this action georgina had exposed bullying and systematic abuse that her son school, which was one of the country's most famous military schools. she and her husband had sent their 11 year old son to the duke of york's royal military school because it claimed to instill military values and its students. instead, it was a place of punishment, abuse, and bullying beyond the boundaries of decency. and more was the blowing was to follow that was in the charity sector in the n, georgina how for the whole one, her various legal cases. but that has not stopped the struggle. it's the life of a whistle blower. even one whose work might be for the most part under the radar. georgina, how for hall? welcome to the show. thanks so much for joining us. absolute pleasure. john is loved it to me. i'd like to start at the beginning. you were a wife and a mother going about your business, like any normal person, you were working and taking care of your family and then one day you were in your kitchen making lunch and your home was rated by the authorities. tell us about that

. why did that happen, and what was your reaction? well, it's all positive, much big a story. i've been given some information that i provided to the lord and for us when in the u. k. and they gave it back to me and told me to look after it. and that information was all about child abuse in the school. and i didn't touch the expect to have my house rated by 7 police officers were in the riot, get food with the helmets. i suppose that's polite. perhaps they should have taken off the shoes as well, but they will consent. the tie has been handling the stone and don't humans, the die has been inappropriate with people states a we're not so fight to like try to do is spin into dimitry and pass it to the people who have the steps that you powers or 13 will want to do something to stop the abuse of children to does that just really let me in to this journey is just it's about justice, isn't it?

they picked the wrong movement on the wrong day. i didn't, i didn't know what happened, but i just, so i'm not putting up with this. and the police officers concerned i, i said at the time in the same kind of time i'm talking to you. this is a korea defining moment for you guys. and it was, i ended up sitting, facing them there, and disciplinary hearings and seeing how i think sentiments the day. some people have been missed directed, but they going to pay for it for the hold of the rest of the career the lives probably. in the meantime, none of the people involved in abusing children and covering it up. none of them have been appropriate help to attempt. it's been hushed up, people have been swept away. the x rays are probably being test failed. in some cases, the majority is helpless to no impact, but i'm told that the police investigation is ongoing. and i suppose this much alacrity behind it is the still appropriate across most countries that these are

just children. everything's historic. laughter has happened and we've got the biggest things to do with the evidence will be easier to obtain and substantiate. then you can ignore force, but you know how difficult the, you know, how high the bar is, how you have to get your witness to be up to speaking on children, the notoriously, not listen to. so i, i suppose for me, this whole issue around with supplying is about access to justice and about ensuring that you might have who you are, how old you are, where you live, what your background is. you are not outside of that system that is open to everybody in that there are people who like ex boss to ensure that you are listen to. and if you're speaking of, i've asked about other people that you will listen to. all of the everybody is

protected, we need a safety that for every citizen, not just in the cape around the world. how long did this drag out? presumably, the authorities try to intimidate you by charging you with stealing some sort of documents. what was that all about? and how is it finally resolved? you know, lots of time is going by. this will happen to me in 20, in june 2014, fresh. just to just stay for the 6th of june, 2014. so you can see it's really 10 years. it's 9 years ago. um and i tend to try and focus on the upside of it, but the action was taken that that particular school this relates to the to give you up for a military school in kent. i'm sure it's probably one of the safest schools on in the world now. but it took a parent because the people who, who were working in the school, who had tried refreshed aside. but many of them didn't try because they were too

afraid of what was happened to them. i don't think hun braver old than anybody else to be quite honest with you. just called me perhaps. as a time when i felt i suppose incense enough to want to do something about it. i'm so as for my journey yet it still is still going on really because then we will live with the legacies before this happened. but what i would say is this really made me recognize that most pizza good to most peaks on no or full. a many people get caught up in these conspiracies and cover ups and so on. no, because they set out to do it, but they just, we think it's just into a system and i'm sure when you think about your experience, john, that most of the people around you probably didn't think you were doing the wrong thing. but they, you might have been asked in a different way,

and i'm sure lots of people look at me and think you could have done a different way, which is why now, when i saw advising people, i helped them to avoid some of the bad traps that are out there and keep themselves safe. georgina, after your whistle blowing experience, you went on to found the group whistle blowers, u. k. tell us about whistle blowers, u k. and the work that you're doing there. what do you focus on? well, it was founded by groups of peaceful peak of us some where was the blows up as a piece of what twist with supplies and then senior positions. and it was about helping to facilitate access to justice. i'm wanting to use a bit public press to, to stop people going notes and get digging themselves into holes and getting themselves into trouble. um, it was all about creasing a community with neighbors. you would have to walk this, letting me road alone. cuz we do sell nowhere, so you know that in your notes i'm sure we, we just don't have enough. so that used to help everybody. but we do try and it's

in, in our organizations. ideas were around identifying the commonality, developing a consensus about what legislation needs to look site to create the safe and a level playing field for everybody who speaks up and we, we do the am attends and perhaps collections you know, didn't just wake up when winning is that's what we're going to do and that's what it looks like. it's you to develop, take prepared of time. a more more people joined us and you know, i would train now is got hundreds of people on it. and some get off and some get back on again, some, some change direction altogether but some dimensions. setting those principles that we, we want to help provide practical supports help and information for whistle blowers . and to do that, we've got a free, confidential reporting platform. so then even have to speak to anyone if they just want to test the waters. we've got a great culture of dedicated caseworkers to understand the sectors and also have

developed real counseling skills that give people that reassurance came back to. they didn't feel the 9 that they feel listen to the still understood. and we take you that the paste. they want to get to the list of low wants to go out. and we don't judge. because everyone makes mistakes. no, every list of glory is a good test and let's face it. you know, people do bad things about people take good things and some, you know, some just all mixed up in bice. but we have developed the most amazing team as lloyd is led by in mitchell, and he was in cool represent you really complex case probe, i know, and it's taking him months supported by one of our junior and training barristers. all of this is what we've built, the community that respect, some responds to each other. no time we do charge. i'm sure you've heard about it and the criticisms, but we don't charge most people. we just ask people to come to the if they come or

because if we don't, we don't have any fund is we don't have regular funding. the government don't give us money. we all the only not for profit organization. we don't charity. so we, we struggle for funding and we do the best that we, can we, what we thoughts. but we try to prepare with suppliers and, and we try to work with people to keep them mentally, physically and emotionally strong, unable to go through the process that can take views and changes how people think and often changes lives. but we'll say try and work with the families as well, keeping everybody together, keeping the support network in place and being part of it. i took about what's the basic case assembly said people come on, they come off, they get on the golf. but we're always the us and we remember the pizza at times behaves in different ways because they distressed. and there was this and you know, when you didn't know what your future is, having has it or planned out. this is

a massive shops of people, back to the social solicitation case, really about support information and help and being a family. we've got and i'm going to give him a good shouts out cuz i want you to interview him. the amazing knowledge on the 10 and he's just a fabulous guy. and he's a whistle blower himself and he's been absolutely to hell and back. but he's now leading up here to pay support and designing a really for the team process and an approved graham that will give always to blow . isn't anybody else who wants it? even more support and confidence in that they'll just speaking up within a group but to their, to their employer or to an organization. building takes ability building a culture that we want to see from the inside out. we're trying to move the, what we want other people to take, and we don't just talk to, to make sense to me, get it wrong. hands with a f, as in an update thing and trying to improve things,

listening to a feedback. and on top of science, you've asked me what we do and i was just giving me a you've given me the ability to look over the things i love talking about. so we have the way we run events. we run conferences, we have month twice, monthly meetings, and we talk about topical things. we get people writing blogs, we get people involved in developing events because this isn't about me. i'm really just the math piece for it, but it's about all of these. pick them what they the richness of their experience and how that's driving the changes. and as a result of our casualty is, you know, i'm also the director of strategy and policy to the old policy problem and frequent whistle blowing. now there's a huge team of us now working around the phase problem and terry and we have written what developed written, the bill that they trust is on. and it's going through a problem and reprice. that's called the protection of with the blank bill. it's

going to transform the way we think about was the blowing. and on top of that, we've now started to build a global team of labor, late alliance of people who are equally concerns. they might be in cios. they might be list as low as they might be. you know, the professionals in different countries because we have this on vision and another one of our colleagues iris to not just a very in greece, came up with this brilliant tongue, a global treaty. but why not? so we're trying to develop what that will look like to move on as many people as possible to get involved and put their voice into this. georgina, thanks for being with us. stay with us. we are speaking with british whistleblower georgina how ford hall. after the break, we're going to talk about her whistle blowing in the charity sector in the u. k. and the group she founded to help countless other whistle blowers. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2

the it started in 1983 with my father on a young man. the site met all exactly the same as a kid does when he goes out in the lake and the communities cushion for parentage with iran. real families calendars for a really long time. my mom was pregnant with me still long winding and i grew up on long island. i've been having this issue since probably 1970. that's my 1st year that i seriously point into the explainable biomass is near historical levels. growth rate have dropped falling when it's done and it's worse form has of leveling

effect, and it has a tendency to really just sort of strip away everything that's there. the wave fisheries are changing. it's the way our country is changing. it's increasingly hard for small businesses to make it abundant. stocks are important. i mean, who wants to fish the last best? the message i would leave to you is the importance of not giving up the importance of working together. and also the importance of taking care of your corner of the ocean. the problem was what the noise was, what i mean terms of got it in order for the lower ability. when, when is the check, i can see what we, i drove you about. the one i go to want to set up the temporary lumina, i clicked on the name of the,

the file. and she told me to choose what is already on the policy now inferior, enormous, multi seem easy, or is that what is it going to get? no, no, and i'm of course it only opened was he got a gun that would allow us to send anyone at all? no, that's fine. the the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm

john carrie onto. we're speaking with british whistleblower georgina how fred haul . she has blown the whistle against wrong doing multiple times, 1st, with regard to bullying and her sons, military school, and next in a non profit charity georgina, thanks again for being with us. it's great. i'm really excited. almost no whistleblower sets out to be a whistle blower. most of us are professionals who are just going about our normal lives. but then you see evidence of waste, fraud abuse or illegality. and you feel compelled to say something in the end. many of us either walk away from our careers and focus on whistle blowing, or we're thrown into the life of a whistle blower. you've embraced whistle blowing and you have helped countless other whistle blowers who have followed you. tell us about that. well, i'm really, again, i'm really glad. so is a full rate health professional. i'm upset with evaluation and you know, setting something out and what do we do?

so we have, we have a board of directors, we have a associate membership. i wish i looked up the numbers try to achieve it over a 100 and we rely on those people to give us all feedback. but in terms of so the more easy, measurable. so we receive eva, $3000.00 emails and telephone calls every year. we say we have at least on average an it guy goes to st. j for, for him doing all the in a back room stuff. and we get on average 3 inquiries a week that comes through the r n pays on them parliament. all that demonstrates that people trust is we get, we get referrals from a test, which is one of the government bodies that do all protection. we get recommendations for another little firms. we get recommendations from around the world just before us b. i was speaking to you today. i was doing an interview for the talent government with the time slice a. and i see that what we've done is we've set roses in via so stitched perfect.

let's keep moving with it because it's too easy to stuck in something and say, this is what we're going to do. and we're just going to do that. but when we recognize it's not working, all the landscape is shifted. we've been out trial and we've decided to respond to it and not criticize it. the take towards the best ideas that the best time. and that's, i think, well, it's kind of cool to the table family. it changes, people want to be there and they'll say, well, would it be done in 5 years? i suppose we did a lot more than people have done in 15 or 20 or even says to use in 10 going from looking at legislation we had demonstrating why it doesn't look. i'm proposing something it does because of a few different pit. it's easy for politicians, they've got millions of other things that doing make it easy, make it something they can understand and demonstrate how it's going to benefit of

the citizens. i think that's been the strength of what we're doing. we don't criticize, we always look for solution, take that and then and discuss it. i know that in your role as the founder of whistle blowers, u. k, that you regularly advised businesses, members of parliament and regulatory bodies on whistle blowing legislation. i've done the same thing through the excellent organization blueprint for free speech, which is based in australia. it's been my experience that many countries are very desirous of draft whistleblower protection legislation. but then it becomes very hard to actually get that legislation passed into law. tell me about your own experience with legislation. what's the reception been like in the u. k. we are very creative about the things that we do and we've, we've, we've puts in place things like 10 plates to make things easier and we all going to loan tonight. it's very as a, as a to our handbook. but again, that will be free to everybody, to, to give them an idea of how so we supply not just in the paper, globally low,

we have put in a section for how the lower the name it works and the k through show the people them full into all of those back traps, you know, running out of time using the wrong language. don't taking the right books. it's those fundamental basics. it's really hard to do when you're not an expert in the area. and you'll say probably very stressed. and then to time constraints, so we, we looked at the touch, think of all the words i've lost my words, which is not like me we, we look at. yeah, quite so i know you're locked in for a good reason that so we just keep getting people to maps the chronology out. we get them to be clear. we support them in that process and provide the critical friendship. and then we try and do something beyond that, which is a psychological support and all of our people, it is a trained and it will, they already have it naturally in the bucket bags really. but we cite dense,

obsess about things, things, but tonight, treat whistle blowing like a joke. ensure that you balance this with your personal life, maintain your relationships with your partners, your family, your friends. didn't go into a cell. because the one important thing use or the most important thing is that there is a life have to, with loving. so you need to keep your mental physical, psychological health really, really high. and if you, if you don't do that, you will say from the rest, the if you end up in quotes or any other form of legal process, it makes she's less able to type in more isolated the one. the one thing i've seen in the most successful was to blend cases i've, i've personally been involved in this that there's a really strong ground thing of the best of luck in this family. all they have relationships and their friendships. and that keeps people going whatever happens,

you've got to remember that you have a license to this. ready is no data loss suppressor and i didn't think to me, it does, and that's why i'm able to continue with my life around all of this just so we're really hard on it. i'm very committed to it. but do you collect the people that i love in the process? are they making this life? and i strongly believe having looked at this with colleagues around the world, but there is a slice of abuse, which is in british or european is just international. because it's very unusual as in your pace that only one pests knows. usually lots of people know about this. they might go home, right just a day or recognized where the room doing is always a concern. so, but when you start talking with other people now or is there any way you just saw just the resupply, to actually make it formal and blows the whistle that it seems that is like setting up in a long bell, you know, pulling the ripped court. i'm gone for the,

investigating the, the cause the most people know about the county. we investigate you because i think that somewhere in our own consciousness that's about triggering other people's moral failures. ringback other save us and we shiny and affect by not doing something themselves with shining lights on that. and i don't know about this on the psychotherapists, but i'm sure that there are all these other things that go in. and people says, you can investigate just as a list of law, you're the one it gets put through all these processes. you're the one who's put tool, the cost of lawyers and inconvenience and the impacts of family and lifestyle. and then people take that choice that may, i might get a, keep going because i comp cnn to this. so i can't see myself recovering. so they leave the organization is like, rob pulls up the flag again. this is the cycle, but what happens because it's a cycle is the next person come as long as the, hey,

look at the data, looked into the image of the room and it will stop the game. and you see this happening organizations over and over again, where more than one past 9 more than one person has spoken out. but it's those that keep going to find themselves heading towards the exit. and that's what we've got to stop tense on this way of thinking. and it isn't unique 12, i know the in america, they have brilliant organizations, governments accountability, prove the project, national whistle going send to the relevance of them. and i just love working with them because it reinforces that where all right, and if we're all right, governments are going to talk to us and we've been lucky to be able to talk with centers to ground these office over in the states as well. i genuinely think that the lunch stake has changed, that the me basic is different. a new for whatever reason is it ukraine or the whole roster of things of the levels and kinds of course what about to is it,

you know, all of this is may just realize the whistle blows all the 1st line of defense against crime correction and cover up and if we don't listen to them, we're waiting for the next cov, it will waiting for the next to prostitute somewhere else. if we listen, st. mary's, we are going to all suffer georgina how for the hall. thank you so much for joining us. and thank you to our viewers for watching the great greek philosopher, plato once said, that honesty is for the most part less profitable. then dishonesty for the air of philosopher bucher, corrected that for us millennial later when he said, quote, the greatest truth is honesty and the greatest fault is dishonesty. he was right. be honest. do the right thing. i'm drunk. curiosity when using, watching the whistle. blowers, thanks for joining us until next time the

in the year of 1954, the united states of america engaged in warfare against the people of vietnam. the white house supported the corrupt about the government of southern vietnam. 1965 americans began their invasion following the aim to defeat the forces of vietnamese patriots. defend the gun was confident that the victory would be on the american side, due to its military superiority. however, the vietnamese, during this war into total hail for the occupants. unable to cope with a guerrillas, the american army started blanket bombing alongside using chemical weapons and

naples, which burns all a live village of miles away. where in 1969 american soldiers killed 504 civilians, including 210 children, became a tragic symbol of this war. all and all. during the whole period of this conflict, the usa dropped on vietnam more than $6000000.00 tons of bonds, which is due and a half times as much as on germany during the 2nd world war. in 1973, the american army under the pressure of the rebels, withdrew from vietnam, and only 2 years later did the pop and regime. and so i got involved. however, the vietnamese paid a high price for their freedom. more than 1000000 in vietnamese people became the victims of america in the dressers since 2016, numerous monuments to soviets, soldiers in poland, ukraine,

and the baltic states have been destroyed or vandalized fish their stuff. but it must be the most certainly within. yeah, i'm not sure or even some others could ask if i really think so that's the most of them. a digital classroom was the thing about the the police government denies the rules. so it'd be assumed just in the victory of a non system. and is it raising historical memories of world war 2? it is the 40 piece when you stood there. although it did seem the non c regimes, the trustees would remain, thinks in people's consciousness, but have a but as long as the rest of the be a is profitable and brings dividends, you are willing to have a to rewrite the cost. yes. yes. yes, don't think up the i'll provides. i need the seats in the car. facts do i need to take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just shifted reality,

distorted by tell us tired vision with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusions going underground can. 9 6 tiffany: even him dunbar. that's dealing with somebody. c. b is grad, the 5th for the night. and that is for even be a medical student selling the prior to the status of most of the stuff which is set to

the in the time to dispute that due date is also site potential administrative intervention against new jazz, coo government, it does move a step closer at the echo watson group of west african nations saying they're prepared for action. the countries people say that for pet to defend the nation will wait for them and they will have to go through our dead bodies before reaching the purchase. we're waiting for that. the power of the 3 as the us host to try lateral stomach with japan on the south korea, the trio agreeing to boost that military power to, to, to north korea and china also in the program. uganda authorities.