[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome across stock were all things are considered on funeral about as a cranes much overhead to counter offensive stalls. western leaders have made a remarkable rhetorical pivot bind. he says, put in his already lost the war. the secretary of state blinking says russia has lost their narrative is a form of pseudo reality because making the claim ukraine is winnie, is untenable. the to discuss these issues and more. and i'm joined by my guess martin j america. she's an award winning journalist, and commentator, and in budapest we brought the door to samuel 8. he's

a pod cast or at the gabble which lead on youtube and locals, or gentlemen, posts up rules and effects. that means you can jump any time you want that i always appreciate it. all right, it's good. george in budapest it's, it's really remarkable watching the course of this conflict and how the west has changed its rhetorical focus like narrative of every everyone wants to support you . great of course is going to win a because it has um, the, the moral spirit. you know, the current job because of the ukrainian soldier in society. oh, the responsible states have had a lot of books. ukraine has already won the 1st big. okay. and then, you know, as long as it takes, okay. and now over the last guy would say 2 weeks. so, well, you know, the of the premium, so just follow up there on the borders that nato gave them in the train and, you know, and then biting says, well, the book is already lost. you know, the, they've already lost what so they're trying to book and now say to me, whatever happens that by people it's not as false. george? yes, the question that's,

that's always the american motif. the only one of the ally, you know, who with whom i have the united states, the pictures is why, again, it always turns out that we're just not really worthy of american the health and supposed to be, you know, we have that the south in the me is where it goes to useless. you know, then, you know, we have the, the weight is a, in the end, the 1st dog will were useless. the ask on these we used was, i wrote is always useless. and so there is the same. um, right? if i were you trade in, i think, well, it's a little bit much. i mean, you have a photo of it. is anybody in about 70 is a and you're telling us that we're not fighting properly. you know what? you know, you get a driveway to grab a gun in the back back and fight alongside those, but it doesn't work as a well, we don't really want to do that. so yeah, i mean, the, the visible sorts of, uh, confusing messages that are coming out from uh, the administration. but there are also these confusing messages. but other coming

out about the some code of negotiations that are going on in the background and the number of stores the stores and like nbc, um about these negotiations, x u. s. officials talking to ty level uh, russians. and then um we, we, we, we now have another story about this. uh, and the go to, i, i know buying it. i don't think this is these a serious because ultimately, the rule that is going on is good for the united states. the united states isn't losing anything and it is the russians are dying ukrainians of mine. i don't see any incentive to be honest. um, for the united states to the, to bring it this doing in so doing the, the, the, the stories that i've got a wishful thinking. well this is what i would do a borrower, a rational person, which is true. but i don't think that that's necessarily how the, by the ministration is thinking,

just because such an interesting way to phrase that because the ultimate goal is okay. maybe ukraine isn't going to win, but it can still keep fighting martin. i mean it's, it's an interesting thing here is that is what you know is the man the outcome. will there be, will be a negotiated outcome, that's a new thing to, that's making it into the narrative. but in the meantime, in the meantime, the us is not going to pursue any kind of negotiations or whatnot just for the reason that george said, i mean, even though it's been a lot of money, a lot of taxpayer money. i mean, this is a, a conflict against russia on the cheap martin guys. i'm going to disagree with both of you. i'm really, i'm really sorry. i think that st. jude is wrong. i think that arisen incentive to buy and 6 to stop is will i think he's starting to wake up to the realities that he called ron in the, in this is his re election campaign. i'm starting from next somebody just called face low just particularly blue complexes and have this in mind

the really living it to me ever since the non here a pain on here. and i think it's pretty obvious that but from the base may agree with that. but i think you would still agree with this is very much a bi partisan endeavor. i mean, getting an inspector general. i mean, that was by far to send in the senate. okay. no, we're not going to happen because the price of the buying doesn't want it. that was by part, is that okay, they keep going. you, but i say we're living in a, we're living in a scenario to our realities. we're living in a truman show kind of a movie says web i, you know, on the, on the face of it, do you have officials like could be others who us thing, you know, i'm in the most ancient and then when the new tons of law suite there was some back pedaling. there was some admissions that was not feeling very well, but then we should hang in there and we should push our reserves as though you came, was up to the front line, a disaster, this tax exam bite in the same functions lost the war. how many people that she

bought into that, you know, i think what's going on on the power though, i just talked to georges such and had only thing what's going on on a power level and secretaries i think they're all towards going on because i think the item does want to get out of this. well, i really do think he does and i think, yeah, one of the things been showing me about this. um this uh, this, this scenario. all of the cleanings on the, i'm edition, you know, think about that. how does that happen? how do we get into that situation? the 1st place? how does the best move she brands and the pendulum in january of this year or december did not clam the scenario and say, hey guys, what's going to run quite low in about may of june? should we not make preparations for it now? i'm sure they didn't, i'm sure they contacted the button administration and they didn't get very clear on so from the buttons administration. but to tackle this, if you want, just supply the things with the munition even to the very easy you don't even need to use your own. american stokes are plenty of allies around the world. their play was still closed around the world. yeah, it didn't even need to be america where you could, i didn't buy chinese on sooner,

isn't it? so don't, i don't buy into this. you're going to run it. i'm going to should. i think they will let. i think i think they were allowed to fold into this paper because i really do believe the board and books of the role and i read you believe in the leadership. let's go come and take the okay. it does the fact that they couldn't plan for this doesn't surprise me. i think they believe that the sanctions would have done the job. and them, you know, and good story here with the kind of go and go back to george. but, but george, it doesn't really matter because as you rush has already lost the more that's the new narrative. okay. so, i mean, we did everything we could do. you just as you said, you know, it's liskey and his people. i mean, we, you know, we, we know nothing about your brain without your brain. they're doing their own thing here. i think that, you know, this going on the cheap here, and then of course, blame the use of it. and then they get really the europeans didn't step up. george, they just didn't do enough. ok. i think there's plenty of ways for them to

rationalize which is like the 100 by storage. if they just had that a agreement to go through. they say it's spoken to this is over no more investigations. we don't have that. they live in the pseudo reality, george. but i think so, i think that then this provides them with an escape hatch that if things go wrong, then to say what it was really the brandy and soul before the pool or they didn't take our advice. and again, they, they misuse the, the weaponry we gave them, you know, a but 5 to many shells and was around a, i, a, i'm actually not buying into the story that they're running out of shows. i mean with this happens in every will. every when we hear about, oh the sure there's a shortage of uh, off hillary shows a show to do my music at this during the world will one that was a big, big issue and well, well, well, hey, we're running out of, um, uh, auto rate. what, what are we going to do about this? so, um, the, the question is, is what's the incentive for the united states to,

to bring this to an end. i'm not buying this thing about the, the us, the likes on the us selection is like it's a long way off. yeah. many ways it's the domestic issues that of, of travel and there is more or less a consensus among most of kansas that hey, this is a good rule and then we should keep it going with true about with the trunk. so i, you know, i don't think biden is worried about the electric by the, is worried about getting into a direct shooting hole with roster. i think that's a different issue. so inviting said no, do nato membership or ukraine. i mean, he did it because a, if you brain is joins nature, where on the, which would you really just reinforces that this is the way, the but they, by ministration. just by doing this work, we're going to let them do all the fighting for us in, in the, in the dump the market. it's just like, not having ukraine in nato, it gets, gets beat out in the states again, off the hook. ok, we're, we're not responsible for that country security. okay,

just let me explain. i have the best of all possible worlds here, which in the den means the destruction it'd be crane. the very purpose of this policy was the police for us. it's not your brand mark. so there's another theory which is being funded about which i comp claim credit for, which is another reason why i didn't refuse to let your grant. and so nature is to keep the as a bargaining chip. so when you finally do, when do funding negotiate with the russians, you've got something quite strong on your side, but to take george's point, i don't think it's exclusively. i don't think it's only the buttons is worried about elections and how you sell this. this massive, unprecedented amount of ministry spending in a country that are be 99 percent of americans qualifying to the map of the world, i think is more than that. i think is getting increasingly worried about china and i don't think you can handle china and you try and both on the same plate with storm policy f ups. you know, that a bummer used to always use the critics him with, you know, we should never forget that quite from, from, about my to, you know, never underestimate,

binds ability to f things up. i think it's talking about foreign policy. so i think the with china threat with cheese, you know, sounding else um, delivering signals which are more robust and mobility codes every single day and basing on the drum and the tension building up over time. well, i think there is a need for the button administration to look for an offer. oh, and i think they're all to what's going on. i think i wouldn't be to supply the ice thing, but this is deliberate. i think since about december or january to the what the claims were delivered, the allow to run out of them initial to create this low because you call them negotiations with the russians when you also rent a 1000. 02255 millimeter shows. after you have to, you know, look for a natural pool, is a natural impact so low in the world. and i think that's, i'm is the moment right now to do that. so i think we should, we shouldn't dismiss, all right, we're enjoyed all bicycle. why would the russians in a meeting gauge and negotiations at all?

any other than a back channel thing that we're not gonna use nukes, we could all agree. we're not going to do that, but other than that, what would the russians be interested in? go ahead martin. well, i think um, uh, the comments, but edward looked fuck, recently were very interested in his theory. the, the great job. but let's go, let us know that his theory is that the russian central bank government has set to pitch and look, thanks a very good. remember, we've got inflation on the control. we've got inflation at a so dream level. but most europeans cannot even spent as low as about the countless river. so there's an economical aspect to this whole thing, which is the, you know, the situation, but pollutants in which is quite comfortable. it's not something that you can, you can banks, you can bank on forever, that has to be a longer strategy. so there are incentives the, i think for russia to look up some of the issues that i saw, the same video you did. i found them seem to be utterly completely unconvincing.

deal with the as losing phrase. so the, the key is that the, the was possibly some sort of but general communication going on between buns and noticing the we have to go to a hard break. we're going to talk about the, the back channel in the 2nd half of the program. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in. we're going to come right back to stay with our team. the release of russian states. never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best. most all sense of the, in the $65.00 to $5.00 as visual calls course about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin,

the machine for states on the russians cruising and split the ortiz full neck. even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the fitness center for the question, did you say from stephen twist, which is the soon as 2016. numerous monuments to serve as soldiers in poland, ukraine and the baltic states have been destroyed or vandalized as fish their stuff, but it must be the most certainly within. yeah, i'm not sure or even some others could ask if i really feel that to produce much done whether it's expressed room was the 3 of the police government denies the rule of soviet. so just in the victory of a naziism, and is it raising historical memories of world war 2? because the 4 digit code, or although it did seem a nice to a james, the trustees would remain,

thinks in people's consciousness forever. but as long as russell phobia is profitable and brings dividends, you are willing to have a to rewrite the cost to, to take up the, i'll provide i need the seats in the car. so i need to study at the welcome back to kind of stuff. we're all things are consider 9 feet are little. this is a home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real notes the let's go back to george in budapest. okay. george, let's look at it from the other side. you know? and because i see these western elite so that there's always kind of this fantasy unicorn, west west, you know, is that, you know, and the zip you will probably,

hispanic, a lower there's, there's an instability in rush, you know, it's just like, i don't know where they get this information from and how they draw these conclusions because, you know, you and i have been with martin, you know, week or 10 were avidly covering how people cover russia. and it says so fantastically wrong. most of the time is that nobody really paid much attention to it. but now let's get down to brass tax something important, this conflict in ukraine. i still to this point, irrespective of the interest rate. okay. i don't see why russia has any incentive at all ever. we'll have a couple of sites in the dumbass, you know, and brush will have to give up your crime media. it's and it will have to accept when you have a form of nato membership, most why would run rushing the initiated discomfort because it wasn't getting any of those things. why wouldn't change it's mine now? george? so i think exactly. now i've seen the incense is the tool and in fact if there was to be a settlement now on the terms of which um,

low black advocates and that interviews referred to by nonsense um, this will be a complete failure for russia because essentially, uh, russian would have to be giving up things that it actually had prior to the style of the, um, of the, the several special milledgeville operations that goes down that have to agree to holding plebiscites. and, you know, we know how the way these plebiscites work. i mean the, the that it's always very questionable once made that gets involved in a plebiscite. so roughly what happens the giving up is gonna end up with less then it had the 18 months ago. so i don't see any results. certainly built in conduct, survive. so if we're talking about bite and then the election, i mean, open conducts of, i a such and such a accumulation. but there is an agenda always with, with this kind of talking, particularly with somebody like look like, look, track. essentially, once a war is trying to, i mean that you, you know, that, that stays obsession. i mean, he's always been an obsessive sort of fellow,

and he's not his new obsession. is china. and what, how does the, how do we fight china was why did using american boys? i mean, that's never really plan of any of the neo cons, what we're going to use russia and that's suite any agenda behind this as well as, i mean, this guy, colby is a ubiquitous presence on, on fox news. also, china, china, china, on the plan here is alright, let's bring this thing into your brain. so, and, and then let's use russia against china. this is going to be all kind of father against china, much as it was originally when the nato expansion, the idea behind it. and george cyrus explained that they were going to use the spirit bins as count on father against russia and how we're going to use russia. that's kind of bother against china. well, i am assuming russian understands that that's the plan. but in the woods and other things that go to by of course with martin,

let me again with this kind of looking at western fantasies. okay. i mean there, there is no evidence whatsoever that kind of scenario could possibly play out in a storage. riley points up, why do you, why do you have, why would brush or give up anything that it doesn't have to give up? okay. it may. and in a, in plus, if you look at the long term, the impact of as far as having other than the, the, the poor people of ukraine and then the, all the soldiers that are dying is it in europe. it's, it's being the industrialized smell, considering everything that's been said and done. but since the end of the cold war fly would have rush it throat, anyone in the west, the lifeline. i mean i, i just don't see it. i mean, there's so many things that have been said that can be on said, and what about sanctions and all of that? do you think the americans will ever retract anything so? oh, it's very well under any circumstances. so what is rustic get out of its own has gotten, is about a pack of lies and deceit. sorry, that's my opinion. glen more. all right,

well, if we're going to dismiss loops, comments about russian and felicia, then there's not much left on the table in terms of what could be attracted to the region policy, which is, is an international state. it does state, but he thinks of a well doesn't think of the region when he did an applicant of the last week was really interesting. but we didn't get too much attention from west of me to read a whole lot of that. a lot of did a condescending commentary, which was completely unfounded. okay. i, i thought i would get to the inability to read the home. said they can, but just don't, can't read the room. i'm sorry about, go ahead. i think, i think does one piece. i think it's other leaders i don't think wants to even envisage inviting them, that part of your crime is. and so if you're not interested in the, in the eastern european soviet motor, which didn't look just as the british colonial model, it didn't look at people's folks on the south field to acknowledge, you know, all right and history. why the present. but let's just because it couldn't afford to run anymore. it was like owning an expensive jag of the call that you couldn't

afford to fill out. you know, i'm, i think the same argument applies to the end of the soviet union. and those countries he doesn't love that so relationship, that's a resentful this from your kind of people he's not interested in in, in the baby. but i think he thinks of a bigger picture, you know. and um, to go back to bite and on buttons side there, there was the other issue about but well, i think you would like to end the war and maybe concentrate on the china threat. not necessarily going to what would china but using china is a mess. if deflection is because he a couple of emotions ever, that his son will be so stupid tablets, laptops should be good to imagine the meetings he had in um, in care of in 2015, 2016 with the um, the rest of the uh, president, discussing the money and the bribes, and i'm about an hour to get this ukrainian energy company. um, uh, you know, teamed up with an american palmer so they could have like ago i'll buttons, vice president courage. i have the chief procedure in ukraine that kicked out what

you did. it could've imagined any of this coming out. and you know, and it's extraordinary how it's just continuing, you know, just this week. it's now being sanitized. now we're kind of being a western media is kind of shrugged his shoulders and say, okay, all right, we'll go to the report and we believe the sol, so strong. and there was study discussions about the $5000000.00 brian to each of them. we haven't got a smoking gun. we haven't got the receipts from the bank to miss martin. don't you think it is kind of interesting. it's actually in the you bring that up because, um, you know, be because of this growing scandal here, the, by the administration to say, well, which is already lost of all, or, you know, what's the page move on? ok, that's what they're doing. they're trying to, you know, this is a success. we are, our policy has succeeded. this is brian, nobody has it but testicle to, to say it out loud, but that's what they're trying to convince people to, to a joseph. george made the, which it's, it's interesting is that they,

they want is that they still continue to think that they can bleed russia. we have to remember everyone. victoria nolan was temporarily promoted. ok. i mean, for the space those looking for an offer, is that the right person to go to george? well, that's an excellent point to be the executive. that's why i'm not buying the story of the, the, the, the back camel negotiations. because this is the person that was not only the most a logical in the state about the machine has been the driving force. only obama, by the policy toward ukraine, obviously, was a central figure. it was never blinked. and i mean, it was for, so to make the, um, actually the deputy secretary of state that is a signal that there isn't going to be any trade g as in go to a preside over any change or a policy as low biden's domestic problems. well, you know what, what do leaders do when they have major domestic problems?

they huge saw so escalate was escalate complex as of there, nobody's talking about the button when, when we've got something bigger to talk about. but we had a whether you praying, maybe even probably the syria, this the downside of that is it being so did you create and in china, if that's where biden's domestic problems, the unfortunately we're rapidly running out of time. but i want to bring up something that i thought was interesting. is it responsible state craft? um, i'd like to just um, sell themselves as i thought above, i would say. and i'm not going to mention the author's name because it's not really important to my point in one of their articles the last few days. it's very him, this is like every one once you praying to win in russia to lose this token. the come from a think tank, you know, the wins the instagram. i thought they were a lot of smart people. i just want you crazy with part of everyone. what kind of

arrogance is that more? it's unfortunate as the subs poignant reminds of the times that we're living and it is a detachment from the inside democratic process of western countries. we don't care anymore about what our citizens think. we've been e for. consider that is even once every 4 or 5 years at the elections and the situation that we have in person with the labor and conservative. while you have an america, we republicans and democrats, you just, people are finally beginning to wake up. it doesn't matter which probably your most affordable, you know, it's all part of the corrupt religious system. and their main purpose is to fold keep themselves in positions, getting this open jobs. and secondly, computers and disrupt the public away from ever asking any remotely intelligent questions. and i, i'm getting sick to death on reading articles and the british press of them the daily telegraph about what's going on and ukraine, and the russian dictate to kidnapping sounds,

the children you know. and then the so essential to read what was expected or could when journalist read other articles and they see those words and the 3rd paragraph, you know, you're working on a b s of not b s or somebody also. oh certainly it's really interesting to george, right. now, well, so when it comes to russia they, they never used the word alleged anymore. the website just, i just assumed, okay. so there's no, according to the report was assigned to misconduct. no, it's just, it's a, it's it established fact. ok for that matter. we can get the source, the, it's always a given as a, as a question on question. fact the rest of the structure blue up way, direly, some civilian uh oh, the sides. um. but when they report a russian denial, then they say when you of times was it was unable to independently from the russian play. and so there's always, you know, whatever the rest is to anything. but we were not able to confirm this claim,

but apparently the ukrainians can complain whatever they want. and there's no need to verify anything. but it's, but those are then brought in this idea of uh whenever booting says anything put in full sleep claimed. so it is likely the journalist just inserts his own opinion, full sleep claim because they were abby and i was full. so what, what, what, what do you, what are you basing this of what all the western media has in real time fact checking the, the back, checking as they're writing right. last week, i guess, go to you, martin, go ahead. what we other on is the lensky sense, when you leave here, those 2 words from the bbc or into the mainstream. british press, you know, you know, your into the truman shows zone where, but salt really very of us. we have enough to stick to, you know, why would you let facts done in the way of a good story? that's been the policy for so long now. you know, people don't know. they don't know the propaganda machine that's been created by the americans. a kid, they don't know the most of the stories that we're seeing completely fictitious and

this, this has no effect to relieve those checks. the company, i've always said they have a white board and they just go from the next story. the next story is all planned in advance. gentleman that's all behind we have what i think my guess americans and booted as i want to make our viewers for watching us here at our teach. the next time we member pass that the a started in 1983 session with my father and a young man, the site that dogs out to the same as a kid does when he goes out in the lake and the communities cushion for parentage with iran. real nice families and allocation for a really long time. my mom was pregnant was me still long winding. and i grew up on long island. i've been having this issue since probably 1978. it's my 1st year that i seriously pointed to the explainable biomass is near historical levels. growth

rate has dropped calling when it's and it's worse has a leveling effect, and it has a tendency to really just sort of strip away everything that's there. the way fisheries are changing, it's the way our country is changing. it's increasingly hard for small businesses to make it abundant. stocks are important. i mean, who wants to fish the last bit? the message i would leave to you is the importance of not giving up the importance of working together and also the importance of taking care of your corner of the ocean. i feel less obvious. felonies are still working through the journey of developing an identity, a national identity. there's a, you know, we talked earlier about the vibrancy and the dynamics of the media. all sorts of use and narratives have a chance to,

to face and come to the floor. also has the downside in the everything is up for debate. nothing is agreed on the the amount is obtained for trying to trying to stop or onto the latest funding around in sweden. and so in contrast to the reaction of stone came on storage space, it belonged to other activists to publicly destroy them. less game. how many of these as kind of government savings? so things are going along with the echo. was it 6 to comb, escalating tensions in the region? we had from the head of a mediation who pays visits the on a one day of discussion between them and, and he does so who is it that goes to the office