i pronounce that as well, so the, [000:00:00;00] the mouse sooner it has the and welcome back to going underground rule got single around the world from dubai in the u. a. well, what some build is the most important event of our lifetimes. finish this week in south africa. nathan nations like france bags for a brick, summers invitation, but were reportedly refused. so did the brick summit to finally seal the coffins of us and pi, currency and power joining me now from so it'd be as capital bell. great is the founder of the think tank bricks plus analytics, you know, stuff and it's a vote like he was previously at the i m f deutscher bank and the ration

development bank. thank you so much. i guys live so mean here across the world, but not in britain, the united states and the are be in union said this is a big deal in south africa. the fact that they tried to minimize it, even though india landed on the moon, and that is the i in breaks assign that there are a bit worried to deliberately, you know, covering it in a big way and even showing the speeches of uh, of the world lead is that we're at the summit as well, i think. so there's a lot to worry about. and besides the worst days, so many countries that are willing to join the breaks grouping that clearly this is a set to become more and more is the windshield in terms of the world economy. and then how many years. so there is one competition coming there way in terms of the competition that is likely to be faced by,

by the west. and i think this is only for the better in terms of where the whole economy is headed. this is more optionality, this is more of opportunities for, for various countries in the developing world and the, the, for the developed countries themselves as well as the farm, the gateways and the possibilities to work together with the brace to build a more stable and more sustainable international system, but clearly in terms of, um, you know, the, this, the, the signals that we're seeing from the west, especially with some of these issues such as the common breaks currency. we've seen a lot of carbons coming from the west in the past several weeks. and the run up to the summit, which means that yes, some of these projects that are discussed by bruce, are we some for uh, for uh, the west reserves. yeah,

but those 2 are connected may be one of one if they just have until the countries in the break let them in. and then they, they record. you know, i really think that there are possibilities. and there are formats that could be pursued by briggs to attract and see the binds. i say the develop the institutions uh from uh, uh, western countries uh, 2 bites uh, maybe later on the, the leaders themselves from the west to participate in. uh, some of the breaks uh, gatherings. uh, but uh this, this format i call is break slough. wow. says the format that is separately designed to pursue a greater um operation between the brakes countries and the western economies. uh,

that is something that has to be pragmatic. that has to be grounded in uh, you know, be facing and so kind of the interest of the developing countries 1st and foremost . and um, yes, i think uh, in terms of the 1st stages of that kind of cooperation is maybe possible for the development banks from uh say um europe or asia that have western participation to participate as well as the bretton woods institutions like the map light of the world bank, when we're ready to leave, this has to be done in secret. i mean, you know, the, the rail, the rubel, there will be the room knew me. and randall begins with our, i noticed the, you've, you commented on. i mean of, and of course of a, this saturday radio, which i think is some of the thing is the critical one destroying this petro dollar . you call it have, this would be your old, the workspace, the i m f involved shortly. i mean, they will, rick, it from the inside. these have to be secret because they market sensitive as

regards the dumping of us treasury bonds. i. i disagree. i think that the bruce, they have to look at the possibilities of the cheaper yes. the next stage of globalization, they have to really be guided by very substantial goals. and if it is about globalization, it is about a m, f word that has to be led by the brakes countries for the benefit of the global economy. it has to be inclusive, there's always a very boost of what it is and by the lot of developing countries. and it's who is for why not take on more and allow the, some of the western institutions. why the, why the world bank to participate in the discussions on certain issues, certain issues that have a bearing on the global economy. like for example,

issues that have to do with energy security and sustainability means development boosting. you can allow me to grow. i think that one piece of approach is, is supported actually, i think by most so where are you working? where are you working? when get that for you said that he wanted a common currency for africa. um that was um, probably probably i think um and then the which then yeah, well happen to get daffy you. you seriously think the international monetary fund, seeing is the persecutor of the entire global south in terms of debt, but instead of destroying the lives of ordinary men and women and children, tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of people should be invited into the brakes organization and isn't that symptomatic that somewhere in the core of this bricks, organization? there is a certain codger of who i think a some call them global lists that are destroying the real names of

a bricks new world. well, i think of is it depends really. um, this really slow, well format that i am uh, trying to advance. it depends on how this format the structure. if this is a store that is essentially championed and led by the british economies, the principles of breaks and the central lity. both the interest of developing countries will be taken into account. and this is a possibility. i think this broad format that allows for some part dissipation of the international institutions, including the international, the washington institutions they, um, they are all titled arrow institutions. those are actually, if you look at the statements of the brakes economies in the past several years,

the statements that come after the british summons. you will see that. ready they express the or for multilateral institutions, such as the w t o and they call, what did you make of that? because, i mean, clearly the w t o is not functioning a tool. i mean distinctions with the united states that just the 2 different countries. i'm not sure whether the way that was in the w to treat these, signed by the united states daily. the w t. o is dead or is dying. why? why is china talking about reforms of the w t o. when uh, showing the most people impartial looking at it. we'll see this is the natural end to what began with the riots in seattle at the turn of the century. well, i think good china ones and see how the markets as was to is a konami group, more open markets across across the globe fantasies. they was born in

w t o as instrumental in uh, creating a more open uh, international. i understand that, but how can you reform is if the united states weaponized sanctions against countries, it politically doesn't like all around the world and the united states is the biggest uh, economy not by b, b. well, i think the clearly, there are a lot of issues, a lot of problems with the w. c o. and we need to stand up between some of the major heavy ways that are members of the w. 2 will boot a more broadly between and develop them and developing countries. but there is no other way, i think in building a new mobile economic architecture. these elements, such as the w t o, such as the items such as the bank are very much needed in order for this new

crosstrek to be to be really for the benefit of uh, of the global economy and to work properly. because these are a multilateral institutions, there are balances, china, other developing countries are working together to fix them both. so that's the only way i think the working with a well within these institutions to, to uh, to create a more equal, more kind of inclusive, uh, framework is, is really the only way for, for us going for something is required. but truly, given that china is the biggest trading pack, couldn't the showing i cooperation organization create its own type of w t, o organization, excluding those powers that uh, considered by the global side, belligerent and those that they're trying to oppose them there, there is indeed a lot of talk about the possibility of mega regional arrangements,

some of the largest regional integration groups to essentially take over a trauma from the w t o and the place the organization. but then the data is because, well, we will end up with is most likely, you know, just several regions essentially driving the whole um, effort rather than is being multilateral in that same sense as will be the case in an international organization. so my proposal is really for the dom, you'd feel to be reformed in such a way that it includes mattress individual countries, but also regional blocks instead of buying for power. um for the w t a with these regional integration racial and why not work together with them for the benefit. ready of the global economy. okay. i, i'm sorry to interrupt, but you can't do that kind you because of the sanctions policies over electronics

and investment. i mean the britain a sanction one way in the united states. the how many chinese companies has sanctioned a chinese companies essentially in your over the united. so nato countries are, cannot be part of that process. i mean, they've got a sanction themselves that way. do you think brakes is prepared for the increase iops and intelligence? what i mean blue low is over the road. he's been on this program about the, the withdrawal with washington behind buffy. so that for guys a $3000000000.00, i am f debt warnings. in the week of the break summit, they got warnings from the i m f. and um, i mean the u. u. s. u. k or the old old at home, but war with china, the britain, this sentence aircraft carrier, the numerous times there, the united states is sending weaponry against china. base is all around it. and of course, is that war in the proxy war and ukraine against russia? well, left voice is really bad, so the base, the brakes didn't do,

and she do wish to focus on there right now, my abilities and the slides fixed. um, we see that apart from solely this issues, there also economic growth issues and, and most of the embrace economy. so the way to reduce your bond, the ability of the international stages is really to reduce, to the way possible your, an economic analysis. this is something that needs to be more of a focus for the bread of sewing forward in mind. you in terms of the economic agenda, in terms of the financial market agenda. there's not as the presence of that in um, some of the discussions that we've, we've been saying in the past, so years within breaks. yeah. shopping this of, oh my god, stop you that. well, from the founder of rick spots. i'm an ethics involving managing director of your asian development bank up to this break,

the, [000:00:00;00] the,

the, the, the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the founder of rick spots analytics and managing director of the region development back years of this of old. yeah, are as live in paul, one you were telling me about the fact that some of these bricks economies that are in debt or these global south economies that want to join brakes need to reform isn't the point that they shouldn't in any way, reform the way the i m f and world bank tries to make countries reform i tool and pursue of anything. i don't know, policy is a bit like the chinese communist, but he went to goldsboro, 800000000 people had to pull pharmacy directly against the kinds of ideas that were

emanating from the i m f and well back massive stage investment into, into smaller units. but still keeping the idea of chinese communism in life a little, the whole idea of the finding the race is precisely to create new options and to create scope for divergence and the models the big now we've developed them that are pursued by develop the economy. so absolutely, the platform that is created by uh, by brands and the formats of brands, los and institutions such as the dawson bank, basically a pass code for optionality and the possibility for developing countries to essentially choose between say that conditionality and is coming from the life so it'd be, i'm a, for the world bank or the options in terms of financing from the news fusions that are basically buying brakes and brakes. well, so this is,

this is about the show is this is about the finality. and this is precisely what the brakes. uh well the brakes are doing. um, is there any time of course uh there the will be i think uh, going forward. inevitably, a combination of sorts in between say the system or brenton was institutions and the system of institutions that is becoming more and more prominent controls. and bruce, and i think that that kind of competition is maybe slowly, maybe beneficial for the well, the con, sorry any, when any global sab lead to tries to pursue the economies and economics strategies different to that basically dealt out to the business schools of a leads in the your up and the united states, they get assassinated by the c i a. so what is the point of breaks coming out with

all these fruitful ideas of multi polarity, different ideas, allowing different countries to seek their own ways. if as a ally and as they converge on some they must be some economic convergence, is that alone for door? if they don't have a military, we as well, i see. so the, um, the key to successfully i am an economist. so from my side, the way i see it is we just wanna know and stream joe biden and calling to see if you saw the north stream economically. what happened to your lovely initially? i wanted to say this is use symbol a strong enough platform that has a lot of countries as is. ready basically the case with breaks now and breaks plus, then you will have a social rally in the world economy that isn't easily attract the best thing slows trade slopes. and, and this is essentially, i think,

the goal for uh for the brakes economies listening to what you're saying during the break summer. you saying it's not about our eyes having this with the west. it's about us trying to organize ourselves. and this is exactly the point to the developing world leads to organize itself and to render the alliances, visa, nomic, alliances that are out there be more structured just then in the same way that if you look at the developed economies, there alliances of, you know, their regional integration moves and others, there are very, very structured, very competitive then developing world on the basis of the platform of breaks plus the need to advance towards a, an alliance framework that way. i, sorry, i don't understand. here's how they can pass it to the village in the united states and europe is when a disaster are given me for europe. germany is in recession,

partly because of united states policies. it's a 1000 lines that it's destroyed. economic growth in the past 12 months is off to for you are a bits alliance with the united states economically as well. i mean, it will work for you. it may also be um, you know, options that they will explore increasingly as they see the brakes. economies are becoming more influential and increasingly become the center of gravity in the world economy. they will know how to, uh, page, twice about how the lines, there's been prioritization of auto alliances. they will start recording morning. ford is to uh, to the likes of brakes and i think it, yeah, it's um, it's important to cheat the door also for, you know, we said international organizations with western participation, but also regional integration blogs. and i think though, when the, when they talked about the bruce plus last spring,

we're that would allow for some western participation of course, during the 1st stage assignment, primarily you know, development, they situations that was really perceived primarily more of a pragmatic data bombing. adjust the way the birds we invite president the back on because i'm, i'd say, i don't know, he, i mean, i may ask him whether if he shows it and they gave it to you about that ability for the united states to ignore the success of brakes did you want to see the cheese in pain? looked angry during his speech about the western circle west and imperialism, over so many years old in bricks, in a, in a way that was far more on tagging his stick than what you had from lula. as well as the loan from loves. that'd be a boot and it'd be a to be say, yeah, i think the chinese approach is always that of patients. and the,

i think the patients is one of the keys to be success. the child is economy experienced in the course of the past several decades. yes, there, there will be, you know, conflicts, there will be frictions, contradictions with the west. the way that the no child that takes it in stride and continues to press its agenda of inclusive uh, risks of, you know, i think from the statements that we're hearing from uh, from china. it seems that they are actually open to the possibility of some wishing participation. further down the road is no longer true. we've done the bridge funded down the road when their economies have collapsed, may be. but in the interim, is it the case that actually china, some people are saying is going to have trouble satisfying their own demand at home, given the, i know in the, in the, in the nature of the nation press, they say drive isn't economic trouble. but within china,

there are obviously worries that, that it's going to be able to produce enough goods just as applied to markets. so why not just ignore your and then they do a nation powers that many in the global south believer being responsible for so much killing and destruction over these past years. and trade between the african latin american south east asia and the non washington. the line global countries of the east asia of the options, the better, so you shouldn't exclude the exports and well, they're the ones excluding in france. sure. but at the same time, i think if you look at china, you see the routes of the past years. the emphasis has shifted in terms of the role of i'm away from exports towards domestic demand for services and other drivers. and of course, domestic consumption. now for, for a variety of factors,

these drivers of a, we can some, well, and there's a need, i think, for the chinese economy to we discover and explore the possibilities of using exports as you know, as a waiting force and who's staying economic wrote and disregard bruce plus is, is a major asset because it opens up a large markets, global style to china is exports. and these are the markets that are making we closed in terms of the levels of import duties. at the same time. these are the markets that have uh, significantly higher growth rates than those of the developed economy. so i think for china, there may be assignment when you are sure on wednesday we discover the need to forward. you have a way to ask for support given the famously given the famous, the joseph burrell of the pharmacist and the rest of the worlds, the jungle,

and like the garden of your zip and the united states and european countries consider themselves well. the biggest threats to them, china, how would you expect them to sabotage all the plans of uh, brakes need is brakes committees, business development committees? have, are they going to use propaganda to affect market sentiment or are they actually powerless except for the miller trees to sabotage of the plans of the bricks? groups as well. i think let's say you seen in terms of the approach to groups and it was primarily essentially in the morning breaks insurance. so there is no meetings in terms of their agenda. now increasingly, i think this is something that is becoming more and more difficult. uh for the west simply because the agenda is so important and so critical towards the world economy

as a whole. and also for the uh, international financial markets. um, the theme of our fire, the, the currency is, is really the most important and the most widely. this does the right now with respect to break, are you dropping just on, on the, on the 5 isn't saudi arabia, the most critical member there. i mean, why, why do you think that we're not hearing more about saturday representation at breaks given it's a centrality to the global energy of will be able to live in i'm a different phone. i'm so sorry, a way to joining briggs because i think clearly, 1st of all, this is a major worse energy where so from the point of view of the longer sort of development of bruce, this is, this is of course a major asset. but um, the, the most important thing that i see one breaks is that each country represents a certain region of the global style. and so there is one region,

one of the few regions that is left out by the breaks in terms of coverage, if you will, or is the middle east and in the middle east, the leading economy is, uh, so you may do so in terms of weighting representation of the global south that makes complete sense for saturday raises to join the bricks and the how will the brakes system and all of these plans be effected if, as is opening, the being spoken about. now in the united states, a 2nd military front against china is opened up in the next. who knows, the way they talking, it seems to be, we seem to be months away from some sort of military confrontation in the south trying to see how that effect makes. plus, you know, i think the really, the, the guiding principle for breaks needs to be, to look through all of these difficulties. all these challenges, of course, to

a very ambitious and a very inclusive agenda with regard to brakes. plus, you clearly saw that when china, we launched the brakes plus a form of last year, the response from the global solve was tremendous tens and tens of countries was it's joy, a response. so i think that kind of st. lucie really opened this with regards to the global saw and also greater prognosis when we're seeing the economic powers of a british plus we'll, uh, you know, position. i think the brakes weren't far stronger position in terms of insurance. it matches the economy, but also international stature. yeah, it's not like thank you and that's it for the show will be back on monday to see if there's life in the old and by yet with the officer who was until recently commanding general of the entire united states army in europe with some 100000 troops were tied us to attend a general, ben hodges,

a head of the 2nd down about 3 of the us defeats in afghanistan until then. you can give it to us. why would i social media if it's not sensitive in your country? and then to a channel, i'm going i'll be going to give you a normal, don't come to watch new and old episodes of going on the go and see you monday, the acceptance. and i'm here to plan with you what liam do. do not watch my new shells . seriously. why watch something that's so different. opinions that he won't get anywhere else. what can i please or do you have the state department c,

i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do, don't want my shell stay main street because i'm probably going to make you comfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you think . the way to like call a magical place, fantastical ice clean water is a dramatic geography. and of course, a unique eco system which is developed over the past 25 to 35000000 years. and of