[000:00:00;00] the i'm action or time seeing welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world. it's 2 years since the longest about war and us history ended with the cycle inside of escape of fleeing us troops from afghanistan . today, the us as involved in a war and your report according to us and european officials in the new york times . ukraine has too many soldiers in the wrong places, with hundreds of thousands dead under biden's political opponents. judging negotiations, what's next? nature senior mentor for logistics. lieutenant general. ben hodges was commanding general of the us army in europe during the minutes agreements on ukraine. he commanded the 100 and 1st evelyn in operation iraqi freedom was the director of military operations in kind of afghanistan, and he joins me now from frankfurt in germany. lieutenant general,

thank you so much for coming on going underground. we've had assistant secretaries this day during natural security advises. presidents never come under of the anti us. so i mean your of, i have to say, so let's just start with them. i don't know what you thought of the salzburg in york times claiming its sources, told them from the us administration on your a p invalid that ukraine just has too many soldiers in the wrong places. that's why it's all going wrong. yeah, well i'm, i'm always annoyed with people from a 1000 miles away making commentary or judgments about technical situations of people who are actually on the ground in the fight, especially when they choose to be nameless. so i, i would pay no attention to the assessment. i trust the ukrainian general staff. yeah, he said before a trip to you don't like goes a judge rose from thousands of miles away. what would you have done then on the cold as a video? cool. according to the times on the 10th of august 20 twenty's rate,

general mark mealy the u. k. so tony rather can with your kind of counterpart on the account of bonds that need to come under of us was in europe. and the general christopher canolli, who is your successor and difficult generals illusion, and key of what would you have said on the video. cool, then as to how to go forward without anything to secret. i know you've emphasized the importance of keeping information. the secret a lot of times. well, i certainly would have told the chairman 1000000 admiral rack and um, who uh the we would have never sent american or british soldiers into an attack like this without having already achieved full total air superior already. so criticisms of ukraine for maybe going a little bit slower than we'd all like without having given them the means to do it the way we would like is, i think of unjustified and, and frankly not very helpful. hello. but i think that the ukrainians have done

a good job adapting to the situation on the ground. and we know from history no plan survives 1st contact and the winner is usually the side is able to make the application most quickly. ukrainians have decided to focus on destroy and russian, artillery and russian logistics. and that will eventually make it easier for them to finally get through these. mine fails. i mean, how can you say that it's going well if 14000000 they've left the country, there may be 400000 dead. that's a figure, the colonel mcgregor said don't talk the calls in the interview. he of course, has a full of authentic and advise that maybe a $100000.00 plus wounded, hundreds, surrendering tens of thousands of amputees. how is that going? well? well, if mcgregor is your source, then our conversation is probably going to come to a close. he's. he's been wrong from day 0 on all of this and he goes kremlin talking points at every possible opportunity. there have not been 14000000

ukrainians leave the country. there certainly have been millions of russians. they have left a boarding conscription avoiding mobilization. there is no doubt that ukraine has suffered many casualties without a doubt, nobody, nobody has that. and there are, i think, 4000000 ukrainian refugees that are, that have left ukraine to avoid what's happening in their country. but i think that russia actually has a bigger manpower problem then, does ukraine, you won't fill up a school bus with a number of russian soldiers that actually want to be in ukraine today. so you don't believe there are 300000 in reserve, in case the united states, and just the fans. as absolutely not. i mean, british intelligence just a few months ago said that they thought about 98 percent of russian forces were committed in ukraine. so we've been hearing reports about huge russian forces being built up. i mean, i guess they're going to issue them wouldn't sticks. there is no equipment to give

them. so no, i don't believe there are 3. there is no, there's no equipment for the russian forces. why did the odds and ends key fire? huge traunches of the government then over the corruption. and among the conscription scandal, the officials responsible for conscription. we seem videos, of course, on line of or if it treat not beat it out to the web browser, the not why, why would he not? i mean, they haven't been calls for ukraine. hey, you've gotta clean up your act. so he's doing exactly what you would expect, the leader of a liberal democratic government to do which is hold people accountable to be transparent. he has, i think, taking huge steps to try and change the culture and the perception of the culture of corruption inside ukraine. look and it's, it's not a monastery there, that's for sure. but i think what they're doing off funding for their survival is remarkable. and the u. s. government and i suspect the,

his majesty's government is the same on the equipment that is provided to ukraine. the accountability of all of these things is very, very strange, but assess the job of the officers that are deployed there to help make sure equipment goes to where it's supposed to go. so i might have great confidence and then we'll, we'll look into that further here in a moment. we have had xerox many on instruments with the spinny report about pentagon procurement as to what's happening regarding corruption when you are intimately involved with the war in ukraine because you supervised forces. i mean, tell me about that trip you made to key of in 2015. was it a optim in school one that collapsed? i understand that you were there to what were you doing and you have, we have the mission, a us army, you're a to help provide training for you granting soldiers. they had a large training area at a place called yahveh. reeves in western ukraine near the city of levine. our task was to turn that training area into

a training center. something like what we have at home fellows germany, for example, with cadre and, and to give me credit in battalions and eventually brigades a place where they could train and prepare before they deployed to what was then called the h e o, the anti terrorism operations on so i was, i was in and out of ukraine, probably a dozen times during 1516 and 17. you don't think that was a violation of them. it's a codes. i mean, were you responsible for the troops of the 22nd of january 2015 that killed the wounded, 33 in a bus, shelving the 100 civilians who died in over russia and, and don't bother us. you train these people who killed all the civilians in don't the us. so i think you're, that's quite a leap to say that add train them the ones who killed them for sure. i'm very proud

of the job that we did with this several different battalions of ukrainian troops that cycled through the training center. i am not familiar with what unit might have committed that it, whether it was an accident or for whatever reason it happened. i don't know anything about huge supply to close that vehicle. do great. you don't think that that was a violation of immense one which was from september. the 5th 2014 i had to administer to which is on the 12th of february 2015, wasn't the supplying of the kodak um vehicle because i understand you met with the us and the advocacy of on the same day. okay, i don't know what occurs there. are the vehicle is, i mean you don't, you don't think anything you were doing was in violation of minutes. could agreements absolutely not. mean anything more in what way we, we were providing training and you have a range of 4 ukrainian battalions and cycled through to improve their capabilities. i'm from having

a hard time the following year. all how this might have been a violation of an e mail sco agreement again because that gives the person l a carrier. and we now know from angular michael to then john's the to minutes agreements are a way to um and present the train the ukrainians ahead of conflict. so were you not an intrinsic part of that violation of the principles of mints, which is ratified of the un security council on the 15th of february, a un security council resolution gigi 02. and the way to get information from training is not a violation of minutes. what they agreed to and may i ask, of course, was to pull back. and i think the o. s. c, the organization for security and cooperation in europe. when would tell you that about 90 percent of the cease fire violations came from the russian side? so maybe you probably should should talk to them. but training and then of course

the u. s. government made the decision to provide counter prior radar to the ukrainians during this period. that happened during my time there and we helped train them and that was continuously frustrated that we could not get approval to provide javelin and to tank weapons to them. at least during the 1st 2 years of this march 2015. you said there's direct russian military intervention, eastern ukraine. and then the german secret service said that just a few um vehicles. so why do you think the germans back then was saying about what you were saying and for the breed love supreme commander of nato forces us who are being combined. they were saying this is dangerous propaganda that there are 40000 troops on the board. you know why i'm asking these questions because i'm, i'm growing increasingly curious. i'm asking these questions because what it seems

to be is that you were capitalizing this conflict. because why i know that's what you're saying. there were 40 bought of this as the german secrets of it's being these a propaganda operation saying the russians were about to invade wind rush. it was, but it gets fades in the minutes agreements, which as we know from bank of america, we just deploy or yeah, there's 0 proof that russia was putting any faith in the mask agreement or any proof that they were living up to the mask agreement. so i, i am having a hard time figuring out why you think i personally was helping to catalyze to this conflict. what actually happened. you can be sure that i was doing everything i could within my authority to help the training and soldiers be as well prepared as they could possibly be. i was at the same time working with ukrainian general staff to encourage them to be more transparent with their defense budget so that the writer could have oversight over defense spending the way we do in the us and other

western countries. i've visited multiple different ukrainian sites, industry sides of headquarters. i wanted them to be as ready as they could be. that was, that was my task. did you meet people from the as of fatality? and now i had did not met no one's of the as a battalion because of course that would it being against the bipartisan amendment, boston has a representative. i representative joan connie is who outlawed ols aboard for the, as a battalion for its nazi orientation. so if we go back to what was like to be the come on or the us army in your, do you not reflect on the fact that hundreds of thousands dying and your now is part of a legacy of failure by us forces in your what do they are about a 100000 us forces the now the last time there was a war in europe. was it the destruction literally of yugoslavia. and that ended up as a nato, as

a sort of training ground for those who would come at $911.00. we know it's only been locked in strips were in bozeman draining. so what, what do i mean, are you pretty, have you been protecting national security for the united states in your so i would tell you that the war russians war against ukraine. now, here's what failed deterrence looks like. the failure of the west to react strongly after russia invaded georgia in 2008. the failure of the west to enforce president obama's red line after russia supported the assad reading using chemical weapons against their own people. in syria and the failure of the west react with any real consequence after russia's invasion of ukraine in 2014. and then you add that to the fact germany was still built in north stream to as late as the been to 2021. and we loved a mess,

have with our withdraw from afghanistan and our own domestic problems in the united states after january the 6, you could almost imagine how the kremlin would assume that they would be able to roll over to cranium forces. and that there was no way the west, the united states, germany or any of us would be willing to stick together. but the way we have. so that's what i mean, that failed deterrence, the russians were pretty sure they could get away with this. and so i think if we failed, if we failed and demonstrating that we were going to help ukraine defend itself and hold russia accountable. so yes, miles will accept that criticism interest and to the blinking themselves that the chemical attack was not a slam dunk man. he said it was a false flag, lieutenant general, ben hodges, i'll stop you the bullet from the form of commanding general of us army in your, in current nature of senior manual for logistics. after this break,

the american voters are rarely interested in for policy during election cycles. but a said the issue between maybe the exception this time around particularly of g o p voters, much of the republican base us our w brain policy. they see it is by the the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the right side. there's have the general band hall just the former commanding general of us army in your been covered nato, senior, mental, full logistics. when you were uh before you became come under of the us army in europe at the $500.00 and 1st and born. it's 2 years uh this week that the us left,

i've gotten a somewhat well is the 100 and 1st ambling because you know, people find it difficult to remember all these different divisions different. i mean, is it complicated enough as the other day someone was saying, how many 4 star generals there are now in the u. s. military? so what is the 100 fast dabbling? so if you ever served in the 100 and 1st airborne division, of course, you know, because the student ever be confused about who and what it was, it is one of the 10 at the time, 10 divisions in the us army. a division typically has somewhere between 1516000 soldiers in it. i was a brigade commander, a colonel in the 100 and 1st airborne division, commander of the 1st brigade during the invasion of a rack in 2003. we ended up spending most of that 1st year of the war in north, in the rec, uh south of south of moses as are 4 different times in that division. so you would

say that was my regiment. that was who i was most affiliated with. when i was in tactical units was, i was traveling time because, i mean, i remember i read the famous film scarf faced by brian depalma. you only made one future film after that. which school redacted by the 100 and the sample. and stephen bale green, who uh, who went into a housing memory, a rape to 14 year old go shorter in the head, then shorter assisted than show their parents dead in iraq. is that the 100 and for example, know we were never in my for the but well he saw him for the 100 revised terrible. ok. peyton, he may have at some point, but i'm certainly not during my time. what i am troubled about is that for 20 years and they're right and 20 years, they have kind of stand. we never had a clearly defined objective except for the very 1st year in both of those places. after that,

none of the administration's republican or democrat was able to clearly articulate a clearly defined objective while we're here. and so you end up spending uh almost 2 decades and trains of dollars and lost thousands of wives of our own. not to mention everyone else that was killed or injured a wounded um without having accomplish what we originally set out to do because no president was able or willing to say, this is our objective. whatever and fan is everyone kind of says that kind of thing . now when the 2 of trillion dollars is left to be the us public money, but why did people lie in the $100.00 for us? they have one about what's happening in afghanistan. come, major general jeffrey, show us a. this is in the washington post, which i had 2000 documents linked to them, said in an interview, we're making some steady progress in 20 o 8. while we now know secretly this 101st able and come on to was urgent the

pleadings. the more us reinforcement seeing failure, and we know that mike flint, who is a ghost became national security advisor is being ongoing underground. questioned the entire policy while it was going on. what's wrong with the 100 revised ambling that members of this division knew secretly was going wrong, were making public segments that were the opposite. that's stopping the united states public from understanding the where they were spending so much blood and treasure on. ok, well you're, you're about as wrong as you could possibly be. this is not about the 101st airborne division. this is about all of us and across the us military is a 100 and 1st was only a small part of what was there. so i don't, i don't know where you get your conclusion from, but now you know, major general jeffrey schlosser. yeah, of course i did. and, but i can tell you also when i was in the, i'll be honest. but 1st of all, when i was interact 2 times,

i feel very confident myself at the end that we had made progress because we were having to come up with metrics such as how many iraqi battalions have been created, how many schools have been built? how do you know, how many elections have been held because there was no clearly defined political objective? so the objectives became something that could be measured. and so i felt very good about what we had done in the 1st year. i was there, and that was there again, year 3 of the warner, right, where i was responsible for operations all over your rec, as a crown. and then in afghanistan, i was there from the summer of 2009 until the end of 2010. i really thought, you know, there was good. this was working. i mean, i really thought it was working. now obviously working as well as the ukrainians are working right now against the russians. okay, this is not even though it's, that's a ridiculous comparison is 2 completely different situations. what i'm trying to say is that the federal slows are not lying. all of us were doing our best to

try and meet the mission. whatever is protect atkins, building were actually capacity funding jobs for people, so they will do something other than build i indeed, that's what we're trying to do. and i really thought when we left afghanistan can are specifically at the end of 2010. i thought this might actually work, obviously, as i look back on it and watch the con, the catastrophic end of the war in afghanistan. i realize that, you know, we're, i'm a little older and wiser. we never had an objective. no american taxpayer ever paid a penny for that because no president ever had to explain it to them and raised the taxes. and so most of the american population was disconnected from and we thought pakistan would be an hour. obviously they were not a way to allow tell a band to have safe haven there. then we also made a huge mistake and i was part of the problem. we built and ask in security force

that looked like us, which is great. as long as you have english logistics, overwhelming firepower, and thousands or contractors. and you take those away. this ask in security force that look, nothing like half getting culture collapse and that that was a failure. there's i can't, i can't walk away from that. as you said, it was great, but you use it. it's great. i mean, what name of all of the united states military is one that isn't actually the u. s . military better at assassination? you know, it was successful, killing lumber and congo. drawer he lived in dominican republic. i ended chile in the past. and then it's successful, a destabilizing in terms of cruise, but into the military operations, actual military operations. it fails everywhere he goes. i mean, we've already just named iraq afghanistan because libby areas in k o syria in k us and you know, he's being sold event with cuba, society 9. and there's

a higher life expectancy and coo within the united states now. okay, i'm, i'm not sure what question you're, you're asking me is the u. s. military that you come on did in your useless and a waste of us public money and tax best money. while people die in hawaii may be a 1000, died in a way in the past few weeks. people have used palestine in ohio still do not have clean drinking water at home. a 1000 a week, a shot dead into things. okay. none of that has anything to do with the u. s. military, but i can tell you this. the u. s. military exist to protect the united states and by being the highest level of readiness which every other army in the world 6 to emulate. you know, we have deterred russia, china and others from ever attacking the united states. that's our principal purpose, the power we perfect, you know, of course not. right? so you thing, and you thought about this when you will come minding general,

come 100 of us army in europe, the china and the russia wanted to invade, invade the united states, or allies w at tech. maybe you didn't, you didn't seriously think the rest of your china wanted to invade the united states. i know you're not listening because you don't want to russia. we know the soviet union, we know had plans to attack european countries. they did a tag. you're being countries that were as in eastern europe and they, we know they had plans to attack with, i'm sure i'm talking after the full of the soviet union panel and expenditures going out obviously after us support for the majority and in afghanistan, which moved into the 911 attacks which increased the pentagon budget, but you surely didn't think when you were in your to the united is russia and china wanted to invade the united states. again, you're not listening for sure. we yeah. so no, did you think they want to do that?

that they were going to try said they were going to attack our allies, that russia, without a doubt, would have if we were not prepared. and if they thought they could get away with it, they would have a tag into baltic countries. um they, they saved us all the time to talk about this all the time. they, they clearly have would have done more if the way i said not stuck together and stop them after their attack into ukraine. you know, of course, they would, china has demonstrated that they're willing to use all sorts of different means to threaten our allies in the, in the pacific region. and so if you think, if you can step back from this conspiracy theory of yours, you could imagine that the west in the philosophical way of the west, which would include korea, south korea and japan, for example, as well as astray a. this is weird, we're getting ourselves organize the international rules based order from which we evolved benefited since the end, right,

or 2. but which china and russia both hate we're, we're getting our sales organized to prevent them from damaging this order, which is the best chance to help give people a some kind of a prospect. and the liberal democratic society is the prospect. i think just one final question, i just say the rules based order in the global south, especially after the break. some it doesn't really play very well given there. on 53, guatemala, 50 for costa rica in the fifty's syria. 5657 egypt, 57 indian easier. 58 bridges beyond the 53 north vietnam. 4373. allow 59 congo. 196-4165, brazil. 62. cuba. 59, bolivia, 65 on the list. so the rules may as door to that alone, that prison guantanamo is still there. when president obama wanted to close down, doesn't it show the president doesn't actually have the power? who was controlling use of the come on to of us forces in your

a really we know now they're leading presidential candidates r f k junior, and trump of course, others opponents, the ones that ukraine would wind down and have negotiations and stuff, the money. what do you think of there's something in it that actually the u. s. military is good at this aspirations in the stabilizer countries and r f k. juniors is killed his father and his uncle, j, f, k. they go to the stabilizing u. s. society and international society. and i'm not a conspiracy. there's everything i'm asking is just factual. yeah. and so you think that u. s. military has something to do with the death of john f. kennedy and robert, the military industrial complex that eisenhower referred to look at. i don't, i don't know where you get your questions from or how you doing your research. well, you know, when eisenhower said, or if k junior is not a leading candidate, donald trump has been indicted for time from about 71 or 91 different charges against him. i seriously doubt he's going to be present again. he certainly

shouldn't be. but he was interested in that long list. you went through most of those were 60 or 70 years ago. so do we have a perfect record? of course not. but i would say this, i would put our soldiers up against russian soldiers, chinese soldiers. and you can count an american soldier, do everything they can to protect innocent people and protect what it is that we're supposed to be doing. yeah, that kind of general manager as thank you. i. thanks for that training. that's over the show will be back on saturday to talk about the i m f and world bank and the shadow of bricks with world bank w h o level prepared this monitoring board economist message, i think, gosh with until then keep in touch for will that social media, if it's not sense it in your country and add to a channel going undergoing tv on normal dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground. suzanne,

the american voters, are rarely interested in for policy during election cycles. but it said the issue between maybe the exception this time around, particularly among t o p voters, much of the republican base as our

w brain policy. they see it is vice for the. the problem says president, my boss says he's a boy, a movie division in the, by the, to us prolonged and as locals in the i'm a voice that i'm the again look for the new power. i don't see the point for the french and best offer from students here the same in our time frame to stand the frame. survivals of states, which seems to be the ones that they have to be defined. several china is on the move, her rough things to the dressing is release of nuclear waste into the civic and