the weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your facts for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't want my shell stay main street because i'm probably going to make you comfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the waiting thing. on july, the 8th 1941 german troops entered the estonian from the south. soviet soldiers and civilians full of the enemy courageously on the stony and soil go with thousands of casualties. fold up their own to us wants to, but we are giving you $52.00. i need that. i'm not sure to frontier what city of even that's the beauty we bought, the what is pushing it during the years following the soviet victory, a large number of monuments loveless and burial sites were rented to on of those who had fallen in the wall at the c, s another. however,

recently many of them have either been demolished vandalized or completely neglected as a result of the, of those who do their best to preserve once the left of the memory. so as to prevent rewrite history and re made consciousness of the why, it's because the goods for the many of us around the world know the stories of the most famous whistle blowers we speak often about the likes of julian assange, ed snowden, and daniel ellsberg to name just a few, but an important thing that we should never forget is that others are blowing the whistle every single day, all around the world, against waste, fraud, abuse, illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety. and they do it largely in

anonymity that doesn't make it any less important. in fact, i would argue that it is more important to blow the whistle at the local level where we spend most of our lives. our next guest is the perfect example of blowing the whistle in relative obscurity where the authorities treat themselves into thinking that they can get away with clamping down untruths. tellers. i'm john kerry. ok. welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 a georgina how ford hall joining the case, royal navy upon graduation from school and worked in human resources before leaving to raise a family. she later return to spend 3 years in financial services before moving to the department of works and pensions, where she was, the leadership and performance management specialist. she became the 1st internal human resources leadership and development consultant there working for the chief

of staff in 2008. she went into the non profit sector as the chief executive officer of a charity in early june, 2014. she was surprised at her home when a police van drove up while she was in her kitchen preparing lunch, 7 armed officers wearing stabbed vests and carrying guns, forced their way into her cottage and arrested her. she was charged with handling stolen documents and was taken to a police station for questioning. what was the catalyst for this action? georgina had exposed bullying and systematic abuse that her son school, which was one of the country's most famous military schools. she and her husband had sent their 11 year old son to the duke of york's royal military school because it claimed to instill military values and its students. instead, it was a place of punishment, abuse, and bullying beyond the boundaries of decency. and more was the blowing was the follow that was in the charity sector in the n, georgina,

how for hall one her various legal cases. but that has not stopped to struggle. it's the life of a whistle blower. even one whose work might be for the most part under the radar, georgina health or hall, welcome to the show. thanks so much for joining us. absolute pleasure. john is lovely to meet you. i'd like to start at the beginning. you were a wife and a mother going about your business, like any normal person, you were working and taking care of your family and then one day you were in your kitchen making lunch and your home was rated by the authorities. tell us about that . why did that happen, and what was your reaction as well? it's all possible much bigger story. i've been given some information that i provided to the laurie 1st one in the u. k. and they gave it back to me and told me to look after it. and that information was all about child abuse in the school. and i didn't touch the expect to have my house rated by 7 police officers were in the

riot gear. they were the helmets, i suppose, a polite pest. they should have taken off the shoes as well, but they were concerned, the tie has been handling the stone and don't humans, the die has been inappropriate with people states, so we're not so fight to like try to do is being in to meet your in pass it to the people who have the steps that you powers or 13, will want to do something to stop the abuse of children. and that just really lets me into this journey is just, it's about just just isn't it. and they take the wrong movement of the wrong day. i didn't, i didn't know what happened, but i just, so i'm not putting up with this. and the police officers concerned, i, i said at the time in the same kind of time i'm talking to you, this is a career defining moment for you guys. and it was, i ended up sitting, facing them, their own disciplinary hearings. i'm seeing how,

i think fundamentally days some people have been missed directed, but they're gonna pay for it for the hold of the rest of the career lives. probably . in the meantime, none of the people involved in abusing children and covering it up. none of them it's appropriate help to attempt. it's been hushed up. people have been swept away . the x rays are probably being trans held in some cases. this is mitchell receipt is public to no impact. but i'm told that the police investigation is ongoing. i don't suppose this much alacrity behind it. these are the still appropriate across most countries, that these are just children. everything's historical after it's happened. and we've got biggest things to do with the evidence will be easier to obtain and substantiate. and you can ignore it for us, but you know how difficult the, you know, how high the bar is, how you have to get your witness to be able to speaking on children, the notoriously, not listen to. so i suppose for me,

this whole issue around with supplying is about access to justice and about ensuring that no matter who you are, how old you are, where you live, what your background is. you are not outside of that system that is open to everybody and that there are people who like actual to ensure that you are listen to. and if you're speaking of, i've asked about other people that you will listen to that off. so everybody is protected. we need a safety day for every citizen, not just in the cape around the world. how long did this drag out? presumably, the authorities try to intimidate you by charging you with stealing some sort of documents. what was that all about? and how is it finally resolved? you know, lots of time is going by. this will happen. so mean 20 in june 2014, fresh. just to just stay for the 6th of june,

2014. so you can see that it's only 10 years. it's 9 years ago. um and i tend to try and focus on the upside of it, but the action was taken that the particular school this relates to the to give you up for a military school in kent. i'm sure it's probably one of the safest schools on in the world now. but it took a parent because the people who, who were working in the school, who had tried refreshed aside. but many of them didn't try because they were too afraid of what was happened to them. i don't think hun brave role than anybody else to be quite honest with you. just called me perhaps. as a time when i felt i suppose incense enough to want to do something about it. i'm so as for my journey yet it's still, it's still going on really because then we will live with the legacies before this happened. but what i would say is it really made me recognize that most people are

good to. most people are not all full of many people get caught up in these conspiracies and cover up some someone. no, because they set out to do it. but they just, we think it's just into a system and i'm sure when you think back to your experience, john, that most of the people around you probably didn't think you were doing the wrong thing. but they might bring us to in a different way. and i'm sure lots of people look at me and say you could have done a different way, which is why now we're nice to advise in people. i help them to avoid some of the back tracks that are out there and keep themselves safe. georgina, after your, with the blowing experience you went on to found the group whistle blowers, u. k. tell us about whistle blowers, u k. and the work that you're doing there. what do you focus on? well, it was founded by groups of peaceful groups of us. some where was the blows up as

a piece of what twist was supplies and then senior positions. and it was about helping to facilitate access to justice. i'm wondering if he's, if it prompts that chris to just talk people going notes and get digging themselves into holes and getting themselves into trouble. um, it was all about creasing a community when nobody would have to walk this, letting me road alone. because we do stay on a website, you know, learn, you know, it's, i'm sure we, we just don't have. so that use to help everybody. but we do try. and it's a, in, in our organizations ideas for around identifying the commonality. developing a consensus about legislation needs to the site to create fast, safe, and a level playing field. everybody who speaks up or we do the am attends the prep, perhaps collections you know, didn't just wake up when, when it goes, that's what we're going to do. that's what it looked like. it was to develop type repair to time. a more and more people joined us and you know,

i would train now is go hundreds of people on it and some get off and some get back on again, some, some change direction altogether. but fundamentally setting those principles that we, we want to help provide practical supports help and information for what's the blow is. and to do that, we've got a free, confidential reporting platform. so then they even have to speak to anyone if they just want to test the waters. we've got a great culture of dedicated caseworkers to understand their sixes and also have developed real counseling skills that you give people that reassurance. it came back to. they didn't feel the 9 that they feel listen to the feel understood, and we take to the paste. they want to get to the list of low wants to go out. and we don't judge. because everyone makes mistakes. no, every list of below is a good test and let's face it, you know, good people do bad things about people,

the good things and some, you know, some just all mixed up in both. but we have develops the most amazing team as lloyd is led by in mitchell and he was in court, represent you really complex case pro bono, and it's taking him months supported by one of our junior trainee, barristers. all of this is what we've built, the community that respect, some responds to each other. no time we didn't charge. i'm sure you've heard about it in the criticisms, but we don't charge most people. we just ask people to come to be if they come. because if we don't, we don't have any fund is we don't have regular funding. the government don't give us money. we all the only not for profit organization. we don't share our c. so we, we struggle for funding and we do the best that we can with what we thoughts. but we try to prepare with suppliers and, and we try to work with people to keep them mentally, physically and emotionally,

strong, unable to go through. the process that can take me is and change is how people think and often changes lives. but we'll say try and work with the families as well, keeping everybody together, keeping the support network in place. and being part of it i talked about was the basic has assembly said people come on, they come off, they get on the golf. but we're always there and we remember that people at times behave in different ways because they distressed. and there was this and you know, when you didn't know what your future is, having has it or planned out. this is a massive shop to people, back to the surface, the place you case really about support information and help and being a family. we've got and i'm going to give him a good shouts out cuz i want you to interview him the amazing night to attend and he's just a fabulous guy. and he's a whistle blower himself and he's been absolutely to hell and back. but he's now leading up here to pay support and designing a really for the team process and,

and the program that will give always the blow. isn't anybody else who wants it even more support and confidence in that they'll just speaching up within a group that to their, to their employer or to an organization. building takes ability building a culture that we want to see from the inside out. we're trying to move the, what we want other people to take can we don't just to the, to make sense to me, get it wrong, hands with a f, as you know, updating and trying to improve things, listening to our feedback and on top of size, you've asked me what we do and i was just giving me a you've given me the ability to of all the things i love talking about or the so we have the way we run is then sweet run conferences. we have month twice, monthly meetings, and we took about topical things. we get people writing blogs, we get people involved in developing events because this isn't about me. i'm really

just the math piece for it. but it's about all of those pique, them what they the richness of their experience and how that's driving the changes . and as a result of our teaching fee is, you know, i know, say the director strategy and politics, the old policy problem and triggers, whistle blowing. now there's a huge team of us now working around the phase, calling ontario. but we have written what developed richardson to build a trust is on, and it's doing through a problem and reprice. that's cool. the protection of, with the blank bill is going to transform the way we think about whistle blowing. and on top of that, we've now started to build a global team and globally alliance of people who are equally concerns. they might be in cios. they might be list as low as they might be. you know, the professionals in different countries because we have this on vision and another one of our colleagues iris to not just a very in greece, came up with this brilliant tongue, a global treaty. but why not?

i'm, we're trying to develop what that looks like and you find as many people as possible to get involved and put their voice in to this. georgina, thanks for being with us. stay with us. we're speaking with british whistleblower georgina how ford hall. after the break, we're going to talk about her whistle blowing in the charity sector in the u. k. and the group she founded to helped countless other whistle blowers. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the i. 9 6 didn't even even dunbar foolish for that still and was so obviously really is there on the 5th floor when they me let me let them slide down the cell in the front of the

status you most certainly stuff which is subject to the the

the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john carrie onto we're speaking with british whistle blower, georgina health hall. she has blown the whistle against wrong doing multiple times 1st with regard to bullying and her son's military school, and next in a non profit charity. georgina, thanks again for being with us. it's great. i'm really excited. almost no whistle blowers sets out to be a whistle blower. most of us are professionals who are just going about our normal lives. but then you see evidence of waste, fraud abuse or illegality. and you feel compelled to say something in the end. many of us either walk away from our careers and focus on whistle blowing, or we're thrown into the life of

a whistle blower. you've embraced whistle blowing and you have helped countless other whistle blowers who have followed you. tell us about that. well, i'm really, again, i'm really cons is a full rate health professional. i'm upset with evaluation and, you know, setting something out and what do we do? so we have, we have a board of directors, we have a associate membership. i wish i looked up the numbers before i talked to you, but over a 100 and we rely on those people to give us all feedback. but in terms of some of the more you see measurable, so we receive eva 3000 e mails and telephone calls every yeah. we, we have at least on average an it guy goes to st. j for, for him doing all the, you know, back room stuff and we get on average 3 inquiries a week that comes through the r n pays on them parliament. all that demonstrates that people trust is we get, we get referrals from a house,

which is one of the government bodies that do all protection. we get recommendations for another law firms. we get recommendations from around the world just before i say i was speaking to you today. i was doing an interview for the town and government with the time slice a. and i think that what we've done is we've said rose's in via sal stitched perfect. let's keep moving with it because it's to be stuck in something and say, this is what we're going to do and which is going to do that. but when we recognize it's not working, all the landscape is shifted. we've been that child and we've decided to respond to it and not criticize it. the take fluid, the best ideas that the best time, and that's, i think, well, it's kind of cool to retain more family. it changes, people want to be there and they'll say, well, would it be done in 5 years? i suppose we did a lot more than people have done in 15 or 20 or even said to use in 10 going from

looking at legislation we had demonstrating why it doesn't look. i'm proposing something it does because if you different pit, it's easy for politicians. they've got millions of other things that doing make it easy, make it something they can, i didn't understand and demonstrate how it's going to benefit of the citizens. i think that's been the strength of what we're doing. we don't criticize, we always look for solution, take that and then and discuss it. i know that in your role as the founder of whistle blowers, u. k that you regularly advised businesses, members of parliament and regulatory bodies on whistle blowing legislation. i've done the same thing through the excellent organization blueprint for free speech, which is based in australia. it's been my experience that many countries are very desirous of draft whistleblower protection legislation, but then it becomes very hard to actually get that legislation passed into law. tell me about your own experience with legislation. what's the reception been like

in the u. k. we are very creative about the things that we do and we've, we've, we've puts in place things like 10 plates to make things easier and we all going to loan tonight. it's very, is a, the, to our handbook. but again, that will be free to everybody, to, to give them an idea of how to a supply and not just in the u. k, but globally low. we have put in a section for how the lower the name it works in the u. k. 3, show the people them full into all of those back traps, you know, running out of time using the wrong language. don't taking the right books is, is those fundamental basics. it's really hard to do when you're not an expert in the area. and you'll say probably very stressed on to time constraints. so we, we looked at the touch, think of all the words i've lost my words, which is not like me we, we look at. yeah, quite so i know you're locked in for a good reason that so we just keep getting people to maps the chronology out. we get them to be clear. we support them in that process and provide the critical

friendship. and then we try and do something beyond that, which is a psychological support and all of our people, it is a trained and it will, they already have it naturally in the bucket bags really. but we cite dense, obsess about saying things, but tonight treat you wish to bring like a joke and show the balance this with your personal life. maintain your relationships with your partners, your family, your friends. didn't go into a show because the one important sinews, or the most important thing is that there is a life have to, with loving. so you need to keep your mental, physical and psychological health really, really high. and if you, if you don't do that, you will say from the rest, the if you end up in quotes or any other form of legal process, it makes she's less able to type in more isolated the one. the one thing i've seen

in the most successful with ling cases i've, i've personally been involved in this that there's a really strong ground thing of the rest of the, in the family, all their relationships and their friendships. and that keeps people going to whatever happens. you've got to remember visit you have a life to this is not going to last for us. and i don't think submit to us, and that's why i'm able to continue with my life around all of this just i worked really hard on it. i'm very committed to it, but i think neglect the people that i love in the process of making this life. and i strongly believe having looked at this with colleagues around the world. but there is a slice of abuse, which is in british or european is just international because it's very unusual as a new pace that only one pests knows. usually lots of people know about this. they might know who registered it or recognized where the room doing is or where the can

sense. uh, but when you start talking with other people now, is there any way you just saw just the resupply, to actually make it formal and blows the whistle? this seems that this like setting up in a long bell in a pulling the ripped court. i'm gone for the, investigating the, the cause the most people know about the county. we investigate you. because i think that somewhere in our own consciousness that's about triggering other people's moral safety is. ringback other say this was shiny an effect by not doing something themselves with shining lights on that. and i don't know about this on this psychic therapist, but i'm sure that there are all these other things that go on. and people says, you get investigators. if the list of law, you're the one it gets put through all these processes, you're the one who's but tool, the cost of lawyers and inconvenience and the impacts of family and lifestyle. and then people take that choice that may, i might get a,

keep going because i comp cnn to this. so i can't see myself recovering. so they leave the organization is like, rob pulls up the flag again. this is the cycle, but what happens because it's a cycle is the next person comes along. he said, hey, look at the data, looked into the image of the room and it will stop the game. and you see this happening organizations over and over again where moving on past and if nothing more than one person has spoken out. but it's things that keep going to find themselves heading towards the exit. and that's what we've got to stop tense on this way of thinking. and it isn't unique 12, i know the in america, they have brilliant organizations, governments accountability, prove the project. and that's the whistle going sense of the relevance of them. and i just love working with them because it reinforces that, we're all right. and if we're all right, governments are going to talk to us. and we've been lucky to be able to talk with

senator graphs these office over in the states as well. i genuinely think that the lunch sake has changed, that the me basic is different. a new for whatever reason is it ukraine or the whole rector of things, of the levels and kinds of course, what about who is it? you know, all of this is may just realize the whistle blows, all the 1st line of defense against crime correction and help her up. and if we don't listen to them, we're waiting for the next cov, it's waiting for the next to prostitute somewhere else. if we listen to the marries, we are going to all suffer georgina how for the hall. thank you so much for joining us. and thank you to our viewers for watching the great greek philosopher. plato once said that honesty is for the most part less profitable, then dishonesty for the air of philosopher. i will bucher corrected that for us millennial later when he said, quote,

the greatest truth is honestly and the greatest fault is dishonesty. he was right. be honest to the right thing, i'm drunk to react to and using watching the whistle blowers, thanks for joining us until next time. 2 the today and this is new and never done before. we trigger the general escape. that means national governments come into the economy much vivian for that and it goes, but it's actually because of the printer to the bathroom and the get it to us on the move to stand my son. he died if the mean outdoor measure these tickets according to the system. and studies show that this is a full display of 75. i mean to that interest at your home phone go off the strength

of the sunny proper. that not necessarily assume this will be too much tomorrow's. a ball state laws also the take a fresh look around his life kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusions, going underground?

can the pay? i'm rick sanchez. i've been doing news for 30 years to languages all over the world, and here in the united states, interviewed port presidents working for the us as major television networks and been fired by a bunch. i believe they should be honest and direct and impactful. and this is direct impact. the so brazilian president louise ignacio little of the silva. suddenly all over the news, his anger made headlines when he criticized ukrainian president. but a lot of major zalinski for not bothering to show up for meeting with him. well as he's come to be known, says he waited them.