names that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you, i'm comfortable. my show is called direction. but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the waiting thing. the neutrality is one of the most flexible concepts in international relations that you can imagine, which is why it's so useful. but why it is so inherently different to the difficult to grasp so that the chances we have is the country subpoenaed with the meaning that is useful to them and hopefully to, to all this because i think it's core, it means i'm not taking the side of either of the lease completely the

i started in 1983 with my father on your website. i met all exactly the same as a kid does when he goes out in the lake and the communities isn't for parentage with iran, real nice families and allocation for a really long time. my mom was pregnant with me still long winding. and i grew up on long island, i've been having this issue since probably 1970 was my 1st year that i seriously point into the explainable biomass is near historical levels. growth rate have dropped falling when it's done and it's worse form has of leveling effect, and it has a tendency to really just sort of strip away every single sales the way fisheries are changing. its the way our country is changing. its increasingly hard for small businesses to make it abundant. stocks are important. i mean, who wants to fish the last bit, the message i would leave to you is the importance of not giving up the importance of working together and also the importance of taking care of your corner of the

ocean. of the many of us around the world know the stories of the most famous whistle blowers. we speak often about the lakes of julian assange, ed snowden, and daniel ellsberg to name just a few. but an important thing that we should never forget is that others are blowing the whistle every single day, all around the world, against waste, fraud, abuse, illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety. and they do it largely in anonymity that doesn't make it any less important. in fact, i would argue that it is more important to blow the whistle at the local level where we spend most of our life. our next guest is the perfect example of blowing whistle in relative obscurity, where the authorities treat themselves into thinking that they can get away with clamping down on truth tellers. i'm john kerry. ok. welcome to the whistle blowers

the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 a georgina held for hall, joining the case royal navy upon graduation from school and worked in human resources before leaving to raise a family. she later returned to spend 3 years in financial services before moving to the department of works and pensions, where she was, the leadership and performance management specialist. she became the 1st internal human resources leadership and development consultant there working for the chief of staff in 2008. she went into the non profit sector as the chief executive officer of a charity in early june, 2014. she was surprised at her home when a police van drove up while she was in her kitchen preparing lunch, 7 armed officers wearing stabbed vests and carrying guns, forced their way into her cottage and arrested her. she was charged with handling

stolen documents and was taken to a police station for questioning. what was the catalyst for this action? georgina had exposed bullying and systematic abuse that her son school, which was one of the country's most famous military schools. she and her husband had sent their 11 year old son to the duke of york's royal military school because it claimed to instill military values and its students. instead, it was a place of punishment, abuse, and bullying beyond the boundaries of decency. and more was the blowing was the follow that was in the charity sector in the n, georgina, how for hall one her various legal cases. but that has not stopped to struggle. it's the life of a whistle blower. even one whose work might be for the most part under the radar, georgina health or hall, welcome to the show. thanks so much for joining us. absolute pleasure. john is loved it to me. i'd like to start at the beginning. you were a wife and a mother going about your business, like any normal person,

you were working in taking care of your family and then one day you were in your kitchen making lunch and your home was rated by the authorities. tell us about that . why did that happen, and what was your reaction as well? it's all possible much better story. i've been given some information that i provided to the laurie 1st one in the u. k. and they gave it back to me and told me to look after it. and that information was all about child abuse in the school. and i didn't touch the expect to have my house rated by 7 police offices were in the riot gear. they were the helmets. i suppose us to light puffs. they should have taken off their shoes as well, but they were concerned. the tie has been handling the stone and don't humans, the die has been inappropriate with people's data. we're not so fight to like try to do is spinning dimitria and pass it to the people who have the steps to powers or 13 will want to do something to stop the abuse of children. and that just really

lets me into this journey is just, it's about just just isn't it? and they take the wrong movement of the wrong day. i didn't, i didn't know what happened, but i just, so i'm not putting up with this. and the police officers concerned, i, i said at the time in the same kind of time i'm talking to you, this is a korea defining moment for you guys. and it was, i ended up sitting, facing them there, and disciplinary hearings. i'm seeing how, i think fundamentally days some people have been missed directed but they are going to pay for it for the hold of the rest of the career lives. probably. in the meantime, none of the people involved in abusing children and covering it up. none of them, it's appropriate help to attempt. it's been hushed up. people have been swept away . the x rays are probably being test sales. in some cases. this is mitchell receipt is have little no impact. but i'm told that the police investigation is ongoing. i

don't suppose this much alacrity behind it. these are the still appropriate across most countries that these have just children. everything's history class, but it's happened. and we've got biggest things to do with the evidence will be easier to obtain is some shape. and you can ignore force, but you know, how difficult the, you know, how high the bar is, how you have to get your witness to be able to speak. and i'm children, the notoriously, not listen to. so i, i suppose for me, this whole issue around with supplying is about access to justice and about ensuring that no matter who you are, how old you are, where you live, what your background is. you are not outside of that system that is open to everybody and that there are people who like actual to ensure that you are listen to. and if you're speaking of,

i've asked about other people that you will listen to all that stuff to everybody's protected. we need a safety day for every citizen, not just in the cape around the world. how long did this drag out? presumably, the authorities try to intimidate you by charging you with stealing some sort of documents. what was that all about? and how is it finally resolved? you know, lots of time is going by. this will happen for me in 20, in june 2014. fresh. just to just stay for the 6th of june, 2014. so you can see it's only 10 years. it's 9 years ago. um and i tend to try and focus on the upside of it, but the action was taken that the particular school this relates to the to give you up for a military school in kent. i'm sure it's probably one of the safest schools on in the world now. but it took a parent because the people who,

who were working in the school, who had tried refreshed aside. but many of them didn't try because they were too afraid of what was happened to them. i don't think hun brave role than anybody else to be quite honest with you. just called me perhaps. as a time when i felt i suppose, instant enough to want to do something about it. i'm so as for my journey yet it's still, it's still going on really because then we will live with the legacies before this happened. but what i would say is it really made me recognize that most people are good. most people are not or full of many people get caught up in these conspiracies and cover ups and someone know because they set out to do it. but they just, we think it's just into a system and i'm sure when you think by your experience, john, that most of the people around you probably didn't think you were doing the wrong

thing. but they, you might have been asked in a different way. i'm sure lots of people look at me and say you could have done a different way, which is why now, when i saw advising people, i helped them to avoid some of the bad traps that are out there and keep themselves safe. georgina, after your whistle blowing experience, you went on to found the group whistle blowers, u. k. tell us about whistle blowers, u k. and the work that you're doing there. what do you focus on? well, it was founded by groups of peaceful creative us some where was the blows of this, of people of what twist to blow as an in senior positions. and it was about helping to facilitate access to justice. i'm wondering if he's a good public press to just don't people going notes and get digging themselves into holes and getting themselves into trouble. um, it was all about creasing a community when nobody would have to walk this, letting me road alone. because we do stay on our website, you know, alone,

you know, so i'm sure we, we just don't have it. so that used to help everybody. but we do try and it's in our organizations, ideas were around identifying the commonality. develop pena constance this about what legislation needs to the site to create fast, safe, and a level playing field for everybody who speaks up. and we, we do the am attends the prep, perhaps collections, you know, didn't just wake up when it goes. that's what we're going to do. that's what it looked like. it should have been develop, take prepared, have time. a more, more people joined us and you know, i would train now is go hundreds of people on it and some get off and some get back on again, some, some change direction altogether. but some dimensions. setting those principles that we, we want to help provide practical supports help and information for what's the blow is. and to do that, we've got a free, confidential reporting platform. so then they even have to speak to anyone if they

just want to test the waters. we've got a great culture of dedicated caseworkers to understand the sexes and also have developed real counseling skills that give people that reassurance. it came back to. they didn't feel the 9 that they feel listen to the feel understood. and we take to the paste. they want to get to the list of low wants to go out and we don't judge because everyone makes mistakes. no, every list of below is a good test and let's face it, you know, good people do bad things about people take good things and some, you know, some just all mixed up in both. but we have developed the most amazing team flow is led by image. so he was in cool represent you really complex case pro bono, and it's taking him months supported by one of our junior trainee, barristers. all of this is what we've built, the community that respect, some responds to each other. no time we didn't touch. i'm sure you've heard about

it in the criticisms, but we don't touch most people. we just ask people to come see if they come. because if we don't, we don't have any fund is we don't have regular funding. the government don't give us money. we all the only not for profit organization, we don't charity. so we, we struggle for funding and we do the best that we can do is what we thoughts. but we try to prepare with suppliers and when we try to work with people to keep them mentally, physically, and emotionally, strong, unable to go through. a process that can take me is and change is how people think and often change his lives. but we also try and work with the families as well, keeping everybody together, keeping the support network in place. and being part of it i talk about was the basic case assembly said people come on, they come all they get on the golf. but we're always the and we remember the people

at times behaving different ways because they distressed. and there was this and you know, when you didn't know what your future is having had to or planned out. this is a must have shops of people back to the social solicitation case, really about support information and help and being a family we've got and i'm going to give him a good shouts out cuz i want you to interview him. the amazing knowledge on the 10 and he's just a fabulous guy. and he's a whistle blower himself and he's been absolutely to hell and back. but he's now leading up here to pay support and designing a really for the team price the some approved graham that will give always to blow . isn't anybody else who wants it? even more support and confidence in that they'll just speaking up within a group but to their, to their employer or to an organization. building takes ability building a culture that we want to see from the inside out. we're trying to move the, what we want other people to take, and we don't just to the, to make sense to me,

get it wrong. hands with a f, as you know, updating and trying to improve things, listening to a feedback. and on top of science, you've asked me what we do and i was just giving me a you've given me the ability to look over the things i love talking about or the so we have ways we run events, we run conferences, we have month twice, monthly meetings and we talk about topical things. we get people writing blogs, we get people involved in developing events because this isn't about me. i'm really just the math piece for it. but it's about all of those pique, them what they the richness of their experience and how that's driving the changes . and as a result of our fidgety is, you know, i most say the director of strategy and policy to the old policy, complimentary group whistle blowing. now there's a huge team of us now working around the phase, calling ontario. but we have written what developed richardson,

the bill that they trust is on, and it's going through a problem and reprice. that's cool. the protection of, with the blank bill is going to transform the way we think about whistle blowing. and on top of that, we've now started to build a global team and label of late alliance of people who are equally concerns. they might be in cios. they might be list as low as they might be. you know, the professionals in different countries because we have this on vision and another one of our colleagues iris to not just a very in greece, came up with this brilliant tongue, a global treaty. but why not? so we're trying to develop, well, that will look like news on as many people as possible to get involved and put their voice into this. georgina, thanks for being with us. stay with us. we are speaking with british whistleblower georgina how ford hall. after the break, we're going to talk about her whistle blowing in the charity sector in the u. k. and the group she founded to help countless other whistle blowers.

2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the sous 2060 numerous monuments to sylvia, as soldiers in poland, ukraine and the baltic states have been destroyed all vandalized fish their stuff, but it must be the within. yeah. unless or even some others could. i ask if i'm in the field, that's the most on whether it's, it's special and we'll just bring him up to police. government denies the rule of, so it'd be as so just in the victory of a nonce ism, and is it raising historical memories of world war 2? it is the 40 piece from your story. although it did seem the non c regimes, the trustees would remain think since people's consciousness forever. but as long as russell phobia is profitable and brings dividends, you are willing to have a to rewrite the cost. yes, it does take up the i'll provide him up says i need to see

because to talk. so i need to be upset. yes. what is the ukraine conflict? really all about we're told is about democracy. other say it's about the res baseboard or whatever that me. in fact, there is nothing noble about this conflict. it's just another huge grip. those in power want to keep it that way. the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with british whistleblower georgina how fred haul. she has blown the whistle against wrong doing multiple times 1st with regard to bullying and her sons, military school, and next in a non profit charity. georgina, thanks again for being with us. it's great, i'm really excited. almost no whistleblower sets out to be

a whistle blower. most of us are professionals who are just going about our normal lives. but then you see evidence of waste, fraud abuse or illegality. and you feel compelled to say something in the end. many of us either walk away from our careers and focus on whistle blowing or were thrown into the life of a whistle blower. you've embraced whistle blowing and you have helped countless other whistle blowers who have followed you. tell us about that. well, i'm really, again, i'm really glad to as, as a full rate health professional, i'm upset with evaluation and you know, setting something out and what do we do? and so we have, we have a board of directors, we have a associate membership. i wish i looked up the numbers before i talked to you, but over a 100 and we rely on those people to give us all feedback. but in terms of so the more easy, measurable. so we receive eva, $3000.00 emails and telephone calls every year. we, we have at least on average an it guy goes to st. j for,

for him doing all the in a back room stuff and we get on average 3 inquiries a week that come through the are in pain. so many parliament. all that demonstrates that people trust is we get, we get referrals from a test, which is one of the government bodies that do all protection. we get recommendations for another little firms. we get recommendations from around the world just before i say i was speaking to you today. i was doing an interview for the talent government with the time slice a. and i think that what we've done is we've set, rather than via hostage to perfect. let's keep moving with it because it's too easy, stuck in something and say, this is what we're going to do. and we're just going to do that. but when we recognize it's not working, all the landscape is shifted. we've been at trial and we've decided to respond to it and not criticize it. they take forward the best ideas that the best time. and

that's, i think, well, it's not cool to retain more family. it changes, people want to be there and they'll say, well, would it be done in 5 years? i suppose we did a lot more than people have done in 15 or 20 or even says he is in 10 going from looking at legislation. we had demonstrating why it doesn't look, i'm proposing something it does. because if you just wrap it, it's easy for politicians. they built millions of other things that doing make it easy, make it something they can understand and demonstrate how it's going to benefit of the citizens. i think that's been the strength of what we're doing. we don't criticize, we always look for solution, take that and then and discuss it. i know that in your role as the founder of whistle blowers, u. k, that you regularly advised businesses, members of parliament and regulatory bodies on whistle blowing legislation. i've done the same thing through the excellent organization blueprint for free speech,

which is based in australia. it's been my experience that many countries are very desirous of draft whistleblower protection legislation. but then it becomes very hard to actually get that legislation passed into law. tell me about your own experience with legislation. what's the reception been like in the u. k. we are very creative about the things that we do and we've, we've, we've puts in place things like 10 plates to make things easier and we all going to loan tonight. it's very as a, as a to our handbook. but again, that will be free to everybody, to, to give them an idea of how to wear supply and not just in the paper globally low. we have put in a section for how the lower the name it works. and the u. k. 3 shows the people them full into all of those back traps, you know, running out of time using the wrong language. don't taking the right books is, is those fundamental basics is really hot today when you're not an expert in the area. and you'll say probably very stressed and done to time constraints. so we,

we, you kept trying to think of all the words i've lost my words, which is not like me we, we look at. yeah, quite so i know you're laughing for a good reason that so we look at getting people to maps the chronology out, we get them to be clear. we support them in that process and provide the critical friendship. and then we try and do something beyond that, which is a psychological support and all of our people, it is a trained and it will, they already have it naturally in the bucket bags really. but we say things obsessed about things, things, but tonight treat you wish to bring my could show and show the balance this with your personal life. maintain your relationships with your partners, your family, your friends. didn't go into a cell because the one important thing is all the most important thing is that there is a life to whistle blowing. so you need to keep your mental physical,

psychological health really, really high. and if you, if you don't do that, you will say run the risk. if you end up in quotes or any other full of legal purse this, it makes you less able to type in more isolated the one. the one thing i've seen in the most successful was to blend cases i've, i've personally been involved in this, that there's a really strong grounding of the best of luck in this family. all they have relationships and their friendships. and that keeps people going to whatever happens. you've got to remember visits, you have a license to, this is not going to last for us. and i do think submit to us, and that's why i'm able to continue with my life around all of this just i worked really hard on it. i'm very committed to it. but to me, collect the people that i love in the process of making this life. and i strongly believe having looked at this with colleagues around the world. but there is

a slice of abuse which is in british shore. european is just international because it's very unusual as in your case the only one pests knows you should have lots of people know about this. they might know who registered it or recognize where the room doing is with a consent. so when you start talking with other people now, is there any way you just saw just the rest of the to actually make it full and blows the whistle that it seems that is like setting up in a long bell in a pulling the ripped court. i'm gone for the, investigating the, the cause the most people know about the county. we investigate you because i think that somewhere in our own consciousness that's about triggering other people's moral safety is. ringback other fabulous and was shiny in effect by not doing something themselves with shining lights on that. and i don't know about this. i'm

a psychic therapist, but i'm sure that there are all these other things that go in. and people says, you can investigate just the list of law. you're the one who gets put through all these processes. you're the one who's but tool, the cost of lawyers and inconvenience and the impacts of family and lifestyle. and then people take that choice that may, i might get a, keep going because i comp cnn to this. so i can't see myself recovering. so they leave the organization is like, rob pulls up the flag again. this is the cycle, but what happens because it's a cycle is the next person come as long as the, hey, look at the data, looked into the image of the room and it will stop the game. and you see this happening organizations over and over again where more than one pass and if nothing more, the one passes spoken out that it's things that keep going to find themselves heading towards the exit. and that's what we've got to stop tense on this way of thinking. and it isn't unique 12, i know that in america they have brilliant organizations,

governments council ability prove a project, and that's the whistle going sense of the relevance of them. and i just love working with them because it reinforces that level. right. and if we're all right, government to go talk to us and we've been lucky to be able to talk with send it to grouse these office over in the states as well. i genuinely think that the lunch stake has changed the main things which is different, a new, for whatever reason is it ukraine or the whole rector of things, of the levels and kinds of course, what about who is it? you know, all of this is may just realized the whistle blows, all the 1st line of defense against crime correction and help her up. and if we don't listen to them, we're waiting for the next cov, it's, we're waiting for the next to prostitute somewhere else. if we listen, stay marries, we are going to all stuff, georgina, how for the hall?

thank you so much for joining us. and thank you to our viewers for watching the great greek philosopher. plato once said that honesty is for the most part less profitable, then dishonesty for the air of the last. for i will bucker corrected that for us millennial later when he said quote, the greatest truth is honestly and the greatest fault is dishonesty. he was right. be honest to the right thing, i'm drunk to react to and using watching the whistle blowers, thanks for joining us until next time. 2 the i'm a film director, i've written many scripts during my career, but i got really curious, cutting neural networks collaborate with a human to make a documentary film. or in your set up for much. i'm not sure about is the volume of sharing comergence biskugoma more than showing was

more was do this well, no, but i would feel with this with the internet and i still go this like do you feel i used to play scramble with the positive about the gloss, finally, probably for you really feel for is it literally sort of by the way we haven't introduced ourselves. i have the strangest feeling we've met somewhere before. the a new product is one of the most flexible concepts and international relations that you can imagine, which is why it's so useful. but why it is so inherently different to the difficult to grasp. so that the chances we have is the country subpoenaed with the meaning that is useful to them and hopefully to, to all of this because i think it's core, it means i'm not taking this type of either of these completely the

anytime the or that is given that d d is also beside the potential military intervention against these. there's co government moves a step closer as the otherwise proof of west african nation says is prepared for action, but the countries people say they're ready to defend their nation, will wait for them and they will have to go through our dead bodies before reaching the purchase we're waiting for the uganda and authorities slam the world bank after ed holt at all financial aid to the country over a controversial new anti l. g b t last ukrainian and secret service and brags about conduct.