of the the, [000:00:00;00]

the i'm action or it has the and welcome back to going underground broadcasting go around the world from dubai and the u. a today sees a landmark movement for rush, or is it a shed? he'll deland, the spacecraft on the moon for the 1st time in almost office century. but what is the building of a moon base mean from moscow? it's economy now replacing germany is the biggest in your by g d p, that's purchasing power parity. and what is the real significance of tomorrow is 15 brick summit in south africa. bill is a meeting to find me and their revocable a disrupt post. 1945 us a jewel monique about power. that is seen tens of millions or even more killed wouldn't be displaced by nature, a nation aggression around the world. joining me now from moscow is the director general of the russian international affairs council and program director of inside to validate club to visit ivan tomb of

a half. if thank you so much for visit for coming on. so, you know, this moon landing us live on the land, i don't know what the future historians will say about how she was the boss of european union. she famously said that you're down to recycling silicon chips from dishwasher and washing machines because of the sanctions. how many discharges and washing machines did it take for the moon that the noun, a 25 to a stop this moon based on the moon. a. well, uh, i view that no single washing machine a software. yep. so uh, i believe that's, uh, i'll wait industry managed to the lines this station, the without the use of any of seats from or the sophisticated washing machines a to be serious. i, i believe this is the, this is a significant step. we're always facing the street. we have on the lease

for quite a long time. and it's a landmark for, for one driver. yeah, actually most seriously about the sanctions before i get to the break summit of in south africa tomorrow. what does it mean that some of these companies now returning to ship volkswagen of georgia? so batteries, these companies are coming back to russia and they just going to be welcome back with open arms even though they refuse to, in a sense, support the rush of war effort to against what dates. these are naziism in your as well actually last year are those and so companies, spectrum companies left. some of them did this to move slowly office of disability to the significance law professionally calling me. now, when it turns out that the rest of the market is still required beek, and significant that they are taking financial was, is new to the ever drawing from the market. so some of the of those who have left are getting back and actually as far as i know,

the government does not do mine from them or any political commitments. so there was a, i why it's to be docs. this tends to the penalty for abandoning russia, and because when it comes to batteries, say, i mean there's only a russian manufacture. batteries should take precedence. you'd think if the government believes that they were steadfast in the war effort as well. you see that it's easy to use the market, it's very high hop to get it back. right? so uh and uh, i would say the political factors here are, are crucial the economy and mattress much more when well, investment company just left the office. uh, replace them quite quickly. i mean, 1st of all, russian competitors and those 2 little bedroom states, they were quite fast to go. so now it's quite

a tricky task to get back this, this market back. well, no matter what's happening with interest rates and the currency, it's all very different to how west and analysts and corporate mainstream media in nature, nations have is as regards the russian economy. but that's go to bricks. then, i mean, massive changes to the global political architecture, but you don't think it looks ridiculous. the vladimir putin cannot go to the brick summit because south africa thinks it might arrest. we are in bricks. i mean, what sort of situation is rush here in that is lead to, is in prison did most as well. uh, i would say that the, wheres the situation is ridiculous. um, so i believe that it's ridiculous because the russian government has not got the south african government to agree to allowing him to cut him shortly. well, i will say that it comes to the country is reputation,

not last them. uh it comes to the dresser. right. so, so, uh, it seems that so all the sites would benefit from the presence of, of the russian leader. but anyway, the, the rent is significant and so their capability of the economy is, of the member states of great member states is quite huge. now the distinction is to give pressure, there is a drawing understanding in the west of groups. that's what efforts to be done to build the mo, total of us. so alternative financial system look to be solved. yeah, i made, sorry to interrupt, but ne donations. are we looking at breakdown saying yeah, whatever, they're talking about the dollarization in a new world. they can't even get the russian leader there because such as the power of washington, which isn't even a member of the international criminal court, such as the bout of europe and union. and this court that is in prison, mostly

a black african leaders. the persian gotten even go to the meeting. there's a win for brussels, there's a wind for london. and washington of these uh, cannot stop the fundamental changes in their approaches of new invest in countries to the international finance. so the position of this, uh, us less financial system, increases concerns in the little bit the rules and increases the search for alternative ways to main thing, normal market. so financial transaction, what? sorry you, you may say that to put the add to the rest of the well, it shows such as the pressure on serial. remo posts or, and i don't know with around the place it would be live without the sacrifice of the russian people during about died, south africa when britain in the united states was supporting the above head regime . i mean, is really opposed to saying he's the con, guarantee, the safety of foods. and what exactly is going on? why?

why exactly is your understanding is why booting is unable to travel to to south africa. well, or because there is, there is a reason because that's unfortunately the edges of south africa may uh commit to. there are a wonderful day international criminal. what's um they may uh, actually the taking an efforts to uh to just dean. ready to make any professional or an action against the there are so liter, so there is why i'm giving this contact. so again, lever will contrast a word that comes out of the south african government. the, there is a decision as far as they know that the ministry or participating, so in the meeting. and so well, let's hope that no political incident, so real happened around his beast. well, barely put in put, it isn't,

isn't going to go. i mean, we're apparently around the post a did say russia would be at war with south africa, defacto if bu, timbers arrested on arrival. when can you see how this looks? i mean, the russia is completely lost. the appeal and propaganda war in nature, nations in europe, in britain, in the united states would be some people may say site be changing now because of an amount of money that boring into the, at the expense of their own populations. so the russian lives is the propaganda war there. and now the brick summit, it looks like this as well. uh, i will say that the gray is roughly used to be in the propaganda war. the gold rush is to promote this national interest. right. so now it's clear that the there of the structure of the media narrative for in the need the congress is, uh, uh,

most favorable to any of them to bring the tentative for point of view. right? so it's simply useless to who is in this kind of point where we're, what we're seeing, the west is the rise all there was no, oh, oh, alternative begins to beach are a little more sensitive to the russian and use them reach, increasing the, taking them into the account. yeah. terry. those voices are diminished deliberately by european powers sometimes by laws such as such as in uh, britain. you don't think that behind the scenes there will be people at the break. so i'm it saying, look, we can play this both ways. we're getting the cheap brushing energy, a discount rates, and it's fine. you know, we had the day on the indian congress a. m p on the she threw or the other day. he's talking about the favorably about

the massive in the washington arms deal 5 year roadmap. they're doing all this the playing and all both sides. and it's fine and presumably went on hearing about the kind of all the stresses and pressure. let me just think, let lula president luna over zillow is on this program. i talking about the fact of washington back, who against him and he's, they're smiling with vive no need the other month. i mean, i was just see how do you see that as well. uh, i would say that this is a natural state of affairs. these are the store in boards, right? so they have their interest in originals to the west or with the united states in particular. and this is not the goal of the dresser to dodge them from the west. so the point of russia is just to have an alternative pride. so look to be 100 percent dependent on one p of the in the international war. the right address actually proposes so to kind of alternative to, to, to,

to cover the justification of financial relations, political relations, etc. so the rest of the point is not about there is that the choice between them and us, right? yeah, but i mean, there's a class element here. we know all about how russian leads, we've been educators in the so called west and business schools and the like learning neoliberalism of by on the well to those who don't support that. that idea . although g, believe they in fast or most go society, you know, you go to most go in the, there's a news biblical the most good times on the table in the hotel going. everything putting does is rubbish and you have the country is going to the dogs is what, like if you stay and they've given until hotel in london way, usually a newspaper saying, well actually saying the same thing and not criticizing its own govern the well well i was not always a jury, the restroom education along the use of the reference to have the section

indication, right? because the, sorry, sorry to interrupt. you don't know these most currently type children. you'll run off to your and the, and the some of the move escape the draft as well. some of them did, but so many others have north, right so, so we really should look over the junior life. the same is about the diesel in the west or in china, right? so worst of those people are getting better understanding of the congress where they get diplomas. but at the same time, they are getting free to go professionals use, right, which they can implement here in the restroom. so it's not just about organization nor softball, but you're right in the sense that the rest of the media are white in class or what fresh relax, ease, uh, the, the existence of similar media capabilities. so globally, cuz i have, and some of you have a stop you that well from the program director of the valve,

the club and director general of the russian international affairs council. up to this break the store not surely wouldn't be the last of the school anyway. not much of a lot of that's that's my personal opinion, the photo and much anyone beach from, from source to the same set time it will show somebody total induced to picture. you still have them over when approximately a student was over the way 9 the c p lawyer to give you 2 of you to but it's giving you a trip. i'd have a crew to really but get to the my money or the law school or the from me i'd

be comfortable, especially mueller, full of semester. so slow pretty well. i really appreciate your dish that's i just felt because to you to split it towards reason they should little reduce your much more as boys do it for the, for you to show it to he will for use at the point of if i put they did when you cause they were made to the drawers the what is the complex really all we're told was about democracy. other say it's about the res baseboard or whatever that to me is that there is nothing noble about this conflict. it's just another huge grip. those in power want to keep it that way. the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with professor ivan 2 more have program director of the validate club and director

general of the russian international affairs council veto professor. i was talking about the problems at home, maybe plus a dimensions to it. just explain how it is that, i mean, even nathan nathan media couldn't avoid the fact. or how is it the advisors g, d, p by b, p b, has made rest of the strongest economy in europe despite being the most sanctioned country in history. last year, most of the cost and why the approximately going to mean would slumped significant . mean bucks the almost all of them failed. right. so in reality, the economy and perform wides. well, i would say that the blacks problems, the number of problems here, is the kind of the major kind of the problem is the course of the initial crisis. however, part of the financial system is quite stable. the supplies of critical goods are

quite stable too. and this is what is the most important is that there are russian producers are feeling much better in the the so it's a decent big worst. they are now having less competitors and they have more space on the market. so to, to, to operate. right. so i know it's price now that's a rushing economy, shows this results. how well my estimates miss white horses that are still or a number of programs we have to, to say, including the substitution of critical equipment, which is now under the extra control of the us and european union and dollars. can you know trade? uh, are you talking about electronics? uh yeah, it's products is most critical or so to some extent to be are replacing the was this uh um by means of own industry. but this is not enough,

because the reason of this china is not even you and chinese, on all of the state extensions to the extinction by the united states, especially in terms of cheats in terms of semi conductors. so in the sense we are in the same boat as china and we have to promote all industries. what do you think of the lack of preparation and strategy on the part of the russian government about of the booty and government that they didn't see that the importance of having a strategic power in, in these industries at the united states has triumphed with the big 5 electronics companies like amazon, apple, and mehta and the, the google well actually the understanding what the significance of these branches they are even before the crisis in ukraine. however, now uh, the extra control from the rest is a huge score to promote the develop. and so on production

ends the wherever we cannot achieve, immediate needs to cooperate with others without a friendly spaces. the goal that i'm on china is among the, the major parkerson this result in this or not because of all of this is not in a vacuum. and we've seen that while the conflict and the war rages in your we've seen the united states and play in nigeria in ecuador, bases in the philippines. and now the senate foreign relations you have open ended and threatening care gets done. explain the significance of what's going on in care gets done and how maybe it's emblematic. they can go into any global south country and threaten them as well. uh, recently for companies from previous time have been sanctioned by the us department of the treasury highway. it should be noted that these companies are quite small and the bull is brand new. i wouldn't over exaggerate this looking sanctions. so i think this company is, if you look at the district store,

the 2nd restrictions to the nature of them and the starting point, you'll see that most of them are used to use quite small companies to be trying use, usually use testing to meet yours. i mean, fidel castro showed how you beat sanctions, but do you think the era of to him and after the game with miss upgrades is as shown this ukraine situation really means the end of the united states, a weapon of choice that is heard. so many families all around the world for, for decades now, you brush their wives, so significant stations and it's still a disease. so as a soren's dates. uh, right. so with the rest of these much of the economy, it's much harder to isolate. it's uh, actually the russian experienced is a huge signal to august to get prepared to similar scenario. i mean the china or use the burg with getting these experienced into account very seriously and others

to. yeah, of course in life expectancy now higher in cuba, then the united states and famous name is cube and that held the end goal or against the british american backed up outside regime e nang angola. i don't know whether that will be talked about at the break, so i'm it tomorrow. what does your understanding of the role of this wagon a group? because well, as the nature of nation media clearly tried to ignore the st. petersburg summit was so busy, african representatives were present. i think some of them looked a gust at the how a rush i had managed to have such a conference in the 1st place. they keep saying all that these. yeah, the radium supervisor needs. yeah. this is all because of lag. now what is the role of wagner is your understanding is now and i mean, what is it, what, who is for goes and just very briefly because a lot of people are confused about what all that was. well, actually there are lots of situations so around,

so both of wonder mr. brokerage more than i believe that what is in the is that the storm. it didn't seem because there was no just a number of different reasons, right? it's implies the concrete, substantial things, including the corporation in, in the information security in energy in the a, you number for industrials. let's use the hidden dish and etc. so this was not just the declaration, right? it was not just the post, and of course the dresser is increasingly at a supply or for security to even level 4 african states. why did anybody do use privatized military elements? i mean, we told them, like cuba, i mean they opened the said were going to help places like angola when they were facing british american apartheid racism in the south african troops. the why con rusher in china come to deal to help these countries in the face. so what's clearly,

i mean in the case of nigeria, we now know home facts about the nigerian leader and how we was related the to drug dealers in chicago. i mean, shortly now is the time for china and russia to start putting troops in africa to stabilize these countries from us, and they to aggression. well it's, it's pretty hot to command. so the security free of the course, most of them makes the invitation. i mentioned the invitation of governments of african not just moving in like the united states does. oh yeah. well actually uh the contemporary international relations have uh, different dimensions, right. and so the uh, business 300, just the through the division of security reasons long before the emergence of russian product military company is right. remember american companies in the,

in the vegas, for instance? so i would say that this is not just the russian, the french related to russell, because the russians copying that failed example of the americans. well, the, i will say that this is their favorite example, but there is a trend that social security for the security and security starts getting more diversified is the existence though, in the last date efforts in this business. do you think russia is going to give up the war of it, attrition and go for some kind of knockout blow and finish this. so we'll once and for all against that age or back forces in, in ukraine or is it is attrition. the way forward? well, what we see now is that the counter offense of for you bring in troops is instigating your thoughts collapsing some cars to the rush or operation the calendar events, obviously potentially i guess i'm not sure where the, the best of the, the,

the previous radio for negotiations uh the dresser uh and ready to be for the rest of the concerns. bob. so the fact that uh, their credit and coming through offense is collapsing. uh is uh, blistering the uh the rest of the positions. clearly, when, i mean this isn't anniversary of afghanistan as well. yeah, this month, the defeat of the united states as longest war and hollywood has not been able to even come to terms with that when it comes to soft power. the right. as we act as though, oh, culturally leads and nato nations are not able to come to terms with some of the natures recent defeats. do you think of russia, china, the brakes countries will ever be able to compete with the kind of cultural capital

that the hollywood and the big television corporations of new york have over the entire world? i mean, as far as i understand it is not that readily available in south africa amongst cables on cable operators. so there you have a cnn, and other i'll give all propaganda outlets and beaming out into the townships while the big stomach goes on. how i was trying to imagine some of the global south country is going to get that message very well it's, it's only easy to compete of bob. so actually what we see here is, uh that's a china bar rusher and the number of others, other or great powers of trying to promote their own beavens. and so the, the one products like designed like this. so when you look at the chinese seeking well for you to see what production it is now developing, wipes the wine tripoli, right? it's still comparable to what box?

actually, they are, why they few white white? well, in the domestic market, the domestic market is 1400000000 people, right. so it's quite a huge, i mean, just find the, some people say that the russian government and russian strategies have continually assumed the that their opponent is rational throughout this situation. the terrible tragedy of 14000 dead since we grew into you have in 2014. how far do you think biden will go in winning this war? as he sees it? of course we will lose, and then he will. how far is he going to go given the we now know booge in was hoodwinked by engel america and the rest of them at the minsk agreements. i don't know why boots and believe them right now is the think tanks like it was is the, is your ro rushing offense council prepared for how far biden is to go? whether it be 400 divide and then the contract or foot,

how tony blink and then the risk sees, what are the contracts but us hedge a monic bout? well, you see that what do you may have read? this is the class of different rest analysis. so on the one hand, it's fresh room for the united states to make a deal to dress and not to spend these huge resources to support the green. and so the to, to, to have to phrase the risk of risk of ation and including the situation to the nuclear colson. one the other hand, there is another chanel to meet your wise, the fuel defeat this year, all the loss of space, right? the, the, the, the, of the most read occasion, etc. so the question is, what are fidelity? we real a bit. now, of course it's pretty hot to to 45 of these are in any reliable way as i've been to move as i guess you and that's it for this year. we'll be back on

saturday with the penultimate episode of the season until then you can keep in touch my role as social media, if it's on sense and, and your country and head to our channel going on the run tv hon. they'll come to watch new and old episodes of going undergrad sees that day the the the the

the a e the so that they go to and so i don't remember the bundle episode in google. 40 the room was a guy that made a group of we'll call the low gains of shown in the corner was 70 dead. can you get