in the coming years, so there is one competition coming there way in terms of the composition that is likely to be faced by, by the west. and i think this is only for the better and shows of where the world economy is said that this is more options ality. this is more of opportunities for, for various countries in the developing world. and the, the for the developed countries themselves as well as the farm the gateways and the possibilities to work together with the brace to build a more stable and more sustainable international system. but clearly, in terms of the, you know, b, this, the signals that we're seeing from the west, especially with some of the issues such as the common breaks currency. we've seen a lot of carbons coming from the west in the past several weeks. and the run up to

the summit, which means that yes, some of these projects that are discussed by bruce, are we some for uh, for uh, the western insurance. yeah, but those 2 are connected. maybe one of one is they just have until the countries in the brakes let them in. and then they, they reckon, you know, i really think that there are possibilities. and there are formats that could be pursued by briggs to attract and see by the say that develop the development of the institutions uh from uh, uh, western countries uh to bites. uh, maybe later on the leaders themselves from the west to participate in. uh, some of the brakes uh, gatherings. uh, but uh this, this format i call is brakes plus, well says the format that is separately designed to pursue

a greater um operation between the brakes countries and the western economies. uh that is something that has to be pragmatic, that has to be grounded in uh, you know, be facing and so kind of the interest of the developing countries 1st and foremost and um, yes, i think so in terms of the 1st stages of that kind of cooperation is maybe possible for the development banks from uh say um europe or asia that have western participation to participate as well as the bretton woods institutions like the light of the world bank. when we're ready to leave, this has to be done in secret. i mean, you know, the, the rail, the rubel, there will be the room to me in randall begins with our, i noticed the you've, you commented on. i mean of, and of course have a have a saturday radio, which i think is some of the thing is the critical one destroying this petro dollar . you call on have this with the, i, your old, the work place, the i m f, involved?

surely, i mean, they will wreck it from the inside. these have to be secret because they market sensitive as regards the dumping of us treasury bonds. i disagree, i think that the bruce, they have to look at the possibilities of the cheaper as uh, the next stage of globalization. they have to really be guided by very substantial goals. and if it is about globalization, it is about a m, f word that is to be live by them, breaks countries for the benefit of the global economy. it has to be included. there is always very inclusive and it is and by the lot of developing countries, and it's who is for why not take on board and allow the, some of the western institutions. why the, why the world bank to participate in the discussions on certain issues,

certain issues that have a bearing on the global economy. like, for example, issues that have to do with energy security and sustainability means development boost and you cannot make bro. i think that one piece of approach is, is supported actually, i think by most, where are you working? where are you working? when get that for you? said that he went to the common currency for africa. um that was probably probably i think um and then the which but yeah, well happen to get daffy you. you seriously think the international monetary fund, seeing is the persecutor of the entire global self in terms of debt, but instead of destroying the lives of ordinary men and women and children, tens of millions may be hundreds of millions of people should be invited into the breaks organization and isn't that symptomatic that somewhere in the core of this

bricks, organization? there is a certain codger of who i think a some goals in global lists that are destroying the real names of a bricks new world as well. i think of is, is because uh really, um, this really slow was format that i am uh, trying to advance. it depends on how this format the structure. if this is a floor that is essentially champion and led by the brakes economies, the principles of brakes and b centrally. both the interest of developing countries will be taken into account and this is a possible. ringback a, i think this broad format that allows for some parts reservation of the international institutions, including the international, the washington institutions they, um,

they are all titled arrow institutions. and actually if you look at the statements of the brakes economies in the past several years, the statements that come after the break. sometimes you will see that the express support for multilateral institutions, such as the w t o and they call, what did you make of that? because i mean, clearly the w t o is not functioning a tool. i mean, he sanctions with the united states that just the 2 different countries. i'm not sure whether the way that was in the w to treat is signed by the united states. clearly the w. d. o is dead or is dying. why? why is china talking about reforms or the w t o? when uh, surely, most people impartial looking at they will see this has been natural and what began with the riots in seattle at the time of the century as well. i think good china ones and see how markets as was to use this economic growth,

more open markets across, across the globe fantasies. they was born with w t o as instrumental in uh, creating a more open uh, international. i understand that, but how can you reform it if the united states weaponized sanctions against countries, it politically doesn't like all around the world. and the united states is the biggest uh, economy not by p b. well, i think the clearly, there are a lot of issues, a lot of problems with the w. c o. and we need to stand up between some of the major heavy ways that are members of the w. 2 will boot a more broadly between and develop them and developing countries. but there is no other way, i think in building a new mobile, you know,

trying to oppose them. there is indeed a lot of talk about the possibility of mega regional arrangements. some of the largest regional integration groups to essentially take over a trauma from w t o and the place the organization. but then the data is because, uh, well we will end up with is most likely, you know, just several reasons essentially by driving the whole um, effort rather than is being multilateral into some sense as will be the case in an international organization. so my proposal is really for the dom, you'd feel to be reformed in such a way that it includes mattress individual countries, but also regional blocks instead of buying for power. um for the w t a with these regional integration racial and why not work together with them

for the benefit. ready of the global economy. okay. i, i'm sorry to interrupt, but you can't do that kind you because of the sanctions policies over electronics and investment. i mean the britain a sanction one way in the united states. the how many chinese companies a sanction a chinese companies, a sanction in your over the united. so nato countries are, cannot be part of that process. i mean, they've got a sanction themselves. that way. do you think briggs is prepared for the increase iops and intelligence? what i mean blue low is over the road. he's been on this program about the, the withdrawal with washington behind it. but they saw that for guys a $3000000000.00. i am f debt warnings. in the week of the break summit. they've got warnings from the i m f. and um, i mean the u. u. s. u k, as all over at home, but war with china, the britain, this sentence aircraft carrier, the numerous times there of the united states is sending weaponry against china. base is all around it, and of course, is that war in the proxy war and ukraine against russia,

the well loved ones is really bad. so the base, the base didn't do, and she do wish to focus on there right now, my abilities and those slides fixed on we see that apart from solely this issues, there also economic growth issues and, and most of the breaks economy. so the way to reduce your bond, the ability on the international stages is really to reduce to the way possible your, an economic analysis. this is something that needs to be more of a focus for the bread of sewing forward in mind. you in terms of the economic agenda in terms of the financial market agenda, there's not as the presence of that in um, some of the discussions that we've, we've been saying in the past, so years within brakes. yeah. shopping this amount of stuff. do you that well,

from the founder of rick spots, i'm an ethics involvement, managing director of your asian development bank up to this break the the store not surely wouldn't be the last of the school anyway. not much of a lot of lots of them. well,

that's my personal opinion of the frontal and much anyone beach from, from source to the same set time it will show. so my total induced to pictures, you still have them over when approximately the students over the way 9 that is a c p low integer due to it here. but is good any issue, but have a crew to really but get to the my money or the law school or kimberly, tilda from me i'd be comfortable. so shame you them full of semester floor and it was really if they should change your dish. so you felt it possible to arrange them, they should more with pleasure, much more points to it. but i'm pretty sure it will. he will for use at the present except that they did when you cause they would be interested. yours the

welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the founder of brick spots analytics of old and managing director of the region development back years of this of old. yeah. or as live in paul, one you were telling me about the fact that some of these bricks economies that are in debt or these global south economies that want to join brakes need to reform, isn't the point that they shouldn't, in any way, reform the way the i m f and world bank tries to make countries reform i tool and pursue of anything. i don't know, policy is a bit like the chinese communist, but he went to goldsboro, 800000000 people had to pull pharmacy directly against the kinds of ideas that were emanating from the i m f and well back massive stage investment into, into smaller units. but still keeping the idea of trying these communism a life a little, the whole idea of the find the race is precisely to create new options, antiquated, scope for divergence and the models,

the big knowledge development that are pursued by develop the economy. so absolutely, the platform that is created by uh, by brands and the formats of brands, los and institutions such as they ended up and they basically a pass code for optionality and the possibility for developing countries to essentially choose between say that conditionality that is coming from the lives of be, i'm a for the world bank or the options in terms of financing from the news fusions that are, be read by breaks and breaks. well, so this is, this is about the choice. this is about the holiday and this is precisely what the grace of what the brakes are doing on the same time. of course uh there the will be, i think of going forward inevitably a composition of sorts and between say the system of bretton woods institutions and

the system of institutions that is uh, becoming more and more prominent controls and bruce and i think that, that kind of competition is made easily so that may be beneficial for the will, the con, sorry any. when any global sab lead to tries to pursue the economies and economics strategies different to that basically dealt out of the business schools of a lead. sit in the, your up and the united states. they get assassinated by the c i a. so what is the point of breaks coming out with all these fruitful ideas of multi polarity, different ideas, allowing different countries to seek their own ways. if as a ally and as they converge on some they must be some economic convergence. is that alone for door? if they don't have a military, we as well i see. so the um,

the key to successfully i am in the com is so from my side, the way i see it is we saw the know and stream joe biden calling to see if you saw the north stream economically. what happened to your lease? initially i wanted to say this is use symbol, a strong enough platform that has a lot of countries as is used. ready recently the case with brakes now and brakes plus, then you will have a central valley in the world economy that isn't easily attract the best thing slows trade slopes. and, and this is essentially, i think the goal for uh for the brakes economies listening to what you're saying during the break summer is saying it's not about our as having this with the west. it's about us trying to organize ourselves. and this is exactly the point to the

developing world leads to organize itself and to render the alliances, beacon, nomic alliances that are out there be more structured just then in the same way that if you look at the developed economies, there alliances of, you know, their regional integration moves and others there, they're very, very structured, very competitive then developing world on the basis of the platform of brakes plus the need to advance towards a, an alliance framework that way. i sorry, i don't understand. here's how they can pass it to the village in the united states and europe is when a disaster are given me for europe. germany is in recession, partly because of united states policies. it's a 1000 lines that it's destroyed. economic growth in the past 12 months is off to for you are a bits alliance with the united states economically as well. i mean, it will work for you. it may also be um, you know,

options that they will explore increasingly as they see the brakes. economies are becoming more influential and increasingly become the center of gravity in the world economy. they will know how to, uh, page, twice about how the lines, there's been prioritization of auto alliances. they will start recording morning. ford is to uh, to the likes of brakes and i think it, yeah, it's, um, it's important to cheat the door open for, you know, we said international organizations with western participation, but also regional integration blogs. and i think the when the, when they talked about the bruce plus las framework that would allow for some western participation, of course, during the 1st stage assignment, primarily you know, development institutions that would really pursue primarily more of a pragmatic data bombing agenda. wait, the birds,

we invite president the back on because i'm, i'd say, i don't know, he, i mean, i may ask him whether if he shows it and they gave it to you about that ability for the united states to ignore the success of brakes. did you not to see the cheese in pain? looked angry during his speech about the western circle west and imperialism over so many years, holding briggs in a, in a way that was far more. i'm tagging his stick than what you had from lula as well as the loan from loves. that'd be a boot. and it'd be a to be say, yeah, i think the chinese approach is always that of patients. and i think the patients is one of the keys to be success. the child is economy experienced in the course of the past several decades. yes, there, there will be, you know, conflicts, there will be frictions, contradictions with the west. the way that the no child that takes it in stride and

continues to press into gender of inclusive risks of, you know, i think from the statements that we're hearing from uh, from china. it seems that they are actually open to the possibility of some wishing participation. further down the road is no longer true. we've done the bridge funded down the road when their economies have collapsed. it may be, but in the interim, is it the case that actually china, some people are saying is going to have trouble satisfying their own demand at home, given the, i know in the, in the, in the nature of the nation press, they say drive isn't economic trouble, but within china there are obviously worries that, that it's going to be able to produce enough goods just as applied to markets. so why not just ignore your and the nature of nation power? is that many of the global that believe it being responsible for so much kidding

and destruction over these past years and trade between african latin american, south east asia and the non washington. the line was countries of the east asia of the options, the better. so you should exclude the exports and well, they're the ones excluding in france. sure. but at the same time, i think if you look at china, you see the routes of the past years. the emphasis has shifted in terms of the growth out i'm away from exports towards domestic demand for services and other drivers. and of course, domestic consumption. now for, for a variety of factors, these drivers of a, we can some, well, and there's a need, i think, for the chinese economy to we discover and explore and beyond the possibilities of using exports. as you know, as a waiting force and who's staying economic wrote and disregard bruce plus is, is

a major asset because it opens up a large markets. global style to china is exports. and these are the markets that are relatively closed in terms of the levels of import duties. at the same time, these are the markets that have uh, significantly higher growth rates than those of the developed economy. so i think for china, there may be a time when you are sure on wednesday we discovered the need to forward your head with the way to ask for support. given the famously given the famous, the joseph burrell of the pharmacist said the rest of the worlds, the jungle, and like the garden of your zip and the united states and european countries consider themselves well. the biggest threats to them, china, how would you expect them to sabotage all the plans of uh, brakes need is brakes committees, business development committees?

have, are they going to use propaganda to affect market sentiment or are they actually powerless except for the miller trees to sabotage of the plans of the bricks? groups as well. i think let's say you sees in terms of the approach to groups and it was primarily essentially in the morning breaks insurance. so there is no meetings in terms of their agenda. now increasingly, i think this is something that is becoming more, more difficult. uh for the west, simply because vision is so important and so critical towards the world economy as a whole. and also for the international financial markets. the theme of our fire, the, the british currency is, is really the most important and the most widely. this does the right now with

respect to break, are you dropping just on, on the all 5, using saudi arabian, the most critical member there? i mean, why, why do you think that we're not hearing more about saturday representation at breaks given it's a centrality to the global energy will be level of live in i'm a different phone. i'm so sorry, a way to joining briggs because i think clearly 1st of all, this is a major of course energy layers. so from the point of view of the longer short of development of bruce, this is, this is of course a major asset. but um, the, the most important thing that i see with the brakes is that each country represents a certain vision of the global style. and so there is one region, one of the few regions that is left out by the breaks in terms of coverage. if you will, or is the middle east and in the middle east, the leading economy is, uh, so you radiate. so in terms of weighting representation of the global south that

makes complete sense for saturday raises to join the bricks and the how will the brakes system and all of these plans be effected if, as is opening, the being spoken about. now in the united states, a 2nd military front against china is opened up in the next. who knows, the way they talking, it seems to be, we seem to be months away from some sort of military confrontation in the south trying to see how that effect makes. plus, you know, i think the really, the, the guiding principle for breaks needs to be, to work through all of these difficulties. all these challenges, of course, to be very ambitious and a very inclusive agenda with regard to brakes. plus, you clearly saw that when china we launched the brakes plus for math last year, the response from the global solve was tremendous tens and tens of countries was

it's joy, a response. so i think that kind of thing was the really open this with regards to the global saw and also greater prognosis when loose thing, the economic powers of a british plus we'll uh, you know, position. i think the brakes were far stronger position in terms of insurance. it matches the economy, but also international stature. yeah. so i have this about like thank you and that's it for the show will be back on monday to see if there's life in the old and by yet with the officer who was until recently commanding general of the entire united states army in europe with some 100000 troops are tied us to attend a general then hodges ahead of the secondary of us 3 of the u. s. defeats in afghanistan. until then, you can keep in touch viral social media if it's not sensitive in your country and then to a channel going, i'll be going to give you a normal don't come to watch, new and old episodes of going underground see monday, the

release of russian states never as one of the most sense community. most all sun set up the same assistance must be the one else holes. question about this even though, and we will then in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on rochester routing and split the r t sports net, keeping our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. the question, did you say to stephen twist, which is the,

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the on the list actually today is literally, i mean the machine is the last time you have open as you'll see them. but it so you, it's a good sample. nobody lives moga through, but you are required to swing this, that you may have a bleach. and if it's that is not just the that's the color. so we have that issue reduced in 1964 on the side of the mass executions in the small village of limits here. memorial was commissions created by skill to fell about rubbing it and find out tom, which became known as the wall and of sorrow. was established around it unfortunately