1941 with the nazis health relation, ultra nationalists, the was dashes proclaimed the independent state of croatia. shortly on the seizing power, they billed the same events, concentration camp a place associated with the worst atrocities committed in yugoslavia. during world war 2. the stash is used to come system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities, and political opponents of the fascist regime. conditions in the senate of us. campbell, who renders the gods to which it to arise and the prisoners they send in the concentration camps. so most of them died. it was incredible genocide. the

the the hello and welcome to cross dog were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, gives western backers had high hopes for ukraine, celebrated counter offensive, but alas, they were just hopes and illusions. the cruel reality of the ground demonstrates that nato and to live in a world of magical thinking. and ukraine is paying the price, the cross sucking ukraine's fate. i'm joined by my guess,

carla nixon in washington. he is a political analyst in columbus. we have miss the winston. she is a political activist, as well as host of the miss b. winston show on t n t radio ad in paris we crossed the way to mars than she is a syndicated columnist and a party contributor across stock rolls in effect. that means you can jump anytime you want and i always appreciate it. let's go to miss the 1st and columbus. i just came back from vacation though i'm one of the last person that i talked to on this program was you. so we're kind of filling up the gap here. missing is it a time for kids? western backers to start eating pro. i mean, i went through an article, a few articles yesterday of all the, you know, the months ago is a success is assured, you know, the break through the lines of russians have no morel. the equipment is from the 19 sixteen's, you know all of that garbage that we've been reading and now we have a very different reality and it's pretty hard even the western media is beginning to say, oh it's looking all a little problem. matic, of course are trying to put a spin on it, but i mean, it's about time they start putting of

a lens of reality on this here because it's only prolonging a a conflict. the ukraine has no possibility of winning miss they. yeah, you're absolutely right. the problem is i don't think that they're going to do that . i mean, i've seen that play out so many times. i mean, it took what 20 years for people to admit that iraq was a bad idea. so it's unlikely that that's going to happen. i think, as you just said, there's going to be a lot of spend put on this situation. they're going to try to uh, you know, make it as pretty as possible while also trying to save as much space as possible. i just, i don't know that we're going to see the kind of a crow eating, but you think that there needs to be. i think that there is a far too much narcissism in far too much pride involved in that situation was a very good point though rachel. one thing you can't hide, though is public opinion. uh, cnn recently had a whole 55 percent of those polled do not want more money being said ukraine, germany is starting to the industrialized inflation remains high and european politics. the politicians are facing elections. those are realities you can ignore,

they're not realities that you can actually put a spin on. yeah, i agree with misty that i don't think they're going to pull play on this anytime soon. and for the 2 reasons that she cited the ego and the fact that they've put so much effort into this already, that they're not willing to let it go. but more than that, it always comes down to money. so money through the military, industrial complex is what they're getting out of this. and it's just this excuse to launder tax payer money for the the us government to longer talks here, money from pockets of tax payers into the military defense industrial complex. and what's happening is they're able to, you know, put all this money into these weapons makers under the guise of helping you crane. and i don't think that's going and any time soon. and it's really interesting is the new talking point that i'm seeing over and over again, not only from top washington figures, but also from you know, the national dogs online. so that whole online bought for data. and we've heard it

from senator lindsey graham. we've heard it from the front office lady and senator, hillary clinton. we've heard it from senator richard limits all. so people who have been in washington a really long time and give you an idea of what's being said behind the scenes. and the talking point that keeps coming out is what a bargain. this is what a great deal the us is getting. there are asking us to go in and do anything. we're just, we're just getting all these billions but you're a, i understand, you know, there's no body bag effect here for the us. we're, we're getting a real bargain out of this and, and, you know, the average person is obviously saying, well, why is all this money going to ukraine? and that's the push back. that's what they're trying to play on now, to sell it to people. no, no, no, you really don't understand. you might see billions going out the door or into the military industrial complex. you might be asking, you know, why are things such a disaster in the us? why are we not spending that money here? and the reality is you don't get it, you don't get it, you guys are too stupid. you understand the way we understand things. and here in washington, and we're telling you, it's a great deal. we're getting

a great deal. they are fighting the russians for has that's literally what lindsey graham said. he, he said, you know, russians are dying and we're not having to do it. that's a great thing. so i think we're gonna see more of that as the poll start to show more a more that although there is support in the us among the us people for and ukrainians, and for ukraine don't really understand exactly how to support them. but they liked the idea of supporting them at the same time. they're tired of seeing this money go out the door on this week. we know the talking point. i think we're going to see more more justified. yeah, this thing is going, yeah, i mean, that's a cold come for a garland for the craniums. i mean, again, you know, we can, we can talk about the military mass, the financial math, economic math. but we can talk about human math to garland. they're just running out of people. i mean, there's a certain, in everett ability to this here. rachel is absolutely right. and miss the as to said, you know, you can have all these talking points, but it doesn't change the political and military math on the ground in ukraine,

garland. yeah, but i think to understand the mentality of the neo cons one need only look at the collapse of afghanistan. there was an infamous conversation. we're in jo, body and was talking to ash ralph gunny who was in the puppet leader of afghanistan . and donnie basically said to him, look, the tyler bond, they are over running all of our positions, everything's fallen apart, this thing is crashing. and joe biden said to them, him, we need to make, maintain the perception, even if it's not true, that you know, things are going well, blah, blah, blah. so even when they knew that their proxies a lab, so they just said, let's just lie. and let's just maintain the narrative. and next thing, you know, people are dangling off the fuselage of a c 130, trying to get out of cobbled airport. that's the way they do things. they don't have the emotional tools necessary to have the motivation to live in the real world . so what they're going to do is maintain the narrative as long as they can. and then when it falls apart, they will deal with it. and you know,

i guess my gosh ralph gunny zalinski and his true if they're alive, we'll try to get out of a out of the country with as much money as they can steal. you know, i'm glad you brought that up. you'll miss the, it's a, you know, be up until like, 15 minutes ago, you couldn't really talk about corruption in ukraine. which, curiously, before the complex started, that is the only thing people talked about ukraine. so now it's back on the agenda . it is kind of a get out of jail free card in my opinion, and looking down the line, you know, as the ones he wishes to croak after all like gone e. okay, i'm glad that the garland brought that up. but it's interesting that you know, we're doing it on the cheap and, and of course ukraine is very, very corrupt. it's very interesting commingling of narratives, misty. it really is, and it's very interesting to watch this play out and watch the way that the narrative managers are selling the story in the way that they're kind of dancing that on that line. where they are trying to encourage continued support from the american public for the conflict in ukraine,

while also trying to maintain their ability to sort of walk things back as it goes to our as it is, as anybody who's been paying attention, knew that it would. and so, as rachel said, you know, that we have this situation where all of these, this is not, she said this is not a one off. we have multiple different, high level officials who were talking about, you know, this is a great deal for us. no americans are dying, but what they're not talking about is an entire generation of mostly ukrainian men is being sacrificed on the altar of western imperialism. and nobody's really talking about that. and it's, as you just mentioned, we're now starting to see conversations crop back up about the corruption from zelinski. and that's always been the case that has always been as you said, that this was something that was widely covered prior to the conflict broke out. and so now that they're starting to bring that narrative back, it looks as if they're trying to set the stage for, you know, winding this thing down, because i think that the goal was never us going to san said many years ago about afghanistan. the goal is not a successful more. the goal is unless we're in the bid the, the whole point of the situation in ukraine was not for ukraine to beat russia.

everybody knew that that was not going to happen. the goal was to use ukraine to try to we can rush up both economically and militarily and so we are trying to get whatever we can, whatever bank for the, our buck that we can in doing that. and then we will, uh, you know, very gracefully walk ourselves out of this situation and blame it on its own entity . well, rachel, i think i've already set on this program. the, the, the ultimate spin is, however, this is revolt, a result. the russians didn't make it to paris. we won. yeah, well, i mean, there also has the negative paris, but the u. s. has basically decimated the european economy and what ended up happening is that you, all of us here in europe are wondering k. um, we had cheap russian gas coming in. we weren't at war with russia. europe has a very different relationship with russia than the us does. in fact,

one of the reasons the e u, the european union was created in the 1st place was to be a more competitive entity against the us on the global stage. and ultimately, what ended up happening now is with this, the north stream pipeline being blown up by the way that's being played on ukraine . now in case you haven't noticed in the process, we're seeing and intelligence officials saying, you know, you can probably did it how, how convenient that is. um, so that goes into what you're saying with respect to, you know, that whole narrative around corruption. oh yeah. they also blow up pipelines and so if you're going to blame anyone, blame them, there's no real investigation happening. nobody really wants to know what happened there. they're afraid of, you know, what they might find, i think. but ultimately, what's happened is europe is trading that cheap. russian gas for super expensive american liquefied natural gas at $34.00 times as an annual net called the french presence at the market price of what's being paid in the us. the prices of skyrocketed for everything to the point where germany, the economic engine of your can't either afford to make fertilizer. so what's the

doing? importing $300.00. 36. i think it is percent more from russia. so in other words, instead of making these things itself with cheap rushing, guess they are importing the, the end product from russia in the meantime. or they've also boosted russian liquefied natural gas and drugs. it's right by 40 percent in e compared to 2021. so ultimately they're doing all this versus the going saying, you know, look, we're sticking it to the area. so it easy because we stopped buying russian energy and yet there's sneaky to in the back door. so all this is just to make sure a, it's all just to appease the average person who doesn't scratch beneath the surface to figure out what's really going on. and it's just been a disaster for the average person here in europe. and instead of being dependent on russian gas, which of us constantly was saying and browsing in europe not to not to be doing.

we're now completely dependent or over dependent on american liquefied natural gas . it's even more expensive than wells, no end in sight. yeah, well we're relying on retail, how're i? solar power, but that's not ready for primetime. yeah. but with, with friends like the united states, the europeans don't need any friends it's, it's really, it's truly extraordinary. and i mean, i've all often said, you know, we will need future psychologists to explain it, not historians. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue. our discussion on ukraine state. stay with are the, the price of the best and decline of the best

ease and feel it was a booth. i know what we should do. east weather, east or west north to south be less per phone to boot, solidarity and global corporations all the years ago. the kind of the world has never seen. so east, west and on. so we have one comedy, one time in the russian states. never as one of the most sense community most i'll send some of the same assistance. must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union,

the kremlin media mission, the state on trust routing and supports the r t spoke neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services for what question did you say they requested the welcome make the process? were all things are considered computer la belcher menu were discussing ukraine's fate. the . okay, let's go back to the island in washington. i'm so far in this problem. we have talked about different narratives and different spins and i think our really important one to, to take

a look at which western media and refuses to acknowledge or try to a accept a different way of understanding how this conflict is being conducted. but keep talking about a square meters of land or how much they, you know, they picked up. so you creating a right and there's no a jump. 47 people. okay. moving forward. but see, that's a total misunderstanding of what's going on here at the very, very beginning. and a lot of people didn't understand it and they still don't the rush. it said it had to atems in this complex demilitarization indeed, not certification. now what does that mean? it means destroying ukraine's military. that is being done. as matter fact, it is already been done because now and it's a nato military and then then the knots vacation, that's code and i think it's very clear to me. it's regime change. they don't want these people empower here. they don't want an anti rush on their border inside of a military alliance against moscow. so, you know, looking at the counter offensive, looking at square meters and all of this, you know, a, a land bridge. all that,

it's all quite and it's called nonsensical because if you understood it from the russian point of view, then you would say, yeah, we have to need it. we need to start negotiating, but they won't do that. darwin, the right, because it's big discuss it from the perspective of the russians claims. if a, a, if they discuss it from the see, i mean the rush, it rushes aims, then will expose the reality of what's going on here. remember, they're saying that russia, that put and isn't made man, and he wants to expand in the soviet empire and take everything back over. but he's heading for the english channel if we don't stop permits, etc. so they have from that perspective, they have to discuss this through the lens of territory pollutant once more territory. so we're going to discuss territory if you discuss it through the lens of the military threat. that is, that it's being suppressed that, that, uh, ukraine presents via a proxy army. then that exposes that. russia sees

a military threat and they're addressing a military threat. so they have to discuss it through the land of, of taking more land. they are, therefore, they can say putting wants to take more land and it doesn't take them back to a discussion of rushes rush it. the reason russia is addressing the military abilities of ukraine is because that's what they see as a threat is high. and so i think that, that, that's the bottom line of that 12 mistake garland is absolutely right, because you can, then we have this a symmetrical understanding. what's going on garlands right? it's about security and, you know, folks, i, i don't want to sound like a broken record, but december 17th before the start of the conflict. that's what russia said. we want to talk about security and the state department blew it off. okay. and they didn't take it seriously for ukraine because now with this is where we are, it's all about security and anyone that says that is a toady of the kremlin. that is just that, that's maniacal thinking, misty. yeah,

you're absolutely right. and it's not even been just since december, it was a, this has been for years while i'm here. and russia has been warning the west and nato for years. we've been expanding data closer and closer to them against the problems of is that we made to not do so. and so i think that russia has been in, you know, and people like do it as the guidelines that like to claim that he's some crazy, maniacal madman who just woke up one day and decided to invade ukraine because he was in a bad mood or something that's just completely nonsensical and a not at all in reality. what he has done here is been warning for years that he is concerned about, as you just said, the security of his country and off his borders and data was continued to process even further and further. and so this is something that he has been warning us about for a very long time. i think in my opinion, he's been incredibly patient and dealing with this. and it is always been about, in my opinion, for him and for the, for the, for the country a brush that's always been about security. and so the idea that, again, it's that narrative, right? it's about narrative management. that's then they have to create this kind of comic book villing out of bottom or putting in order to justify the conflict that we are

in and out. we are in that we are enabling and in fact that we provoked a this is not an unprovoked war. this is absolutely provoked, but it was provoked by with the western data not by water put in and rush out. and so again, i think it's all that narrative spent. it's the way that they have to sell the store in order to manufacture consent, especially from the american public who is very war weary. i think they have to find ways of selling it in order to be able to be able to push that narrative and, and get that, that kind of support it. rachel missed the use the term. uh, a cartoon figure. well, there's a cartoon figure in, in french politics. his name is, is out of cosy. he actually did an interview, which was very interesting. by the way, i agreed with him on many points for varying, for do i a put it this way? he was right about a lot of things for the wrong reasons, but nonetheless, he did say something that was uh along the lines of what darwin it must be of already said, security and pan. your opinion, security needs to be discussed. of course, he was destroyed in the public for his interview. go ahead. rachel. the right phone

. refresh presently for that stuff was he just had a book come out in which he explained some of the decisions they made while he was president of france up until just before the console on. so i 2012 and he, what's interesting about him is he's not going to back down from his positions. he's very, very confident, politician. he knows these files really well. he also has the ability, which many western leaders don't anymore. and that's the ability to see things pragmatically through the lens of somebody else's point of view. in other words, he can look at the issue of ukraine and see why it is a problem for russian president vladimir virginia. he can see why the present of russia would have the need or the interest to defend russian interest. now, it seems like all france and the rest of europe and united states can do is see everything through the lens of this us wed western agenda. and to just, you know,

to the point of all this kilometer counseling i, it's actually pretty funny. it's like the new cobit case counting before counting the number of kilometers that shift back and forth along that skirmish line. we were counting the number of cases where people really have no idea what any of this means. they don't know the size of the old last we're talking about and which these kilometers are kind of shifting back and forth. it really means nothing. i mean, it's anecdotal. and, and yet is that again, like just like the code case count? i guess the latest example is you know, the weather max here in europe. what temperature is going to be today and will be color purple, or which means where the world's about to blow up, or will it be current color, dark orange, you know, 20 years ago the same temperatures were colored, maybe yellow. but i mean, that's just, it's simple things and use simple minds and unfortunately that's, you know, we're in this kind of horse race mentality, type of society. everybody thinks they're watching a super bowl game and, and they're reading for their team and it's just a lot more complicated than that. and soccer was the somebody who understood as

that. and i think he's a little bit dismayed it at what's become of critical. he says he's in western society. yeah. it, garland, i agree with complete with, with rachel said there. i mean, i'm not the biggest fan. it was a lot of cozy and when he was present and but rachel was absolutely right. i mean, a much of what he had to say was pragmatic, but for reasons that i would disagree with him, i want more more topic before we, we are in the show here. go on another narrative that is being spewed out there, churned all the time, is a nature of postwar ukraine, and i find this so. so bizarre is like, ok, number one will be here. who grade if there is a ukraine? what will it look like? where, who will populated school want to return to it? it will be an economic basket case if it doesn't have any access to the seat. i mean, what are these people talking about, or are they fundraising? darlin? it's a big part of the discussion of post mortem crane if you look at what's going on

with what's happening right now with countries such as black rock, a company such as black rock, you know, buying out parts of west and ukraine, trying to figure out what will be left is to figure out how they can do to ukraine, what they try to do to rush it in the 1990 is that the ultimate goal is to go in and pick the bones of the whatever is left uh, whatever meat is left on the on the carpets of ukraine, these vultures want to go in and they want to pick the vote. and so the real discussion of post were ukraine is the neo liberal discussion of going into a country and taking everything in any and everything that's left. they don't really care about ukraine. the discussion is, you know, what can we get out of this? how can we get our company countries in that, and how can we make sure that we keep somebody like zelinski in charge? that will facilitate the wholesale transfer of all assets in all available methods of making money in ukraine into the hands of these western corporations. yeah, mostly, i think the hunter biden has a lot of free time. maybe he could do some painting and yeah. okay,

see it apparently have some kind of affinity with ukraine as a matter of fact, the whole buying a family has an affinity with you guys? mostly. so would you be investing money in postwar ukraine? no, it'll only take you less that. that's even a conversation that we're having, frankly, the idea that 1st of all, that there's going to be, if you set a post were ukraine's there may not even be want it. and especially given the fact that we're now shipping off depleted uranium and it costs are munitions. i mean, that's going to be causing, wreaking havoc in the country for decades to come. and so it, and frankly, i think it's, you know, as board galloway pointed out on twitter, i think you know, that the, uh, the u. k is claiming that they're going to funds of rebuilding of ukraine. they haven't even rebuilt greenville tower. those people are still displaced, i mean, and in this situation, we have an united states, a china, and now we is completely obliterated. it has been a just destroyed by this fire, this region wildfire. and so the idea that we are pledging to rebuild the country that we are responsible for destroying when we don't even take care of our own,

we don't even rebuild our own it's, it's a, that's something that's always frustrating me about this conflict is that i'm expected to believe that we actually care about the people of ukraine, when frankly, we don't even care about the people of our own country. that's very true, rachel. we have one more minute, go ahead and finish it all for us to what mr was saying there. i think if they struck oil under green cell tower, i think there'd be a whole lot of interesting with marriage. so i think it comes down to that. okay, well, i mean, rachel, i mean the, the, it just kind of objectifying ukraine. i mean, it's not a, it's a place where people can find west theaters can find on a map. and they, they have no understanding of geo politics is it's never part of the conversation. and so really what you're saying is that once the country is destroyed, then the, then it's up to the western tax payers to rebuild it. go ahead 30 seconds. rachel, as i say, i like to say that is it summer's the best time here in paris because all the frontier gone. i think they might be taking the same kind of way with ukraine.

maybe ukraine without ukrainians. is the ideal situation for them? because that way they don't have to really deal with anyone when it comes to exploiting resources and this is all about. and then they can do what they want with respect to russia as border. and they don't have to pretend that, you know, they're cooperating with anybody over there. they can just use it as a free for all and, and, and the host for the state department that it's been for years now. yep, that's exact. and that's why, you know, it's, it's very, it's a very sad faith. no, i'm no matter how you cut it up or ukraine and the ukranian people. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guess in washington, columbus and in paris. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t. so you next time, remember the, [000:00:00;00]

the on the beach, let's click the link. listen, you have to change the rules and can't move so, so to personalize. can use me over to good enough to go to the, to the phone as long as you learn your image stuff or it will cause

a lot of new which in the for the thing that would inform you said with them when we get to the side of celia was this because it did just wouldn't care to get a car through the new year. oh for g like teach the way norm from the kitchen. the scholars should thoughtful and you've cheated us. i'm going to last. i look forward to you with that, the flushing, it's the ocean by cheap, and when you move, let's move. i'm on the status of enforcement similar to the mazda. glad to book, let me look into that. i will just, i did, i just want to say the lowest, the did, some of that i'll study to be progressing. right. and you said a short finish. this is just all just for good news. i'm a direction and for them to come seem to do friday is the material ordering the

power of people for over the for sure. enter them in the temperature of the intention to some of this the, the just breaking news this our and off the international is almost 300 people that killed in more rough coat. the deadliest quakes checks the country. you have details on the way a full set of 3 soldiers are arrested and bucking a fast. so one charges of fluffing against the rolling military, which is led by the world's young. this head of space also us present. and by and on the india in 5 minutes, everything on the sidelines of the g 20, which is about to officially take off in new delhi. we'll bring the live coverage up from the event. and the 2nd to hom,