is that for linds intelligent services did not foresee that adding on nato in ukraine to arm and train neo nazis could potentially pull back right in their phases of a service. these have said, this is an exercise, the worst will not come, but the worst has come. the good news for berlin is that they can do a u turn at any time. so why don't they? maybe their box is in charge of navigation and directions and just keeps doing $360.00 degree turns instead of one eighty's ibex during i've general times the ongoing underground and will be back of the movie out the the

master. it has the and welcome back to going underground rule got single around the world from dubai in the u. a. well, what some build is the most important events of our lifetimes. finish this week in south africa. nathan nations like france bags for a brick, summers invitation, but were reportedly refused. so did the brick summit to finally seal the coffins of us and pa, currency, and power joining me now from so it'd be as capital bell. great is the founder of the think tank bricks plus analytics you are as love and as a vote like he was previously at the i m f deutscher bank and the ration development bank. thank you so much guys, live, so media across the world, but not in britain in the united states. and the are being union said this is a big deal in south africa. the fact that they tried to minimize it, even though india landed on the moon and that is the i in breaks assignment. there

are a bit worried, deliberately, you know, covering it in a big way and even showing the speeches of, of the world lead is that we're at the summit as well. i think so there's a lot to worry about. and besides the worst day, so many countries that are willing to join the breaks grouping that clearly this is set to become more and more influential in terms of the world economy in the years. so there is one competition coming there way in terms of the competition that is likely to be faced by, by the west. and i think this is only for the better in terms of where the world economy is headed. this is more optionality, this is more of opportunities for, for various countries on the developing world and the, the, for the developed countries themselves as well as the farm the gateways and the

possibilities to work together with the brakes to build a more stable and more sustainable international system, but clearly in terms of the, you know, the, this is the signals that we're seeing from the west, especially with some of the issues such as the common breaks currency. we see a lot of carbons coming from the west. ready in the past several weeks and the run off to the summit, which means that yes, some of these projects that are discussed by bruce, are we some for uh, for uh, the west reserves. yeah, but those 2 are connected. maybe one of one is they just have internet over countries in the brakes. let them in. and then they, they reckon, you know, i, i really think that there are possibilities. and there are formats that could be pursued by briggs to attract and see by

the say, the develop, the development of the institutions uh from uh, uh, western countries to binds maybe later on the leaders themselves from the west to participate in. uh, some of the brakes uh, gatherings. uh, but uh this, this format i call is brakes plus plus is the format that is separately designed to pursue a greater um operation between the brakes countries and the western economies. uh that is something that has to be pragmatic. that has to be grounded in uh, you know, be taking into account the interest of the developing countries 1st and foremost. and um, yes, i think so in terms of the 1st stages of that kind of cooperation is made possible for the development banks from uh say europe or asia that have western

participation to participate as well as the bretton woods institutions like the light of the world. bank where wherever, hey, lea, this has to be done in secret. i mean, you know, the, the rail, the rubel, the ruby, the room knew me, and randal begins with our, i noticed the, you've, you commented on. i mean of, and of course of a, this saturday radio, which i think is somebody saying is the critical one destroying this petro dollar. you call it have, this would be, i, your old, the workplace, the i m f, involved? surely. i mean, they will record from the inside. these have to be secreted because they market sensitive as regards the dumping of us treasury bonds. i, i disagree. i think that the bruce, they have to look at the possibilities of the cheaper as uh, the next stage of globalization. they have to really be guided by very substantial

goals. and if it is about globalization, it is about a m, f word that has to be led by the embrace, countries for the benefit of the global economy. it has to be inclusive, it is always very inclusive, and it is and by the lot of developing countries, and it's who is for why not take on board and allow the, some of the western institutions. why the, why the world bank to participate in the discussions on certain issues, certain issues that have a bearing on the global economy. like for example, issues that have to do with energy security and sustainability means development boosting. you can allow me grow. i think that will use of approach is, is supported actually, i think by most where are you working? where are you working when get after you said that he went to the common currency for africa and that was probably

probably i think um and then the which then. yeah, well happen to get angry. you. you seriously think the international monetary fund seen as the persecutor of the entire global south in terms of debt, but instead of destroying the lives of ordinary men and women and children, tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of people should be invited into the breaks organization and isn't that symptomatic, but somewhere in the core of this bricks, organization, there is a certain codger of who i think a something called in global lists that are destroying the real names of a bricks new world as well i think of is, is, depends really this really slow plus format that i'm trying to advance. it depends on how this format the structure. if this is

a form that is essentially champion and led by the bruce economies, the principles of breaks and be central. any of the interests of developing countries will be taken into account, and this is a possibility. i think this broad format that allows for some part reservation of the international institutions including the international their washington institutions they, um, they are all titled arrow institutions of the actually if you look at the statements of the brakes economies in the past several years. the statements that come after the break summons, you will see that the express support for multilateral institutions, such as the w t o and they call. what did you make of that? because i mean, clearly the video is not functioning a tool. i mean,

the distinctions with the united states that just the 2 different countries. i'm not sure whether the way that was in the w to treat these, signed by the united states. clearly the w t. o is dead or is dying. why? why is china talking about reforms or the w t o? when uh, surely, most people impartial looking at it will see this has been natural and what began with the riots in seattle at the turn of the century. a good simon ones and see how markets it was too long since they could not make roads more march across across the globe fantasies they was born and w t. o, as instrumental in uh uh, creating a more open uh, international. i understand that, but how can you reform it if the united states weaponized sanctions against countries, it politically doesn't like all around the world. and the united states is the

biggest uh, economy. nobody pvp? well, i think so clearly there are a lot of issues, a lot of problems with the w. c o. and we need to stand up between some of the major heavy ways that are members of the w. 2 will do a more broadly between and develop them and developing countries. but there is no other way. i think the in building a new mobile economic architecture. these elements, such as the w t o, such as the items such as the bank are very much needed in order for this new crosstrek to be to be really for the benefit of, of the global economy and to work properly. because these are a multilateral institutions, there are balances, china, other developing countries are working together to fix them. both the that's the only way i think the working with very well within these institutions to, to uh,

to create a more equal, more kind of inclusive, uh, framework is, is really the only way for, for us going for something is required. but truly, given that china is the biggest trading pag couldn't the showing i, corporation, organization create its own type of w t, o organization, excluding those powers that uh, considered by the global, south belligerent and those that they're trying to oppose them. there. there is indeed a lot of talk about the possibility of mega regional arrangements, some of the largest regional integration groups to essentially take over a trauma from the w t o and the place the organization. but then the data is because, well, we will end up with is most likely, you know, just several regions. essentially, they're driving the whole um,

effort rather than is being multilateral in that same sense as would be the case and international organization. so my proposal is really for the dom, you'd feel to be reformed in such a way that includes not just individual countries, but also regional blocks instead of buying for power. um for the w t a with these regional integration, racial ones. why not work together with them for the benefits of a global economy? okay, i, i'm sorry to interrupt, but you can't do that kind you because of the sanctions policies over electronics and investment. i mean the britain a sanction one way in the united states. the how many chinese companies a sanction a chinese companies essentially in your over the united nato countries are, cannot be part of that process. i mean, they've got a sanction themselves that way. do you think brakes is prepared for the increase

iops and intelligence warming? luna was over the road. he's been on this program about the the withdrawal uh with the washington behind it. but they saw that for guys the $3000000000.00 i am after the warnings in the week of the break summit. they've got warnings from the i m f. and um, i mean the u. u. s. u k is old, old and hold the war with china, the britain, this sentence aircraft carrier, the numerous times there, the united states is sending weaponry against china bases all around it. and of course, it was in the proxy war and ukraine against russia. well, left voice is really bad, so the base, the base didn't do, and she do wish to focus on there right now, my abilities and the slides to fix them. we see that apart from some of the issues, there also economic growth issues and, and most of the embrace economy. so the way to reduce your bomb, the ability of the international stages is really to reduce,

to the way possible your, an economic analysis. this is something that needs to be more of a focus for the brand. it's still going forward in mind. you in terms of the economic agenda in terms of the financial market agenda, there's not as the presence of that in uh, um, some of the discussions that we've, we've been say in the past. so years within brakes. yeah. shopping this of, oh my god, stop you that. well, from the founder of rick spots, i'm an ethics involvement, managing director of your asian development bank. up to this break the the welcome back to going underground. i'm still

here with the founder of brick spots on linux of old, a managing director of the region development back years of this of oh yeah. are as live in paul, one you were telling me about the fact that some of these bricks economies that are in debt or these global south economies, they want to join brakes need to reform, isn't the point that they shouldn't in any way, reform the way the i m f and world bank tries to make countries reform at all and pursue of anything. i don't know. policy is a bit like the chinese communist, but he went to goldsboro, 800000000 people had to pull poverty directly against the kinds of ideas that were emanating from the i m f and well back massive stage investment into into smaller units. but still keeping the idea of chinese communism a life a little the whole idea of the find, the brakes is precisely to create new options and to create scouts for divergence.

and the model is a big development that are pursued by develop the economy. so absolutely, the platform that is created by uh, by groups and before massive words, loss of institutions such as the end of the day, basically a passcode for optionality and the possibility for developing countries to essentially choose between. say that conditionality that is coming from the lives of the for the world bank or the options in terms of financing from the new institutions that are they created by bruce and bracewell. so this is what this is about. the issue is this is about the finality and this is precisely what the grace of what the brakes are doing. on the same time. of course uh there the will be, i think of going forward inevitably a combination of sorts and between say the system of brenton was institutions and

the system of the institutions that is uh, becoming more and more prominent controls and bruce and i'm think that that kind of position is maybe slowly, slowly, maybe beneficial for the will become historically when any global sab lead to tries to pursue the economies and economic strategies different to that basically dealt out of the business schools of a leads in the your up and the united states. they get assassinated by the c i a. so what is the point of breaks coming out with all these fruitful ideas of multi polarity, different ideas, allowing different countries to seek their own ways. if as a ally and as they converge on some they must be some economic convergence, is that alone for door? if they don't have a military, we as well i see to the, um,

the key to success really. i am an economist. so from my side, the way i see it is we just wanna know and stream job i didn't, according to see if you saw the north stream economically, what happened to your lease? so initially i wanted to say this is you assemble a strong enough platform that has a lot of companies as is so used to be recently the case with breaks now and breaks plus. then you will have a central reality in the world economy that isn't easily attract the best thing slows trade slopes. and this is essentially, i think the goal for uh for the bricks, the companies listening to what you're saying during the break summer is saying it's not about our as having this with the west. it's about us trying to organize ourselves. and this is exactly the point that the developing world needs to

organize itself and to render the alliance, so to speak, to nomic alliances that are out there, the more structured just then, you know, the same way that if you look at the bill of economies, there alliances of, you know, the regional integration moves and others, there are very, very structured, very competitive then the developing world on the basis of the platform of breaks plus the need to advance towards a uh, an alliance framework that way, i, sorry i do understand here is that how they can pass it to the village in the united states and europe has been a disaster are given me for europe. germany is in recession, partly because of united states policies. it's that the lines that it's destroyed. economic growth in the past 12 months is off to for you are a bits alliance with the united states economically as well. i mean, work for you may also be um, you know,

options that they will explore increasingly as they see the brakes. economies are becoming more influential and recently become the center of gravity in the world economy. they will have to think twice about how the lines has been prioritization of other lines is they will start recording morning. ford is to uh, to the likes of brakes and i think it's, yeah, it's, um, it's important to cheat the door open for, you know, we said international organizations with western participation, but also regional integration blogs. and i think so when the, when they talked about the bruce plus last framework that would allow for some western participation. of course, during the 1st stage assignments, primarily, you know, development institutions that was really perceived primarily more of a pragmatic nomic adjust the way the birds. we invite president the back on because

i'm, i'd say, i don't know, he, i mean, i may ask him whether if he shows it and they gave it to you about that ability for the united states to ignore the success of brakes. did you want to see that she's in pain, looked angry during his speech about the western circle, west and imperialism, over so many years old in bricks, in a, in a way that was far more on tagging his stick than what you had from lula. why is this a loan from loans? that'd be a boot and it'd be, it'd be saying. yeah, i think the chinese approach is always that of patience. and i think the patience is one of the keys to be success. the child is probably experienced in the course of the past several decades. yes, there, there will be, you know, conflicts, there will be friction contradictions with the west. but the way that the no child

that takes it in stride and continues to press its agenda, inclusive risks of, you know, i think from the statements that we're hearing from uh, from china seas that they are actually open to the possibility of some working participation further down the road is no longer true. we've done the break down the road when their economies have collapsed, may be. but in the interim, is it the case that actually china, some people are saying is going to have trouble satisfying their own demand at home, given the, i know in the, in the, in the nature of the nation press, they say drive isn't economic trouble. but within china, there are obviously worries that, that it's going to be able to produce enough goods just as applied to markets. so why not just ignore your, a, a and then they do a nation powers that many in the global south believer being responsible for. so much killing and destruction over these past years and trade between africa,

latin american, southeast asia, and the non washington, the line global countries of east asia as the war options the better. so you should exclude the exports and well, they're the ones excluding and fans. sure. but at the same time, i think if you look at china, you see the routes of the past years. the emphasis has shifted in terms of the growth paradigm away from exports towards domestic demand for services and other drivers. and of course, domestic consumption. now for, for the going back years, these drivers of a, we can so, and there's a need, i think, for the chinese economy to we discover and explore and beyond the possibilities of using exports as you know, supporting force and who's thinking on the road and disregard bruce plus is, is

a major asset because it opens up a large markets. the most out to china is exports. and these are the markets that are relatively closed in terms of the levels of import duties at the same time . these are the margins that how was significantly higher growth rates than those of the developed economy. so i think for china, there may be a time when you are sure on when they read this summer, they need to force your head with the way to ask for support given the famously given the famous, the joseph burrell of the farm is the rest of the world, the jungle, and like the garden of your zip and the united states and european countries consider themselves well. the biggest threats to them. china, how would you expect them to sabotage all the plans of uh, brakes need is brakes committees, business development committees, have,

are they gonna use propaganda to affect market sentiment or how they actually powerless except for the miller trees to sabotage of the plans of the bricks? groups as well, i think let's say you've seen in terms of the approach to briggs and it was primarily essentially um, you know, in the morning uh, breaks insurance. so there is no meetings in terms of their agenda. now increasingly, i think this is something that is becoming more, more difficult uh for the west, simply because vision is so important and so critical for the world economy as a whole. and also for the international financial markets. the theme of our fire, the, the british currency is the, is really the most important and the most widely. this does the right now with

respect to break hard to draw, but just on, on the off i've given saudi arabian, the most critical member there. i mean, why, why do you think that we're not hearing more about saturday representation at breaks given it's a centrality to the global energy of will be able to live in a i'm a different phone, so savvy, a way to joining breaks because i think clearly 1st of all, this is a major of course energy layers. so from the point of view of the longer sort of development of brace this is, this is of course a major asset. but um, the, the most important thing that i see when breaks is that each country represents a certain region of the blog. so, and so there is one region, one of the few regions that is left out by the breaks in terms of coverage, if you will, or is the middle east in the middle east, the leading economy is a saudi arabia. so in terms of weighting representation of the global south of

makes complete sense for saturday raises to join the bricks and the how will the brakes system and all of these plans be affected if, as is openly being spoken about now in the united states, a 2nd military front against china is opened up in the next. who knows, the way they talking, it seems to be, we seem to be months away from some sort of military confrontation in the south trying to see how that effect makes. plus, you know, i think the really, the, or the big guiding principle for breaks needs to be, to look through all of these difficulties. all these challenges, of course, to be very ambitious and a very inclusive agenda with regard to brace. plus. you clearly saw that when china we launched the brakes plus for math last year, the response from the global solve was tremendous. tends in terms of countries,

was it's joy, a response. so i think that kind of st. lucie really open this with regard for the global style and also greater progresses when we're seeing the coming powers of, of goods plus we'll, uh, you know, position. i think the brakes weren't far. ready position in terms of insurance that matches the family, but also a international stature. yeah, it sounds like thank you and that's it for the show will be back on monday to see if there's life in the old and by yet with the officer who was until recently commanding general of the entire united states army in europe with some 100000 troops were tied us to attend a general, ben hodges, a head of the secondary, about 3 of the us defeats in afghanistan until then. you can keep in touch viral social media if it's not sensitive in your country, and then to a channel. i'm going i'll be going to give you a normal don't come to watch new and old episodes of going on the go and see you monday the

i. 9 6 didn't even even dunbar too much without sale and whistles, nothing i've used to be there on the 5th floor is what i mean. let me let them slide down to this, but you can be a matter for the cell on the final part of the status of most of the stuff which is subject to the

the omega. repeatedly punch is on. pulses on a month, some of the ferrying potential intervention. i'm the folks on the bottom of the country as relation to the powers upon this opportunity flowed. as i robi, investigated. so allegations of abuse is a relatively young woman, allegedly killed by you the soldiers and can yet enjoy the 12 sink progress and then long struggle foreclosure since had death. we haven't been seeking justice, but nothing has happened so far. i think the british soldiers on actually the criminal ones they haven't faced and they've just digital wave enough to doing bad things. and inquiry is full of prostitutes.