really never really that neutral and storm or aligned with the west, even allowing their agents to work against russia on their soil. so it's hardly surprising that they joined nato in a heartbeat and started spewing out conspiracy theories about russel planning to invade another pace of the pups calling the kettle black. all right, let's look at the news for now, but stay with us and back in about half an hour's time with much more the,

[000:00:00;00] the option or time cn. welcome back to going underground broadcasting around the world from dubai in the u. a is the global south prepares for august brick summit, tomorrow marks 76. he is in c, i in bricks in the one that's independence from britain. the now most populous country in the world would regain sovereignty, but also be politicians 76 years ago. today, in violence that would kill wound or displace tens of millions and here has come a long way since then. now the 3rd largest economy by pvp in the top 5 along with russia, china, and the usa. but now india was on the rise. what threats are facing adjoining me now from its capital new delhi is one of india's most famous politicians and

intellectuals, indian national congress, m p, and former of the secretary general of the united nations. doctor sachi through a thank you so much 1st because you for coming back on can is ration you didn't become president of the congress policy. i thought you're going to good clinch that by the time that you are next on going undergrad. i should i to just on a truck and it said it was a very resigned interface. i, i have been a, since you haven't been the most successful news in the history of going to respond to your actions, which i suppose is, is a kind of modest consultation. what has to pack away the the bottom of was a lot of strong short lap and one day before we get to independence, i bet it just quickly ask you because the world is looking at these. yeah. what with biden's ending victoria newland down to the i'm a a and a lot of people talking about these. yeah. because it's all sorts of uranium for nuclear weapons and nuclear power 25 percent going to the u. v. r as well to the former indian indian on voyage. and he just said as well as india's relations with

these air concern, the overall relationship is not going to be damaged by that much want to plastic response, then say paris or washington talking about full scale invasion then? yes, i think it probably i think some of those are supposed be right. that is a basic relationship with uh, with these. yeah. and indeed, with most doctors and effort caps has tended to be free of its, of its own democratic credentials and convictions, as tended by and large strew to avoid the kind of sort of model by using the western countries or nations of african countries. i do partially because of the focus on national interest, and partially because in depths, i think has realized that sometimes different standards would need to be applied in situations in which countries have to govern themselves as best they can and well to what's best they can middle of necessarily match the standards if you'd like to set the well, well, some, some of the same revolution, thomas and the revolutionary government has more democratic credentials than the us . the,

they to back one the preceded hits. so who below to get to go to to be sure exactly what that is largest. yes, i think we'll have to see as a settled down there is also, as you know, the legend demands for reg. know the most of the group to be involved in the right, no sizes are coming in. all that takes the direction of the government and, and how they behave. i would also remain to be seen and we've seen what is a big c i a basic needs. yeah, they put an offer $1000000000.00. what into the into that area. so clearly this is the size of proxy war and i given it 7060 is independence. and the brutal petition indian wants to fight it seems to me on this geo political stage with nuclear pockets, then it's fighting with new k, a china off the time. and there's while the global south, including the jab again of 5. so including brazil, including the south east asia, they're all talking about this new world. india's fighting with pakistan with china

. i think you being critical with the working with the rush or i mean don't you one russian energy is the new india is there in the indian political class. completely unaware of this new world order and it's breaking out nbc, very long, clean that all of these measures. are you seeing this pricing? i think i've been a little on just because lucky bosses adversary's who have in both cases initiates its actions that have force us in the obligation to defend ourselves. but having said that, nobody and even more human, our investigators in these situations is content facing anything by way of a new care engaged. so we're looking at the waterbean skirmishes with the chinese mine establishes on the frontier the one of them was serious enough for us to use 20 soldiers in one episode with the chinese. i will, buckets on each side. it's not being directory, confrontation with the pockets on the armies, but rather with medicine center is sent across from that side. so we got along with

sort of new to conflict. that's what you're concerned about. certainly everyone was also bringing the heads, wouldn't be concerned about the prospect, a new kind of walls, but it's not exactly human and notarized seems likely has been coming in. but what i will say, however, is that every country has a responsibility to look up to is national security. and we're not exactly living in a safe neighborhood. we've got village or in san go inside 2 sides of us and we need to be a series of reality. and so to be careful. yeah, you see even the way you said belligerence on both sides. sounds like the, the old world give me. i'm well in here is doing lloyd austin was there in india on june, june of this year, 5 year roadmap to count. it's showing the regina thing was there to hear about us a weapon. sales to india had come back, land mobility surveillance intelligence. munitions basically is um, in the are a bit likely european union. i mean, the united states wants to divide russia through your grain and divide china through india. and we've seen what it's done to the european union because germany

is in recession. and many people are talking about your demise. india continues in this way. is it actually a vassal states on the 75th? and 6th, none of those are the mc one option is dealt with. india knows that no one gets to use india to pursue any other objective of option and as interest. i don't think that's any and getting government to the lot of except we use in 76 year sense independence. and i can assure you that they would be absolutely no tolerance for playing anybody else's game is the rest of selling ourselves. that's because that's good business for them. and of course it happens to coincide with some of that g o strategic objectives. and the way of buying those items is because we need to not because we are willing to pay anybody else has been the truth is that we are and the difficult situations are pretty simple. um, suppliers itself running shorts, a weapon rate because of its water, new crate. oh, we have to diversify our services and we went to the us content. the problems we've

done is ropes. and this is not surprising. we'd also turn on true to other countries that used to be in the sooner we had always not might have spent pods for some of the russian river. we still use, obviously, that obviously the power of india and maybe in your constituency encounter that will be saying you can spend the money more politically than that by military arms . but i should also say the us state developments. matthew miller, lincoln's man at the, in washington said, you know, the us regularly raises human rights concerns with india. we've done that in the past with india and we'll do that in the future just just for the past few weeks. this is what the united states thinks of india. it's a human rights violating country while simultaneously trying to make cash out of india by selling them uh, the general atomics of you avi's $2000000000.00. i think you just spent on that. no, to get better already shoes in indian agreeing, the opposition policies have been raising consistently. but we don't go and asking western countries to do our work for us. we're is issues as positive our response to role as an opposition in democracy. and we will challenge our government,

but uh, but i think by large it's up to indians to solve their own problems, whether in relation to human rights or anything else, i cannot make policy political approaches bottom policy. visa methods are the subjects for debates within the indian context, but we are, we are not particularly on either side of the political aisle welcoming or following interference. and these issues. well, you, being critical of moody saying is too close to russia and isn't the point here. the joseph bar l, the you the believe good european union? foreign minister said your up as a god and the rest of the world is a jungle. i mean, it's only is that your ex colonial rule is those, those countries in europe because portugal was there in the india. i mean, they very, you see, and here's a cash co now as it's economically has risen in the past decades. and while navigating this moody is trying to navigate and your last thing,

we should be close to the washington as the congress body does under some video, simplifying my position dramatically. first of all, let me stress and reaction to that comment that god has maybe more comfortable. but john, those are more interesting. so i think i remember you to be where, where people find that interesting challenges facing the number one. number 2, i did not say that the india is too close to russia. i fully understand that it was possible that list is that a very long time. i simply said that on the ukraine measure, that india had failed, especially initially to uphold principles that it has to sort of just stood by for 7 big change, including these sovereignty of states being violent, but to see a voters of the investment in of visibility of use a force to settle international disputes. so i said, since i didn't hear you say one word about that when uh, when off to the us who in care of there was shedding and killing 14000 people in east and ukraine. i didn't see you make one speech in the congress saying uh that

the ukrainians were killing 14000 people in east and ukraine. why now are you re reciting to me, washington talking points. olivia, you were in the us, isn't it? this 2nd general one involves a into a member states of the united submissions violating the sovereignty of another. the other involves a government of a recognized member stage of the un attaching a portion of what is seen internationally as its own territory. there is a difference and i think on these messages, countries like india, can you afford to surrender the principals because that surrender will and could be used against us in parts of our own country such as, for example, if me is so i, i, i'm very consistent with my approach, so we need to stand by the principles of your role is always off hills for the last 7 decades. it's nothing against russia as a, as a friend, it's against russia's pacific action. it's likely people can do wrong things. this

was a wrong thing and we had to point to that, but i will say that india has to fight its own battles. and india has to stand up for its own security and which i'm every responsible in good citizen. what supports the government all being that we show a policy they may be from as long as they take responsible actions to progress to project national security. we won't be critical where the governments i've seen is in sufficiently muscular, as we find has been the case of the china border. well, obviously russia sees that the battle in europe is existential. and as a proportion of the population at the un general assembly, the majority of humanity didn't vote for the resolution condemning russia for it. so patients in, in ukraine and what you just said gives me the vision as well as it might with the shanghai cooperation organization. idea of a new security world. does this really?

i mean it's, it's more of the old world of game you're talking about india or is that while the rest of the global south are all talking about a new security architecture, hocking back pads due to band do, and then on line move with as well. in the, as you know, as, as in some ways been playing, it's all sides. it's chad. this, you chairing the g 20? i activated the brakes. uh it has. it has in many ways, tried to keep all the channels of communication and a good relations products, and i think that's and so where is this being a tough act to pull off, which india so far managed to do with that in terms of adam tegan ising anybody else is heading into the bridge? somebody in south africa in the spirit, very much off, all sort of baptists of patients. there are important issues before which, including the possibility of its expansion, which fits into what you're talking about. the emergence of new configurations, while the same time,

it has actually reaffirmed its role in the g 20 during its chairmanship. so i think i think you have to give credit to india for not presenting in a way that can less it'd be tied cost on one side, all the other of what you're seeing as a global divide chest of drawer. i'll stop you. the more from the indian national congress and being for the indian external affairs minister after this break the, the other way. not. right. so see what's printing, what was the other one that's good. this is just so basically of course

we need the last name was name is rita was can when we used to live imagine we have support for someone who is this we would show new people to the the the welcome back to going on the garden. i'm still here with one of the news was famous politicians and intellectuals, indian national congress and beat up to shushing through charging you were talking about the brakes in a few days time at the, at the end of the month in south africa. i do think good you are right to criticize breaks for platitudes, rather than action. we had to go to neil for the goldman sachs boss who coined the

term brake on the show. and he said, economies have to be careful about how they say dispose of the depths and nature of nation. you know, your being data is as the rise of brakes happens, you do, you don't want to see the acceleration of the dumping of data in this new bricks. well, the order of the dollar eyes ation. well, we don't really know how far that's going to go, and i think there's been some conversation about this, but nothing's changing anything remotely like a formal shape. the individual government sort of taking individual actions. and i think governments are going to be guided by what they see as being their own interest makes extremely interesting issues going on in the, in the bridgestone tex. first of all, it's going to be very widely attended. i gather the invitations to attend the summit. i'm not just for the, the 5 meters and a 5 member countries up to 67 meters across africa, left in america, in the caribbean. and on top of that, the 20 degrees, including the sectors of the united nations,

the jeff person of the african union. and the president has a new developing bank. i'm old and invited. so well, we are looking at the much larger sources context for breaks business. the, those are going to be attending and there's going to be open discussion of something that some members have been pursuing more avenue than other than that is expensive. but adding adding new members. now i know there's some skepticism by some there's more willingness for others. but um, in order to suggest that jumps bricks is boys for an evolution that might indeed make it more relevant rather than less. because platitudes certainly have had problems and organizations like the congress. i love the british set of risk on default to go that way. it has to find a certain clear relevance coming off of this. the spreadsheets. i'm not sure i'm not sure on the brick fleet is would like it to be compared to the to the kweisi imperial commonwealth. but i say we, we use what that is huge and that's what i reminded me of we've,

we've had little on this show brazil obviously taking a big lead to be russia massively involved in this new diesel arise ation world. china very much involved. south africa, there was a recent conference in st. petersburg talking about the close to us between the african nations away from the i m f and well banks. again and again, it isn't the i that's the india. that's the problem in because it has problems with china. you're talking about the fact that you should basically be condemning rush. you're over, you grain, and i'm not sure what the, what you want to say about south africa and brazil is india and hope this is not a bit of a problem. yeah. it is actually a very good relationship with both of us. again, brazil, and indeed there is a separate organization of the 3 of them called himself endeavors of south africa, which is actually gone some of his own developing projects going on and dates respective countries. us out every day is the smallest rich country as

a globe both in terms of population and perhaps in terms of the size of the economy . but they were the 1st beneficiaries of expansion when britain became briggs. and i would argue that now with a group that comes to more than 40 percent of the population and about 26 percent of the global economy out, there is the emergence of what everyone sees as an alternative forms for countries um, or to develop new diplomatic channels, which indeed offrey updates traditional dominant western college. and i think the, you know, we've been seeing that we've been hearing a lot of talk of the decline into increasing get a relevance or some, what suggest of a normal line movement breaks could be the new, clear. so something that's, that's the, in a sense is a successor to the non line movement, not as large. and as i'm really as non alignment about perhaps capable of more focused engagement. i would say that that, that as long as countries like brazil in india, i have the kinds of use that have and i've seen is having the,

the credit ability in the clouds that have um, uh no one is going to choose brakes of just being a cash pool to russian and chinese infants, but i will have to agency, i think the how will these things go? what comes out of the the break somebody's cups? yeah, the logo questions, questions some of the global 0 ballistics are very important, but they will be discussions on trade. the discussions on a china is major leap on infrastructure developments in many of the british countries. i think i think we're going to have to see some, some pretty solid progress coming out of this, this metering and 2 things on depression of expansion because there are 23 pending applications on your books images. and i think that again is something that is bound to be of some concern. a to just are members and brazil has been opened the skeptical, for example, of enlargement. india has been surprising that there's more welcoming and, and we know that we know that russia and china have been quite keen on seeing some new members coming in from china,

i think is obviously the main driver for expansion of bridge. so i think there's, there's a lot of questions yet, a lot of possible trends. we love to see how it might as a mobile unites brazil, i mean, lula was obviously imprisoned because of a defacto us back to he said, so in this show, we know what russia thinks of washing doing the web result, things of washington. we know what china thinks of washington and the google vessels dates of your and we know what south africa things you trust them, don't you? i mean, you and the congress body of india seem to trust the united states and european union countries as a, as nation's that you're going to do masses of arms deals with and attempt to side with what, why is india still? you're exaggerating that rule. it almost plays in all this is a useful element,

but it's by no means dominant. none of these countries is principally, for example, not so none of these countries is the principal element and the relationship of lloyd austin was there. as i said on june, a 5 year roadmap for india for you. i mean the 0 um, from the united states coming to indian 20 way then uh, $20000000000.00. that's right because they're selling guessing. but we believe we need and which frankly will be more or more into spend several of we have ups assessment. why do you think it'll work? why do you think american arms will work? because it's currently being blown to pieces in the training, but battlefront as well as far as your notes. some of the b, that's exactly the opposite. that is the russian of that i have not the number you degrade advertisement. so for the weapon supplies i, i'm not a ministry man, i'm going to stay away from that. but i've seen both both kinds of arguments and more and more to the point to the same as it rushes docs a piecing with each passing day. is that what, when you print,

making them less and less likely to be a reliable supplier? a more weaponry and most parents, i think we certainly need to diversify all sources. i want to stress that india has always tried to preserve its own sense of autonomy by maintaining good relations with all sides and to maintain the channels of communication as well as on sales, as well as great with all sides. um, even with china, even off to china can 20 of us. so just a trade relationship has actually gone up, which this may some of us. but it also points to the fact that this is an increase in gains independent world when it comes to trade and commerce. and no one can afford to be finishing about school and was increased risk. so all of these things i have to say should wait for your refers to the us sanctions. i mean, penny, the united states and nato countries are not happy with india buying. i think more energy from russia than ever before in the past few days. so you can pay before the how they see it as breaking their sanctions, the u on, so as to be trading with russia. yes,

and i would say that as far as treatment rushes concerned, it isn't into his national interest. but i would argue that one might be overstating. oh, i'm happy the wisdom countries over this because you know, russian or it goes into the mix of all of it is important oil which isn't refined and india and this happens to sold to the us and the u. k. anyway, so really very countries that have sanctioned russia are indirectly benefiting from russian oil once for 5 months. it's for finding india as well as up. do you have the effect of the, the india buying russian or stabilizers water prices? because it's not, it would be adding to the number of countries competing for the risk of was or is, or, or in supplies. and that will drive the price is up at the pump for consumers in america, bread and the rest of your. so you're looking at a broad picture. i think you would genuine, you have to understand that one thing is doing is not in fact uh isn't. why wouldn't turn it around and say just it is in the interest of the west as well as

of india? i was a restaurant of not. yeah that, that isn't the regularly coverage on the us and european television channels. what you just said, that i was not sure what i was ask you about him wrong. com. it was on this show clearly detailed washington's role in his over the role as he saw as he. so it is a washington capitalize to, i mean the closest to it it's, uh, india is coming to washington directory effecting your region and the problems on the geo political problems of face india today. no, i'm quite sure the industry, it ends on the buckets on situation. we believe is this fall apart? kasanya used to work out for months themselves. we all know that, whereas other countries, you can say that the state has an offer in buckets on the, on the has a space and no head of government has been able to survive so far in the 76 year as an existence. it means that head of government has folded the father,

billy. so in every case as in this uneasy co existence between the civilian leadership and the ministry, i think the side of the time the ministry has ruled, the country director. and the rest of the time is really the country in directory by controlling who gets to be prime minister. i don't think we have a dog even despises expression goes and i certainly would not have told expect any . and in a pharmacy agency or individual or government lead us to interfere in the slightest way out of pocket stuff. and wrong con was a bus and friend of mine before he became prime minister. i'm very happy to come to him as one but tough. but as an indian, all i can do is sit back and watch and see what happens. um, well, but as, as, as the process plays itself out in a neighboring country. i think most indians want to see a stable buck, the sun, because instability in bucket stuff is bonded to spill one way or the other and talk about how that stability is insured. who, by and was looking at the helm, is really not in our hands, nor should it be unusual. simply watching risk. well, the pocket sondra additionally,

always close to china. do you think then and i needed to visit info one that the united states will use india against china over to i want i don't think india is right still being used by anybody ever. i don't think any country is so far and 76 . yes. where you said that before, but i mean if, if the american warships with down the which side is indeed going to be on, it's just going to layoff the can watch. it's going to be involved in the indian sites with china and india as problems with china or the land border. there are no american troops in india. you're talking about a geostrategic. if you'd like just name what people in the back rows. i'll suggest broad. i'm looking at the big picture where we are, i unfortunately engaged our bibles eyeball with the chinese is on the snow. you reset them others and it's all in the lab. then it's got nothing to do with the american war search. okay. and they're american soldiers all around india. it has to be said, are you just sort of this? no, no,

not in the saw there around india. if india continues to disobey the, i say that kind of rules being given to your p and countries as to what to do in terms of foreign policy and how to trade and who to sanction i, i don't know whether you believe biden was behind the north stream uh, bombing at do you think, and he will never come to be threatened in the, in bigger ways than just the state department in the past few days. and you are human rights allows the i didn't need to some completion. but i will say that if it ever comes to this really hard to take care of also, i'm not somebody who worries the buy from is going to threaten us at the moment. we are aware of the existing threats and i've identified a couple of them. and then we hope to diffuse a, but we are not going to be making foreign policy out for fifths, nor are we going to be making it out of ours and complacency we will keep on our toes. we will certainly protect our own security interest and we will ensure that our strategic autonomy, which we've generously safe, got into 76 is,

is not diagnosed by any of our foreign policy decisions. i think that's a offense summary over both the governments and the opposition would stand on this line of question dr. strategy through abbey, india de. thank you as well. it is tomorrow, the 15th of august option, but us, thank you very much in advance. so that's our independence day. thank you. that's over the show. we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday. but until then you can give it to us. why will i social media if it's not sensitive in your country and add to our channel going on the ground tv on rumbled com to watch new and old episodes of going undergrad. so you don't set the as it creates much over 5 color offensive stalls. western leaders have made a remarkable rhetorical tibbett's binding says it has already lost the board. the

secretary of state lincoln says russia has lost their narrative as a form of pseudo reality because making the claim ukraine is wendy, is untenable. the we're in our tea crew gets exclusive access to the front lines of below dance republic where furious bottles are under way firsthand report from the ground coming up in just a few minutes. these harris qu government is open to dialogue with equal wise, as the fixtures on the stand off with the block and put an end to escalating tensions in the region. the celebrations marketing, the 76th anniversary of independence from british colonial rule are in full swing