so i now think this violence is not the main switch, the renters in capsule. the . the hello and welcome to the cross dog. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, gives western backers had high hopes for ukraine, celebrated counter offensive. but alas, they were just hopes and illusions. the cruel reality on the ground demonstrates that nato and to live in a world of magical thinking. and ukraine is paying the price, the cross sucking ukraine's faith. i'm joined by my guess, carla nixon in washington. he is

a political analyst in columbus. we have miss the winston. she is a political activist as well as hosts of the miss, the winston show on t n. t radio. and in paris we crossed the way to maurice and she is a syndicated columnist and a party contributor right across up roles that affect that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated. let's go to miss the 1st and columbus. i just came back from vacation though i one of the last person that i talked to in this program was you. so we're kind of filling up the gap here. missing is it a time for kids? western backers to start eating crow. i mean, i went through an article, a few articles yesterday of all you know, this months ago is a success is assured, you know, the break through the lines of russians have no morel. the equipment is from the 19 sixteen's. you know all of that garbage that we've been reading and now we have a very different reality and it's pretty hard even the western media is beginning to say, oh it's looking all a little problem. matic of course, are trying to put a spin on it. but i mean, it's about time they start putting up a lens of reality on this here because it's only uh, prolonging a,

a conflict. the ukraine has no possibility of winning misty. yeah, you're absolutely right. the problem is i don't think that they're going to do that . i mean, i've seen that play out so many times. i mean, it took what 20 years for people to admit that iraq with that idea. so it's unlikely that that's going to happen. i think, as you just said, there's going to be a lot of spend put on this situation. they're going to try to, you know, make it as pretty as possible while also trying to save as much space as possible. i just don't know that we're going to see the kind of a crow eating, but you think that there needs to be. i think that there is far too much narcissism in far too much pride involved in that situation was a very good point though rachel. one thing you can hide, though is public opinion of cnn recently had a poll, 55 percent of those poll. do not want more money being said ukraine. germany is starting to de industrialize. inflation remains high and european politics. the

politicians are facing elections. that was the realities you can ignore. they're not realities that you can actually put a spin on. yeah, i agree with misty that i don't think they're gonna pull play on this anytime soon . and for the 2 reasons that she cited the ego and the fact that they put so much effort into this already, that they're not willing to let it go. but more than that, it always comes down to money. so money to the military, industrial complex is what they're getting out of this. and it's just this excuse to launder tax payer money for the, the us government to longer talks here, money from pockets and tax payers into the military defense industrial complex. and what's happening is they're able to, you know, put all this money into these weapons makers, under the guise of helping ukraine. and i don't think that's going and any time soon. and, and what's really interesting is the new talking point that i'm seeing over and over again, not only from top washington figures, but also from, you know, the national dogs online. so that whole online bought for data. and we've heard it from on senator lindsey graham,

we have heard it from the front of his lady and senator hillary clinton. we've heard it from senator richard blumenthal. so people who've been in washington a really long time and give you an idea of what's being said behind the scenes. and the talking point that keeps coming out is what a bargain. this is what a great deal to us is getting through asking us to go in and do anything. we're just, we're just giving all these billions but you are yes. understand. you know, there's no body bag effect here for the us. we're, we're getting a real bargain either this and, and it was the average person is obviously saying, well, why is all this money going to create? and that's the push back. that's what they're trying to play on now to sell it to people. no, no, no, you really don't understand. you might see billions going out the door or into the military industrial complex and you might be asking, you know, why are things such a disaster in the us? why are we not spending that money here? and the reality is, you don't get it, you don't get it, you guys are too stupid. you understand the way we understand things in here in washington, and we're telling you, it's a great deal. we're getting

a great deal. they are fighting the russians for has that's literally what lindsey graham said. he, he said, you know, russians are dying and we're not having to do it. that's a great thing. so i think we're gonna see more of that as the pull start to show more and more that although there is support in the us among the us, people for ukrainians and for ukraine don't really understand exactly how to support them. but they liked the idea of supporting them at the same time. they're tired of seeing this money go out the door on this week. we know. yeah. the talking point. i think we're going to see more more to justify. yeah, this is going, yeah, i mean, that's a cold come for a garland for the craniums. i mean, again, you know, we can, we can talk about the military mass of the financial math and economic math, but we can talk about human math to garland. they're just running out of people. i mean, there's a certain everett ability to this here, rachel's absolutely right. and miss the as to is said, you know, you can have all these talking points, but it doesn't change the political,

a military mass on the ground in ukraine. garland, yeah, but i think to understand the mentality of the neo cons, one need only look at the collapse of afghanistan. there was an infamous conversation. we're in jo, body and was talking to arthur off gunny who was in the puppet leader of afghanistan. and donnie basically said to him, look the tile up on their over running all of our positions that everything's falling apart. this thing is crashing, and joe biden said to them, him, we need to make, maintain the perception, even if it's not true, that you know, things are going well, blah, blah, blah. so even when they knew that their proxies a lab, so they just said, let's just lie and let's just maintain the narrative. and next thing, you know, people are dangling off the fuselage of a c 130 trying to get out of cobbled airport. that's the way they do things, they don't have the emotional tools necessary to have the motivation to live in the real world. so what they're going to do is maintain the narrative as long as they can. and then when it falls apart, they will deal with that. and uh, you know,

i guess my gosh ralph gunny zalinski and his true if they're alive, we'll try to get out of a, out of the country with as much money as they can steal. you know, i'm glad you brought that up. you don't miss the it's a yeah, be up until like, 15 minutes ago, you couldn't really talk about corruption in ukraine. which curiously, before the complex started, that is the only thing people talked about ukraine. so now it's back on the agenda . it is kind of a get out of jail free card in my opinion, and looking down the line, you know, as the ones he wishes to croak after all like gone e. okay, but i'm glad that the garland brought that up, but it's interesting that you know, we're doing it on the cheap and, and of course ukraine is very, very corrupt. it's very interesting commingling of narratives, misty. it really is, and it's very interesting to watch this play out and watch the way that the narrative managers are selling the story in the way that they're kind of dancing that on that line. where they are trying to encourage continued support from the american public for the conflict in ukraine,

while also trying to maintain their ability to sort of walk things back as it goes to our as it is, as anybody who's been paying attention, knew that it would. and so, as rachel said, you know, that we have this situation where all of these, this is not, she said this is not a one off. we have multiple different, high level officials who are talking about, you know, this is a great deal for us. no americans are dying, but what they're not talking about is an entire generation of mostly ukrainian men is being sacrificed on the altar of western imperialism. and nobody's really talking about that. and it's, as you just mentioned, we're now starting to see conversations crop back up about the corruption from zelinski. and that's always been the case that has always been as you said, that this was something that was widely covered prior to the conflict broke out. and so now that they're starting to bring that narrative back, it looks as if they're trying to set the stage for, you know, winding this thing down, because i think that the goal was never as drilling astonish, said many years ago about afghanistan. the goal is not a successful war. the goal is, unless we're in the bid, the, the whole point of the situation in ukraine was not for ukraine to beat russia.

everybody knew that that was not going to happen. the goal was to use ukraine to try to we can rush up both economically and militarily and so we are trying to get whatever we can, whatever bank for the, our buck that we can in doing that. and then we will, uh, you know, very gracefully walk ourselves out of this situation and blame it on its own entity . well, rachel, i think i've already set on this program. the, the, the ultimate spin is, however, this is revolt, a result. the russians didn't make it to paris. we won a yeah, well, i mean, the russians didn't make it to paris, but the u. s. has basically decimated the european economy and what ended up happening is that you, all of us here in europe are wondering k um we had cheap russian gas coming in. we weren't at war with russia. europe has a very different relationship with russia than the us does. in fact,

one of the reasons the e u, the european union was created in the 1st place was to be a more competitive entity against the us on the global stage. and ultimately, what ended up happening now is with this, the north stream pipeline being blown up by the way that's being played on ukraine . now in case you haven't noticed in the process we're seeing and intelligence officials saying, you know, you've trained probably did it how, how convenient that is. um, so that goes into what you're saying with respect to, you know, that whole narrative around corruption. oh yeah. they also blot pipelines and so if you're going to blame anyone, blame them, there's no real investigation happening. nobody really wants to know what happened there. they're afraid of, you know, what they might find, i think. but ultimately, what's happened is europe is traded, that cheap russian gas for super expensive american liquefied natural gas at $34.00 times as an annual net called the french presence at the market price of what's being paid in the us. the prices of skyrocketed for everything to the point where germany, the economic engine of your can't either afford to make fertilizer. so what's the

doing? importing $300.00. 36. i think it is percent more from russia. so in other words, instead of making these things itself with cheap rushing gas, they're importing the, the end product from russia in the meantime. or they've also boosted russian liquefied natural gas and drugs. it's right, by 40 percent in e compared to 2021. so ultimately they're doing all this versus the going saying, you know, look, we're splitting it to the and here's what he said because we stopped by russian energy. and yet there's sneaky to in the back door. so all of this is just a big straight. it's all just to appease the average person who doesn't scratch, they need the surface to figure out what's really going on. and it's just been a disaster for the average person here in europe. and instead of being dependent on russian gas, which of us constantly was saying and browsing in europe not to not to be doing.

we're now completely dependent or over dependent on american liquefied natural gas . it's even more expensive than wells, no end in sight. yeah, well, we're relying on retail, how're i solar power, but that's not ready for prime time. yeah. but with, with friends like the united states, the europeans don't need any friends it's, it's really, it's truly extraordinary. and i mean, i've all often said, you know, we will need future psychologists to explain it, not historians. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue. our discussion on ukraine state. stay with are the

same rom, just don't you have to see the house and engagement equals the trail. when so many fund themselves will depart. we choose to look so common ground. the 196, the us as i was returning to peaceful life with the newspapers didn't report ongoing, mexico's and the ukrainian saw, according to intelligence ukrainian nationalists. and the ukrainian intelligent ami said by real mind shall give each of which way to these atrocities. for future was the best hold at the old school and what, but i, senior diesel school knew which would be why to be like this, but it won't cause to do a new one. obviously the plaintiff was the head of the n k v

d sabotage department at the time. he was tasked with stopping the atrocities in ukraine for good reason, general sort of blonde. it was very familiar with the situation, be had experience finding the nationalist before the war, loveless to con, get a z a do it's a negative. so didn't know, could i e, but it was, well that's funny. so give me the task was tremendously difficult, but suit up a lot that was determined to complete as you have personal accounts to settle with the ukrainian nationalist. the welcome make the cross sac were all things are considered. i'm peter le bell. to remind you we're discussing ukraine's fate. the . okay, let's go back to the island in washington. i'm so far in this problem. we have

talked about different narratives and different spins and i think a really important one to, to take a look at which western media and refuses to acknowledge or try to a accept a different way of understanding how this conflict is being conducted. but keep talking about a square meters of land or how much they, you know, they picked up. so you creating a right of this village of 47 people. okay. moving forward. but see, that's a total misunderstanding of what's going on here at the very, very beginning. and a lot of people didn't understand it and they still don't rush. it said it had to atems in this complex demilitarization indeed, not certification. now what does that mean? it means destroying ukraine's military. that is being done. as matter fact, it is already been done because now and it's a nato military and then then the knots vacation, that's code and i think it's very clear to me. it's regime change. they don't want these people empower here. they don't want an anti rush on their border inside of

a military alliance against moscow. so, you know, looking at the counter offensive, looking at square meters and all of this, you know, a, a land bridge. all that, it's all quite and it's called nonsensical because if you understood it from the russian point of view, then you would say, yeah, we have to need it. we need to start negotiating, but they won't do that garland the right because it's big discuss it from the perspective of the russians claims. if they, if they discuss it from the see, i mean, the rest of russia's aims then will expose the reality of what's going on here. remember, they're saying that russia that proved and isn't made man, and he wants to expand in the soviet empire and take everything back over. but he's heading for the english channel if we don't stop from etc, etc. so they have, from that perspective, they have to discuss this through the lens of territory put in the once more territory. so we're going to discuss territory if you discuss it through the lens of the military threat. that is, that is being suppressed that, that, uh,

ukraine presents via a proxy army. then that exposes that russia is, sees a military threat and they're addressing a military threat. so they have to discuss it through the land of, of taking more land. they are therefore they can say, pollutant wants to take more land and it doesn't take them back to the discussion of rushes rush it. the reason russia is addressing the military abilities of ukraine is because that's what they see as a threat is high. and so i think that, that, that's the bottom line of that 12 missing garland is absolutely right, because you can, then we have this a symmetrical understanding. what's going on garlands right? it's about security and, you know, folks, i, i don't want to sound like a broken record, but december 17th before the start of the complex. that's what russia said. we want to talk about security and the state department blew it off. okay. and they didn't take it seriously for ukraine because now with this is where we are, it's all about security and anyone that says that is

a toady of the kremlin. that is just that, that's maniacal thinking, misty. yeah, you're absolutely right. and it's not even been just since december, it was a, this has been for years one year, and russia has been warning the west and nato for years. we've been explaining data closer and closer to them against the problems of is that we made to not do so. and so i think that russia has been in, you know, it, people like do it as the guidelines. i'd like to claim that he's some crazy, maniacal madman, who just woke up one day and decided to invade ukraine because he was in a bad mood or something that's just completely nonsensical and a not at all. in reality. what he has done here is been warning for years that he is concerned about as you decide the security of his country and off his borders. and data was continued to process even further and further. and so this is something that he has been warning us about for a very long time. i think in my opinion, he's been incredibly patient and dealing with this. and it is always been about, in my opinion, for him and for the, for the, for the country a brush that's always been about security. and so the idea that, again,

it's that narrative, right? it's not narrative management. that's then they have to create this kind of comic book villain out of let them are putting in order to justify the conflict that we are in and out. we are in that we are enabling and in fact that we provoked, this is not an unprovoked war. this is absolutely provoked, but it was provoked by with the western data not by water put in and rush out. and so again, i think it's all that narrative spent. it's the way that they have to sell the story in order to manufacture consent, especially from the american public who is very war weary. i think they have to find ways of selling it in order to be able to be able to push that narrative and, and get that, that kind of support it. rachel missed the use the term. uh, a cartoon figure. well, there's a cartoon figure in, in french politics. his name is, is out of cosy. he actually did an interview, which was very interesting. by the way, i agreed with him on many points for varying, for do i a put it this way? he was right about a lot of things for the wrong reasons, but nonetheless, he did say something that was uh along the lines of what darwin and miss b of already said, security and pan. your opinion,

security needs to be discussed. of course, he was destroyed in the public for his interview. go ahead. rachel. the right phone . refresh presently for that stuff was he just had a book come out in which he explained some of the decisions they made while he was president of france up until just before the console on. so i 2012 and he, what's interesting about him is he's not going to back down from his positions. he's very, very confident, politician. he knows these files really well. he also has the ability, which many western leaders don't anymore. and that's the ability to see things pragmatically through the lens of somebody else's point of view. in other words, he can look at the issue of ukraine and see why it is a problem for russian president vladimir putin. he can see why the present of russia would have the need or the interest to defend russian interests. now,

it seems like all france and the rest of europe and united states can do is see everything through the lens of this us lead western agenda. and to, you know, to the point of all this kilometer accounting i, it's actually pretty funny. it's like the new cobit case counting before counting the number of kilometers that shift back and forth along that skirmish line. we were counting the number of cases where people really have no idea what any of this means. they don't know the size of the old last we're talking about and which these kilometers are kind of shifting back and forth. it really means nothing. i mean, it's anecdotal. and, and yet is that again, like just like the code case count? i guess the latest example is you know, the weather max here in europe. what temperature is going to be today and will be color purple, or which means we're the world's about to blow up, or will it be current color, dark orange, you know, 20 years ago the same temperatures were colored, maybe yellow. but i mean, that's just, it's simple things and use simple minds and unfortunately that's, you know, we're in this kind of horse race mentality,

type of society. everybody thinks they're watching a super bowl game and, and they're reading for their team and it's just a lot more complicated than that. and soc, who is the somebody who understood as that. and i think he's a little bit dismayed it at what's become of critical push. this is, this is in western society. yeah. it garland, i agree with complete with, with rachel said there, i mean, i'm not the biggest fan. it was a lot of cozy. and when he was present and but rachel was absolutely right. i mean, a much of what he had to say was pragmatic. but for reasons that i would disagree with him, i want more more topic before we, we are in the show here. go on another narrative that is being spewed out there, churned all the time, is a nature of postwar ukraine, and i find this whole. so bizarre is like, ok, number one will be here. who grade? if there is a your grade level, it look like where, who will populated school want to return to it? it will be an economic basket case. if it doesn't have any access to the seat. i mean, what are these people talking about, or are they fundraising?

darlin, it's a big part of the discussion of postwar ukraine. if you look at what's going on with what's happening right now with countries such as black rock, a company such as black rock, you know, buying out parts of west and ukraine trying to figure out what will be left is to figure out how they can do to ukraine, what they tried to do, the russian in the 1990s that the ultimate goal is to go in and pick the bones of the whatever is left uh, whatever meat is left on the, on the carcass of ukraine. these vultures want to go in and they want to pick the vote. and so the real discussion of postwar ukraine is the neo liberal discussion of going into a country and taking everything in any and everything that's left. they don't really care about ukraine. the discussion is, you know, what can we get out of this? how can we get our company countries in that, and how can we make sure that we keep somebody like zelinski in charge? that will facilitate the wholesale transfer of all assets in all available methods of making money in ukraine into the hands of these western corporations. yeah,

mostly, i think the hunter biden has a lot of free time. maybe he could do some painting in kiev. okay. see, it apparently has some kind of affinity with ukraine as a matter of fact, the whole buying a family has an affinity with you guys. mostly. so would you be investing money in postwar ukraine? no, no. and did you list that? that's even a conversation that were having, frankly, the idea that 1st of all, that there's going to be, as you said, a postwar ukraine's there may not even be want it. and especially given the fact that we're now shipping off depleted uranium and it costs or munitions, i mean, that's going to be causing, wreaking havoc in the country for decades to come. and so it, and frankly, i think it's, you know, as board galloway pointed out on twitter, i think, you know, the, the, uh, the u. k. is claiming that they're going to funds of rebuilding of ukraine. they haven't even rebuilt greenville tower. those people are still displaced, i mean, in, in the situation what we have in the united states, a china and now we is completely obliterated. it has been a just destroyed by this fire, this reason wildfire. and so the idea that we are pledging to rebuild the country

that we are responsible for destroying when we don't even take care of our own, we don't even rebuild our own it's, it's a, that's something that's always frustrating me about this conflict is that i'm expected to believe that we actually care about the people of ukraine, when frankly, we don't even care about the people of our own country. it's very true, rachel. we have one more minute, go ahead and finish it all for us to what misty was saying there. i think if they struck oil under green cell tower, i think the vehicles that got a lot of interest with marriage. so i think it comes down to that. oh, okay. well, i mean, rachel, i mean the, the, it says kind of objectifying ukraine. i mean, it's not a, it's a place where people can find west theaters can find on a map. and they, they have no understanding of geo politics is it's never part of the conversation. and so really what you're saying is that once the country is destroyed, then the, then it's up to the western tax payers to rebuild that. go ahead 30 seconds. rachel,

as i say, i like to say that is it summer's the best time here in paris because all the frontier gone. i think they might be taking the same kind of way with ukraine. maybe ukraine without the ukrainians. is the ideal situation for them because that way they don't have to really deal with anyone when it comes to exploiting resources. and this is all this is about. and then they can do what they want with respect to rush as border. and they don't have to pretend that, you know, they're cooperating with anybody over there. they can just use is a free for all and, and, and the host for the state department that it's been for years now. yep. that's exactly. and that's why, you know, it's, it's very, it's a very sad faith. no, i'm no matter how you cut it up or ukraine and the training people. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guess in washington, columbus and in paris. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t. so you next time, remember, press on the, [000:00:00;00]

the museums are important for preserving our history so that it isn't last to future generations. but our fiscal museums, placing themselves a relic of the past, this is one of the best museums in the world that i'm a touch in saint petersburg to help rusty is the dresser here. and i bet he has met the high acceptance. and i'm going to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and

whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, it's not. we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way and say the scenes the beginning of its history. the united states of america has officially declared this driving for freedom and people's rights to happiness. however, in reality, having won independence, american colon is tested for the total extermination of the indigenous population of the continent. american indians were deprived of their land. local residents were driven into reservation, given the worst agricultural territories, while the best land was appropriated by wide colonizers,

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