the thing is, the bus is the little gear, little dyson says this done both of the master and her attendance, and you're watching this season's penultimate episode of going underground broadcasting all around the world from do by in the you. a few weeks ago, we spoke the pulitzer prize winning journalist seymour hersh about his bombshell report of the united states blew up in wood stream pipeline destabilizing your energy supplies. in closing, what may have been the single biggest meeting the mission events ever recorded, and environmental catastrophe, and now hush, the legend region that's known for exposing cover ups likely us armies massacre the lion, torture of prisoners and upgrade joints being gained from washington dc with more

evolutions, this time reporting that the c i a was well aware that ukrainian president allowed him is lensky and his own to rogers embezzled hundreds of millions of dollars in usaid. thank you so much. i cipher coming back on. i mean, after reviewing that the terror attack, tell me about this $400000000.00 of us public money. and, and i think of most american media covers the fact that the, the american public setting, they need $400000000.00 for infrastructure. tell me about the latest scandal trading with the enemy. oh, well, you have to know about the budget right now. the actual money. i think that's the on my government is spent on that war is about 5 months ago was about a 113000000000. and it's now up to $120.00, so the $400000000.00 figure when you compared to that, the great gross amount of money we spent there is almost trivial. but one of the

things that really bought the base, i learned that just 2 months ago, the ukraine needs a lot of diesel fuel to keep us army going to keep his trucks going until they use diesel. and it's uh and, and they have, since the war began, they've been buying diesel from russia, had pen and, and as they weren't supposed to, right. they went to, they're not supposed to be funding the war on landscape, not easily finding the war on zelinski. and it's, it's just, they were able to apparently, uh, the chest in sills cuz i, that were, they were buying the oil from rush i, i just, i, you know, it's just, you know, as a all, you know, the, the old line be a while ago walks and money talks, and the phone to me was just the, for you, the estimate that i had been told by people i've known for decades. i

was, was the skim on just the oil money. but let alone it's sort of disturbing that ukraine's buying oil from russia. we're through it more, i mean, but we, you know, the oil and money transcends every bit of rationality, i guess. but then to discover the ford demand is it isn't all. i mean, you know, all you have to do is look, look at the high life and key of the day. there's a really good highlights and can you have the fancy restaurants are going? you can find liquor stores of everything in it. there's a lot of money being pushed around. and so what happened was, this would have been 3 months ago or so this c, i a director, a r c i director burns bill burn. so it was really a diplomat that you've never been in the c, i a, he's had a great career or some bass or to some places including russia by and but, and actually had which edit that when he finishes towards a basset or rush. i wrote to my more in which

a warrant against expanding nato to the east because of the lead the war. but that's not what he's likes to talk, which makes it even more with that. he okay. the north stream uh pipeline does up to from your previous article. he was the middle of the he was, he was a given. i think the only job major job left when a bite and one got in and by what happened is burns retired from this point, servicing his deputy secretary state and they're quite reasonable. guy went to the carnegie foundation as president. and then when button got in the question is what job would he have? he wanted a job in foreign policy to the surface. this is the way it works of washington. these are professional, the government officials here. and once they're in, there's always going to be a job for you and you know, the job, big jump, there was left for c, i a and he took it, i would guess thinking that maybe if there's a 2nd term uh tony blinking will we retire or something i have no idea why he took it, but he did. he was the middleman when they um,

when the c a and other agencies ran a corporate operation to destroy the pipeline. when he comes of venture in fan is in the, in this piece about alleged corruption of this island ski administration. and yeah, because you say that your sources are telling you, you guys had woods with zelinski and i should say the sentence he denies old corruption. he was named in the panama papers. but according to you, you're saying that there lensky i'm, was told off by bill burns about all is savanski is officials riding around and cabin humans and he's benches and the like. the actual message. as i understood. and he was not alone on the trip. so the actual message that is, there are other people from the community with him, intelligence community, the actual message, the best lensky was the agenda of the bureaucrats and the general goals are getting very angry at you because you're taking too much of,

of the scam. hope you're taking a bigger cut and he was given a list of 35 people that were involved in and corrupt activities. zalinski def, fire 10 people on the list, some generals and officers, and some civilian bureaucrats. most of the agencies in the government and normally do a contracting work normally do directly with a normally you do a contract with somebody, so blind toilet paper, no contract the paper company. everybody's going to brokers. everybody's now getting 3rd parties involved because that increases the transfer of money on the side. and the corruption there is just beyond belief that always has been and that doesn't change. and so that's all i was reading about. but you know, like a lot of the stuff i write about, you know, they keep on saying on names, sources, if you know, and all those years i was at the new york times when a lot of prizes from my work, than you know, back in the seventy's and watergate and stuff like that, and vietnam,

could you possibly name sources your put, put people in jail? but do you know that, you know, you know, we've been talking for years, we know the, you know how to game is we never reveal our sources as the, as the, as use head zelinski did 5 people. i don't know whether that was just to make it look good or whether that was because mill buttons was telling them it was it bill burns that told him to do early before 1010 of those who were the most of us that jesus living, you know, in the living, well, in the best apartment and showing a lot of money and buying a new cars. and he fired those who were asked and patients was the word. and another $25.00, just the were left untouched. yeah, it's uh why be shocked. it's ukraine's always been at the bottom of the list or the top of the list in terms of corruption. yeah, i, i think everyone's shocked in the mainstream media community because that is that lensky is a hero. and it was bi partisan in bi partisan in congress just and so many

billions of dollars with public money when, when you're in a cities or a crumbling really and perhaps is the dread list in case of drinking the wine, who knows? because, so what you're saying is zelinski is buying is fueling the war on ukraine by buying russian oil the on the black market rusher, russian. the diesel is roger is obviously funding ukraine because with no upstream gone, it has to be transmitted fees for gas and going through you. crew are actually and that's part of it there. you know that there's the price of diesel, but there is still a gas line that was uh, uh, it was operational, i think in the sixty's a long time ago from russia through we do crane into is of some of the countries um that in less than your own warsaw block countries, you know, the old member, the warsaw block that existed as, as in opposition to our natal. i guess i'm oh,

it was. and they have to pay the transit fee or sometimes even to every, every get some russian continues to pay a transport fee for that pipeline. and oil does flow, but it doesn't go to ukraine. it goes through ukraine. and but a, and there's always been incredible complaints over the years. i mean, for decades about ukraine plug into a legal way and size. it is something that you don't pay a lot, but that was before the war. it's just look, i don't know why i should be giggling a minor because this is really quite a crazy situation with it. and as you know, that the tip of the united states is the funding candidate days on this all sorts of speeches and talks and concern about the fact that we viewed the fact that russia has so much oil so much and so much under price oil for years so much very clean methane gas and they've been selling it particularly wanted to europe

at $1.00 low price. there's a lot of other keeps everybody warm and happy and the business is flowing. and we always use that as a weapon. russia weapon icing is oil. okay, well it is, you know, we, i think we, we did talk about it on, on the north stream episode of people going to look at it on rumble. but also in your article, you're talking about weapons, real weapons. and actually there was an american w b. i host randy credit goes goodbye in transit from don't. yeah, it's key wonder why a comedian was in don't yet scrub. and you as a journalist, covering the war, and he saw with his own eyes the kind of a killing that has been going on with the us time wise and so on. i understand that the exports of arms from ukraine are gaining traction here. they, they're not just killing web people in your tell me about this booming weapons export market. it was not written about it, but i've obviously heard, you know,

i don't know whether they call it the dark margaret or the black market, very early colon romania. other countries on the border were being flooded with weapons where you were shipping for the war to ukraine. and other words, commanders of various, you know, i don't, i don't know what level often it was in general was it was colonels and others who were given a shipment or some weapons would personally re sell them or retail them back into the black and the dark market and including they were, um, the, the concern when i, there's a lot of concern just as months after the war began last february. there included these handheld a missile guns, missiles that could shoot down an airplane, you know, at a considerable height. and so there was a lot of concern about that, but that and one at one time about 6 months ago, or maybe more cbs motor story about it. that they were forced to retract they pub

in cs television. but put on the air show about the arm, voice to the right track, and these are mistakes. you know, they just, they were just, you know, everybody's, you know, everybody's, we're, we're, we're on the side of ukraine. we all hate russia and you know and bite and hates russia. and here it's china and was totally blinking. the secretary state and jake sullivan mean national security adviser and victoria and new and uh, blinking i called them when can blinking and now they're all unified in their public distaste and, and contempt for russian all things russian. and the same for china. i hear the binds in the process of, you know, going to try and discourage certain sales of, of goods from china to the native space. he's going to bar some of these are the sanction those were i just don't understand where this immense a point of hate comes. yes. who did a terrible thing by starting

a war and that's going to be on him forever. you know, he actually started one when he didn't have to, uh, is that convinced me he did not have to i'm, i don't, but i, i think you could have negotiated something where you're going to get that and you're going to get that. and if you would push him clearly in the course he and the russians, i'd say the war started way before i. i read it. i read is interviews are quite interesting. i think that's his argument. i mean, as you know, and remember in 2007 and one of those international conferences that seems so horrible. he actually publicly said, i'm, why don't you take me in, anita? i'm in europe. so i did. i say you can is 3, is what russian did. they started the 1st the bloodiest war and what was in, in western europe since world war 2, you know, i don't know, you just, you just love it was, it was pretty bad. so i had all stop you, the more from the pulitzer prize winning legend rejoined lives after this break the,

the, the, the, the

the, the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with pulitzer prize winning legend region lift seymour hash. well, i want to get on to, i mean, i should just also say there's no, you mentioned blink and there's no sign. yeah, there any element of corruption at that level? this is joe strategic as far as far as blinking. no, there's no, he's a wesley correction. himself, and he's a capital part and a hedge fund or equity company. there's nothing about that as this is the reasons there's never been an issue. i mean he's, he's an east look, he's a perfectly, he's been is a great public service. and he's now the secretary of state, but i'm, he's been biden's number one man, as, as a roles from congress. whenever he was

a 5 and one who's on the do just very communities was by mondays on various other committees. he's not a net, he's never served as an investment or never served in the state department. he's you know, over his keys the secretary state because he thinks he can bully people. and a jake sullivan's biggest claim to fame was he was hillary's lawyer when she was in there during a lot of investigations including the g mail. and he also ended up working at brookings with strobe talbott, who, when he was deputy secretary state in the clinton administration, was the major pusher for expanding nato. took the east. that was, that was actually when the chinese embassy was bombed in you, he slowly, when served all but with okay, did you remember that? you also mentioned the, the 2nd airborne is training in poland. what, what did they do? it, why would be the 2nd half of the 100 and 1st isn't is who are they 1st? who is the 2nd one you? who is the executive board and why should we wait a 2nd?

i'm waiting for a meeting or something, or we get some brigade, which is composed of 5 companies, which is maybe 7500 man. and then last year, we also brought the 100 and 1st infantry airborne, another elite unit, another brigade for 5 companies or 4 companies and add on add on companies probably with back up forces. we've got 20000 american soldiers exercising, doing training emissions. maybe in pulling a 60 miles from the border review crane. we're many, it's a little farther, but they're so easy. easy. yeah. you know what and what are they doing? i mean, what is i think they going to be doing? well, i don't know, but i just, when i asked for my story and you know the story you're talking about, which ran a couple weeks ago. that's what i asked. i asked what the, how, what are they there for? what's the plan? if the war goes bad? this jose do. if joe is willing to buy a global pipeline and keep him his best cell. i'm one of our good allies in nato,

but germany a cold and a little bankrupt. you know, it's not, you know, it's, it's going to be cost a lot of money to replace the, the, the gas it was getting out of north stream. julie was going to get and so you got rid of that. what would you do if the more, you know this all this talking about an offensive, i think it's been going on. but what, what, what, what do you do if it's suddenly did turn bad, as i will tell you, most of the people i know think it has. i think that's just the question of what he wants to do when, but you know that's not what you're saying. and in the western papers, and this, by the way, all of these re intelligence reboot reports that have come out in the last week. and some are very interesting. but in general, we all know that the video cliche about intelligence. so please, you know, they're taking a rosy picture of some of the numbers in it, but again,

their documents and so the, you know, they get tremendous attention because, well, i, well, most of the attention to the content of the leaks from the band. again, the got the attention and it was, it was trying to get in combat was it's, we use the prime, you open your whole, your whole life is being dependent on the 1st amendment. and then maybe the 4th amendment of the us constitution. what, what do you make you feel when they weren't talking about, as you're saying, the pentagon leaks about rosie pictures of counter offenses by the gradients. they would show here with your paper the new york times was talking about how to, how they help the f, b i the apprehend, jacked, etc, etc. this 21 year old, national gods. i don't get me going on. the process that is, i know the price is a no win situation. i mean, look, i worked for years at the new york times and, and so i'm sure everybody in the paper knows one a lot of prizes and the,

one of the most important stories i wrote about them, see i had spying on american citizens and nobody named it and so they have the notion now. so there's always this, the, i, it's, it's, i'm certainly an outside or no, i'm publishing on a, on a subset, which is a, i'm self publishing in essence. but i will tell you, for sure. i am retained a terrific editor, somebody i worked with at the london review books and uh, one of the other of your books is going pro ukraine by the way. i just read the latest issue. but what i was trying that, what i was trying to get out there was, this was the when i last spoke to you a few weeks back because last time you were criticizing your old paper in your times. now it's not so much the new york times on the printing, important news of interest in the public interest about what's happening in europe and who knows where else they are actually and growing about aiding the f. b i in capturing alleged whistleblowers. that's a new one. isn't this,

let me make it broader than in new york times. because of this, you can't win an argument with the, you know, i just don't want to get into an argument, but i sometimes do. but, but trump terrified the press that he won. after all, the mocking they did, and they're terrified again and i, i will tell you there's a lot of people very worried that we might end up with a bite and a trump ticket in 2024. and that, and so the times response to, to trump and all the, all the horrors of january 6 of invasion of the capital has the been, i think, to make a very distinct commitment to being pro. but there's very little criticism or by them. none of the stories i've written about binding, but none of the obligations are more than allegations with a lot of specific. so i look, i know much more than i said about what that mission took place in the base. it was based on no way what we were doing. and so none of them i've followed the story in

any way except the right calendar storage given by the intelligence community. so the fact that the, it's a, it does wash to a site, you know, you cannot be shocked at the times would be, as good citizens turned into the test, the height of the, of course i am, but you can see there you go, you're going to make me gets self serving, but the sources you want are people that are motivated. and i never, since i did the meal, i mastic a story which made a lot of people in the military who suffered through vietnam and the horrors there and kept their mouth shut because they wanted to get that next star, the next promotion. and they knew talking about it, so i was an ex theater for them. and so the people that i talked to take the oath of office, they have to take it every year in the military anyway, i think, and the state department to they don't take it to their boss or the current modem or the general or to the president they take it to the constitution and those are the people i have. i know and over many,

many more of you might think who i talked to because when they see something wrong, even though their job may be online, if i, if i screw up and somehow do get them mailed in the story and right. but they talk to me and the times, you know, i don't think when i worked there they had those kind of sources. i mean i, i know that because they relied on me for certain things. you was, i know you were the person we thought we were coming to the end. what was that? the best option? well, i noticed as a spokesman, a pretty, you know, a job and one story table named john kirby. what used to know when he was a junior officer as a, in the, is in the press office for the secretary of defense. when i was working at the new yorker and writing about no w. m. d and all that stuff. but the cheney bush stuff, much critical stuff. he was been involved now. he is a merge as the fellow who backs up the when, when there's a critical issue. he backs up the, the, the, the president passed

a young woman. he's always addicts, answer questions, and he goes on the sunday talk shows, we're talking about a prescott now being going on this talk shows that needs to be the domain of the secretary of the state or the national security advisor. you don't see much of those guys anymore right now. i don't know what's going to happen, but the pipeline story. i don't know if it's ever going to come out because this government will never investigated as a, in anonymous way. well, the un un won't either, despite roger in china or in brazil, one thing add to and you're intimating the, the anger actually in the latest bees, you seem to be intimating there isn't anger at certain levels there, but did it at least vindicate you a little bit while, as you will be in congress estimated and not to cover the consent of a mission, the mainstream media did. do you think it was cause of your i think of the know love sholtes would not get take questions when he visited by them last month. i mean, why people were saying mobile ideally, i mean presumably, even this article,

mainstream media had your article on their, their mind and, and now the washington post is conceded in europe and investigators don't believe the, the billing tabs. i mean, this is some cut out the organization. it's slowly you're getting traction. i mean, do you think that's why john specialist was not allowed? i mean, normally you'd have him and by and doing questions when they, when they do this i, you know, it doesn't matter what i think because i don't know the answer. i do know that the community intelligence community is, is, is, feels an ocean. that's a big statement, is there are people there who do analysis and write complicated report with complicated a foreign policy studies, etc. you know, it does an intellectual game and, and visualize the way many of them to isolated because there is no sign that the white house is terribly interested in the long term. what we call national intelligence estimates. and they certainly don't want one on the pipeline. and so

there's a, there's a disconnect, i think, between some elements of the, of the, of the, the, of the, of the, in the community and, and the white house. i don't think i don't, i don't think they see biden is an avid reader of their work or desire design. they haven't made that stuff. that's all i understand. but a lot of presidents, you know, when ronald reagan was president, they see every day give something called the present. his day. the beef is called the p. b and skies and the c. i a stay up to 34 in the morning to promulgate using a 3 year page thing for the president in a few senior people, his secretary, the vice president, secretary status of the sick death. not to many people. it's a very hot document. and at some point, it noticed that it was understood that reagan wasn't reading it. and so call him paul is long ago and i can tell the story, you know, figured out the way to do it. he would,

he would tape it going to enter video. he would read it in a video and then plug the video in for reagan to watch. and that's how they got them to read the happy she paid. that's all i with. i want to say we, we don't have time to, to look at the latest piece which is a, which is guantanamo. and i know this is the watch this program in guantanamo in the tv room apparently. but i guess people should, i don't know if you have any very quick message to the people and go down that way . we'll be watching this in the us present can because your latest one is about the process as well. the only point i made is that the, the constitution in united states is very clear on something called due process. and if you're in a jail in america, you don't have to be a citizen, they get due process and you don't have to have been captured somewhere outside of america or american sovereign territory. due process is in the constitution. and none of the courts that edgy edgy indicated the very that's been legal issues. go

to war in the course have done something and forcing them very back in the bush cheney days and forcing the white house to a these to the government to give some rights to them. but none of the no court has ever said the one thing that nobody wants it, which is the prisoners have absolutely right to due process the way the court. there was a case the site and a couple weeks ago that sort of blew my mind with some guy who was released. you know, they've been in for 20 to 20 years. gone to the torture prisons that we had back in the early days. got the guantanamo no evidence at all convicting and making the anything. finally, 2 years ago he was released. he was said, you're free to go. but the uh, you have to go to a safe country. well, he was from you. i met and he wanted to go back there. and so the establishment, whether was the, the, the state, the people, the, i guess the military running the person is there, the establishment said it's not safe. so you can't go there. so he's been

a little bit can read people who read on yourselves tech about i'm just allow model . i'm you guys, you guys all i know you got to the shape for you because the, your, you always give a brief as much as i give you time. you know, you say that i a, she gave no great science. thank you. and that's what i show that's over the show will be back on saturday for the final show of this season with john perkins and ledge will bank, and i'm, if he can only get man to talk about which will lead us on washington's assassination this. meanwhile, you can keep in touch by the social media or if it's not sensitive in your country and had to a channel going on the garden tv on rumble, dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground seas have the there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth is

the case of the med, most of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also a pursuit. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing as for so the funder line likes to say, we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals. what are you living on? mac, have very close propaganda. you know, a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. some more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the the

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