school museums, places themselves a relic of the past. this is one of the best museums in the world or how many times in st. petersburg. and how is the director here? and i bet he has met the i'm actually in redundancy and welcome back to going under ground, broke us to go around the world from dubai in the u. a millions of ukrainians, a flight donasia and nations because of the nature of proxy. what with russia? well, what about the millions displaced because of us legend visions and countries like afghanistan, there are going to be in syria or interventions and central invest in america. i'm going on the ground recently, a former advisor to us authorities argued from all militarization of the board and characterizing the frontier between mexico and the usa is the greatest board of crisis and us history. but told miller takes a different approach following the money. the author of build bridges don't was

a journey to a world without buddha's joins me now for me to. so i was a todd, thank so much for coming on. as i was saying, it was taught benjamin. he came on the show and i did try that. he's testified in congress about immigration. he came to us, doesn't need that many more immigrants saw us off, but he suddenly said, look, you know, if it's full, that's what, that's what those one less immigration they're talking about. it's just the law and the fact we, the united states needs more or fewer immigrants is by the, by all these are the immigrants are coming and this is the biggest crisis. what do you think when i hear those, those sources sentiments and statements i, i really think to, you know, there's in the united states, there's pretty powerful forces that are far more broader fortification, more and very, and, you know, i guess the,

the term they use anti immigrant, right, but the, the, or against the idea of the people crossing in the united states and those, those sorts of arguments. the argument that you just laid out is, is definitely say coming straight from that. that's what i need. at least that goes when i, when i hear those sorts of already. so you'd agree with them in saying that it is the was born of christ and you as well. and the crisis in us history just from a different perspective that though i hesitate to use the word crisis, the lower price is used quite a bit with a border. it's almost become a little bit cliche just to say the least, the way that the word crisis is use a slap in years. oh, there's people just coming over the border and it's a k i can add in. and uh, we have to put the this down. but if i were to argue it was a crisis my, the, the perspective that i would take would be of that,

of looking at it from another angle. it's more of a crisis. you could say a militarization of crisis of the place that looks unrecognizable really from what it did 25 years ago or 30 years ago. if you were to follow the last 3 decades and how extensively the border is in florida by the militarized. and that, and really focusing on different cities and towns that are on the border and building up the walls and plenty of towers and putting up for ritual stations. and there are some places on the border where you see more of border patrol than you do local residents, right? and then the kind of consequences you see and the consequences are there are many consequences, but it could be 2 really important ones. one is the, the kind of strategy that at the these, the, the border, the militarization,

the border house been deployed. the strategies been through what's called prevention through deterrence. and that's a go into this too long. but the whole idea simply is to florida by certain areas of the border with that where people to circumvent and go through places like the arizona desert and i live in arizona and every year and this year is no exception. people crossing the border guy because they can't carry not water or not food. and the other part of it is local residency goes out to local residents in arizona and uh, go to el paso, that is a barto at the new mexico go to that orlando california. and you will hear people complaining about border patrol, set points. you'll hear people talking about um home invasions, uh, people at the border patrol coming into their homes. yeah. i want to, i want to get to it would take the hassle episode in south arizona. i know you were

in arizona or in a moment and i wanna get to uh, some denials of that from the us administration from joe biden. and the from the administrators that i have to see is saying some going on the run quite a bit lately, given the 10s of billions of dollars of us public money is going to fund the weapons sent to ukraine. and we're not giving investment advice here. but if anyone would you read your many books on the border? a tele there, a particular come companies, defense companies, arms companies, making masses of money out of this border in inverted commas. border crisis, which companies are the ones the people should invest in, know which you're obviously making a lot of money out of this and what they say i'll give me is echoed through mainstream media. think tags, policy makers and academic institutions. yeah, this is i think i could get some investment advice right here because of the border of industry as a growing industry has been a growing industry,

particularly since 9 elevens, particularly since 2001. um, i have great hop right reports looking at the different companies that have been that are the top product to years of, of the top contractors we should say that are getting but on the, on the us mexico border particularly. but i wanna stress that these contractors are, you know, not only on this, on the us mexico border, but around the world in different order areas. both of them are our names that probably your viewers a little fine, familiar like lockheed martin as one of a very big contract working with a fixed wing aircraft to the us border patrol. you have northrop grumman, which is another big military contractor who this company has gotten contracts around biometrics or they're developing a new biometric system known as parts. and that's the future when you're looking at

that sort of thing. you're looking at iris recognition based so recognition. so, you know, the sort of advanced database is that, you know, store people's information. uh, that sort of thing. and those are just 2 companies. there's lots of different companies. there's companies or smaller companies that they'll have, you know, obviously the, obviously they, they will say they abide by the 4th amendment of the us constitution. and all of them would say that i'm really trying to make things a safer to enforce u. s. law. and the u. s. customs and border protection says, guided by the highest ethical and moral principles in exhibiting the highest level of professional responsibility. c. p. cbp. the costs of the board of protection for its employees drive every day to maintain the public trusted and still the confidence of the communities we serve and put checked. that's what they say, that's a great public. that's a great public relations line. i'm sure less you know that that's um exactly what

you would expect to hear from customs and border protection. you wouldn't expect them to talk about, you know, the different sorts of things that go on the part of the people dying coming across the border. but those that, of course that's, that's, that's the, the line that, that we often receive strictly for the causes of birth or traction. but i want to say that that's sort of why it goes way beyond that. it's in washington as well. i like you can see it in bed and terminology used around the border like border security. border security is a term that's used a very often. yeah, it's a word that if you start to unpack it and see what it really means and see does, does this border florida vacation tremendous border part of the case and create security for peace? no, definitely have for people crossing the border. subst insurance policy is about people being but it's a more insecure or even more all situations. and definitely not necessarily secure

for people living along the border to who are complaining more and more of the increased border control lessons. so what is the word security? what is this border security? i think there were there questions that, that needs to be asked about how the sort of public relations line is. the sort of terminology that goes on question and unpacked, and then subsequently they need to then unpack that terminology. let's see what this border security thing is. let's see what kind of impacts it has that people look at the money like the, the knowledge of the money that's put into the bar is know. like when i talked about this for years and years and years around the you guys that it's amazing. how do people actually know the, the, the, the, the dramatic increases another budget split towards the board. okay. well, it's not, it's not a to trillion level that fast. can this guns the, the warrant of tennis styles? yeah. but i suppose what and perhaps staff can. this individual meant that some

corporations thought this was a way of importing prophets back to the homeland after the defeat of the united states in afghanistan. but given immigrants disproportionately want to work, why would corporations be low being on case street against more immigrants? i mean, clearly the defense contract is have a interest in this border miss. i suppose you might put it up and use that to be able to profit tier by all this border infrastructure. but generally, surely corporations will be saying, we want more immigrants because they need desperately workers to fill all the vacant to the jobs in the united states. yes, sir. yeah. so yours, so you will find, well, i wouldn't handle lobbying like when a homeland security budget comes up. you will see all these contractors, they'll go in behind closed doors, there, lobby, you know, all the key people,

the appropriations committees and that sort of thing. and you know, just see like if you look at the us tabor commerce or you look at other, you know, sectors where the interest, you know, you'll, you'll, you'll see lobbying for more of the comprehensive integration reform that would include, you know, bringing in more people who's corporation, it depends on the legal immigration right now. right? us right raise. yeah. so you read some of them might be what might go under if they went to the legal immigrate a that could very well happen on the state of alabama when it, without that law. maybe it was 10 years ago. there was a sort of, you know, papers please law on which they were going to go after all on document. if you go in there in the state and know, and there's some really good reporting of what happened after every one west. like lots of undocumented workers left the city of alabama and the sort of stayed at

last, the adverb business, an adver industry in alabama during that time. i mean, is joe biden being was $25000000000.00 give away a public funds to enforce the border as a, as they call it the largest the ever versus trump, who's still every i mean, if he's allowed to run a given the us authorities attacking your leading opposition leader in the united states. the will is biting worse than trump as regards the treatment of those seeking a better life and seeking asylum was. is there any the, the budget for 2023? it was actually 29000000000. 29000000000. if you look at customs and border protection and immigration and customs enforcement, which as the junk from approximately 25, just 16000000000. so 229000000000 was almost the amount that's from

spent in his thoughtful though the increase during the full 4 years of the trumpet administration. so looking at budget slight you look at, right, right. but i like to as a journalist, i like to look at there's rhetoric and then there's no higher numbers and budgets it was really happening. and if you look at it, what's the value ministers in the budgets are increasing. they're not taping down. if they're not sitting down, even with all the critique of the, the big wall, the trunk was building during his administration. they're not taking down that wall . is that they, they, we, i, i work for on, i look on the border kind of a, we put out a piece, looking at how the buy in this section is actually quote unquote, filling in the gaps with a lot. in other words, continuing to the law, but not only that they, they, they, but they are looking at more putting more testing technology, surveillance technology on the border. and you can see that kind of increases

a budget and this kind of creation of a virtual or technological border that's happening under biden. so it's, it's instead of the heavy rider at the, we're going to stop people from crossing the border. that sort of thing that you got under some with, with this building of this law with bite and you have a lot less of that sort of rhetoric, anti immigrant. right. right. much more. they're much more quiet about it. there's much more of a humanitarian language in which it's narrative, yet at the same time, the same exact border enforcement apparatus is in place. in fact, that's getting bolstered and they are in the same sort of impacts are happening on people crossing the border and people living in the borderlands. so what is the difference, right? well, dog miller, i'll tell you. well biden's, as in boy i do, i'll stop you. beth moore, from the co host of the board to chronicle bought gus and order

a bill. bridges not was after this break, the main body of the people. marcus don paul is the same kid. i'm due for an influence on out of this. and they have focused on the us are key because the us is a major normal force. but it also has played a critical role at different points in parks, on the street the the, by the administration in nature world are fascinating with soft power and rhetorical ships. remember, ukraine will wind and ukraine is winning. now we hear rush,

it is loosing and even brushes last narrative. manipulations do not change hard. we are the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the co host of the board, a chronicle of pulse cost and order of build bridges. not was a do i need to a world without food is taught. miller told us, saying i about one that the bible is a maybe worse and trump when it comes to the pain and misery of the immigration situation on your southern board is biting, said the in january of this year, i sent congress a comprehensive piece of legislation that was completely oval. what is being a broken immigration system for a long time cracking down on the legal immigration, strengthening, legal immigration, and then a slag off the g o. p for not helping him out on these big plans. i mean, that's what, that's what he says. and, you know,

even says people come to america for a whole lot of reasons to seek new opportunity. and what is the strongest economy in the world? can't blame them. one thing to do is they flee oppression. there's. there's a great job i'm running for 2024 is normally nation. that's a primaries. well that's good. can pay something. right. that's what it sounds like to me. how do you square? so yeah, you don't, i mean, is you probably could go back and i have to go back to steve as i've seen in here, hillary clinton said the same thing once he was running a rock, obama saying, i mean, not exactly the same thing, but it's very similar things like we are going to bolster legal immigration and, and cut down on their legal immigration and, you know, those, those sorts of really does the same thing that just spends are the same sort of sentences that spin around and in a circle. and they just keep being repeated and repeated as, as, as i get again,

in the budgets just keep going and getting higher and higher and higher and, and, and uh, it, it helps abide and how, you know, considerably that trump was right beforehand. because the kind of media scrutiny that he's going to get on the border is considerably less given that it scrutiny that trunk got. but nothing really fundamentally has changed except for. i do want to say one thing that differentiates, i buy it from a trunk and i'm in a fairly major way. is the rhetoric and the way that the rhetoric hands on and flames of, you know, different sort of groups or different constituencies. and particularly, we're on the us mexico border. we have a problem with melissa groups that will go down and control the or on their own. so in other words, we can expect far right? village is to increase. if trump is re elected the president and but loses arguably,

but then given the did the media representations well if that corporate own and obviously they, they get their funds that perhaps through a network that involves some of these ministry companies. but given the connection then, between the sources of the immigration, as he said, as by and said, they fully oppression. and we know he was biden, was vice president during the dimensions and hazy libya. so on the under obama. do you think it should be priced in when they do the intervention? so, i mean, the media should say as a lead the was, should say, obviously there will be this extra cost given the immigrants that will then come from afghanistan, libya, iraq, syria, i mean, going back further, rather than 80, that is way led to el salvador, nicaragua, you name it. oh they they. oh man, it's interesting to us. look at how the media depicts people coming to the border

and i'm talking mainly, you know, the corporate media it's, it's almost as if people come out of a complete back in like nothing has happened before that for them to arrive at the united states border. and um, and it just, they getting of, of just what you were mentioning, you know, that the, unless the intervention side of the united states has had military interventions throughout latin america, over centuries, military interventions. and i would argue economic ones as well. and the sort of at the nomic um neo liberal economic model that stand, strangle hold it or clamped upon places like water mol, on el salvador, in dominican republic. and you name it. and where us companies that will go and get used to labor in different places around latin america and the caribbean. those sorts of that sort of quote unquote invasion, right?

this, this sort of, all companies can cross borders, how military is also can cross borders. and star wars, shoot people, go and pay people, miserable. re wages, take over, lands take over people's water sources. um, not cemented climate aspects, which we can talk about as well. right? here, joe, less in the news room covering the border crisis as, as it's cold. i, it's a little note out as we approach the 2024 election as we get closer to it, we're going to hear more more about the border. i mean, surely they know that the journalists know, i mean, i know that a lot of them just go, it's a dictator in latin america. that's why they're fleeing them. but they also know all of these other ideas and the historical ideas behind it. don't say as to why there are hundreds of thousands of people going across. well, there's like a border there some every day. certainly everybody think how and how i feel like

there's a certain amount of talking ways that are regards it dated on lace in central america. it's violence, right? you just say, oh, there is violence in central america of the game problem. and that's, it is left at that. and then that leaves no sort of ability to, to analyze the situation from a perspective of us foreign policy, which is why you needs to have that. so it's a win win for these defense companies because they can involve themselves and interventions and setting up governments in latin america. and then they wind profits from the refugees fleeing the misery and violence at the other end. i tell me about as to who node um try because it's as arizona this horrific. good buddy. confident you with shawn re me at matthew you short on the 18th of may a tribal member of the toner, ohio down tribe. shocked by the customs and border protection. police, i mean away from that actual case what, how have blue mastic is it of,

uh, the whole idea of the idea of a border. in any case, the fact that tribal native americans are being shot by border police really in their own country in the united states. yeah. what is it? i mean, their minds, they, emilio reese jones is that the honor hers, but called by one borders where he is the book is about how borders implicit and borders are violence. and that the case of rain in my, to us on that bottom nation. and in that it is located actually a southern arizona is the size of the state of connecticut. anyone is wondering how big it was and it borders on mexico. but you should keep in mind that the answer so as it's not on go deep into mexico. so it's a border cross them and, and was imposed upon awesome the. so the what happened, it was very much e. s. is one of the worst cases of that because we have the money come for us to be

able to see it. right. and you know, what we hear about internationally is a wonderful, multi cultural countries. this is in the united states and of job i do ministration, celebrating diversity, all of these native americans and you know, completely separate to what anyone would say as regards emblematic killings by board of forces. how does the military cultural industrial complex play into all of this? whether it be hollywood and cultural ideas that are exported into naturally saying come here because look, everyone's free and wonderful with wonderful standards of living in the united states. versus also this, this, the united states that has these tribes because they do, you know, people and have heard of to own or them tribe. and so there is, there are, no, would you say so big in terms of what land they last. yeah, it's, it's,

it's the because the, the way the border is the big data, culturally often a waste in the order is almost as, as, as it's empty space or that nobody lives there. or it's just a place where people are crossing or it's a place where it lives as violence happening just because there and the fact that you know, indigenous people live along the border. of course they do like the, the, the bar, the border itself was a call, you know, process that the imposition of the border was a prost many indigenous territories including the awesome. but basically, this will be in the run up to 2024 election wants to be being discussed. the issue of the concept of the us southern border, it will be hard to keep immigrants out. presumably that's a, i mean that's what it's driving towards. it doesn't seem like the ministration rhetorically, when it's but 1st took office. they were very much about or going to stop this.

we're going to do this. we're going to stop. bill won't build one more for a while. and while so, like some different, different little policy policies have been shifted, it's almost the same and, and the rhetoric has now shifted to we're going to a band and that's what trump was doing. some more of it seems like the by a ministration is responding to this idea that, that they think that the public storage want more border florida vacation and will probably take, you know, that sort of line which, which will imply that kind of status quote of the border on which means receipt, bolstering it, which means the same companies they're talking about will still be getting their contracts, which these will be heading towards even more technological borders, with surveillance cameras and drones. and they're talking about usually these

lights are on man ground vehicles. um and the biometric systems that those sorts of the deck like having facial recognition cameras attached to drones are unmanned aerial vehicles. the ones that black are in the works or at least they're, they're experimenting with them. and so i can just see that, you know, as we go into 2024, i don't see any sort of radical home shift of like by the administration saying we're going to do something drastically different on the border. i hope i'm wrong about that. i hope there's more pressure for them to reconsider some of their positions, but as we speaking that's but i think that's where i think they will go. job miller . thank you. and that's it for the show. remember, we're bringing you new episodes every saturday and monday until then. you can give you touch 5 or less social media if it's not sense within your country and then to a channel going on the ground serial number dot com to watch new and old episodes

of going underground. caesar, the,

the museums are important for preserving our history so that it is a loss to future generations. but our physical museums, places themselves a relic of the past. this is one of the best museums in the world are coming to us in saint petersburg. helpful, she is the director here and i bet he has met the the hello and welcome to the part serene. doesn't repeat itself, but it often grimes and the mark twain were alive to they might have added particularly saw in practice on the walls. 5th most populous country has long found

itself at the crossroads of regional and global politics, which has made internal power, struggles, old, and more intense. whereas is lum about likely to be after the current political and legal crisis as well as to discuss it. i'm now enjoying bunch of edge of our former pakistan as sen, federal minister and also sen jabbar. it's a great pleasure, great honor for me to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. is my pleasure. thank you very much. bye bye. now talk histones politics has never been particularly adult, but i think you would agree with me that the sequence of events, or which began with the ousting or the removal from power. all the former prime minister, amber on how it is not petering out. and it's draining the countries resources, it's taking away attention from other pressing social challenges. i'm sure there are lots and lots of fact.