what's to examples, but the indicator here is, or what is important is the out of leak given the new dynamic leadership in the region has found a way to create a consensus. and this is a very promising a signal for the future of the automatic itself. think of all the kind of unsolved on results, conflicts, and issues that, that we've had with regards to your comment about the u. s. not being very happy about a subs uh return. i fully understand america has its own interest that it needs to protect in invite, problematic, the no, no, no, he would say with the never know business for no, i mean they, they do have interest and they have security interest that they need to, to protect. but we also need to take this in context, which is very important. this isn't a making up with, with a set for see what has been communicated since the story started leaking. and, and, and, and prevailing is that this is being done to create better conditions for the serial

people as you know, very well. i've seen insanity is trying to do the same thing and expecting a different result. now i can go on and on about, for example, if i want to tell you what, why is a, why did see to keep that seat at the u. n. i mean, you can start from there if you were western country, but what is important to you is this is a condition of return to the, at a league. and the number one condition is creating a better environment for the return of cdns, which is obviously very good for syrians themselves. but if you think about the refugee crisis in, in europe and around the world, if people stop and think about that, this is actually very good for the hold with. yeah. but you can imagine being in washington or london, they're given to the united states. okie buys a 3rd of syria and the oil fields and is accused of stealing the oil. and there is roger eliza do wants to claim parts of his country back. there's does seem to be some type of level of negotiation at some kind of level even between us and then the other one. i don't know what's going to happen on that result the at tomorrow.

i mean, so all of that obviously is going to, they knew inside of your area that it was going to include the roof of washington. what so many things did incurred the rest of, of, of washington. but a lot of things that the western countries, including the united states, have done have upset. so the idea now, i'm not for a moment suggesting that, you know, there's a break in the traditional alliance between the 2 countries. but there is very harsh differences of opinion, for example, a few days into the binding administration of civilian airports in saudi arabia were being deliberately targeted by, by the whole fees, the whole of the, by the administration. remove the hotel from the federalist with that, or is this then, you know, people are watching the, so show need to think about it this way. how would you as an american feel if j. s . k was being bummed by a terrorist group in canada or mexico and then an arab country or muslim country is very reluctant to call it that, that, or is that that,

or has the power to keep the monitors list and remove them off, whatever it is. so is that, do you think that was the by the ministration blink and so on, actually saying, saudi arabia, you play ball and do what we say in your region, or we don't care, we'll even work with the, we work with anyone to hurt you. i, i honestly don't think it was that malicious american officials that i spoke to, or during this period it all say agree that it was a miscalculation, for example. they say that withdrawal of the patriot themselves, which as you know, i've seen is a defensive technology. nothing offensive, nobody was asking the americans to take part in the one say they don't even work. well, that's a, that's a separate discussion. but me, i do have a feeling you may and may i just to remind you of the difficulties, official, the slogan is not the. so the area there, officials slogan is the america. so we were waging a war and at the request of illegitimate government, of the human against administer group that deliberately targets the civilians

incipient areas by default that should be called, etc, etc. and this was the beginning of the kind of a and disagreements on automatically, the global south audience isn't going to be surprised given the levels of information that's now there about us. and british complicity with the extreme is groups in syria fake chemical attacks and all sorts of things. i mean, i want to ask you the most of our them uses the voice of a changing region. i don't know when was that there before you started it? our view is that that was my fingerprint on, on the front page. and it surprise even you, because you seem to be is if this was all in the pipeline, when going underground sort of broadcasting from here. there was no deal with the run. there was no deal with syria. how quickly it all the things changing any how uh, what's an acceleration to we expect. so when we were in the brainstorming session to come up with that tag line and we take, you know, i think for pride with me and my team about it,

we knew things were changing. for example, at that time, to talk about women driving the curbing the powers of the rid of just police, which is phenomenon. we just had. i honestly say that we, nobody had any idea how massive the changes are going to be. when you talk about the aging brokerage, so the around the deal, i don't think anybody in their wildest imagination would have imagined both that this would happen. but also this would happen this quickly. literally president g came to sell the area in december. the deal was signed in, in march. now i know there were previous discussions before we cover that here. it's a but that's at this to many for chinese, the efficiency and at this to me and an indicator that when you get the right me the 8th or somebody was leverage over a, you done and you play your cards, right? you can come up with a deal which again, like i was saying about the syria issue, i cannot see how this harms was through an interest. in the contrary, everybody has an interest in a stable, middle east. everybody has an interest in safe message of all your shipments to the

goals through the red sea. everybody has an interest in, you know, curbing or a tackling terrorist groups or advocating them completely. i've, i've been to, you know, conferences and seen enough americans off the record, explain that. there are many forces in nature, nations believe the opposite to what you just said. they are interested in instability and limit least they want to create instability, unlimited needs because they fear about for middle east and they fear desperately united are well i, i really don't know what to tell me. i've seen because i've been at the receiving ends of as you probably guess, being the outward looking or english language newspaper of the region. and my, my answer is that, look when we're escalating, we get condemned when we're the escalating, we get content. so it's a really a situation if you're done, if you do, and you don't see that, we go to the stage that way. like who guess? no. so no, i think it's been a huge, you know, it was and i think in, you know,

the leadership has in that, that seems atlantic interview. the conference has said that we, we don't care what other people think because we believe we are doing the right thing. and uh, you know, if you look at all of these decisions, they do not only serve. so the areas of interest, these are regional interest and international interest, but really i believe it's not our problem. if other people are failing to recognize the opportunity here. i mean, why would the country like so the be a, put all of these resources to help evacuate citizens from all over the world, from, from so then, you know, if we were in even a country, we're not, you know, we are typically trying, we're trying hard to help we're trying help to lose or must have resources which god has given us to help everybody else. but you know, if somebody fails to see the bigger picture, that is their problem. what about, of course, the united states would say, i think many people would say that usaid and v 8 industry is used by so well as

to the, to get the geopolitical leverage and has been in, in the past. i've watched interviews with you when you really the international for them all over the world. do you think it's a level of racism or the geo political fear of it's a play when they seem to suggest for women's rights or they will concentrate on some issue. and i know we were one of the 1st. you immediately changed your news room to have uh more women in the news room. and so how, how do you react to this is orient list, be abuse that the arab countries don't decide you're able to get in nature nation media? look, i think it's a short answer would be all of the above. it's a bit of ignorance. it's a bit of oriented it's, it's, it's a bit oriented isn't. it's a bit of agendas, but mostly i would like to go to winston churchill and who said, you know, the americans will do the right thing after they've tried everything else. the number of meetings, or re, things that i've been, you know, attending, or seen or heard of. and the amount of advice that has been given to washington and

back from the barrack obama. these, you know, we told them, you know, you cannot appease a monster. the it run nuclear, a threat is the clear and present danger, but it's not the only danger when you know inject cache into the 3 team, you're instigating the other line activities. and what was the response of, of the hosting, as well as you know, are supported by it on the attack, the u. s. navy, 3 times in the last 4 months of the obama and the u. s. navy, which i'm sure was very humiliating for many of the generals, and many of the military men and women in service. they did not respond because the administration at the time did not want anything to interfere with the run. okay. we don't wanna sound like a normal drum broadcast, because that is what the drum says all the time. what about the shadow of a rock? because of in britain, in the united states, those as the makers who supported the destruction of a rock. they,

they're well in with the political firmament, whether it be and re clinton or advisors to the people involved in with the georgia bush, junior, george w bush shed junior administration. what is the shadow of a rock because the imagination, st. kind of forgotten? absolutely. um, and i just want to tell you this with the last answer that i, i've given iraq was another example. where'd we'd desperately try to advise the us? not to do it in 2003, and people who cover the what, remember what the position of saudi arabia the leadership at the time. so this coming sold them is management. there was no question that us was going to win the war, but how are you going to manage the, the to and we were proven a right when speaking we spoke about the shuttle asset and the seed in region. when president obama said that the using chemical weapons is a red line and then the that's really the awkward youtube and we gave them advice, but there were no chemical weapons used by the bus or less at the administration when i have my different self anything and i mean, why the long name is

a lot to be in read about that, but the what, you know, what it, what i do know is, after i, i know you, i know that you don't want this to sound like a president. trump the interest. but what i can use back in control, but the, but i do know is when trump strikes against i said there were no reports whether people choose to believe them or not. uh, there were no um, further reports about using chemical weapons face. so i was hoping that more from the editor in chief of arab muse, mandatory a board member of our a, be a news general off of this break the,

the, the, the, the, the, to produce to use it. those are the additional sort of what i'm not going to be on the back. let's get your mama dora slash pursuing the flash. yeah, because i moved enough. i just want the socialist lives up to the much me on this

website because the symbol which is good for those who release to be moved on to something on a computer or device the the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the editor in chief of our muse faithful of us. the reason i said the shadow of iraq, because we had the ex advisor to as a lensky, is commander in chief on the show just the other day. and he's a us veteran speaking to me from west point. he said the iraq war was worth it,

and they're gonna use this kind of a rock with strategy against russia and ukraine. how widely held is the view in the world away from a year into these the believes iraq was worth it to the and then if you complain about the casualties of the 10s of millions killed when due to a displaced by all those was it's kind of going through old history or not recognizing american supremacy and i own that the united states did the right thing, you know, a big sign of poles and that's a driven during that. and so, and i would hate to speak on behalf of the arb street. that's a very complicated question, but um, what i can safely say is people judged by the outcome and what is the outcome the iraq become better or worse? iraq became far worse and i have complete understanding and i have my own criticisms. any issues of up to some of them seem to be doing this and not the

criticism of this have done this. i think all of us would be critically at least a 1000. what does it mean? it's hardly not to write that, but what i'm talking about is the mismanagement of the day to of, of, of the iraq which has led to you can argue really say the creation of the dash, etc, etc. so people judge by the outcome and the outcome in this instance wasn't positive now to the kinds of propaganda against the arab world. how. how do you counter of the nature nation propaganda against the outer world in, in general, not just from your appearance is presumably at conferences and international for how to journalist to work for you at our muse. do that because presumably in the news room, they can see with narrative being constructed and propagated for various reasons. i mean, look, we are not without our shortcomings and not without our own mistakes. we work hard to tell, reflect the most accurate it's the story we, we, we can, there has been instances where we've corrected stories of a and, you know,

challenged newspapers like the new york times and we were proven. right. and so if you know not every story that is published is wrong or inaccurate, but by then you call contracting. the kind of propaganda. yeah. when i find in the us open, so we do uh, you know, we're very cautious that we are not the ministry of media of so the be aware and use deeper and you know, there are limits to so we can and we cannot do. um, i'm on the record uh saying this on another occasion is we as a country as a whole and need to do a better job in telling the amazing progress. and i, i do honestly think, i know people are watching this interview and expect me to say this, here's a drill and it's from saudi arabia. he's of course, going to kind of a lawyer and build his own horn and see nice things. but the, the, the, the sheer amount of, of the she magnitude of change that has happened over the past 6 years is unbelievable. i, you know, if i were to go back 6 years and

a half when i started doing, and i wouldn't ask again, not only would i do this job again, i would actually pay for it because it is remarkable to be there when women started driving, when cinemas, re open when for the 1st time in at least the last 40 years, the religious police where uh, you know, the powers of their industries were finally put in in check and you don't see them anymore. and i don't think people get, we give enough credit for that single. yeah, i understand that they have that information and some of it is even coming out into nature of nation media. but do you think that the, the nato nations who have a desire to control saudi arabia, not only how production saudi arabia, but uh, give me control elements of geo politically, which views that here, maybe it takes because it's a superpower. this region. do you think we'll just go? yeah, things about it. well, i mean, what a more tricks of this leave next to try and destroy, you must have witnessed it as

a try and destroys ad. uribe is reputation around the world, the media. i know they always talk about you being a state of control, arguably, i think you probably can see how state control nature nation meet here is what, what are you expecting the latest lives and defamation against that? are you ready to look in? if there is, isn't that driven media interest, you can't really blame them because there isn't that driven what you really surprises me sometimes is how know you have some of the people receiving media is it's not really that hard to fact check these days. it's not really hard to find another source and, and compare, compare notes and see what, what is actually happening. you know, if i want to go in and other stuff, it's not hard now that over 50 countries can come without a visa to, to solve the review. it's not hard to come and check for yourselves. and there's been an inflow of a lot of during this from, you know, all the way from tokyo to toronto coming to saudi arabia to find and, you know, i, you know, with a few exceptions, i cannot think of one person who didn't see with the positive impression not

because we're putting on a show or propaganda the because the, the, the, the misconception is so grief a outside and i get it's, we've been across the country for a very long time. we've done wrong things for a very long time, but i just do think the audience needs to approach this with the, with an open mind. and you know, if there is an agenda driven during that isn't there's a lot of ways they can check check. do you think you're increasing? are you going to look at double standards? has visualization media criticizes out here? maybe i know your coverage of julian is anjanette news. i've noticed that the kinds of, uh, we're now in a stage where our meet here is beginning to realize that the, the kind of a colonial mentality of the great to west and the ideas of freedom are not quite as they were doing is obviously the most famous john is in the world, is in jail in love. look not, we're going to say what it's not like we're going to start. we've already started then i'll give you a very quick example. around 2 years ago. the who sees burnt 40. if you open

refugees a life and you know this was coming of the heels of the below the black lives matters movement. i sold the news. i did not see it on any international. when most international media outlets didn't cover it. what i expected is, you know, if the introduction media and i'm here to say all lives matter every life in a sense, life loss is a life too many. but if you're going to do all of that media coverage for floyd, and may he rest in peace within, i expect 14 more. uh, 14 much as much coverage for the 44 if you want the and refugees who would bring to life. but by the who with these, you know what we did, we started contacting newspapers in britain and the u. k. one by one and sending them email and footage and say, are you going to cover? only one of them. uh, replied. the main black lives matter movement in america didn't reply. there was a splinter organization of it that came and shame them for not doing that. and you know, it will always be those who would fees would deny that that happens. i think i remember

in that in that case, but today it's not just a matter of ignoring your latches. however, the roof of which your remember i on the editorial board like fox news like or t like, i don't know how many of the television stations i don't even bothering to get they're all going to go. you could government center license. why, why would that be a way? does a, do you don't care about being broadcast in britain for you to ask? i'm sure if you ask the management of a lot of the, of the will give you a more update to date. uh, answer on that seem to navigate press really well look. i mean, i've been asked this question in the u. k. and you know, it's very easy to come with kind of a stiff upper lip and accuse us of all sorts of things. but you know, we are with we are, we don't have a 1st amendment in, in the, out of what we have to work in very tough condition. i'm talking about no, but, but let me see what i could for you to run. i'm nathan. no, i mean i'm not, but i'm getting to that point so we don't have it. so by default,

that means when we do something, could they just when we do something professional, we should be uploaded? not the other way around. there's nothing special about the new york times or the washington post doing what they're supposed to be doing, given that their legal framework protects them to do it. but as you mentioned, who's perfect, you know, i was on a bbc review interview and saying, you know, you're, you're asking people for protesting or tweeting. and i say, did you not watch the controls coordination? you know, and the 1st time we know when people who are being arrested literally for having blank posters. so, you know, i think everybody needs to have a deep look insight before throwing bricks at other people you mentioned visually on a song, should i still remember when you know, a british security forces read the offices of the guardian and force during the rest of the story, laptops and computers and hard disk, you know, that is only less than 10 years old. so nobody's perfect to you. you'd expect at any time the saudis security forces coming into the arab news and faxing

a laptop in front of you. you know, you would be, you'd be like probably there's a god in the british. i seen, you'd be surprised that i'm seeing this, but i am more comfortable in working as a journalist in saudi arabia. and as i know how this sounds, but i'm more comfortable working as a journalist and so the review then having to deal with companies like cart the rock in, in the u. k, which is the level of capital of the was really be to cut her rock would deny what you're saying. you know how that agency is. we want to keep going on next path. right? and you know, this is not encouraging. you does nothing wrong, is that up is uh, you know, encouraging the abuse or going after people unfairly. but you know, the laws in the u. k are pretty direct union. so i feel much more comfortable working in saudi arabia, knowing that the way we're headed with the vision 2030 we're, it has to happen that we're going to have more transparency because this is a whole and vision that is based on accountability, transparency, setting targets for a and keep your eyes for ministers and government officials. we're not there that, but i'm sure we're going to get there. what happens though, and i have to say,

i feel more comfortable here clearly because i moved from london over here. and we had the united nation special replica that talk about torture of juliet assigned you in london. but what about of the fact that the love of arab journalists in this reach may be an educated american universities and british interest and inherit some of these orient list ideas? no fully understanding that the world is a apology. we reckon with now along with breaks look, i'm my, my thing is i always see everybody. and i mean, everybody needs a system update on what the article is, particularly the gcc that has become and there, there are many outdated, unfortunately, sometimes even by our own people who maybe have spent a long time abroad. but this is as the guidelines of our newspaper says, this is a changing region. it has changed dramatically in the last few years. with regards to, you know, the, you know, western media told me about

a lead glass arabs. we don't realize that actually you don't need to count to west of foreign policy. look, we wouldn't do what is in our interest, i think is the message. and we would make sure that our interest doesn't harm your interest, which i think is a, is a fair game. but if anybody, i believe that if anybody is expecting a free ride, that doesn't happen anymore and breaks. if you did, that's a variety of inside your radio is going to be the rest of your one set to join. the brakes you expect that here may be a to be bought of brakes. and i mean, it's a very complicated negotiations. what i do know is there's a friends of ricks meeting happening in south africa beginning of june, where so the idea is invited. i know there is serious talks to invite the leadership to come to the summit in august. how that's materializes. i don't know, and it's too early to judge, but you know, the kingdom has signaled in recent years that it's wants to consider alliances with

all sorts of blocks in the world in a way that serves its own interest, regional interest and international interest. and there is no reason why we shouldn't talk to um, you know, the bricks group and see if we can align our interest with their so well as the american say, do you, do, you know, like china dual is american innovation, there's nothing we are, will not be the global south having to do it's full of innovation in that kind of know how that the americans in the west, the opinions can just tell me what you thought about the astronauts. but i, i'm always saying it ironically tell me, by the way, your thoughts with you as even though it is, i think you might have to explain it because internationally, maybe it's not known. well as you know. so the already the, it was the 1st out of country it to send an out of most of them to space. this was in 1985, it was a prince, some funding settlement. and now there's a whole program of the se based program. and we want to catch up with our uh, brothers here in the u. e. in other signal that the whole region is, is rising. so

a few days ago to us or in us the 1st ever female. so the us or not went through the international as i know by the way. yes. the young and from the you a the yeah, but he was there, he was there a few months they've asked me to scan the americans without the frank. i don't think it should scare anybody. they are going there to do research, but it's a signal that, you know, we want to be part of and you know, this was launched from the us. we also just signed a, we need almost yes. and we also just signed as a country $37000000000.00 of boeing planes that are on the $121.00 to supply the new airlines that we're building for a 40 on. so again, people, you know, see one part of the story, but don't see the other part of the story. if we were so anti american or one to break up with the america, why would we launch? there are other countries that we can launch a to space from, and there are other countries that can, that make equally good at airplanes. so i think there is this view to try to simplify things and look at it from one perspective,

but not to look at the whole story. so thank you. you'll have to go on an update just as far as changing the region continues. that's over the show will be back on monday, would be for the goldman sachs that go on mister. going the acronym break below jim o'neil to talk about the rising breaks and it's the challenge of the g 7. but until then, you give a judge my role as social media. if it's not the sense that in your country and had to watch, i'm going on the run tv on normal, don't come to watch new and old episodes of going underground. see monday the asia and can speak for a free we can, we are free to do whatever is in the interest of each year. so with that, uh,

i believe with uh, wisdom eyes. uh, but not. is this a non issue for the 1941 with the nazis health probation, ultra national is the was tasha's, the claim, the independent state of croatia. shortly on the seizing power. they build the scene of us concentration camp a place associated with the worst atrocities committed in yugoslavia during world war 2. the stash is used to come system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities, and political opponents of the fascist regime. conditions in the scene of us. campbell, who renders the gods to which it to arise and the prisoners they send in the concentration camps. so most of them died. it was

incredible genocide. the ukraine's minute truth. folks pass and threatens and finance to john list his dad to question, see ups narrative and publish tests and it's open to national election, absolves names pulling the voltage so it's you know, fast. so just a friendship that saves defense out to shapes and leave the country within 2 weeks, alleging he's engaged in act to undermine the west african nation didn't. and the way i wanted it to didn't end the way any of us one of 12, a child man or the joint chief. so to talk for the us on full says pay favor point . now washington missed opportunities in his red. i'm at the 2nd out of us 3 of americans withdrawal from our campus called.