the, the sooner time soon. welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from dubai in the u. a in 48 hours while the global south moines and 911 c, i a back to again, salvador i, in to the united states holds its own 911 annual ceremony tomorrow. the 22nd anniversary of an atrocity that led to the 20 year war and then defeats in afghanistan. and so is the president washington more on russia through ukraine 1000000 echo all of that us defeat in afghanistan? joining me now from salt lake city, utah is a former us missile defense agency consultant and current deputy director of

national operations with us task force on national and homeland security david pine . david, thanks so much for coming on before i gets to the war. uh, can i just ask you, because uh, obviously everyone's looking at the tragedy in hawaii, so many people killed west fires and so on. already e m p. you might have to explain what a m b is suspected by someone, this social media and so for so for given to why you have the largest alarm system in the world. and that happens to affect the poor as the area of malia porter area holding out against properties. picky lights is up. any johnson with the m p. note, which is whatsoever um electromagnet for having an issue? yes. electra of magnetic pulse. so those are our weapons that don't cause any kinetic or physical damage. they only cause damage to electronics. i think the conspiracy theories are more focused on directed energy weapons,

space space lasers, perhaps by russia or china. but i've yet to see any evidence of that that, that those bathroom was responsible for these devastating fires in now we uh where i, if i personally vacation many times, oh well, i basically put that to, to, to arrest. and obviously our thoughts with the families, very merry. so no, no amount of us trillion dollar weaponry succeeded against the taliban fights is basically the inc. caves doing is the same prospect in ukraine or will be it with the no direct us soldier death numbers. obviously, thousands of american soldiers died in the us division. have gotten this done as a 1000000000 is going to the landscape. do you expect to defeat to, to be coming to a cab as well? i think what i'm saying for the past almost the past year now is that ukraine has already essentially a business seated on one side,

so they're never going to get there the next territories back. the for you, for a new blast that were an x by russian september. and i've been saving since before the war began, that there was no amount of us military assistance that would enable ukraine to feed rush. no rush of course being a nuclear super power with a 1000. uh warranty for the weapons. the new great, great, of course. not having any um you know, p 35 times larger with an um, an economy 11 times bigger. the population over 5 times larger, as well, with about 5 times as many takes a comment aircraft in or artillery systems. so you, this one has only one end and that's what they do negotiating table. the best case a piece we can, we can obtain for you paid right now would be great. so arms disagreement along the current line of control, but i fear that the longer you great weights to agree to that arm is disagreement.

the more territory russia will succeed in capturing from ukraine following that the failure of the current camera offensive. oh, totally, that's and all of the view of ads the blinking his day to bob and the natural ensure and security app or rages or any military analyst invited on the programs and abc, nbc, cbs news, etc, and come to think of it. i made those wildfire as a new why $700.00 a hawaiian was one byte and was offering any the same day, gave $200000000.00 extra to zalinski. so what do you mean this money is just not gonna help things as well? yeah, i mean it's a, it's a real scandal. bye bye. that of course is happiness, massive bribery scandal which i e. and as his son hunter accepted 10 new $10000000.00 from a b corrupt ukrainian president. company in exchange for um you know, forgetting the prosecutor fired and we believe, you know, conservative. so there's a lot of evidence that suggests that binds decision to provide almost

$200000000000.80 grade is primarily big uh do. in fact, uh, you know, to kind of maintain is, is, uh, is profitable family business and, you know, it's, it's absolutely disgrace and it's funding ukrainians more than anything. i mean, ukraine has been the biggest loser or with the probably 200000 rating and soldiers killed. perhaps $25000.00 civilians interface destroyed or they've lost 3 percent of their, their population. 30 percent of their g d, p. and in russia is nothing we can, it remains very strong, both militarily new comically. while i'm live your opinion, you know, a person which doesn't have a free press, the united states as a 1st amendment. why is it the american public seem to have spin? supposing jo biden's view about the war and still in contrast to what you're saying, i mean, in the united states, people have seen a job. i even talk about firing. the prosecutors will allege these,

their own screen talking about is so, i mean, why the american public against what usa as well, they're not actually, uh, basically they been turning around public opinion against the war, 71 percent of republicans now post any additional assistance. do you agree with the humanitarian assistance as well as 55 percent of americans overall? so i think the truth is coming out through this liberal mainstream media block a lot of the truth and you know, they say it's been said in war. a truth is the 1st casualty of war, and that's, that's been true, and every major warrant us, as far as the world war wanted it. and it's true in most other countries as well, including the reprint. well, joe biden obviously denies all wrong doing. and if you look at those us state department and why it has briefings, they just don't, or they sort of turn away when they hear any questions about hunter biden's problems explained to me as

a whole military man. how it's possible for the united states to run out of ammunition which uh, made states supplying of the billions of dollars of us public money to zalinski. so yeah, since the cold war ended, of course, we pursue this uh, non surgical policy of, uh, globalization are now sourcing where we purchased a lot of our final weapon systems, rare earth, and even even some munitions from other countries. and at the same time of us, defense industry has been consolidated. whereas during world war 2, we had perhaps, as many as a dozen heavy emulation manufacturers, you know, it's now just down to, to a few and perhaps even one in the case of $155.00 millimeter or a heavy artillery production. and as you are likely aware of, you know, we is ship the this massive amount of us weapons, rockets, missiles in mediations,

to create inquiry about a $4400000.00 heavy artillery rounds at the expense of the us military. we've been weakening, usually unilaterally disarming the u. s. military to help you brain liked is never ending and on what of a war against the russian federation. and i think that's a huge defeat for us national security. able to watch our interview with the pentagon, official chuck, spinning your tour, the spinning report, he testified in congress about defense procurement. but i mean, i mean, i'm low. luckily isn't going to invade you seriously saying, put the united states can defend itself militarily on the land based artillery based war, even though it spends more than the top. but however many countries in the world put together in terms of defense spending. well, no, i wouldn't do this for i. what i would say is it is the one is greater than to say, but any white and weird russian russian china work is russia,

edward china. and certainly i think we could defend a successfully goes other nations attack. yes. or how does all this defense brick, i mean, given that you were rockwell basically a rate for you on subsidiary at some point. collins aerospace. how does it work? i mean, right now, presumably you'd expect congressman, to be having lunch in washington with the defense contract is i don't know how. how does it work? well, that's all, we'll, we'll base factories, they're producing munitions, visit lensky. we will help you get the vote. you mean? because the vote was near unanimous in congress for sending all this money to ukraine. i mean, it's your own infrastructure problems. um well i, i will say that i'm not a believer in the military industrial complex. i don't believe, you know, large defense contractors here in the us, um or in the process. so, you know, trying to lobby members of congress for war. certainly they profit for more,

but i don't think that they're major players are really have any political impact whatsoever in, in either starting wars or, or even continue if you are in the military industrial complex. so that tell us how it works because you are in there, you know, working there for rates going to, and city rates you on making a lot of money out of this. went on advertising it to share investors. but given the united states always has been a trillion dollars, maybe in the forever wars, and is now spent. what 160000000 i'm. i don't know what the latest figures on the amount of money poured into the oven into the landscape as well for you. creating a resource is about a 196000000000. i think you're in the us. you know, this figure is perhaps 117, but i think that's a much understanding of the actual military direct military assistance that we've given to ukraine is we're asked and authorized to give you. credit is about

53000000000. so most of that assistance is a financial arguments here to manage area and a replacing you, us weapon stocks that type of assistance. but as i said, i don't think that, you know, there is a military industrial complex. i don't think that's really the threat. i think the threat is the, the state, the war monitors of the neo conservatives and the liberals of buying. this ratio, of course, is why, by atlanta's us, that believe need always to be all and all of us national security. the very course don't have national security, and so they, they are, have been pushing to, to push a need. so i need those boundaries eastward into ukraine, and they've been unwilling to compromise on that. and as we know, you know, president of wine or be a russia basically stated that it's of us with nearly commit to never expand data all into ukraine. you wouldn't, everybody felt the need to invade you creating the 1st place. so this is

a completely unnecessary war. on the part of the, of the western powers, the can you see why what you're saying sounds just like russian talking points. i mean, why do you think bill buns, the head of the c. i a former ambassador to moscow? kind of intimated what you just said there has gone quiet. well, i think he's a captive member of the bite and just ration you know, in, in his, his silence has been very profitable for him because he, he a c, i, director, was elevated to the other buying the cabinet. the c i c i, director traditionally is not a member. it's not a cabinet, a level of positions as the director of national intelligences. and so i think he, as i think has been muscle. i think behind the scenes we, we are aware of a, of a binding piece off with it was given to the russian federation, back in january, which they, they basically offer to, to let russia keep all of its

a concrete in the next the premium territory. but they would not concede on the issue of ukraine membership and data. now that is a immensely foolish decision, because we could make that guarantee without any cost whatsoever to us national security. it's an open c for the ukraine will never join data, or the problem is, is that ukraine became in 2021, the defacto member of nato, with the us, a new brain of security, a partnership with brandon, david, fine, i'll stop you. the little from the deputy director of the national operations for the us task force on natural in homeland security. after this break, the news western backers had high hopes for you brain celebrated counter offensive,

but alas, they were just hopes and illusions the cruel reality. on the ground demonstrates that nato and to live in a world of magical thinking. pray pay the price, the the the welcome back to going on the run. i'm still here with for me,

us missed all defense agency, consulting enrollment, international analyst for the us office in the sector of defense, david pine, david j. you were talking in the bottom one about the possible piece agreement. people have heard about bar, as johnson being sent in the form of you. k disgrace to prime minister beings ended a break and destroying the peace deal, and now tens of thousands of ukrainians the lives of being lost. how do you characterize the washington press corps? actually, given that we're not really hearing anything about the peace deal. i mean, even though booting ran just a piece of paper recently showing that the, the craniums are interested in that the steel before. billions more of the us tax pay a public money was put into key have as well i think good fortunately. uh, the uh, the main stream media here in united states and utility and other western countries have become really uh, uh, nothing more than an outlet for war propaganda. and uh,

certainly, i think that's true to a true in ukraine into a lesser extent in russia as well. as i said, the truth is the 1st casualty of war. uh, but uh, yeah, we know from uh, 4 fingers article and fiona, by fiona hill. just the last september, i believe that there was this piece agreement was a tentative piece agreement between, between russia and ukraine that was signed or around march 31st and assemble and you know, eyes and following all of those piece negotiations with great interest. and you know, there was a limited coverage in the western press. we just didn't have all the details. but according to fiona hill, the details were essentially that russia with withdraw all of its troops from ukraine, from, for most of the ukraine, perhaps the need about 93.6 percent of you. crazy reward control territory, excluding the of the dos region. in an exchange,

you plan cry man layer. yes, of course they would keep premier russell keep from you. and, and, you know, you probably went to disarm to a limited extent, but would still retain a, you know, a large, a large army well armed army, and would have security guarantees by the western powers to continue our country to resume armina in the event of a russian aggression but would have to do so as, as uh, you know, permanently neutral power outside of the lights. okay. well, they've successfully kept that away. all that news away from the scary masses certainly done a better job. i'd really be, you'd be in your, be in union, in the united kingdom, then the united states. so what have you written about the council of foreign relations? richard has a long time. richard has the member of that meeting with the lever of charles coach and from the council was on our show just recently the council of foreign relations and said, may be autumn. now could be

a at opening for some kind of negotiation. what's your understanding? because if you watched circle made through media, which is waiting for this so called counter events over to a suit succeed. yeah, i, as i said, uh uh, you know, the ukraine's counter offensive is, i feel badly. uh, you know, it gets prepared or russian or find defenses and um, you know, the casualties that they, this operate have been, uh, massive. uh, you know, we really just can't believe, uh, you know, how, how great those casualties are with russia, but separate comparatively less casualties. and we've heard, you know, it's, it's really hard to pin down to buy and destruction because they, you know, kind of been all over the place. but for the most part, they essentially subordinated russia, security policy. uh, you know, us russian policy to, to you, crated as always, is, uh, you know, he is not

a democratic leader and he's a white honda based. uh, it's right. been trying to get us and nato into a direct shooting world with russia and knowing that that is the appraisal ego for we gain of the, their last territories in the, for an x regions of loss. it as well as the crimea. really they have, they have no real hope of getting and i do think uh, i am hopeful and optimistic that we will uh, support uh or pressure to ukraine to begin these piece docs. hopefully in the fall or no later by the end of the end of the year following the, the final lenders of this failed counter offensive. you know, the by administrator would reject that and say actually we'd be an absolutely unified behind, behind. so in the a narrative which uh, given the soviet union when the war against the nazis, their narrative, the bide narrative is the boot. and it's some kind of hipaa. and this is of,

you know, by the, the, under the radar. they don't, they did the north stream, according to see more judge, the, by the administration to be an absolute test about this. it believes that they will annihilate the concept of russia, whether it be a, in terms of a nation state, whether it beans, culture, because of course, in your books and music and so forth to be in band. and they are going to actually get raise the concept of what russia is for set. and i'm sure if you go around the cafe is of washington and maryland virginia. you'll hear us state department to personnel say the same. the yeah, i mean the, the goal is that the maximus objectives that divide ministration is expressed for their proxy work is rushing you. great events really observed. i mean, you can't, you can't win a war with the troops on the ground. we don't have a single carpet, a soldier on the ground. at least, at least, that's what we were being told. you know, we know that there's probably

a 200 to 300 us troops in c, i a intelligence officers operating ukraine. but that's not enough to win a war. you know, um, so uh, the us has demonstrated conclusively that it's not willing to defend you created militarily. and yet it, it says that, you know, we, at some point you probably will be admitted into a video alliance and i, and i think that's just a far since it's never going to happen. it's a big dream. and we need to come to reality and support. it was also an artist and, and i think this kind of goes back to where to go. she ations by kaplan and, and others, you know, is, is really the right way to, to go go and, and i think they're pursuing that the right to the right terms with the, we've calls for an armistice that we just actually freeze the conflict in place just as we didn't create, uh, you know, we're technically at work. we tried in north korea here in the us. and yet we

haven't had any major fighting since 1953. so i think i can be cheap and it can, it can be achieved without nato troops on the ground and ukraine on the, on the other hand, as you've written about this, you said in the past few weeks, joe biden, the, and as, as biden's justice department looks to imprisoning. of course the opposition need a drum in announce mobilization of u. s. military is in spite of operation atlantic was uh, what is that mean? is he seriously thinking uh to change what you've just been describing? what, what is it, what is button? what does, what did he mean by that? sudden announcements in the past few weeks. so of course the either was to build the estimates a really, i think it was july 11. do they're about to build this. and so, you know, we create a president, hold them, here's a look. uh, zalinski was very angry and, and you know, disappointed that, uh, there was no, uh, uh, concrete path or timeline for you for your membership. and, you know, as i say,

it goes as kind of a, you know, to try to appease essentially what finally agreed to as, to what's to build up to this 300000 troops. you know, rapid deployment force in europe. not all of which of course would be deployed in eastern europe, but uh, just to, to rev up us through deployments to europe in general. and perhaps we were deployed under $50000.00 troops. and i think that's really, really foolish. we shouldn't have any groups in eastern europe. we never should have had any troops in eastern europe. and i think uh, you know, the right course of action is to pursue some kind of mutual security agreement, such as being offered to us, the nato, in december of 2021. the terms of which were mostly favorable to the us from a national security perspective. wait. so, showing the families of the $300000.00 service people that, that concerns are going to be asking, who is the president of the united states the joe biden? or is it lensky?

well, i think that's, that's absolutely right. uh, you know, uh i was asked uh back in may of last year on another video interview. um, you know, if, if i thought the list gate was buying stop at or us stop. and i said, no, i think it's at a bind is asking, is a piece of, let's do stop it. so why would you do that in as well? i think uh, you know, i think buying in the democrat party or the u. s. has painted themselves into the corner, vilified, as you said, there's some kind of new hitler and in russia as a new nazi germany or soviet union. and so, you know, it, when you, you lighting why so, so, so often infrequently, sometimes you begin to leave in your own propaganda and i, and i think it's really hard for me to get out from that. because, you know, if you, if you, you know, paper does it as a hitler bent on domination of at least eastern europe, not just ukraine. falsely without any facts. then it makes it very difficult for

you to compromise with taylor, you know, and uh, you know, the whole crazy new, a conservative dirt as we must. not a peas hitler. we must not appease other dictators, you know, comes into play, which is it just absolutely foolish in its divorce or reality. we're not going to appease it. to me at all by declaring armistice. we don't even have to, you know, do recognizes annexations of, uh, you crated territory. we can simply say we recognize russians as active controls and for an x territory. so we recognize pride media is part of russia and, you know, and we can do it. we can split it as well and not just for, for russian, but for the us. he prayed as well. exactly, and i mean, he had the courage to and the f. can this done more? so, why possibly con, the spin dogs is in the white as,

and the headings now that even cnn bowls shows the most of the american public doesn't favor even more cash being paid into the landscape bank accounts. i mean, does he, does it is we have something on, on the bible because daily, strategically the united states. i mean not your last probably with the united states and come through this and start to forward. sure. alliances in this new world we live in. well, i think it's absolutely possible zalinski does have all the proof of the direct proof of, of buying bribery, the likely has access to the dates from the ukrainian a la carte. and they had a former head of a c o, a prisoner. so that's absolutely a possibility. we know that other foreign leaders you've had perhaps, you know, the chinese certainly and, and perhaps the premiums as well have been compromising material on, on a president bind and non bill buns help with all of that is this is, i mean, you know, we don't know we don't innocent about the u. s. foreign policy. someone tries to

blackmail your elected president of the united states have means and ways and pieces of dealing with leaders who do that. i think there has to be the courage and will power for us leaders to do something about that. i mean, i'm of the opinion of it by insured, as by been removed from office, you know, last year or the latest. certainly, openness that you create debacle, which has been a previous so devastating for the debris people the crane that don't deserve this for an a war that is not under their interest whatsoever, but we just don't have that for so we don't have a vice president obviously a small harrison is not a person of courage. she's not unlimited. or if she's not gonna stand against the binding and is just disgrace. so it is treasury or, you know, accepting these $1000000.00 a multi $1000000.00 bribes from, from a project for leaders. and we don't have a, you know,

other political leaders in the buying cabinet that were willing to take decisive action to save american the world from an unnecessary potential world war. yeah, binding denies all of that. and of course, the state department's entire west exec, authentic and consultants, the former consultants they deny that it's any conflict of interest. how did you some of these actually worked at a rate the on subsidiary gal and the ukraine national security and defense council blacklist. then what have you done? well, obviously, you know, all of my work is, is a purely private. it doesn't reflect that on any. do you are russian spies? i would say i have a petri, i'm a flag waving patriot. i'm a former us army comment officer. i served and you're dependent on it on us army headquarters, staff as a country desk officer, both for the former soviet union in eastern europe in the middle east. and,

you know, i know what i'm talking about and i know it's in the us interest. i'm or a for policy realist in it, but of course everything that i've said and done everything i've written and said on interviews is my own personal. it doesn't reflect a us government, you know, i have no employee with us. government doesn't reflect any of the use of any other uh, you know, previous employers as well. david pine. thank you. and that's it for the final show this season. we'll be back with a brand new episode on monday, the 25th of september. but until then, we'll be broadcasting some of your favorite shows of this series. meanwhile, you can keep in touch 5 whole social media if it's not sunset and your country and had to our channel going on. the run tv on normal dot com to what's new and old episodes of going underground. see very soon, the 1941 with the nazis help creation ultra nationalist, the massages claim,

the independent state of croatia. shortly off, the seizing power. they build the scene of us concentration camp a place associated with the worst atrocities committed in yugoslavia during we'll go to the moustache is use the cam system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities and political opponents of the fascist regime conditions in the san of us come with her renders the gods to which it to arise and the prisoners they send in the constitution camps. so most of them died. it was incredible genocide. the .