was divided into the look at today's news instead of the i'm action or down, see and welcome back to going underground, broke us to go around the world from dubai in the u. a millions of ukrainians, a flight in asia and nations because of the nature of proxy. what with russia? well, what about the millions displace? because of us as invasions and countries like afghanistan, there are going to be in syria or interventions in central invest in america. i'm going underground recently, a former advisor to us authorities argued from old militarization of the board and characterizing the frontier between mexico and the usa as the greatest board of crisis and us history. but told miller takes a different approach following the money. the also of build bridges don't was a journey to a world without board is joined to be not from tucson, arizona to,

thanks so much for coming on. as i was saying, who was taught benjamin. he came on the show and i did try that. he's testified in congress about immigration, e claim, the us doesn't need that many more immigrants saw us off, but he certainly said, look, uh, you know, if it is full, that's what, that's what those one less immigration they're talking about. it's just the law and the fact we, the united states needs more or fewer immigrants is by the, by all these are the limitations are coming and this is the biggest crisis. what do you think when i hear those, those sources sense that minutes and statements i, i really think to, you know, there's in the united states. there's pretty powerful forces that are still are more of the fortification more and very and you know, i guess the, the term they use anti immigrant. right. but the,

the floor against the idea of the people crossing of the united states and those, those sorts of arguments. the argument that you just laid out is, is definitely say coming straight from that. that's what i nearly think of when i, when i hear those sorts of already. so you'd agree with them in saying that it is the was born of christ and you as well. and the crisis in us history just from a different perspective on that though, i hesitate to use the word crisis. lower crisis is used quite a bit with a border. it's almost become a little bit cliche just to say the least, the way that the word crisis is use a slap in years. oh, there's people just coming over the border and it's a chaotic and it's in and uh we have to put this down. but if i were to argue it was a crisis my, the, the perspective that i would take would be of that, of looking at it from another angle. it's more of a crisis. you could say

a military position. but prices of the place that looks unrecognizable really from what it did 25 years ago or 30 years ago. if you were to follow the last 3 decades and how extensively the border is in florida by the militarized. and that, and really focusing on different cities and towns that are on the border and some of the walls in plenty of towers, including the orbital stations. and there's some places on the border where you see more border control than you do local residents, right. and then the kind of consequences you see, and the consequences are there are many consequences, but it could be 2 really important ones. one is the, the kind of strategy that the, the, the, the border, the militarization, the border house bins,

floyd. this as he's been through what's called prevention through the insurance, and that to go into this too long. but the whole idea simply is to florida by certain areas of the border with that of course, people to circumvent and go through places like the arizona desert and i live in arizona and every year and this year is no exception. people crossing the border guy because they can't carry enough water or not food. and the other part of it is local residency goes out to local residents in arizona. and i'll go to el paso, that is a barto at the new mexico to the orlando, california. and you will hear people complaining about border patrol, set points, you'll hear people talking about the home invasions of the people in the border patrol coming into their homes. yeah, i want, i want to get into a particularly useful episode in south arizona. i know you are in arizona in a moment, and i wanna get to uh,

some denials of that from the us administration from joe biden. and the, from the administrators that i have to see is saying this. i'm going on the run quite a bit lately, given the 10s of billions of dollars of us public money is going to fund the weapon sent to ukraine. and we don't giving investment advice here. but if anyone would read your many books on the border, clearly there a particular come companies, defense companies, arms companies, making masses of money out of this border in inverted commas. border crisis, which companies are the ones the people should invest in, you know, which are obviously making a lot of money out of this. and what they say i'll give me is echoed through mainstream media. think tanks, policy makers and academic institutions. yeah, this is i think i could get some investment advice right here because of the border industry as a growing industry has been a growing industry, particularly since 9 a lot. and particularly since 2001. and i have read help write

reports looking at the different companies that then that are the top product tiers of, of the top contractors. we should say that are getting but on the, on the us mexico border particularly. but i want to stress that these contractors are, you know, not only hundreds of us mexico border but around the world in different order areas . most of them are our names that probably your viewers a little bind, familiar like lockheed martin as one of the very big contract working with a fixed wing aircraft to the us border patrol. you have northrop grumman, which is another big military contractor who this company has gotten contracts around biometrics or they're developing a new biometric system known as hearts. and that's the future when you're looking at that sort of thing. you're looking at iris recognition based so recognition. so,

you know, those sort of advanced data bases that, you know, store people's information, that sort of thing. and, and those are just 2 companies. there's lots of different company in their company . they're smaller companies that, you know, i mean, obviously the, obviously they, they will say they abide by the 4th amendment of the us constitution. and all of them would say they're merely trying to make things a safer to enforce us law and us customs. and border protection says, guided by the highest, ethical and moral principles and exhibiting the highest level of professional responsibility. c. b, cbp. the costs of the board of protection of what's employees drive every day to maintain the public trusting and still the confidence of the communities we serve and protect. that's what they say. that's a great public. that's a great public relations line. i'm sure that you know that that's exactly what you would expect to hear from customs and border protection. you wouldn't expect them

to talk about, you know, the different sorts of things that go on the part of the people dying coming across the border. but does that, of course that's, that's, that's the, the line that, that we often receive directly through the causes of birth or attraction. but i want to say that, that sort of like goes way beyond that. it's in washington as well. i like you can see it in by that and terminology used around the bar like border security. border security is a term that's used a very often. yeah, it's a word that if you start to unpack it and see what it really means and see does, does this border florida vacation, tremendous board or part of the case and create security for pete? no, definitely. after people crossing the border. so instead of insurance policy is about people being but it's more insecure or even more all situations. and definitely not necessarily secure for people living along the border to who are complaining

more and more of the increased border control evidence. so what is the word security? what is this border security? i think there were there questions that, that needs to be asked about how the sort of public relations line is. the sort of terminology that goes on question and unpacked, and then subsequently they need to then unpack that terminology. let's see what this border security thing is. let's see what kind of impacts it has on people. let's look at the money like the knowledge of the money that's put into the bar is now. like when i talked about this for years and years and years around the you guys, it is amazing. how do people actually know the, the, the, the, the dramatic increases of the budget spent towards the bar. okay. well, it's not, it's not a to trillion level that fast getting this done to the war and have kind of styles yet. but i suppose what and perhaps staff can. this individual meant that some corporations thought this was a way of importing prophets back to the homeland after the defeat of the united

states in afghanistan. but given immigrants disproportionately want to work, why would corporations be a little being on case street against more immigrants? i mean, clearly the defense contract is have a interest in this border miss. i suppose you might put it up and use that to be able to profit tier by all this border infrastructure. but generally, surely, corporations will be saying, we want more immigrants because they need desperately workers to fill all the vacant to the jobs in the united states. sir, yeah, so yours, so you will find, well on one hand, the lobbying like when a homeland security budget comes up, you will see all these contractors, they'll go in behind closed doors or lobby, you know, all the key people, the appropriations committees and that sort of thing and you know, just see like if you look at the us tabor commerce or you look at other, you know,

sectors with the interest. you know, you'll, you'll, you'll see lobbying for more of the comprehensive integration reform that would include, you know, bringing in more people, corporation. it depends on legal immigration right now. right. us right, raise. yeah. so you read some of them might be what might go under if they went to the legal immigrate a that could very well happen on the state of alabama when they, without that law. maybe it was 10 years ago. it was a sort of, you know, papers please law on which they were going to go after all and document if you go in there in the state and know, and there's some really good reporting of what happened after everyone left. like lots of undocumented workers left to say of alabama and the sort of stayed at last,

the agribusiness, an adver industry in alabama during that time. i mean, is joe biden being was $25000000000.00 give away a public funds to enforce the border as a, as they call it, the largest the ever us is, trump, who's still every uh, i mean, if he's allowed to run a given the us authorities attacking your leading opposition either in the united states is biting worse than trump as regards the treatment of those seeking a better life than seeking asylum was. is there any the budget for 2023? it was actually 29000000000. 29000000000. if you look at customs and border protection and immigration and customs enforcement, which this is the jump from approximately 25, this 16000000000. so 229000000000 was almost the amount that trump spent in his thoughtful though the increase during the full 4 years of the trump

administration. so looking at budget slight you look at, right, right. but i like to as a journalist, i like to look at there's rhetoric and then there's no hard numbers and budgets it was really happening. and if you look at what's been going on with the ministers in the budgets are increasing, they're not taping down. if they're not taking down even with all the critique of the, the big wall, the trunk was building during his administration. they're not taking down that wall . is that they, they, we, i, i work for on, i look on the border kind of a, we put out a piece, looking at how divided into section is actually quote unquote, filling in the gaps of the law. in other words, continuing to the law, but not only that they, they, they but um they are looking at more putting more testing technology, surveillance technology on the border. and you can see that kind of increases a budget. and this kind of creation of

a virtual or technological border that's happening under biden. so it's, it's instead of the heavy writer at the, we're going to stop people from crossing the border. that sort of thing that you got under from, with, with disability of this law with bite and you have a lot less of that sort of rhetoric and i am again, rather it much more. they're much more quiet about it. there's much more of a humanitarian language in which it's narrated, yet at the same time, the same exact border enforcement apparatus is in place. in fact, it's getting bolstered and they are in the same sort of impacts are happening on people crossing the border and people living in the borderlands. so what is the difference, right? well, dog miller, i'll tell you, well, biden says and brought to i'll stop you that more from the co hosts of the board to chronicle broadcast and author of build bridges nobles. after this break, the

vast majority of the us citizens are not well rented. they 2, they pay very little attention to foreign policy. all of it have trouble locating ukraine on a map. and as a result, they've been very susceptible to a steady stream of propaganda that has painted russia as this aggressive imperial power. the

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the co host of the board, a chronicle of pulse cost and order of build bridges. not was a do i need to a world without food is taught. miller told us, saying i about one that the bible is a maybe worse and trump when it comes to the pain and misery of the immigration situation on your southern board is biting, said the in january of this year, i said congress, a comprehensive piece of legislation that would complete the oval. what is being a broken immigration system for a long time cracking down on the legal immigration, strengthening, legal immigration. and then ex, flagged off the g o. p for not helping him out on his big plans. i mean, that's what, that's what he says. and, you know, even says people come to america for a whole lot of reasons to seek new opportunity. and what is the strongest economy

in the world? can't blame them. one thing to do is they flee oppression. there's. there's a great job i'm running for 20. 24 is normally nation. it's a primaries. well that's good. can base something, right. that's what it sounds like to me. how do you square? so yeah, you don't. i mean, as you probably can go back and i have to go back to steve as i've seen it here. hillary clinton said the same thing once he was running a rock, obama saying, i mean, not exactly the same thing, but it's very similar things like we are going to bolster legal immigration and, and cut down on a legal immigration. and you know, those, those sorts of really does the same thing that just spends are the same sort of sentences that spin around and in a circle. and they just keep being repeated and repeated as, as, as i get again. and the budgets just keep going and getting higher and higher and higher and, and uh it, it helps abide and how of, you know,

considerably that trump was right beforehand. because the kind of media scrutiny that he's going to get on the border is considerably less. and given that it scrutiny, that trunk got, but nothing really fundamentally has changed except for. i do want to say one thing that differentiates, i buy it from a trunk and i'm in a fairly major way as a writer, x. and the way that the rhetoric hands on and flames those, you know, different sort of groups or different constituencies. and particularly we are on the us mexico border. we have a problem with that, melissa groups that will go down and control the border on their own. so in other words, we can expect far, right village is to increase if trump is re elected the president and but news is arguably, but then given the did the media representations well if that corporate own and

obviously they, they get their funds that perhaps through a network that involves some of these military companies, but given the connection then between the sources of the immigration, as he said, as by and said, they free oppression. and we know he was biden, was vice president during the interventions and hazy libya. so on the, under a bama, do you think it should be priced in when they do the interventions? i mean, the media should say as a lead the was, should say, obviously there will be this extra cost given the immigrants that will then come from afghanistan, libya, iraq, syria, i mean, going back further, rather than 80, that is way led to el salvador, nicaragua, you name it oh they, they don't matter. it's interesting to us look at how the media depicts people coming to the border and i'm talking mainly, you know, the corporate media. it's,

it's almost as of people come out of a complete vacuum, like nothing has happened before that for them to arrive at the united states border. and um, and they just, they getting out of just what you were mentioning. you know that the, i was the interventions i have, the united states has had military interventions throughout latin america over the centuries, military interventions. and i would argue economic loans as well as sort of at the nomic um, neo liberal economic model that stand, strangle hold it or clamped decline on places like white them all on el salvador and dominican republic and you name it. and where us companies that will go and get used to labor in different places around latin america and the caribbean. those sorts of that sort of quote unquote invasion, right? this, this sort of all companies can cross borders,

how military is also can cross borders. and star wars see people go and pay people miserable. re wages, take over, lands take over people's water sources. um, not to mention the climate aspects which we could talk about as well right here, joe. less and then use room covering the border crisis as as it's cooled. hi, it's a little note out as we approach the 2024 election. as we get closer to it, we're going to hear more more about the border. i mean, strongly, they know that the journalists know, i mean, i know that a lot of them just go, it's a dictator in latin america, that's why they're playing them. but they also know all of these other ideas and the historical ideas behind it. don't say as to why are hundreds of thousands of people going across. oh, there's a go border there song every day. certainly everybody's a how to how i feel like there's a certain amount of talking ways that are regards of dated on lace in central

america. it's violence, right? you just say, oh, there is violence and central america of the game problem. and that's is left at that. and then that leaves no sort of ability to, to analyze the situation from the perspective of us foreign policy, which in my view needs to happen. so it's a win win for these defense companies because they can involve themselves and interventions in a setting up governments in latin america. and then they wind profits from the refugees fleeing the misery and violence at the other end. i tell me about this to whom no doubt tried because this has the arizona this horrific. anybody can put a g was short re me at math here, short on the 18th of may, a tribal member of the toner who know them try shot by the customs and border protection. police. i mean away from that actual case. what, how have the mastic is it of, uh, the whole idea of the idea of a border,

in any case, the fact that tribal native americans are being short by border police freely in their own country in the united states. yeah. what is it? i mean, there are nice a, emilio rese jones is that the honor hers, but call by on borders where he is. the book is about how borders implicit and borders are violence. and that the case of right in my, to us on that awesome nation and in that is located actually a southern arizona is the size of the state of connecticut. anyone is wondering how big it was and it borders on mexico that you should keep in mind that the ancestral out of the thoughts on go deep and in mexico. so it's a border cross them and, and was imposed upon awesome. this the, what happened. it was really my g s is one of the worst cases that, that because we have the body counseling has to be able to see it. right. and you

know, what we hear about internationally is a wonderful multi cultural consciousness. is in the united states, under the job, i do ministration, celebrating diversity, all of these native americans and you know, completely separate what anyone would say as regards emblematic killings, uh, by the board of forces. how does the military cultural industrial complex play into all of this? whether it be hollywood and cultural ideas that are exported into naturally saying come here because look, everyone's free and wonderful with wonderful standards of living in the united states. versus also this, this, the united states that has these tribes because they do, you know, people and have heard of to own or them tribe. and so their zone would you say so big and those of what land they last. yeah. it's, it's, it's the because the, the way the border is the big data culturally often away from the border as honest

as it's as if it's empty space or that nobody lives there. or it's just a place where people are crossing or it's a place where it lives as violence happening just because they're in the ad. the fact that, you know, indigenous people live along the border, of course they do like the, the, the bar, the border itself was a call, you know, process the, the in position of the border was a prost many indigenous territories including the awesome. but basically this will be in the run up to 2024 election. what's be being discussed, the issue of the concept of the us southern border. it will be hard to keep immigrants out presumably. so that's a, i mean that's what it's trending towards. it doesn't seem like the ministration rhetorically. when i 1st took office, they were very much about over. i'm going to stop this, we're going to do this. we're going to stop. bill won't build one more for a while and was like, some different,

different little pilot policies have been shifted. it's almost the same and, and the rhetoric has now shifted to we're going to a band and that's what trump was doing. some more of it seems like the by a ministration is responding to this idea that, that they think that the public storage want more border florida vacation and will probably take, you know, that sort of line which, which will imply that kind of status quote of the border on which means receipt, bolstering it, which means the same companies are talking about will still be getting their contracts, which means will be heading towards even more technological borders. whizzer bandwidths, cameras and drones. and they're talking about usually these which are on man ground vehicles on the biometric systems that those sorts of the neck like having

space or recognition cameras attached to drones are i'm and aerial vehicles. the ones that black are in the works or at least they're, they're experimenting with them. and so i can just see that, you know, as we go into 2024, i don't see any sort of radical home shift of like by the administration saying we're going to do something drastically different on the border. i hope i'm wrong about that. i hope there's more pressure for them to reconsider some of their positions, but practically speaking. that's but i think that's where i think they will go. job miller. thank you. and that's it for the show. remember, we're bringing you new episodes every saturday and monday until then. you can keep in touch firewall as social media. if it's not sense it in your country and add to our channel going on, the grantee feel normal, they'll come to watch new and old episodes of going underground. so you said the

ac 90 age, the punch and we kind of became a us colony. but still retained its own cultural identity and speak in favor of independence. we be thrown into prison today, close to health. it's population. the grow, the residence of was a retail have new representation in congress on vote and u. s. presidential elections like okay, we're gonna make you american citizens, which you didn't ask for, even if we were off is citizenship. and we would prefer one say go to using these 2 entities. he chose to fight, so he's homelands independence. we felt that we could generate more of a spirit of resistance rather than submissive except a reality that we felt was shockingly unfair. my sorry,

that i decided to fight for my country. no, not could i have done things differently. yes, absolutely. do i now think that violence is not the means to achieve anything? absolutely. a hi, i'm actually i have to and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else to give it. please do have the state department c. i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your facts for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't want my shelf to stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, we don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way inside the

we're close to concluding agreements with 6 african states where we intend to supply food free of charge, including logistics. we will start deliveries in the next couple of weeks. president 15 says russia is all set to send free grand shipments to africa. they meet with the tech is the, the rest of the one small over tackling food and security, and possibly reducing the black st. greenville, also, i had the appeal not seized much in florida, while the police, i've least done by u. s. government continues to fund similar groups overseas. the, under the official south african pro refused to us claim that the country auto.