subject incident of 3 citizens being killed entire as being 7 fire security situation. and the 3rd cook has now stabilized prompting the residents to urge the federal government officials to is to control over security in the city and enforce the rule of law for all its inhabits. we see above, i should go with those of the new stories, the shapes, the we k on off the international. i hope you had a great weekend, whatever you got on save money as we discussed. thanks bye much vehicle. the . the

hello and welcome to the part history and doesn't repeat itself, but it often drives and the mark twain were alive to they might have added particularly so in practice on the world's 5th most populous country, has long found itself at the crossroads of the regional and global politics, which has made internal power, struggles, old and more intense. whereas is longer but likely to be after the current political and legal crisis and also discuss it. i'm now and join, but jeff edge of our former pakistan is sen. federal minister and officer. senator jabar, it's a great pleasure, great honor for me to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. it's my pleasure. thank you very much. we'd like to now talk histones politics has never been particularly adult, but i think you would agree with me that the sequence of events, or which began with the ousting or the removal from power, all the former prime minister and we're on the home. it is all figuring out and

it's draining the country's resources, it's taking away attention from other pressing social challenges. i'm sure there are lots and lots of factors contributing to these dynamic. but what do you think is the cheap one? china? what has happened since april 2022, in a sense, is that all the chickens, the chickens of contradictions and distortions that monica. it's street have come home to roost in the past succeed to 17 months, which is not to in any way underestimate or under value. the profundity of the crisis that we are going through. but only to suggest that this is the outcome of it. it started the process by which we have tended to allow institution or distortions within our system. distortion that as it is altered event in balance

between nitro save a treat. most of the state legislature, the executive and the judiciary. but that does not cover the 4th, which is the military. now the military and practice on this part of the executive . and yet it is a domain offered on barkley because the civil political leadership over the past several decades has constant b, but make it the sender of which on a part of the domain. and partly because the ministry itself is it we and as a result of this mutual sandia to respect lives, the otter gm's responsibility we already are to do for the last 17 class. and then each one, sir. yes and senator, i know that you have argued in your writing, but this is not the 1st time to practice done finds itself in, in inside situation. you wrote the current events remind you of the conditions 33

years ago when the 1st cabin and by the 1st female moslin prime minister of their put to was dissolved also under a seemingly legal pre taxes. one of the single averages there. the similarities here uh that as in 1990 there was a could you imagine between the ministry and the then the civil political process that could use it is there, however, there is one major difference and that drive the hill street. oh, really good. significant power is not present in the year 2023 back office has been a mess you later. it's positive be more and it has become really a saturday morning enforced. however, that vacuum has been more than made up by the extraordinary strands. and in fact, that the ministry has acquired with the consent of the 4 digit leadership. so that

mocks in basic difference. however, the next is outages that there is conflict. they've got, there is a, this is a post sport mark which has not happened in that instance 33 years ago. this time would truly appreciate didn't kidley be construct, you know, different nations or the time frame with the beach election should be here at the federal level and the provincial level, it'd be just, any god and veterans drive. yeah, it didn't go in all, most uncertain. and now uh, as you have suggested in packs of kind of ends on contrivance are rarely very stable and the progress on the history has many examples of them falling apart. how long do you give the current crisis, despite all the delays and all the disregards of the sub scheduled for elections? and when do you think it will leave your country?

but i see the future and it is on it is unwise to predict the future. but as far as i can see over the next day, per se, a 16 months, i see it happening and don't see is, is, the 1st phase has to be the forwarding or predictions. and it is growing a convergence and unanimously, even amongst 4 digit pin forces, even though one major part of that component does not yet agree to setting the time limit as soon as possible, but they really come at all. now when that happens, it brings in the, in ponder over with the elections will truly be free and fair. they just assumed that they will be free of that, that with the comments the next phase. because those who knows, i'm not going to necessarily accept the validity of the election. and therefore,

there are bound to be intrinsic challenges, both economic and political in structure that we will be inheriting and getting over from the past 3 or 4 years. those that aren't going to disappear, only because the election they've been here. many people are saying there's only elections and that's really, really solve the problem. i with respect and i'm really disagree. the basic institutional challenges the back and going to be sure to be ready to address with a combination of the big dynamic risk driven cottage, the gift capacity to compromise, and to withdraw all the accesses that we have become accustomed to in all these institution of domains now uh, you also wrote about the fact that while um, sort of the dynamics or the tactics of various parties seem to be the same. people's ability to learn about that. and you know, the,

the openness to public exposure, what's going on is different in 2022 in 2023. but it's one thing for the public to know what's going on. and, and it's another thing to have the mac can, is to actually change the situation. what, whether to the courts or through uh, public voting. i'm particularly interested about the legal system of practice done what role hasn't been playing in either montane these old dynamic or resisting. and i'm trying to, i will take the liberty of piercing my humble opinion about the going to the different aspect by pointing out that elections in another sense will not be conclusively representative of public opinion. because in my view, in a country where on the average only 50 percent of the people take the traveler or off of the populations, political views will not be represented in the outcome. and as it is due to

the absurdity of the 1st past, the post system, a body or a candidate will sick yours only 10 or 15 percent of the vote becomes the a toddler t for the next 5 years, which is obviously not non representative. and yet elected form of government. and those contradictions will also come to the senators, those hours, addictions exist in any democratic system, don't they? i mean, this is something that they've kind of do away with the weekend because as i have been suggesting for some years now, we should introduce the concept of compos city voting, which is practiced by over 20 countries. that's it. let me turn to the question that you pause, which is the role of the legal sector that you just showed sector. the additional sector has had a very mixed record, you know,

is at some point they have given very negative decisions, which i don't believe pre inter bench on the other. they have tried to re dress a boss mistakes by declaring that any intervention any disruption of the constitutional process is going to be legitimate. and therefore capable of b pressing us. only general setup was accused of present. his appeal is still pending and the supreme court. what knowledge seems to be likely to happen is that in the middle of september, we will have a new chief justice who is already acquired. the reputation for being very outspoken or being very progressively supportive of the democratic wants that you should have processed and not been doing any good, unconstitutional intervention. but instead yard is only going to be for one. yeah.

and it depends what happens after that one year. indeed, for example, it is possible that doing that, can you all the bench whichever the constitute. so the court is the who we dig something very important decisions. one of the deals for justice, especially for the party that has been watered out of office. it for trinity, trinity to lead by the former bank, the district about now can i ask you something and correct me if i'm wrong here because i think i may have an overly idealistic view of but is this to be the pakistan would have would be giving extra credence to the concept of legality, because uh, on the professional background, or all of your phones or will come up. that'd be janelle, who was a very talented barrister and for whole, as far as i can gather the concept of truth and dedication to your country. to the service of, of your country. what related concepts and one can see do not support your is

everywhere and practiced on to this day. but i wonder if the spirit and connecting choose authenticity with the service to your country. whether that sort of attitude is still a life of the present, the moon, government officials, what's a good reference to the minute vista jenna, is worthy of respect or 2 things. number $14.00 would truly sing good ended, be outreaching out the new building, the british and the congress. a party of india which bitterly oppose the creation of factory stock and the ultimate new word. at least 5 of the most slim organizations of $31947.00, which also oppose the creation of practice done, but which has now become the custodians are not only part his son, but of islam itself. it's not but the way they have done that. so mr. jenna was

truly the picture of it or how and on divided focus on the tools and on justice can be given concrete shape the way that the supreme court and the legal sector in the country can rise to that level. is an open question? yes, i think and in practical terms, sometimes the legal and the duty shall set to have shown the will and the capacity to rights to put example oppose. the i'll be pretty dismissive of the chief justice of pakistan when jim was shut up, was in power as president and to a very stand lawyer. it's more money. the chief justice was restored to office and that they've done that to another crisis. so at some point, did you do city as showing that capacity to stand up for the troops? and there are other instances where it has stepped in and it pretty good the cause

and yet on the other, they frequently laps and don't take is the top notch condone of a. and they give it to the shadow of the rope altogether. tea or interpreting the law in a certain measure. well, uh, senator, i guess we will have to wait and see and for the time being taken very short break, but we will be back in just a few seconds statement. the device administration in nature world are fascinated with soft power and rhetorical ships. remember, ukraine will when and ukraine is winning. now we hear rush, it is loosing and even brushes as last. narrative manipulations do not change hardware

the or the the welcome back to the parts going to a venture bar for my talk this time is senator federal minister and officer, a senator, just before the break, we mentioned the name of mohammed,

that'd be janelle, who was also very mindful of a deep hole on isaac practiced on both mentally and culturally from foreign influences. in my introduction, i mentioned the practice and happens to be a very important regional player. uh, baldwin into the various intricate uh, power play in asia. and i wonder if uh, in your opinion of those power struggles that we have been discussing and that has been plaguing uh, practice done over the last year and a half has anything to do with the brother. uh, external geo political competition. you'll what tried to ask that question because the very physical location of focused on, even after the care of it, just sent to creation of the country and 1971 that remains extremely vivid to in terms of global geo strategic dimensions. it's this month at the cost

of treat major agents, sophie issue a central asia and risk issue with access to the c. so what has been happening in the bucket stop can be partly linked to what the major global bonds have been contesting with each other for space for influence. what impact one of them is not a global by its neighbor. and i'm not just pointing the finger to india because i don't that i can deal or i can deal whatever. i respect the people of india. it's a great civilization to do. now. present dustin's pocket sondra presented rich civilization. but from the word go, an artist on his head to be extremely careful about the influence of the online ones, the india mex from time to time. with the other box at one time,

india was very closely aligned with the soviet union. and we had to therefore, as every action, a c country support because india had publicly declared its ministers, they've said boxes that should not last more than 6 months now in a country as vulnerable as be, well, we do rigs divided by a 1000 miles of australia debbie, we would like to become members of a defense patch led by the usa and big fortunately of the seventy's, we withdrew from both of those alliances and joined the non line. oh, i mean, well, all the pursuing a very uh, pretty independence foreign policy. as of uh, the last couple of years and i have to say that i was one of the last 4 and your newest, your interview and brought home before. so you travel to restaurant. uh, something that has given rise to speculations that uh his um

they both of no confidence against him that remove him from power may have been instigated by the american officials. and i know that some of those allegations or speculations at this point are being considered in the pakistan of course. but do you find these plausible, do find something like this, knowing the structure or the covers implants as within they packed, assigning politics. do think that something like this could be possible without reading too much into that. i just want to be fixed my response by pointing out to you folks, i know that middle of 5060 years ago, at your time going to be with a member of the communist batch lodge, the emd against the soviet union. we also became the 1st country of the world to open up an international link with communist china beasley and be signed an agreement with them in 1962. so focused on the diplomacy to its great credit,

as showing the capacity to manage a very delicate balancing act, while maintaining relations with both communist countries and the rich. now in biscuits. in the year 2022 brand new broadcom decided to visit moscow. the intention was not to condone or support any action that bless y'all may take reserve the ukraine while he is. you have no way of knowing that point that i know for the fab seduce me. absolutely, and therefore, therefore, it, it's a completely flaw. deduction, that the restaurant analysts a, made a blaming involved the con for being there on that day when that decision was taken . it does not is responsibility. and since then, yes, a very strange sequence of events took place and there is that camp dish and to

link is removal from office directly to the corporate plans of washington dc. however, i would add a caviar. why is it was certainly the most upset with the blog cons visit to moscow? i think by then a block on him said had india dated many segments. so the 4 digit for the spectrum and it says became very valuable. chad and he did not detect in time. what would have been done to prevent that lot of confidence and in the middle of your drawing, give this very strange cipher cable from the washington on the box, sending a message during a conversation that you had with a u. s. senior government official. and that came up, wisconsin to publicize recently by the us out click. it is very clear that the us government was not happy with the government to be about con,

and that it would probably be f p a. if another government don't, that is a very clear indication, regardless of whether they then could you do with certain members of parliament or political leaders and bucks that i don't think they did. i would not attribute for that, but that was giving a signal. and you can send a cipher, sorry, you didn't send the site for our diplomats and decipher, but a foreign government can communicate it's preferences to countries for digital leadership. in many ways that need not be a big time. they can be rubber, they can be cetera. they can be symbolic, but the read all the due respect. uh let, let's pause here for, for a moment because you speak about that as if it's, you know, something would seem that a foreign government, let's say your united states government would communicate it's preference is governmental preferences for who should read, you know, another country and such

a laser for fashion, it may seem that it's, it's okay, but it's not. i mean, according to the of both your following father. uh, when we mentioned that couple of times already. it was not okay. that was the reason why she wanted to establish uh, the state of practice done so that your people can exercise their own silver and right into to pursue that own destiny. is it okay? that's really even such a global environment when the american officials evenly met in these uh you know, a somewhat comfortable yeah. yeah. no. can i, i mean i agree with you a diety. i mean, the overbuild me body of the people like a song have all visitors, inches and do foreign influence on our policy. and they have focused on the us, partly because the us is a major noble for us, but it also has played a critical going to different points. it barks on state street and we have what

speed do added to your relationship with the united states. on the one hand, we h, the cover intervention, or even the all word signs on the other hand because of his product through the culture, english language in trade business connections with the west housing dropbox. as sony, tens of thousands of parks on these have family members living in the united states . we have a strong trade relationship on a problem, not just explore. markets is the usa, n o b receive any benefits from the us. so it's so many do are the stick relationship that we have. we have to acknowledge it, that the, you know, the, the not just phone, but i scholarship program and the word offered by the us is to practice on east partners. so that's one example of how our cosign has been due to benefit while it is empty. this influence on practiced on the general public interest,

yet can i ask you one last question about that because our time is running out. but i really like the term that you port coined to describe the current state of affairs, talk to somebody. i think it also applies more broadly. the term, your coins is a partial lower, which is not neither explicitly martial nor ethically civil. and it combines this politicized use of it off here with the selective justice and it you are, you've been a very active advocate for, you know, people taking a hold of the own future. and, you know, rather than invested interest determining how the country is supposed to develop, where is the starting point for bringing to the about how can we actually as a global community, how can we truly arrive at this point where governments will indeed be care taking and taking care of people's needs rather than vested or institutional interests. that's true. i will try to, i think it really required the emergence of visionary,

but it just need to shift bought in the 74 digit code rather than add in the middle of treatment. and then i said the minute treat rather because the military doesn't want it doesn't lift, it's cheaper, bobby stopped and it stop generous. it's on it to enter the done. or course the prime minister of the country approves the appointment of the cheaper bobby. stop now on the part the previous chief of bobby's job video coverage in the, in the summer about security dialogue it for 2020 to publicly stated that in order to face the new realities of the 21st century and the challenges impacting stop spaces, the parks on avi has the bed it strategy to reduce its human strategy not to weaken the capacity for defense, but to rationalize it. and to make it more effect,

you know, that shows the willingness of the army to face new reality. i know the cutting cheaper if i'm east out as the to reach it. that is all to be consistent in the willingness or the desire not to interfere in the particular process. however, on the ground that has to be given beach and flesh and blood, not in a destructive sense, but in a sense of printer between ad going by the past, the box that army has produced cheap. so if i'm you stop, go have it stand. we have deliberately, it's jan from corner to go to the bench. it will generally when he talks it, it'd be 199394. be there with john. you said how much a board participation in the 4 digit good process. so if the army has the capacity

is approved, wouldn't get passage, and the civil war, digital leadership, true as such as circuits legitimate. martin will you take the right to provide leadership by building its own capacity and not assigning responsibility for all the security policies. nuclear weapons, policies it to the ministry by center entering that use trend the institutions and view improvements in the foreign policy process or is the security area, or which is cost is jointly shared responsibility. and so it can be done well and can be done. and therefore, i look forward to that. yeah, i'm also looking forward to the then the address of only want to add the image on hand. didn't look like somebody who was eager to surrender. she is the responsibility and those domains. and yet the, his political troubles are still in going, but uh, you know, history is the ultimate drive. so all the best thats back is done and thank you

very much for joining us today. thank you for asking. thank you, and thank you for watching hope to see her again on the world's a part of the or the, [000:00:00;00] the

the you just top cool. it's old, is the french on boston to, to be expelled from the country. there's thousands for the streets of the company. so the money friendship also leave you out front depends. it's me that a corporation with god them about the crew shakes of the central african states. locals. tell us what they think of the latest events for 64 years. we've had just wondering the reasoning that as of for us taking place was predictable. so the ministry has taken power and that audited the government, people. so these very prime minister called the media is an expulsion of every