on the the mash sooner it has the and welcome back to going underground broadcasting all around the world from dubai. and the u. a today sees a landmark movement for rush or is it a shed? he'll deland, the spacecraft on the moon for the 1st time in almost office century. but what is the building of a moon base mean from moscow? it's economy now replacing germany is the biggest in your by g d, p ads, purchasing power parity. and what is the real significance of tomorrow is 15 brick summit in south africa. bill is a meeting to find me in the relatively disrupt post. 1945 us a jewel, monique power, power that is seen tens of millions or even more killed,

wouldn't be the displaced by nature nation regression around the world. joining me now from moscow is the director general of the russian international affairs council and program director of inside to validate club because ivan team of have thank you so much for visit for coming on. so, you know, this moon landing us live on the land. i don't know what the future historians will say about how she was as the boss of the european union. she famously said that you're down to recycling silicon chips from dishwashers in washing machines because of the sanctions. how many dish washes and washing machines, did it take for the moon that the noon a 25 to a stop this moon based on the moon, as well. uh i as you that no single washing machine has software. yep. so uh, i believe that's uh, i'll wait, industry managed to launch this space and without the use of any of seats from or the sophisticated washing machines a to be serious. i,

i believe this is the, this is a significant step. we're always facing the street. we have on the lease for quite a long time and it's a landmark for, for our one program. yeah, actually most seriously about the sanctions before i get to the break summit in south africa tomorrow. what does it mean that some of these companies now returning to ship volkswagen of georgia, sol, batteries, these companies are coming back to russia and they just going to be welcome back with open arms even though they refuse to, in a sense, support the rush of war effort to against what date sees naziism in your well, actually last year are, those are the silver companies spectrum companies left? some of them did this emotionally office of disability to the significance love professionally calling me. now,

when it turns out that the rest of the market is still required beek, and significant that they are taking financial was, is new to the ever drawing from the market. so some of the, of those who have left aren't getting back. and actually, as far as i know, the government does not do mine from them or any political commitments. so there, uh, they are wise to be docs. this tends to, they follow further penalties are abandoning russia. and because when it comes to batteries, say, i mean there's only a rush of manufacture, batteries should take precedence. you'd think if the government believes that the, uh, they were steadfast and the war effort. well, you see that it's easy to use the market, this very higher hop to get it back. right. so, uh and uh, i would say the political factors here are crucial, big caught them in mattress much more when the rest and company just left the

office. uh, replace them quite quickly. i mean, 1st of all, russian competitors and those 2 little western states they require fast to go. so now it's uh, quite a tricky task to get back this, this market back. well, no matter what's happening with interest rates and the currency, it's all very different to how west and the analysts and corporate mainstream media in nature, nations have is as regards the russian economy, but that's go to breaks. then, i mean, massive changes to the global political architecture, but you don't think it looks ridiculous. the vladimir putin cannot go to the brick summit because south africa a thinks it might arrest. we are in bricks. i mean, what's the situation is rush here in that is lead to, is in prison did most as well. uh, i would say that the words, the situation is ridiculous. and so i believe that it's ridiculous because the

russian government has not got the south african government to agree to allowing him to cut him shortly. well, i will say that it comes to the most country is reputation. look last them. uh it comes to the dresser. right, so, so uh, it seems that so all the sites would benefit from the presence of, of the russian leader. but anyway, the, the rent is significant and so their capability of the economy is, of the members days of greek member states is quite huge. now the distinction is to give pressure, there is a drawing understanding in the west of groups. that's what efforts to be done to be on the low total of us. so alternative financial system look to be solved. yeah, i made, sorry to interrupt,

but ne donations. are we looking at breakdown saying yeah, whatever they're talking about did all arise ation in a new world. they can't even get the russian leader there because such as the power of washington, which isn't even a member of the international criminal court, such as the bout of europe and union. and this court that is in prison, mostly a black african leaders, the boots and gotten even go to the meeting. there's a win for brussels, there's a wind for london and washington. this cannot stop the fundamental changes in their approaches of new invest in countries to the international finance. so the position of this uh us less financial system, increases concerns in the little best of rules and increases the search for alternative ways to main thing normal market. so, financial transaction, what, sorry you, you may say that, but add to the rest of the world. it shows such as the pressure on serial. remo, post or, and i don't know with around the place, it would be a live without the sacrifice of the russian people during about died south africa

when britain in the united states was supporting the about ed regime. i mean, this is where i'm opposed to saying he's the con, guarantee, the safety of foods. and what exactly is going on? why? why exactly is your understanding is why booting is unable to travel to to south africa. well, or because this, there is a reason because that's unfortunately the engines yourself south africa, me uh, could commit to them on a wonderful day, international criminal. what sam, they may uh, actually the taking an efforts to uh, to just the dean or to make any professional or an actual again, is there a, there are so liter. so there is one given this context. so again, level can trust a word that comes out of the south african government,

the they made a decision as far as they know that the ministry or participating. so in the meeting. and so well, let's hope that no political incident. so real happened around his waist. well, fairly boot didn't put, it isn't, isn't going to go. i mean, what apparently the post a did say russia would be at war with south africa. defacto if a boot him was arrested on arrival. when can you see how this looks? i mean, the russia has completely lost the appeal and propaganda war in nature. nations in europe, in britain, in the united states would be some people may said site be changing now because of the amount of money that boring into the, at the expense of their own populations. so, the russian lives is the propaganda war there. and now the brick summit, it looks like this as well. uh, i will say that the gray is roughly used to be in the propaganda war. the gold

rushes to promote this national interest, right. so now it's clear that the, there, the structure of the media narrative for in the need the congress is a lot favorable to any of them to bring the tentative for point of view, right? so it's simply useless to who is in this kind of point where we're, what we're seeing, the west is the rise. oh, there. oh no. oh oh, alternative begins to beach are of more sensitive to the russian and use them reach, increasing the taking them into the account. yeah. to any of those voices diminished deliberately by european powers sometimes by laws such as such as in uh, britain. you don't think that behind the scenes, there will be people at the break. so i'm it saying, look,

we can play this both ways. we're getting the cheap brushing energy, a discount rates, and it's fine. you know, we had the, the congo into congress, a. m p on the she threw or the other day. he's talking about the favorably about the massive india washington arms deal 5 year roadmap. they're doing all this the playing and all both sides. and it's fine. and presumably when only hearing about the kind of all the stresses and pressure, let me just think, let lula president luna over zillow is on this program. a talking about the fact of washington back, who against him. and he's, they're smiling with bite and only the other month. i mean, i was just see how do you see that as well. uh, i would say that this is a natural state of affairs. there's a big store in bowers, right? so they have the interest in originals to the west or with the united states in particular. and this is not the goal of dress dodge them from the west. so the

point of russia is just to have an alternative pride. so look to be 100 percent defendant in one uh, p of the uh, in the international war the right address actually proposes so to campbell, tentative stewart to, to, to cover the justification of financial relations, political relations, etc. so the rest of point is not about there. is that the choice between them and us? right? yeah, but i mean, there's a class element here. we know all about how russian leads. we've been educators in the so called west and business schools and the like, learning the liberalism of bi on the well to those who don't support that. the i, the, all the g believe they infest or most go society. you know, you go to most go in the, there's a news biblical the most good times on the table in the hotel going everything food and does is rubbish. and you have the country is going to the dogs. is it like if

you stay and they've given until hotel in london where you see a newspaper saying, well actually saying the same thing and not criticizing its own govern the well well, i was not always a jury, the restroom education along the use of the reference to have this actually indication, right, because the, sorry, sorry to interrupt. you don't know these most clearly type children. you'll run off to your and the, and the, some of the movie escapes the draft as well. some of them did, but so many others have north, right? so, so we'd be, we should not over to ginger weiss same is about the diesel uh, in the west or in china. right. so worst of those people are getting better understanding of the congress where they get diploma. but so at the same time they are getting free to go professionals use, right, which they can implement here in the restroom. so it's not just about division, nor softball,

but you are right in the sense that the rest of the media are white in flash or what fresh relax, use uh the, the existence of similar or media capabilities. so globally present and well, if you have a stop you that well from the program director of the valve, the club and director general of the russian international affairs council. and after this break, the neutrality is one of the most flexible concepts and international relations that you can imagine, which is why it's so useful. but why it is so inherently different to the difficult to grasp. so that the chances we have is the country subpoenaed with the meaning that is useful to them and hopefully to, to all this because i did, i did it's color, it means i'm not taking the side of either of completely the

what is the ukraine complex really all about we're told is about democracy. other say it's about the res baseboard or whatever that me. in fact, there is nothing noble about this conflict. it's just another huge gripped those in power. want to keep it that way. the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with professor ivan people fan program, director of the validate club and director general of the russian international affairs council veto professor. i was talking about the problems at home, maybe plus a dimensions to it. just explain how it is that, i mean, even nature, nation media couldn't avoid the fact. how is it that russia's g, d, p by p, p b, has made russia the strongest economy in europe,

despite being the most sanctioned country in history. last year, most of the cost and why the pricing is going to mean what slumped significance mean bucks the almost all of them failed. right. so in reality, the economy of defaults wides, well, i would say that the blacks problems, the number of problems here is the kind of the major kind of the problem is the course of the initial crisis. however, the financial system is quite stable. the supplies of critical goods are quite stable too, and this is what is the most important is that there are russian producers are feeling much better in the the so it's a decent big waste. they are now having less competitors and they have more space on the market so to, to, to operate. right. so i'm not surprised now that russian to going to me

shows this results. how well my name is ms. white horses that are still or a number of programs we have to, to say, including the substitution of critical equipment, which is now under the extra control of the us and european union and dollars. can you know trade? uh, are you talking about electronics? uh yeah, that's what it says most read a goal or so to, to some extent to be are replacing the was this uh um by means of own industry. but this is not enough because the reason of his china is and all that even you and try nissan, all of the state extensions to the extension by the united states, especially in terms of cheats in terms of semi conductors. so in the sense we are in the same boat with china and we have to promote all industries. even got a lack of preparation and strategy on the part of the russian government about of

the booting government. that they didn't see that the importance of having a strategic power in, in these industries at the united states has triumphed with the big 5 electronics companies like amazon, apple, and meta. and we google well, actually the understanding of the significance of these branches. they are even before the crisis and you creating, however now uh, the extra control from the west is a huge score to promote the development of our own production. and wherever we cannot achieve to meet his needs to cooperate with all this is not a friendless days as the goal that i'm on china is the model of the, the image apartments. and this results in this or not because of all of this is not in a vacuum. and we've seen that while the conflict in the war rages in your, of, we've seen the united states and play in nigeria in ecuador bases in the

philippines. and now the senate foreign relations payable, menendez, and threatening care gets done. explain the significance of what's going on in curious, done, and how maybe it's emblematic. they can go into any global south country and threatening them as well. uh, recently for the company is from through just on the be sanctioned by the us department of the treasury way. it should be noted that these companies are quite small and the little as brand you, i'm going to over exaggerated is looking sanctions. so i think this company is, if you look at the district store, the 2nd restrictions to the nature of them and the starting point, you will see that most of them are used to gaze white. small companies to be trying used, usually use testing to meet yours. i mean, fidel castro showed how you beat sanctions. but do you think the era of to him after the game with miss upgrades is shown this ukraine situation really means the

end of the united states, a weapon of choice that has heard so many families all around the world for the decades. now, you birds to wives are significant stations and it's still a disease. so as a story in states. uh right. so with groceries much of the economy, it's much harder to isolate these uh, added. actually the rest and experienced is a huge signal to august to get prepared to similar scenario. i mean the china or use the berg with getting these experienced into account very seriously and others to. yeah, of course, life expectancy now higher in cuba than the united states. and famously it was cuba and that held the end goal or against the british american back to apologize regime e nang angola. dealt with it as we talked about at the break summit tomorrow. what does your understanding of the role of this wagon a group?

because well, as the nature of nation media clearly tried to ignore the st. petersburg summit was so busy, african representatives were present. i think some of them looked a gust at the how russia had managed to have such a conference in the 1st place. they keep saying all that these yeah. the v rainy me supervisor needs. yeah. this is a little because of wagon. now what is the role of wagner is your understanding is now, and i mean, what is it? what, who is pre goes in just very briefly because a lot of people are confused about what all that was. well actually there are lots of situations so around so both wonder mr. wilford more than i believe that what is in the is that the storm it in st. petersburg was not just a number of different reasons. right? it's implies the concrete, substantial things, including the corporation in, in the information security in energy, in the, uh, in

a novel for industrials. let's use the hidden cation, etc. so, this was not just the declaration, right? it was not just the post, and of course the dresser is increasingly f, a supply or for security to example for african states. why did you use privatized military elements? i mean, we talked about cuba, i mean, they opened the said we're going to help places like angola when they were facing british american apartheid racism in the south african troops. the when i called rusher and china come to a deal to help these countries in the face of what clearly, i mean in the case of nigeria, we now know home facts about the nigerian leader and how we was related to drug dealers in chicago. i mean, shortly now is the time for china and russia to start putting troops in africa to stabilize these countries from us, and they to aggression. well it's,

it's pretty hot to command. so the security free of the course, most of them make the invitation. i mentioned the invitation of governments of african not just moving in like the united states does. oh yeah. well actually uh the contemporary international relations have uh, different dimensions. right. and so the uh, business 300, just the through the division of security relations long before the emergence of, for russell product military company is right. remember american companies in the, in have dentist and for instance? so i would say that this is not just the rushing, the transfer rate, the dresser, because the russians copying that failed example of the americans. well, the, i will say that it is their favorite example, but there is a trend that social security for the security and security is thought you're getting more diversified,

is the existence all the most data efforts in this business. do you think russia is going to give up the war of attrition and go for some kind of knockout blow and finish this so will once and for all against that age or back forth is in, in ukraine, or is it, is it trish in the way forward well what we see now is that the counter offense of 43 improves is instigating your thoughts collapsing some kind of rush at the roster of ration the calendar events obviously potentially i guess. i'm not sure where the, the best of the, the previous radio for negotiations. uh the dresser uh and ready to be for the rest of the concerns box. the fact that uh, they're crating and coming through a fence is collapsing uh, ease uh, blistering. the uh, the rest of the positions clearly when,

i mean this isn't anniversary of afghanistan as well. yeah. this month, the defeat of the united states as longest war and hollywood has not been able to even come to terms with that. when it comes to soft, filed the rights as we act as though, oh, culturally leads in nature. nations are unable to come to terms with some of nature's recent defeats. do you think of russia, china, the brakes countries will ever be able to compete with the kind of cultural capital that hollywood and the big television corporations of new york have over the entire world? i mean, as far as i understand it, r t is not that readily available in south africa amongst cables on cable operators . so there you have a cnn, uh and other uh, google propaganda outlets and beaming out into the townships while the big stomach goes on. how i was trying to imagine some of the global south country is going to

get that message through. well it's, it's only easy to compete of bob. so actually what we see here is the vast of china, or rush or, and the number of others, other or great powers of trying to promote dell and humans. and so they want products, let's design like this. so when you look at the chinese see them up for you to see what production is now developing wipes quite frequently, right? it's not comparable to which box actually they are. why they few white with well in the domestic market in the domestic market is 1400000000 people. right. so it's quite a huge, i mean just find the some people say that the russian government and russian strategists have continually assumed the that their opponent is rational throughout this situation. the terrible tragedy of 14000 dead since we grew into

you have in 2014. how far do you think biden will go in winning this war as he sees it? of course we will lose in any will. how far is he going to go given that we now know pigeon was hoodwinked by and good luck and the rest of them? it them in school agreements. i don't know why boots and believe them right now is the think tanks like it was is the, is your ro rushing offense council prepared for how far biden is to go? whether it be 400 to bite, and then the contract or foot? how tony blink and then the risk sees, what are the contracts, but us hedge a monic bout? well, you see that, what do you may have read? this is the class of different personalities. so on the one hand that it's rational for the united states to make a deal to dress and not to spend these huge resources to support your green. and so that to, to, to, to have to phase the risk of escalation,

including the situation to the nuclear colson. one the other hand, there is another chanel to meet your wise, the fuel defeat. this year, all the loss of face, right? the, the, the, the theatre most read the cation, etc. so, the question is, what's, are fidelity real a bit? yeah, of course, it's pretty hot to, to, for both of these are in any reliable way for his ivan to move as thank if you and that's it. for this year, i will be back on saturday with the pen ultimate episode of the season until then you can keep in touch by role as social media. if it's on sensitive and your country and head to our channel going underground tv on normal dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground seas that day the the

i. 9 6 didn't even him dunbar foolish for that still and with the somebody severely is were on the 5th floor when a new let me let them slide the cell on the prior to the

status who most certainly stuff which is the welcome to was a part and to hear so the ukrainian calls like the answer that's kinetic stage. international relations have changed more than in the decades prior to it. and the most surprising shifts occurred. the long country is not directly involved in this war. and deciding what steps to take. they have to cancel, we waive that interest and resources,

i guess longer into political ends. you cannot make trends on almost all came up with that own version of neutrality is metrology. becoming a by word for silver and to both to discuss it. i'm now joined by plus co latasha, associate professor for an attractive studies of care with or university professors high is a great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you very much for having me. now i have to say that i'm a big fan of your youtube channel. i think it's a very rare source of genuine analysis which is that you're ready to disease. and i want to start by asking about this because political science is called science, because at least initially it was a presumption that it's done for the sake of finding objective trends and basing policy solutions and actual rather than preferred or concocted the reality. when did a change, when did it becomes so divorced from what is actually happening on the ground? well it, it never really did. it was a me.