or the the lead of 3 people use of, for instance, coming up with is what the somebody loved to have to choose between you. if you want to get to the next this cars, you have to leave it up there. the word made that up. we beat the was

off the cool my lot. so shift you things you get suitable for us to be in that you all are not in the july. so the resource officer the the hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the alternative for germany is on the rise, doubling its popularity since the last election cycle. this party challenges neo liberal orthodoxy is on the issues of immigration, military alliances, and the nature of the european union, and much more. this is why there are some who want alternative for germany band,

the of the cross talking german politics. i'm joined by my guess, john laughlin in paris. he's a university lecture in history and political philosophy in dubai. we have ralph niemeyer, he is chairman of the council for a constitution in sovereignty, and in cabinets we crossed to michael brook. he is a political analyst. all right, gentlemen, comstock rolls and effects. that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, john, let me go to you 1st. see you in, in paris. what, what, how do you explain the rise of the alternative for germany? because anywhere in main stream media, legacy media, it is, it is uh, we should all be running for the hills. we should be terrified of these people. the most are rogatories things that you can say about politicians and a political party. and that's saying something these days is applied to the alternative for germany explained to us as well. it's ridiculous kind of feature. i

mean, the policy was found it, i believe about to 15 years ago, essentially by economics professor as it has a rather elite storage. and it cannot mix professors who were worried about the euro. and they didn't want german suffering to german monetary sovereignty to be dissolved in new york and minus a union. and for many years that was the essence of a, of these policies. and then, little by little of a, let's say, more populist issues came to the full, particularly immigration. and now of course, the whole issue of the war with russia. but the idea that this is a, some kind of, you know, rene sunset, whatever is old, basically ridiculous if you compare the 52 u k. so united kingdom, independence policy, which has, in some respects, a similar history, i think also started off, been originally founded by uh, by academics. um uh, but in fact

a different story in the sense that you couldn't have a one any a seats in the national parliament. but the, the fact is that the, i sd, is much more centrist than you can view. and they give that that you cause the danger to democracy on the country you could for ended up winning in the sense that breakfast of course was, was carried out in 2020. but the, if the doesn't cool for, and the thing is rather cold as leaving the european union so. so the idea that it's an extreme is policy is it is quite wrong in the end of the course. the fact that it's labeled as such is an indication of the left is drift and indeed of the tendency to sense the shape and to tell the tire. and this in which characterizes so much you are paying politics today, not, not just in, not just in germany. what ralph, i, the, the, the, the party recently had a gathering and an issue that we would call in american politics a, a platform. and i read it through, i think it's like 97 pages along very interesting reading into echo. and john said

there, i found it to be quite moderates. i don't see any extremism at all. now questioning nato that has been something that people have been talking about since the end of the cold war. so i don't think that is extreme having control of your own borders. but that's the, it shouldn't be an extreme disposition to want to have sovereignty. that's the whole point here is that it's challenging these piet's use of neo liberalism, but you're simply not allowed to do ralph? yeah, that's correct. and that way i must agree both with john because it is a party that has democratically elected. and actually, i don't find other than that, i disagree with with the economic policy. maybe because i'm rather investors than to marxist. but i don't find them being extremely right being what they are being branded all the time. they're actually not. i mean, some members probably are to be seen in a different lives,

but this has been all parties. you can get it to the left as you find something styling. this is called me in this a dead, you know, but the majority of the body, generally d a s d is a filling a guy. that's the cd you the crystal comes out of conservatives. i'm. it's a smack of that because mrs. margaret was too much as so for the democrats, charles, that was that she was from c d u and she probably created a f d by the also by her little stats on, on the immigration issue that aroused in 2015 the year. oh, but it does widely accepted. no, although a of these to assess they want to leave it. but if you imagine to go back to deutschen mark, we would all say that this would make our products too expensive. in the end, we wouldn't export anything anymore because everyone would try to buy into dodge

and marketing or the new dot to mark. so this is not really a concept that they can in all earnest the follow. then they need to accept that the heroes, the euro, and do they will be there for some time. well, am is, are having having a reform monetary policy is also necessary. i think we all know that as the e you is essentially facing bankruptcy. michael, let me go to you. i mean, a ralph kind of touched upon it here. i mean, can you describe for my viewers? are viewers who votes for this part already? why is it attractive? it's doubled its popularity since the last election cycle. that's an earthquake for, for established democracies like germany who votes for them who supports them in the for the n b and most the, the home submitted the notes i submitted. that is a see the event on to talk to the. busy

the size of the party property, and so they have no uh, d. and so we'll close the d. and that may make a, the cost in the homes, nearly 20 percent of the property, and germany is the boss and the best and the east on the side. and in the, in the east some of the b gets nearly $70.00. and the biggest, uh yeah, the biggest value is much more than uh and so the used to come in uh the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and yes, a new all the listed phone like a home and uh, the thompson office. is there any way to it's uh, all right, let me see, let me put you to the party to supply pointing to the uh, the,

the government. and so the people say this government does not because he doesn't pay enough. and so the both sides of the, the, the box, they say they use it as a way to bypass the government. exactly. telling me if i send me this isn't turning into a party for the politically homeless because it and it's, it's, it's going across geographically. and again, it's a, it's a strong holding the east, but it's spreading. okay. and they are winning local elections here. and i would do respect to our german gas here. oh, you know, over the last 20 years, i really don't see much difference in these parties whatsoever, except for b a. if the john, well the, if these one much more the local elections pizza, they have a nearly 18 members in the national parliament in the buddhist. talk about the, the, the politically, the phenomena of the place of the homeless that you rightly identify is,

is by the way, upon european phenomena. and i mentioned youtube amendment to go in britain, which tasted as early as was largely supported by disaffected, conservative party supporters. but to observe exactly the same thing and from where the rise of the national riley that i some of them on that. so now is in direct proportion to the left, ism and centrism of the previously main stream sent to right party. you see the same thing initially, obviously with the rise of the fraternity, talia, you see it in the netherlands, which has been governed by a, a supposedly liberal law or at least send to rights coalition. but which in reality has drifted ever further to the left and up as the i'm going to america who is in power full. uh, 15 or 16 years she governed uh for 3 out of have full terms of office it together with the social democrats at least so cool. tend to write policies have shifted to

the center or even to the left. and that is indeed what creates the iced a phenomenon in germany and all the other phenomena that i've mentioned and the other countries around how much is the crane issue. field parties like the f d and other populace parties in, in europe. but definitely it is. um, showing the sofa the reset by the voters who say they disagree with the government also on that issue. they don't believe the mainstream media propaganda. that's a so auntie ross and bias that people, they say, no, we want to have peace with russia. we don't want to send us into a conflict. we want to have the more neutral stance in that. and that's why they support policies, of course, who do say that, but it was not going to be a if the who signed this is also the left as body. and now you'll have to look at a new phenomenon. ok?

because so if i can connect to start a new party that will attract voters from a cd, the social democrats to current hosted into our skill at frontier and the former leader of the social democrats. the book push far to get her probably 20 percent as well. now you have 20 percent and the put tassel bound to potential 20 percent on the left is so the question is if they split the opposition like that, why would they not go in at least one way to get in this issue, but they say, let's stop the war and ukraine, half of populist government, and help us ro shows just for the sake that we can add to this war. and then after that pass democratic reforms into the country that over to you and probably the reason why people are voting for extreme is bodies are so called extreme is bodies . i, i could set it up at

a spot is the rhetoric because the elective democratically and within the constitution. yeah, but i mean it's kind of the sum total of our, our discussion taskbar, is that this is much more than a protest. it's a, it's, it's coherent, it's ideologically coherent, and it's quote, creating a base for itself. no, under the establishment is a freight gentleman. i'm going to jump into here. we're gonna go to a short break and asked about short break. we'll continue our side discussion on german politic state without the known in vietnam as the american war,

the vietnam war lost it for almost 2 decades and dragged in numerous countries. nor does he have written down that you don't see it now. why it's all, i'm emptied. hundreds of thousands of american troops who was sent to the country to back the south vietnamese on me. i got all that not, but the american soldiers murdered resistors mercilessly burned down entire villages and spread dangerous chemicals and lee by all right, did the americans ever fully acknowledge what they did on the vietnamese veterans ready to forgive? yes, yes. yes. that's the way to

to the all the same rom, just don't you have to shape house to come and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will to parts. we choose to look so common ground the the welcome x across stock. were all things are considered on people about your

mind. you were discussing german politics the . okay, go back to michael. michael is a remarkably, i suppose maybe it shouldn't be remarkable. the and, and lead to better box. the for administer said a few months ago that she didn't care what her constituents thought when it comes to ukraine. she visited the european parliament and said that uh, that we're at war with russia. i mean, how much is added catalyst to people this throw up their arms and say, this is coming from the green party. the whole party is here. i mean, there, i just think there is such a disaffection from the establishment again from afar. when i look at these parties here, they are so homogenous at the end of the day because they all clicked their heels when they're told to um, by the united states. go ahead, mike is the,

is the best on the c b? and is there a way to say something that people losses. uh they, they don't normally take care of the major goals. and now she said yeah, has $560.00 days and we will know so yeah. so you're not thinking about this and he said uh, 2 days ago that the yes uh huh. 60 days and the goals and yes, but they also, they don't make it off at all. they are in such a sleep possessing, to do is have to be in the and get the exist tapia, t t. and so the side to honestly, this is in the government and uh the ac, because uh, we bought it for the f. b is the way to class is gonna cost is every reason you formation this and our many easy for the whole for the and

the kind of the law was to be policy. the really yes, i say the next month and i can use the search can change the the system. yeah. and the bad of alcohol. so famously said that putting asked to change his position on ukraine $360.00 degrees. this lady is well good with numbers . okay. i can, you know, i, she's already with geography. she's not good with history. anyway, john, i'm back to business here. there seems to be a real serious effort to try to ban this political party. and there is a means to do it through the constitutional court. what does that mean to the fact that the read contemplating it? i mean, why can't they just, you know, they just don't trust voters, they don't trust the democratic process. what's, what's going on here, john? i want to answer on that piece of it,

but i just want to come and tell him your question to michael just now to me try it on his on. so i'm afraid i don't think we should get too carried away hoping that they. ready be a great left right alliance in favor of peace and ukraine, and essentially adopting what is caricature does it probably russian position the if day is very split on the issue of russia. it split among its leadership, the end, it splits among its members. there is in particular an east west split within the if day, we talked about the east germany leased and brought to germany a moment to go. the east mother, germany is more radical than the west of germany, which is more liberal about in the east of the anti russian feeling. which of which is a hangover from the communist period remains completely strong. and i don't think that we can say that the, if the electrodes in the eastern part of germany is necessarily probably russia in the ukraine conflicts. and in order for that to be in the lives with sort of

talking today, they would have to be a very strong united if the, because a position on this. and i fear that both are internal reasons. and also, by the way, for europe and political reasons, because the if day belongs to a group in the european parliament, which is definitely not probably russian, although some of its pop member policies may have been in the past for that reason as well. i think the i f days position on russia is relatively cautious. they cool, cool, stay cool for peace, which is regarded as being pro russian about. they all have a strong, as i say by these internal divisions. and indeed, the whole history of the i state has been one of the internal divisions. the policy has systematically lost its leaders. there's been splits. is one of these policies, but these very, very internally divided. okay. the only issue of finding yes, uh the german um oh, fits for the protection of the constitution as put it as the policy on the

surveillance put them under surveillance 2 years ago. and this shows once again, the tele, terry and drift of europe, europe. germany is not the only country where this is happening. it's also happening in the netherlands. we have for them, for democracy has been singled out by the dutch intelligent services as a danger to the states and the danger to democracy. but it shows the, the extreme decrepit to develop political systems. that policies which are not certainly a democratically elected but which are internally very democratic. i have days like many of the german political bosses just very internally democratic with lots of folks taking the most part team members, for example, folks who should be the candidates in such and such an election. yeah, i do that these people are a dangerous democracy, really is absolutely horrifying. and it shows indeed how the, the secret service is and they, they, they, they circled the bodies that are supposed to protect the constitution in these various states, call themselves the primary dangers of democracy. heidi mike. yeah,

ralph and you know it's, it's really kind of an echo of what they're trying to do to trump in his supporters . they. they want to get him off the ballot. ok. they don't want to give people the opportunity to vote for or against them. they tend to forget that that's how voting work to vote for or against something or someone against another person. you. they don't even want to give them that opportunity. what do you think they would, would there just be a positive exempt instead this party could be banned. but i mean, i'm saying and observing does leslie as well, but i must say here, this is only making the more popular it is. if you want to compare that with another lawsuit against prestone trauma, that makes it even more support the same be watched with the former east german, the ruling party, p d. s, the former communist or socialist body to try out into the body of democratic

socialism. often and walking down, they had all of the opposite nations by the office for protection of the so called constitution and all that, you know, and they, whenever they found is the link of griego, dc. one of the leaders of the party at that time the policy went up, the, the people united is behind this man the behind the party because i'm sort of directly under the same here as well. i mean they try to balance the party one time . that was the much an item accomplishment, but the national pop, the next little is really the professors potty actually. and they tried to bend the federal constitutional court as well. and it fades biggest thoughts about 10 years ago. so i'm so since that time we know it is not easy to band the parties. and especially by with some of the band, the, a f d. i mean, they are,

i mean down my thoughts on, on the opposite sides of the political spectrum. but what i own stuff is they are principally the democratically organized and okay, some members why something difficult sometimes, but what we're not that's democracy because because stand up become just liquid. i don't think that this is not a base to develop them to put that into that process of having it monte does is just making them more popular if they want this than yes, that's the way to do it. yeah, i'm michael. yeah. it seems to me that it be worrying about the growing popularity of the party isn't a deterrent from the powers that be on the. what we have in the west is very a hedge, a monic political class, and they will do everything in their power. we see it everywhere, they will do everything to protect their power. if it's even against public popular will, i think they will go after they have the go ahead,

a good sign to the service and the every time i don't know who this new. so it's not we need the safety is a lot of all this route, but by the, by the government and the see this, they see that the, um the government side. uh, but the deal to the side and yes is empty is becoming more and more. yeah. because it'd be better to see is the government side for this up to be. they have to vote you model the. and so that's because, uh the uh and the management services. and i don't see that the government size to boost to manage the d i v was it would be the best see that a fusion happens because the model is just to discuss

is the, the, this discussion, the, is the, the end as a process for that hire somebody needs to maybe 5 or more. yeah. and then since i've been on the west side in 203-2076, what it says, no, me trying to prove it is a full year and maybe certification for the the with the the and it just time when low. it's because people see so, so the government isn't c a and as i say, you have to both of the, you know, so i company uses the government, who's the well, you know, they're, you know, they think of going back to you on the going back to the issue of ukraine, i mean i see that i see the west being ukranian ice because zalinski band all of his opposition and it was a cheered by the west. okay. i cheered by the state department. so what's,

what's on a german political party, who cares about that? we're getting to the point where there's, we're going to be reasons for people, or there will be no reason for people to go to the polls. if the leads are going to determine who you can vote for, finish up for us, john. and yeah, i mean, i think that even if the policy is not bands, the fact that this has been formally declared to be under suspicion as it was in 2021. which means that uh the, uh, the custom shorts, the, the, the body which puts the allegedly protects the constitution can spy on the policy. you can listen to that phone conversations can put them on the formal suspicion. i think that that is already even if they are banned in a few, it's time that is itself a disgraceful step. because naturally it means that they are operating under control. that means that the policy members in leadership will practice self censorship and so on at so i, i don't think that the fact that the, uh any, any attempt to close it down like failed means that this attempt in itself is not

terrible. it is terrible. and i also think, and i think this is what you're suggesting in your question, peter, when you are in the situation of military conflict, as we are adoptable, the german foreign minister, as you've just said, has said we are well with russia. then all the usual se scouts about human rights deputies and so i'm go straight out of the window because if germany says, i'm johnny, i'm sorry on this very important point. john, i have to interrupt you. we have run out of time on a think, my guess, and parents do buy and cabinets and thanks. so our viewers for watching us here at our pc and next time and remember prospect. the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a

robot must obey the orders given by human beings except we're so shorter is it conflict with the 1st law show you alignment as a patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously, is to trust our relevant save the various jobs with the artificial intelligence we have summoning the demons the most protect this phone existence was on the we are in august on one of the most ethically and culturally diverse regions on the entire planet. as you make your way through the stop you will discover, each region is known for its own unique arts and traditions.

the quite natural talks between russian president vladimir putin as north korean leader, kim jong in a rock profit fever. fortunately, cosmo, thrown in boxes, flush reasonable to sacred struggle into the senate, state solving and protected securities in all positions development and germany forces that oppose russia. our meeting takes place of the special times. it was our country that was the 1st to recognize the silver and independent states of the dpr k and health to defied towards independence. new claim to give to ross is this of a stop or with 10 missiles and 3 on minds both leaving at least $24.00 people ended on a ship building, clogged on fire and sneezes military governments.