[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to the parts history and doesn't repeat itself, but it often drives and the mark twain were alive to they might have added particularly saw in practice on the walls. 5th most populous country has long found itself at the crossroads of the regional and global politics, which has made internal power struggles, old and warrenton tends. where is lama, but likely to be up to the current political and legal crisis as well as to discuss it. i'm now and join bunch of ed jabbar, former pakistan is sen. federal minister,

an officer. senator jabar. it's a great pleasure, great honor for me to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. is my pleasure. thank you very much. we'd like to know focused on politics has never been particularly adult, but i think you would agree with me that the sequence of events, or which began with the ousting or the removal from power all the former prime minister in runtime. it is not petering out and it's draining the country's resources, it's taking away attention from other pressing social challenges. i'm sure there are lots and lots of factors contributing to these dynamic. but what do you think is the chief one kind of what has happened since april 2022, in a sense, is that all the chickens, the chickens of contradictions and distortions. zip monica,

it's street have come home to roost in the past 60 to 70 months. which is not to, in any way underestimate or under value the profundity of the crisis that we are going through. but only to suggest that this is the outcome of it. it started the process by which we have tended to allow institution or distortions within our system. distortion that as it is actually then in balance between nitro save a treat. most of this fit, the legislature, the executive and the judiciary. but that does not cover the 4th to pay that which is the military. now the military and practice on this part of the executive, and yet it is a domain offered for barkley, because the civil political leadership over the past several decades. a has constant be but method. the sender approached on

a part of the domain. and partly because the ministry itself, as it we and as a result of this mutual sandia to respect, lives for a totter, gm's responsibility, we are very, we are to do for the last 70 bucks. and then each one, sir, yes and senator, i know that you have argued in your writing, but this is not the 1st time the attack is done, finds itself in, in, inside situation. you wrote the current events remind you of the conditions 33 years ago when the 1st cabin and by the 1st female moslin prime minister and as they're put to was dissolved also under a seemingly legal, pre taxes. and what are the similarities there? the similarities here that as in 1990 there was a could you imagine between the ministry and the then the civil political process. that good news is there. however,

there is one major difference and that drive the hill street. oh, really good, significant follow is not present in the year 2023. that office has been a mess you later. it's positive be more and it has become really a saturday morning enforced. however, that vacuum has been more than made up by the extraordinary strands and in fact that the ministry has acquired with the consent of the 4 digit leadership. so that mocks in basic difference. however, the next is that a good that there is conflict. they've got, there is a d, there's a postponement which has not happened in that instance 33 years ago. this time would truly appreciate didn't generally be construct, you know, different nations or the time frame the beach election should be here at the federal level. and the provincial lives have be disregarded,

and that is why we didn't do it all most uncertain. now, uh, as you have suggested, a tax of convenience and contrivance are rarely very stable. and the pakistani history has many examples of them falling apart. how long do you give the current crisis, despite all the delays and all the disregards of the sub schedule for elections? and uh, when do you think it will leave your country? but i see the future and it is on it is unwise to predict the future. but as far as i can see over the next the proceeds, 16 months, i see it happening and don't see is the 1st phase has to be the forwarding or predictions. and it is growing a convergence and humanity even amongst 4 digit pin forces, even though one major part of that component does not yet agree to setting the time

limit as soon as possible, but they really come at all. now when that happens, it brings in the, in bonded, over with the elections will truly be free and that they just assume that they will be free a bit. that will then convince the next phase. because those who knows, i'm not going to necessarily accept the validity of the election. and therefore, or there are bound to be intrinsic challenges. both economic and political in structure that we will be inheriting and getting over from the past 3 or 4 years. those that aren't going to disappear, only because the election to be the head of many people are saying there's only elections and that's really, really solve the problem. i with respect and i'm really disagree. the basic institutional challenges the back and going to be sure to be ready to address with

a combination of the big dynamic risk driven coverage. uh, the gift capacity to compromise and to withdraw all the accesses that we have become accustomed to in all these institutional demands. now. uh, you also wrote about the fact that while um, sort of the dynamics or the tactics of various parties seem to be the same, the people's ability to learn about that. and, you know, the, the openness to public exposure of what's going on is different in 2022 in 2023. but it's one thing for the public to know what's going on. and it's another thing to have the mechanisms to actually change the situation. what, whether to the courts or through uh, public voting. i'm particularly interested about the legal system of practice done what role hasn't been playing in either montane based uh, old dynamic or resisting it. i'm trying to, i will take the liberty of pre,

facing my humble opinion about the going into your different aspect by pointing out that elections in another sense will not be conclusively representative of public opinion. because in my view, in the country where on the average only 50 percent of the people take the proper vote off of the populations, political views will not be represented as the outcome. and as it is due to the absurdity of the 1st past, the post system, a body or a candidate will stick yours only 10 or 15 percent of the vote becomes the a toddler t for the next 5 years. which is obviously not a non representative. and yet elected form of government. and those contradictions will also come to the senators, those contradictions, existing, any and democratic system, don't they? i mean,

this is something that the account to do away with the weekend because as i have been suggesting for some years now, we should introduce the concept of compos city voltage, which is practiced by over 20 countries. that said, let me turn to the question of the 2 ports, which is the role of the, the good sector that you just showed sector. the additional sector has had a very mixed record in our district. at some point they have given very negative decisions, which i don't believe pre inter bench on the other. they have tried to re dress a boss mistakes by declaring that any intervention any disruption of the constitutional process is going to be illegitimate. and therefore, capable of be trusting us. only general setup was accused of present. his appeal is still pending and the supreme court watching now,

which seems to be likely to happen is that in the middle of september, we will have a new chief justice who is already acquired the reputation for being very outspoken or being very progressively supportive of the democratic wants, did you wish that process and not been doing any good on the constitutional intervention, but instead your is only going to be for one. yeah. and it depends what happens after that one year. indeed, for example, you just possible the doing that. can you all the bench whichever the constant you would so the quarter, the whole, we dig something very important decisions. one of the deals for justice, especially for the party that has been watered out of office. it for trinity, trinity to lead by the farmer brand new district about now can i ask you something and correct me if i'm wrong here because i think i may have an overly idealistic

view. uh, but it seems to be the package that it would have would be giving extra credence to the concept of legality because of the professional background or all of your founder. well, some of that be, janelle school was a very talented barrister, and for whole, as far as i can gather the concept of truth and dedication to your country to the service of, of your country related concepts. and one can see, do not support your is everywhere in pakistan to this day. but i wonder if the spirit and connecting choose authenticity with the service to your country. whether that sort of attitude is still a life and present them on government officials. what's a good reference to a minute? mr. jenna is worthy of respect or 2 things. number $14.00 would truly sing good ended, be outreaching out the new building,

the british and the congress. a party of india which bitterly oppose the creation of factory stock. and the ultimate, you would at least 5 of the most slim organizations of $31947.00, which also oppose the creation of pakistan. but to meet you have now become the custodians are not only practiced on but of islam, etc. it's not, but the way they have done that. so just a general was truly the picture of it or how and on divided focus on the tools and on justice can be given concrete shape. or that the supreme court and the legal sector in the country can rise to that level. is an open question? yes, i think and in practical terms, sometimes the legal and the judicial sector have shown the will and the capacity to rise to put example oppose. the i'll be pretty dismissive of the chief justice of

pakistan when jim was shut up, was in power as does and to a very stand lawyer is more more the chief justice was restored to office and that they've done that to another crisis. so at some point, you should be showing that capacity to stand up for the truth. and there are other instances where the test step did, and a pretty good at the costs, and yet on the other, they frequently lapse. and because don't take the time, not doing that, and they give it to the shadow of the broke off legality or interpreting the law in a certain matter. well, uh, sanitary, i guess we will have to wait and see. and for the time being taken very short break, but we will be back in just a few seconds. sentient,

the look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're so shorter is that conflict with the 1st law show your mind, anticipation. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to trace a trust, rather than sit the various shots with the artificial intelligence, we have somebody with the news, a robot must protect his phone. existence was on

the executive and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. several opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do. don't want marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the waiting thing. the, the welcome back to the parts of the venture bar for my pakistan is senator federal

minister and also a sen. just before the break, we mentioned the name of my mother, jeanette, who was also very mindful of the hall and isaac practiced on both mentally and culturally from foreign influences. in my introduction, i mentioned the pakistan happens to be a very important regional player. uh, baldwin into the various intricate uh, power play in asia. and i wonder if uh, in your opinion of those power struggles that we have been discussing and that has been plaguing uh, practice done over the last year and a half has anything to do with the brother external geo political competition. you're quite right to ask that question because the very physical location of practice thought, even after the care of it, just sent to creation of the country and 1971 that remains extremely vivid to

in terms of global geo strategic dimensions. it's this month at the cost of $3.00 major agents, sophie, issue a central asia and risk issue with access to the c. so what has been happening in fact is thought can be partly linked to what the major global bond have been contesting with each other for space for influence. what impact one of them is not a global by its neighbor. and i'm not just pointing the finger to india because i don't like and deal and i have a deal, whatever. i respect the people of india, it's a great civilization that they have present dustin's pocket sondra present the greatest, the black vision. but from the word go, an artist on his head to be extremely careful about the influence of the

online ones, the india mex from time to time. with other box at one time, india was very closely aligned with the soviet union. and we had to therefore, as every action, a c country support because india had publicly declared its ministers, they've said boxes that should not last more than 6 months now in a country as vulnerable as v. well, we do rings divided by a 1000 miles of australia. debbie, we would like to become members of a defense patch led by the usa and big fortunately of the seventy's, we withdrew from both of those alliances and joined the non line. oh, i mean, we're all also pursuing a very uh, pretty independence foreign policy as of uh, the last couple of years. and i have to say that i was one of the last 4 and your newest, your interview and brought home before. so you travel to restaurant, uh,

something that has given rise to speculations that uh his uh, they both of no confidence against him that remove him from power may have been instigated by the american officials. and i know that some of those allegations or speculations at this point are being considered and be practiced on, of course. but do you find this plausible, do find something like this, knowing the structure or the covers implants as within they practice on a politics. do think that something like this could be possible without reading too much into that. i just want to be fist my response by pointing out to you folks, i know that middle of 5060 years ago, at your time going to be with a member of the communist batch lodge, the emd against the soviet union. we also became the 1st country of the world to open up an international link with communist china b j,

and be signed an agreement with them in 1962. so focused on the diplomacy to a great credit, as shown, the capacity to manage a very delicate balancing act, while maintaining relations with both communist countries and the rich. now, in this case, in the year 2022 brand new broadcom decided to visit moscow den shouldn't was not to condone or support any action that bless y'all may take visited the ukraine while he is you have no way of knowing that point i, i've enough but if i have seduce me, absolutely. and therefore, therefore it, it's a completely flaw deduction, that the restaurant analysts a, made a blaming iraq con for being there on that day when that decision was sticking. it was not, is responsibility. and since then, yes,

a very strange sequence of events took place and there is that condition to link is removal from office directly to the corporate plans of washington dc. however, i would add a caviar. why is the it was certainly the most upset with the blog cons visit to moscow, i think by then a blog con, him, so head in the adapted many segments of the 4 digit pin spectrum. and instead of became very valuable. chad and he did not detect in time. what would have been done to prevent that brought of confidence and in the middle of your drawing, give this very strange cipher cable from the washington on the box, sending a message during a conversation that you had with a u. s. senior government official. and that came up, wisconsin to publicize recently by the us outlet. it was very clear that the us

government was not happy with the government to be about con, and that it would probably be f p a. if another government know that is a very clear indication, regardless of whether they then could you do with certain members of parliament or political leaders and bucks on i don't think they did. i would not attribute it for that, but that was giving a signal. and you can send a cipher, sorry, you didn't send the site for our diplomats and decipher, but a spot in government can communicate it's preferences to countries for digital leadership. in many ways that need not be a bit to. they can be rubber, they can be cetera. they can be symbolic, but the read all the due respect. uh let, let's pause here for, for a moment because you speak about that as if it's, you know, something would seem that a foreign government. let's say you're united states government would communicate

it's preference is governmental preferences for who should lead um, you know, another country and such a laser for fashion. it may seem that it's, it's okay, but it's not. i mean according to the, oh, so you're following father. uh, we mentioned a couple of times already. it was not okay, that was the reason why she wanted to establish the state of practice done so that your people can exercise their own silver and right into to pursue that own destiny . is it okay? that's really even such a global environment when the american officials evenly met in this uh, you know, a somewhat comfortable yeah. yeah. no. can i, i mean i agree with you a diety. i mean, the overbuild me body of the people like a song have on visitors, images, and do foreign influence on our policy. and they have focused on the us are key because the us is a major noble for us. but it also has played

a critical going to different points. it barks onto the street, and we have what speed do added to your relationship with the united states. on the one hand, we, it's the cover intervention, or even the all word signs. on the other hand, because of estrada the culture, english language in trade business connections with the west housing, dropbox, hasanti, tens of thousands of focused on these have family members living in the united states. we have a strong trade relationship on a problem not just explore market is the usa, n o b receive any benefits from the us. so it's so many do are lipstick, relationship that we have. we have to acknowledge the, the, you know, the, the not just phone, but i scholarship program in the wood offered by the us is to practice on these partners. so that's one example of how our cosign has been due to benefit while

does then take this influence on practiced on the general public interest, yet, can i ask you one last question about that? because our time is running out. but i really like the term that you port coined to describe the current state of affairs impact of some. but i think it also applies more broadly. the term, your coins is a partial lower, which is not neither explicitly martial nor ethically civil. and they've combined these politicized use of it off here with the selective justice and in your you've been a very active advocate for, you know, people taking a hold of the own future. and, you know, rather than invested interest determining how the country is supposed to develop, where is the starting point for bringing it about? how can we actually as a global community, how can we truly arrive at this point where governments will indeed be care taking

and taking care of people's needs rather than vested or institutional interests? that's true or trying to i think it really required the emergence of visionary, but they just need to ship bought in the 74 digit code rather than add in the ministry that and then i said the ministry rather because the military doesn't want it doesn't lift it's cheaper, bobby stopped and it stop generous. it's on internally done. or of course, the prime minister of the country approves the appointment of the cheaper bobby stop now on the car. the previous chief of bobby's job video coverage in the, in the summer about security dialogue. april 2020, to publicly stated that in order to face the new realities of the 21st century and the challenges impacting stop bases, the parks out all because the bed is strategy to reduce its human strategy not to

weaken the capacity for defense, but to rationalize it and to make it more effect, you know, that shows the willingness of the army to face new reality. you know, the cutting cheaper bomb east out as the, to reach it. that is all to be consistent in the willingness or the desire not to interfere in the particular process. however, on the ground that has to be given beach and flesh and blood, not in a destructive sense, but in a sense, a printer between as going by the fast, the box that army has produced cheap. so if i'm you stop, go have it stand. we have deliberately, it's jan from corner to go to bench. it will generally when he talks it, it'd be 199394 period there with john. you said i'm

a head board participation in the good process. so if the army has that capacity is a proven capacity, and the civil political leadership should search, etc. it's legitimate, martin, will it take the right to provide leadership by branding its own capacity and not assigning responsibility for all the security policies, nuclear weapons, policies it to the ministry by sending during that use trend and institutions and view improvements in the foreign policy process or the security area which is cost is jointly shared responsibility and so it can be done well, i'm can be done and therefore i look forward to that. yeah, i'm also looking forward to the then that i just only want to add the image on hand . didn't look like somebody who was eager to surrender. she is the responsibility of those domains and yet the just political troubles are still in going. but uh, you know,

history is the ultimate drive. so all the best thats back is done and thank you very much for joining us today. thank you for asking. thank you, and thank you for watching hope to see her again on the world's the part the, [000:00:00;00] the oh the,

the the, the, there are lots of width of lower organizations out there, especially in the united states, western europe in australia. but many of them are very parochial, they focus on narrow subjects or issues rather than focusing on the mental well