change, including these sovereignty of states being violent but as the borders of the unit investment in of visibility of use a force to settle international disputes. so i said, since i didn't hear you say one word about that when the, when off to the us who in care of there was shelling and killing 14000 people in east and ukraine. i didn't see you make one speech in the congress saying uh that the ukrainians were killing 14000 people in eastern ukraine. why now are you re reciting to me, washington talking points. olivia, you were in the us and isn't it this 2nd general one involves a member states of the united submissions riding the sovereignty of another. the other involves a government of a recognized member stage of the un attaching a portion of what is seen internationally as its own territory. there is a difference and i think on these messages, countries like india, can you afford to surrender the principals because that surrender will and could be

used against us in parts of our own country such as, for example, if me is i, i, i'm very consistent with my approach, so we need to stand by the principles of your role is always off hills for the last 7 decades. it's nothing against russia as a, as a friend, it's against russia's pacific action. it's likely people can do wrong things. this was a wrong thing and we had to point to that. but i will say that india has to fight its own battles. and india has to stand up for its own security and which every responsible in doing citizen what supports the governments all being that we show a policy they may be from as long as they take responsible actions to progress, to protect national security. we won't be critical where the governments i've seen is immune, sufficiently muscular, as we find has been the case of the china border. well, obviously russia sees that battle in europe is existential. and as

a proportion of the population at the un general assembly, the majority of humanity didn't vote for the resolution condemning russia for until patients in, in ukraine. and what you just said gives me those vision as well as the month with the shanghai cooperation organization. idea of a new security world. does this really? i mean it's, it's more of the old world of game you're talking about india or is that while the rest of the global south are all talking about a new security architecture, hocking back pads due to band doing and then on line move with as well. in the, as you know, as, as in some ways been playing, it's all sides. it's chad. the su, chairing the g. 20 active and the brakes. uh it has, it has in many ways tried to keep all the channels of communication and of good

relations products, and i think that's and so where is this being a tough act to pull off which india so far managed to do well then turns out and tagging, isaac, anybody else is heading into the bridge, somebody in south africa in the spirit, very much of a phone participation. there are important issues before which, including the possibility of its expansion, which fits into what you're talking about. the emergence of new configurations. why are the same time it has actually reaffirmed its role in the g 20 during its chairmanship? so i think i think you have to give credit to india for not presenting in a way that can less it'd be type cost on one side. all the other of what you're seeing as a global device, especially for i'll stop you the more from the indian national congress and being for the indian external affairs minister after this break the,

the, the, the, the, the,

the welcome back to going on the garden. i'm still here with one of the news was famous politicians and intellectuals, indian national congress and beat up to shushing through a charging you were talking about the brakes in a few days time at the, at the end of the month in south africa. i do think good you are right to criticize breaks for platitudes, rather than action. we had to go to neil for the goldman sachs boss who coined the term brake on the show. and he says, economies have to be careful about how they say dispose of the debts in nature nation, you know, your p in data is as the rise of brakes happens, you don't want to see the acceleration of the dumping of data in this new bricks. well, the order of the dollar eyes ation, well,

we don't really know how that's going to go. and i think there's been some conversation about this, but nothing's changing anything remotely like a formal shape. the individual government sort of taking individual actions. and i think governments are going to be guided by what they see as being their own interest makes extremely interesting issues going on in the, in the bridgestone tex. first of all, it's going to be very widely attended. i gather the invitations to attend the summit. i'm up just for the, the 5 meters and a 5 member countries, up to 67 meters across africa, left in america, asia, and the caribbean. and on top of that, the 20 degrees, including the sectors of the united nations, which that person of the african union and the president has a new developing bank. i'm old and invited. so well, we are looking at the much larger sources context for breaks business. the, those are going to be attending and there's going to be open discussion of something that some members have been pursuing more heavily than other than that is expensive. but adding adding new members. now i know there's some skepticism by

some there's more willingness for others. but um, in order to suggest that jobs, bricks is boys for the never knew from that might indeed make it more relevant rather than less. so it was pleasant shoots, certainly have had problems and organizations like to come and roast. i love the british that helps bruce come to for to go. that's ways has to find a certain clear relevance coming off of this, this version. i'm not sure. i'm not sure on the brick fleet is would like it to be compared to the to the kweisi imperial commonwealth. but i say we, we use what that is huge and that's what i reminded me of we've, we've had little on this show brazil obviously taking a big lead to be russia massively involved in this new diesel arise ation world. china very much involved south africa and there was a recent conference in st. petersburg talking about the close to us between the african nations away from the i m f. and we'll banks again and again,

it isn't the i that's the india. that's the problem is because it has problems with china. you're talking about the fact that you should basically be condemning rusher over you grain. and i'm not sure what the, what you want to say about south africa and brazil is india and hope this not a bit of a problem. yeah, this is actually a very good relationship with both of us. again, brazil. and indeed, there is a separate organization of the 3 of them, both himself endeavors on south africa, which is actually a got some of his own developing projects going on and dates, perspective countries, us out every day is the smallest rich country as a globe both in terms of population and perhaps in terms of the size of the economy . but they were the 1st beneficiaries of expansion when britain became breaks. and i would argue that now with a group that comes to more than 40 percent of the population and about 26 percent of the global economy out, there is the emergence of what everyone sees as an alternative forms for countries um and to develop new diplomatic channels which indeed offrey updates traditional

dominant western pods. and i think the, you know, we've been seeing and we've been hearing a lot of talk of the decline into increasing get a relevance or some what's the address of a normal line. mobile brakes could be the new, clear, so something that's, that's the, in a sense is a successor to the, on the line move much, not as large. and as i'm really as non alignment about perhaps capable of more focused engagement, i would say that as long as countries like brazilian india, i have the kinds of use that have and i've seen is having the, the credit ability in the clouds that have um, uh, no one is going to choose brakes of just being a cash pool to russian and chinese infants. but i will have to agency. i think the whole these things go what comes out of the the bridge. somebody's um, the zip codes. uh, yeah. the lot of questions, questions, some of the i googled your ballistics are very important,

but they will be discussions on trade. they've been discussions on a china is major leap on infrastructure developments in many of the british countries. i think i think we're going to have to see some, some pretty solid progress coming off of this, this metering including on depression of expansion because there are 20 sweep ending up positions near bricks, images. and i think that's, again is something that is bound to be of some concern a to just our members in brazil has been opened the skeptical, for example of enlargement. india has been surprising that there's more welcoming and, and we know that we know that russia and china have been quite keen on seeing some new members coming in. china, i think, is obviously the main driver for expansion of bridge. so i think there's, there's a lot of questions. yeah. a lot of possible trends we love to see, i would imagine as a mobile unites brazil, i mean, lula was obviously imprisoned because of a defacto us back who he said. so in this show, we know what russia thinks of washington,

we know what presented things of washington. we know what china thinks of washington and the google vessels dates of your and we know what south africa thinks you trust them, don't you? i mean, you and the congress body of india seem to trust the united states and european union countries as uh, as nations that you're going to do masses of arms deals with and attempt to side with what, why is india still exaggerating the role? that honest plays and all this is a useful element, but it's by no means dominant. none of these countries is principally, for example, not from none of these countries as the principal elements in the relationship of lloyd austin was there. as i said on june, a 5 year roadmap for india for you. i mean the 0 um, from the united states coming to indian 20 way then uh, $20000000000.00 that started because they're selling guessing. but we believe we

needed, which frankly, it would be more or more into spend civil and we have ups assessment. why do you think it'll work? why do you think american homes will work? because it's currently being blown to pieces in the training, but battlefront. but as far as you know, some of the media say exactly the opposite. that is the russian ups that have not been over your grades advertisement for the weapons supplies. i, i'm not a ministry man, i'm going to stay away from that. but i've seen both both kinds of arguments and more and more to the printer does seem as it rushes, stocks, 100 piecing with each passing day. is that what, when you print, making them less and less likely to be a reliable supply of more weaponry. and most parents, i think we certainly need to diversify all sources. i want to stress that india has always tried to preserve its own sense of autonomy by maintaining good relations with all sides and to maintain the channels of communication as well as on sales, as well as straight with all sides. um, even with china, even off to china,

can 20 also just a trade relationship has actually gone up, which this may some of us. but it also applies to the fact that this is an increase in gains independent road when it comes to trade and commerce. and no one can afford to be finicky about who and walter trades wish. so all of these things i have to say, so it's a refers to the us sanctions. i mean, penny, the united states and nato countries. i'm not happy with india buying. i think more energy from russia than ever before in the past few days. so you'll complete before the how they see it as breaking their sanctions, the, the, you on, so as to be trading with russia. yes, and i would say that as far as traders rush is concerned, it isn't in does national interest. but i would argue that one might be overstating . oh, i'm happy the wisdom countries over this. because, you know, russian already goes into the mix of all the videos in both of the oil which has and refined and india and the surplus of sold to the u. s and the u. k. anyway. so really ready, countries that have sanctioned russia are indirectly benefiting from russian oil

once for 5 months. it's your find it in this is rose up. do you have the effect of the india buying russian or stabilizers water prices? because if not, it would be adding to the number of countries competing for the rest of was or is, or, or in supplies. and that will drive the price is up with the pump for consumer as an america britain and the rest of your. so you're looking at a broad picture, i think you would genuine, you have to understand that what he is doing is not in fact uh isn't. why wouldn't turn it around and say just it is in the interest of the west as well as of india. i was a restaurant of not yeah that, that isn't the regularly coverage on the u. s. and european television channels. what you just said that i lost the, you know, i was ask you about him wrong. com. it was on this show clearly detailed washington's role in his own withdrawal as he saw it. he. so it is a washington capitalized to, i mean, the closest to it,

it's india is come to washington directly affecting your region and the problems on the geo political problems of face india today. no, i'm quite sure the industry, it ends off on the buck hassan situation we believe is focused on use to work out amongst themselves. we all know that where is other countries you can say that the state has an offer in buckets on the, on the has the space and no head of government has been able to survive so far in the 76 year as an existence. it means that head of government has folded the father building. so in every case as in design, these equally existence between the civilian leadership and the ministry. i think the side of the time the ministry has rule, the country directed and the rest of the time is really the country in directory by controlling who gets to be prime minister. i don't think we have a dog even despises expression goes and i certainly would not have told expect any . and in a pharmacy agency or individual,

a government lead us to interfere and dislikes us 300 bucks, stuck in wrong ton was a best friend of mine before he became prime minister. i'm very happy to come to him as one but tough. but as an indian, all i can do is sit back and watch and see what happens. well, but as, as, as the process plays itself out in a neighboring country. i think most indians want to see a stable buck, the sun, because instability in bucket stuff is bonded to spill over one way or the other and talk about how that stability is ensured. who by and was looking at the helm is really nothing. 1 hands, nor should it be on racial simply watching with well, uh, partners sondra. additionally, always close to china. do you think then? and i eluded to visit the input one that the united states will use india against china over to i want i don't think india is right. so being used by anybody ever, i don't think any country is so fine. 76 is where you said that before, but i mean if, if the american warships with down the which side is indeed going to be on,

it's just going to layoff the motion stage to be involved in the indian sites with china. and india as problems with china or the land border, there are no american troops in india. you're talking about a geostrategic. if you'd like just the way people in the back rose, i'll suggest broad. i'm looking at the big picture for where we are. i unfortunately engage our bibles eyeball with the chinese is on the snow, you race of them others and it's on the lab, then it's got nothing to do with american mortgage. okay. and they're american soldiers all around india. it has to be said we just saw and there's no in the saw there around india. if india continues to disobey a v, i say that kind of rules being given to your p and countries as to what to do in terms of foreign policy and how to trade and who just sanction i, i don't know whether you believe by them was behind the north stream, uh, bombing at do you think, and he will never come to be threatened in the,

in bigger ways than just the state department in the past few days. and you are human rights allows the i wish i gave me just some completion, but i will say that if it ever comes to this really hard to take care of also, i'm not somebody who worries the buy from is going to threaten us at the moment we are aware of the existing threats and i've identified a couple of them. and then we hope to diffuse and, but we are not going to be making foreign policy for fifths, nor are we going to be making it out of ours and complacency we will keep on our toes. we will certainly project our own security interest and we will ensure that our strategic autonomy, which we've generously safe, got into 76 is, is not diagnosed by any of our foreign policy decisions. i think that's a offense summary over at both the government and the opposition would stand on this line of question dr. strategy through abbey india de type gear. well, it is tomorrow, the 15th of august option. but uh, thank you very much in advance. so that's our independence day. thank you. that's

over the show. we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday. but until then you can give it to us. why will i social media if it's not sensitive in your country and add to our channel going underground tv on rumble? don't come to watch new and old episodes of going undergrad. so you don't set the as the cranes much over 5 to counter offensive stalls. western leaders have made a remarkable rhetorical ticket. mine says print and has already lost the board. the secretary of state lincoln says russia has lost their narrative because the form of

pseudo reality because making the claim ukraine is wendy, is untenable. the need years to government is open to dialogue with equal watts as it seeks to resolve a stand off with the bloss and put it the end to escalating tensions in the region . also this hour the and r t crew gets exclusive access to the front lines of the republic for furious battles are under way. a 1st hand report from the ground coming up in a few minutes. but this is a piece of mars here, the martian now.