quit s and returned back to your assessor allowed. i wonder if the decision seemed a bit essentially to put it mildly even to your own family. well, it was actually a family decision. and the thing is that when i was growing up in london in the eighty's and ninety's and i was at school and university, it was a very different place to the u. k that we see now. i mean, recently we've seen the 1st minister of scotland has been elected, and he's a young british focus. connie, we've got the mayor of london saw this fine is also a focused on the origin. and of course you have an indian origin prime minister in the u. k now. 6 30 years ago in the ninety's and we would have been hard pressed to predict that it was a very different society. and i think most of my life was actually my

childhood and my student years were dominated by the sap true government. a tory government, which was not known for its liberalism inside it spoke to low racial tensions of racism was very old. but the ending lived in the states, i'm very happy to say that the new a generation so much more open minded and much more aware of the racist or discriminatory regions. and the person does a much better place, i think, for minorities now than it was in the ninety's. now i think for anyone who is dreaming about the future in a foreign land, there is a, a green degree of idolize ation there. the bigger it is, the stronger is the disappointment later, i wonder how it was for you that you know, cultural shock off by moving the land that you dropped about. yeah, so it's interesting that i grew up in england,

which is the destination of choice for many focused on me is many asians in general . and i do, i mean, i'm very grateful. i go up there because i got an excellent education. i think england is an amazing country in terms of d, n, a chest, the national health service, the rule access to justice. and there is a relatively compared to the rest of europe and survey to america the more free and balanced media. so i absolutely understand the people want to acquire those things, but i would say nowadays people should look to their own country 1st. because if you are educated, if you have a sense of security in your country, you know, apart from those people who are, god forbid thing but pressed on their lives aren't stable there. so below the poverty line that they cannot even civil and that's a different type of migration. but it's

a middle cost people who are educated. i would say if you have a certain level of respect in your country and security and your basic needs are met. you know, the growth is always green, but when you get there, especially if you go to, let's say, the united states, you will be a 2nd or even a sub plus it isn't for many, many years. now in one of your interviews here, described the cultural stronger to your had when you went to one party and package them in here were the only one who wasn't drinking or smoking there, despite the fact that your warrens actually a born in the country. but it was almost like a wild being born in the u. k. you were less westernized than many of the people who have leave the impact of some their entire life. and i think this is such an interesting point. so you also mentioned, you know, the british society is now being increasingly so their age and i expected sized or i don't know indian eyes if i can put them that way. and i was thinking about

whether one can really understand them fully inhabit their culture. that condition their spirituality consciously, without having some distance from it. because i think one of the reasons why you can see if the pakistan is the sides of the way you see is because you have, you know, so the benefit of several different perspectives to i agree. i think that's absolutely right. having grown up in england and then coming to focused on which was an identity that was very strong and me, i was very focused on the a british bucket study. and then coming here and realizing that i actually focus finding identities also in change. and of course of transformation. and so the identity i thought was focused on was a few decades old because that related to an identity my parents had left behind when they moved decades of yeah. and so with immigrant communities,

what happens is the own country, they leave behind a culture and base, the memories of stuck in that time. whereas that culture lives on and transforms and modernize is so yes, i think if it was very interesting for me. and the other thing i noticed was that ultimately the so called it leads in every country are fairly westernized, whether it's focused on or any other country. because i was interacting with the sort of educated one percent the lead to a very well off. they were, majority of them were inevitably equate to westernize ation with modernization. and i think that is changing now with the, with the internet and with citizen journalism and the access to information. i think people are discovering their own history. it's allow me to screen most a ministry asian history and building into their own historical background rather

than relying on the mainstream press, which certainly filters it is not blocking it out completely. you know, i, one of the things that i was kind of surprised and by that surprised me about here is, is one of your sad again. and one of your interviews is that what you miss the most about person is it's intellectual stimulation. and i'm certainly bias here and russian the just a house lab for some of the worst stipulations of ever. but when i look on british media and how predictable they are, you know, um how home a genius the narrative is. um, when i look at certain reports by think town tanks and you know, seeing the buyers in the, the sort of the relationship with the fact how casual it is to put it mildly again . and when i compare it, for example, uh with the pakistani discourses messes as it is, it strikes me as far more genuine, intellectually honest. so i wanted to ask you, what kind of intellectual stimulation in your you had in britain that they've kind

of got an offer in impact has done so i think, yeah, that, oh, so the nation was when i was very nice bucks fun. and i think things have improved a great deal in the past few years. inbox is done with the advent of the opening up the private media channels. the time we only had one or 2 and largely it was dominated by the state channels. so there wasn't as much freedom of debate. no, you're absolutely right. focused on the media and buckets. funny society is much more open to debating different perspectives, especially on international issues. perhaps we don't reflect as much on our own internal issues with, with that much objectivity or mindedness, but certainly on international issues. yes. focus on is a very vibrant place to discuss things. and i think coming from a russian background or a chinese background. yes, the diplomat,

some the journalist with different any notice but then narratives of china or even a much more balanced fashion. i do want to discuss the broader issues, but before we go there, uh, let me ask you a specifically about the uh your success as a high profile. uh, woman, professional woman. and you said before that it was a little bit of a challenge, because with ma'am, if i'm quoting, you're correct plane, there is a presumption that they are competent. um, though with women at least the initial presumption is that they have a pretty phase now. and you clearly have both i one day that gives you any advantages serious advantages. and this still fairly patriarchal society, like pick a son because uh, you know, that i assume they, i know too many women like like yourself or have the power of both the beauty and the brain. so i think the books on is, is a patriarchal society. you are right, and in most feels that there is

a male dominant structure. i think women are doing fantastically well in some areas, but really it's got to be scaled up. yes, women from a sudden clause who are already educated pass for an education. do very well and they have access to capital through that family well, so you know, so those people are obviously doing well. and i know i'm from a middle class family. i have access to our educational opportunities in england on marriage. and i think that's where focused on is has to be a challenge, is the marriage has been eroded to such an extent, why nepotism by favoritism, and by politicize ation of organizations, government organizations and entities and even in the private sector. so i do think that in that sense that has to be an overall rethink of the way

society is structured because it is turning away the middle sauce. and it's also inhibiting women's talents. but in terms of women striving and making, you know, goods, stripes in society. yes, absolutely. but female pilots fight to pilots. even people, a lady who's climb mount everest, you know. yeah. but it's funny, uh, women are at the forefront of fashion, use a tech styles, all sorts of architecture also to the fields, but it is not widespread trout society and we do have some very real issues. for example, i was in a corporate entity hearing crunchy, where i live, and i am for surely how to encounter sexual harassment in the workplace and insight . i have launched a case, filed a complaint against the ceo company,

which is ongoing in the courts. and i've learned a great deal about the real challenges women face in the workplace even today, and that has to be rectified. well, that's the interesting you're saying, because you also spoke a lot about respecting yourself. i mean, taking yourself seriously not pompously, not the match, the stickly, but seriously enough to stand for it for what you believe and to develop the talents that were given to you. and as much as that seems to be a key to your own personal success i one day. and that's also something that allows any nation to grow, you know, taking yourself seriously for what you are with all your, you know, witnesses but also yes. trying absolutely. i mean, self belief is a trait that you cannot do without it's a prerequisite of success. if you don't believe in yourself, nobody else will. and so police is about a core value that you have. i mean,

it's about having a set to go using principles in your life and sticking by them and believing that that road map your life is the one you're going to follow with those principles where you don't abandon this principles. you can change root, you can change tactics, you can even sometimes change the destination for the principles of bad to carry you through. you're going to use before our prime minister focused on and we're on the phone. and you know, he talked about that as well, and he's a great proponent of that incredible determination and self belief and to give the vision to a country on a national level, but also to display that in your own lifetime with his achievements. i think he's a great example of what selves police can do is transformed you from a world class cricket to, to a well plus philanthropist to an educational list and now to

a national leader. and indeed a global leader offering. we have to take a very short break right now, but we'll be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. the, [000:00:00;00] the, as soon as 2016, numerous monuments, the soviet soldiers in poland, ukraine and the baltic states have been destroyed,

all vandalized fish their stuff. but it must pharmacy certainly within. yeah. unless or even some others could ask if i really think so that's the most on the dates. it's especially almost 3 of the police government denies the rule of soviet sonya is in the victory of a naziism. and is it raising historical memories of world war 2 is the 40 because when you order, although it did seem the non c regimes, the trustees would remain things in people's consciousness forever. but as long as russell phobia is profitable and brings dividends, you are willing to have a to rewrite the cost. yes, the most of the i'll provides 15. i'm upstairs and i need to see things because it looks like so i need october 30th the

the welcome back to all the parts we have the semester. we talk about this johnny public policy analyst and tv breast test time measuring. before the break we started talking about the self perception and national perception. and i know that seems to returning to practice time. you've done a lot of consulting and uh, communication work for various like a sending entities including uh, i believe, a couple of, uh, government agencies. and uh, when our i speak to uh, back to sending people i hope to hear the practice that has an image problem. is that indeed an image problem or is it a problem of self perception that i think is 1st, i think may be the image problem, is because of the self perception problem that i think having lived here now for

over 2 decades. i feel that focused on these are still working through the journey of developing an identity, a national identity. there is the, you know, we talked earlier about the vibrancy and the dynamics of the media will all sorts of views and narratives have a chance to, to page and come to the for. but that also has a downside in that. everything is up for debate. nothing is agreed on some of the most fundamentals, for instance, right now, the country is going through a massive political, economic, and constitutional crisis. because even, you know, well interesting is can say that they would choose not to accept the supreme court product. now, in any other country that would be insoluble, inviolable, you couldn't say that. so here, even those basic fundamentals are still being debated. and for talent,

focus on the 75 years old. and i think the self identity is going to transform younger people are coming in at 65 percent of the population isn't under the age of 35, but not yes. in those decision making seats and positions that i think of the older generally grades are and generation takes away. young people will come and that identity will become more solid when you're saying that 75 percent of the population now fairly young. i mean, for people of those age, it's natural to be concerned about how they look in be in the eyes of the outside world. speaking of which we both participated in a conference recently organized by these learn more about security diagram. you gave a very interesting presentation, analyzing various countries efforts to present the national image to the world. and what i saw, i found very funny is that the practice on is continually trying to develop one

seems sort of a upcoming potential. you had the companions like fiber and practice, done the rising practice on emerging factor so, so there's always some, uh, this expectation of the same thing. i mean, yeah, you don't seem to be able to stick window with one slogan in particular, why do you think that is, i mean, both the commitment to this particular theme of and developing potential, but also not being able to quite let it up. and yeah, because i think the one thing that everybody does agree on is that we haven't reached out to them. so there's lots of potential, but it hasn't been maximized. it hasn't actually grown and bloomed yet. i think that's what we do all agree on. so various reasons, so that's why the theme is always emerging or coming up for about to come up or about to fully realize the reason they, they kind of agree on the same as again, wish so politically fractured new governments,

come in and mediately change everything that the previous government did you know, as far as possible, i think until we reach that level of political maturity, it's going to be very difficult. as i said, i do have a great deal of hope as the most people in boxes on the new generation will allow this change to happen because, you know, as they come up and they come into these decision making positions, they will not have the package of history and do vision that the older generation jobs. and that's why i'm very hopeful that. but on the other hand, i think it's not only pakistan who is going through this very difficult challenge of, uh, essentially differentiation because we live in an era and the political era in most countries have to think consciously, not about just the external image, but about you know where they stand up politically, economically, home based,

so forth, when they don't support what they want to get out for themselves, what, what they're willing to give to others is and it's a very, very difficult process for most countries. i interviewed people from around the world and i think everybody's pretty much going through the same process of uh, sort of a weakening of the self worth, not only on a personal level, but on, on a national level and even the international level. and i know it's a big question, but the, your, a person knows a big vision so, so i want to ask you, what do you think is taking all of us as humanity of this sort of burgeoning of potential all around the world and everybody seeing themselves somewhat differently from how you know others prefer them to be the same to. i think this is one of the great revolutions of social media. it has opened up access to information, but it is also allow people to give their point of view. so when the reliant on

these global news networks, which dominated the eighty's and ninety's, where you didn't receive any alternative information or viewpoint, i'm out fantastic. and we are seeing a shift from a unipolar superpower dominated well to this region, china, russia to be boxed bonnie wrong. and the gulf states taking a key role in this feature. now india is obviously a strategic ally of the united states, but it has a started, it's independence inside reform policy issues and decisions. for example, in 14 oil from russia. so focused on unfortunately, hasn't been able to do that because as you know, iran, hans government was ousted to a very controversial no confidence. but last year, immediately after he visited russia and wanted to negotiate with president you said about enforcing quote from russia. and i think that's

a classic example of where super power has used its influence to interfere with either directly or indirectly, the politics of a developing country. and, you know, it's, it's sad that they do that because i think those days are over. now the public is much more aware of what's being done to them. you know, it's not 1953 way you can replace elected, democratic governments never on and replace it with the shop. the car is, i mean, you know, you, for country can, you know, you, if some people, i used to certain ways of being pulled things, they will try it until those ways will become totally and effective. so in a way, it's a natural process. you know, it was very interesting to see is because i sold the late um tony then it was a real stool. so versus politics. and he on bbc weld and he was opposite john bolton, who's

a us diploma. and they were talking about something and tony been made this amazing comment. he said, you know, both are and cause the k m, the us are in decline and you go to accept and you know you're going to or you read on separate be american from john bolton. but he was an amazingly gracious person 30, but i think he was absolutely right. first and cars are in decline on throughout the street. you've seen him paused decline and others take the place and now it is the rise of asia. it's the 21st century, and these regions will we work to trade with our neighbors. we should be able to trade with russia. you know, we should be able to trade with iran, and yet we ascension, and it doesn't make any sense for us to be sanctioned. like that and not to be able to trade with our neighbors. i mean neighbors, you can't change your neighbors. you can change foreign policies, but you can't change over your neighbors. now, we only have a couple of minutes left. we've talked a lot about sort of this and use potential effect to send, but i want to pay homage to your roots as well. and you know, whenever i visit patterson, i'm always sort of uh,

stricken by the legacy of your founding father. and with my mother, leon, jeanette, who i think was a man of this amazing call for the on the life of actually toured the goal. are church cheryl gunn, the many others, even though he is much less known around the world. i think it was a, this very interesting and intricate combination. of course, my bulletin isn't, you know, western education, fascination with certain aspects of western culture, but also in a genuine appreciation of his own voice. he was never shames of practice them. you know, he liked it a lot, this many aspects of traditional culture. and i think this brand of sort of, and lots of conservatism is coming back, is making a come back around. and, well, my question is, do you still live in pakistan? are you grounded enough in who you are already without a centrally closing off or the outside influence or some of them are very beneficial but also, you know,

failing enough the ability in your own identity to and i think that's a fantastic question. and of course mama, the legion outside of is the founding father focused on. and he is yes, a much under research speaker. he was an amazing person who was so intellectually strong he had conquered. you know the legal well, he was a barrister from lincoln's in, in, in england, so well respected highly paid hyundai in dom on. and yet he had that ability to honor his roots and give the muslims of position via their identity, which was a separate identity. and then yeah, it comes back to what you were talking about that self fulfillment of identity. so yes, i think we have anonymously, brilliant example in mama the legion of an increasingly the younger generation is learning more about him. i'm positions like him, ross on have brought that to the for, you know, him on the phone in his speeches. does quote, allow my bow

a great deal to put to us for the east. and he talks about self determination and realizing your human potential unit flying like a, showing the burden the uh rather than pulling on the flight. and i think that is something that focused on is the, you know, given the massive popularity that ron juan has amongst youngsters, millions of people follow him. and i think he is really starting to be great people to say you can be proud yes. of west education is great. yes, it's fantastic to have skills, but ultimately you have to be rooted in your identity because went out but you will slice away, you won't be incurred, its identity and principles. i'm creating. and i think one of the quotes about him i, i read the now in front of the books by his contemporary he said the gymnast confidential machine itself was incredible. but it didn't make him analysis. it turned into this

very strong dedication to public service to his lines and full acceptance of not only course you was, but of course his country man were and what's his country represented? so i guess i'm saying that to wrap up and to wish that to all of us and all the viewers around the world from wherever they are. absolutely. i think you have to look into your own history. you have to have a sense of pride in your national identity and a sense of pride in your leaders. if they're giving you a vision, then you agree with that vision. you know, the wild media certainly is not the right thing to judge your country by. because it is so selective and so biased. and so agenda driven, i think the debate has to be within your own country for sure. all whether your own culture or the country is that for me to have that go towards the end debates between has been the greatest pleasure talking to you. thank you very much for that time. it's been a pleasure and thank you for watching culture, sir. again, it was

a part of the, [000:00:00;00] the i'm a film director, i've written many strips during my career. but i thought really curious, cutting neural networks collaborate with a human to make

a documentary film. or in your set up for much. i'm not sure about is the volume of cher comergence this your motion shows was more list you. this is what i know, but i'll both deal with this. close the internet and i still go this like, do you feel are used to finance agreement with the positive about the loss finally? probably for you really important and literally sort of by the way we haven't introduced ourselves. i have the strangest feeling we've met somewhere before

the the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered non peter lavelle . nato is made it clear in teams. it's ukraine proxy war against russia as ex, essential, as such, russia to cease the conflict as ex, essential, it could not be otherwise, there will be no negotiated end to this conflict. one side will lose the smart