to rejoin and attend. oh, i agree with you perfectly about the importance of, of the summit and what was more important wasn't the actual attendance of the shuttle. i said, but many people are not seeing the back story here. at the back story is there was an arab summit with arab leaders who have distinctly different points of view about the return of the shuttle. i said to the arab league, you know, if you have, for example, on one end, the united there been there, it's, and you have on the other end, a caught who was tricky, oppose it was strictly apples. but the end of the k through here is, or what is important is the out of leak given the new dynamic leadership in the region has found a way to create a consensus. and this is a very promising a signal for the future of the automatic itself. think of all the kind of unsolved on results, conflicts, and issues that we've had with regards to your comment about the u. s. not being very happy about the assets uh return. i fully understand america has its own

interest that it needs to protect in invite, problematic, the no, no, no, he would say with the never know business for no, i mean they, they do have interest and they have security interest that they need to, to protect. but we also need to take this in context, which is very important. this isn't a making up with, with a set per se, what has been communicated since the story started leaking and, and, and, and prevailing. is that this is it being done to create better conditions for the city of people as you know very well i've seen insanity is trying to do the same thing and expecting a different result. now i can go on and on about, for example, if i want to tell you what, why is uh, why did see to keep that seat at the u. n. i mean, you can start from there if you were the western country, but what is important to you is this as a condition of return to the, at a league. and the number one condition is creating a better environment for the return of cdns, which is obviously very good for syrians themselves. but if you think about the

refugee crisis in, in europe and around the world is people stop and think about that. this is actually very good for the hold with. yeah, but you can imagine being in washington or london or given to the united states, okie buys, a 3rd of syria and the oil fields and is accused of stealing the oil. and there is roger eliza, do wants to claim parts of his country back there's does seem to be some type of level of negotiation at some kind of level even between us and then the other one. i don't know what's going to happen on that result. the ad tomorrow, i mean sort of that obviously is going to, they knew inside the ravia that it was going to incur the wrath of washington. what so many things did incur the rest of, of, of washington. but it's a lot of things that the western countries, including the united states, have done have upset. so the idea now i'm not for a moment is suggesting that, you know, there's a break in the traditional alliance between the 2 countries. but there is very, a harsh differences of opinion, for example,

a few days into the binding administration. as a civilian airports in saudi arabia were being deliberately targeted by, by the whole fees, the whole of the, by the administration remove the hotels from the federalist. is that, or is this then, you know, people are watching the, so show, need to think about it. this way, how would you as an american feel if j s. k was being bombed by a terrorist group in canada or mexico. and then an arab country or muslim country, is very reluctant to call it that, that, or is that that, or has the power to keep the monitors list and remove them off, whatever it is. so is that, do you think that was the by the ministration blink and so on, actually saying, saudi arabia, you play ball and do what we say in your region 4, we don't care, we'll even work with the we work with anyone to hurt you. i, i honestly don't think it was that malicious american officials that i spoke to, or during this period, it all say agree that it was a miscalculation, for example,

they say the withdrawal of the patriot missiles, which as you know of seen is a defensive technology. nothing offensive, nobody was asking the americans to take part in the what i'm say, they don't even work. well, that's a, that's a separate discussion. but me, i to have re feelings you may and may, i just to remind you that difficulties official slogan is not the. so the area there, officials slogan is the america. so we were waging a war and at the request of illegitimate government, of the human against administer group that deliberately targets a civilian since the beginning areas by default that should be called, etc, etc. and this was the beginning of the kind of the disagreements on automatically, the global south audience isn't going to be surprised given the levels of information that's now there about us. and british complicity with the extreme is groups in syria fake chemical attacks and all sorts of things. i mean, i want to ask you the most you about them uses the voice of a changing region. i don't know when was that there before you started it?

our view is that that was my fingerprint on, on the front page. and it surprise even you, because you seem to be is if this was all in the pipeline. when going on to go and sort of broadcasting from here. there was no deal with the run. there was no deal with syria. how quickly it all the things changing any how uh, what's an acceleration to expect? so when we were in the brainstorming session to come up with that tagline and we take, you know, i think for pride with me and my team about it, we knew things were changing. for example, at that time, to talk about women driving the curbing the powers of the rid of just police, which is phenomenon. we just had. i honestly say that we, nobody had any idea how massive the changes are going to be. when you talk about the aging brokerage, so the around the deal, i don't think anybody in their wildest imagination would have imagined both that this would happen. but also this would happen this quickly. literally president g came to sell the area in december. the deal assigned in,

in march. now i know there were previous discussions before we cover that. here is a, but that's at this to many for chinese, the efficiency and efficiently and an indicator that when you get the right me the 8th or somebody was leverage over a, you done and you play your cards, right? you can come up with a deal which again, like i was saying about the serious issue. i cannot see how this harms western interest in the country. everybody has an interest in a stable, middle east. everybody has an interest in safe passage of only of shipments through the gulf, through the red sea. everybody has an interest in, you know, curbing or a tackling terrorist groups or advocating them completely. i've, i've been to, you know, conferences and seeing enough americans off the record, explain that there are many forces in nature, nations believe the opposite to what you just said. they are interested in instability and limit least they want to create instability, unlimited needs because they fear about for middle east and they fear desperately.

the united are well i, i really don't know what to tell me. i've seen because i've been at the receiving ends of as you probably guess, being the outward looking or english language newspaper of the region. and my, my answer is that, look when we're escalating, we get condemned when we're the escalating, we get content. so it's a really a situation if you're done, if you do, and you don't see that, we go to the stage that way. like who guess? no. so no, i think it's vacant. you do care? no, it was. and i think in, you know, the leadership has, in that, that seems atlantic interview the conference has said like we, we don't care what other people think because we believe we are doing the right thing. and uh, you know, if you look at all of these decisions, they do not only serve so the areas of interest, these are regional interest and international interest. but really i believe it's not our problem. if other people are failing to recognize the opportunity here. i mean, why would the country like so the review with all of these resources to help evacuate

citizens from all over the world, from, from so then, you know, if we were in either country, we're not, you know, we are typically trying. we're trying hard to help, we're trying help to lose or must have resources which god has given us to help everybody else. but, you know, if somebody fails to see the bigger picture, that is their problem. what about, of course, the united states would say, i think many people would say that usaid and v 8 industry is used by somebody who has to get the geopolitical leverage and has been in, in the past. i've watched interviews with you when you really the international for them all over the world. do you think it's a level of racism or the geo political fear that's a play when they seem to suggest for women's rights or they will concentrate on some issue. and i know you were one of the 1st. you immediately changed your news room to have uh more women in the news room. and so how, how do you react to this is orient list, be abuse that the arab countries don't decide you're able to get in nature nation

media? look, i think it's a short answer would be all of the above. it's a bit of ignorance. it's a bit of oriented it's, it's, it's a bit oriented isn't. it's a bit of agendas, but mostly i would like to go to winston churchill and who said, you know, the americans will do the right thing after they've tried everything else. the number of meetings, or re, things that i've been, you know, attending, or seen or heard of. and the amount of advice that has been given to washington and back from the barrack obama. these, you know, we told them, you know, you cannot appease a monster, be it run nuclear. a threat is the clear and present danger, but it's not the only danger when you know inject cache into the 3 gene, you're instigating the other uh, malign activities. and what was the response of the, of the whole, the school as you know, are supported by it on the attack, the u. s. navy, 3 times in the last 4 months of. but that's the obama and the u. s. navy,

which i'm sure was very humiliating. for many of the generals and many of the military men and women in service, they did not respond because the administration at the time did not want anything to interfere with the run. okay. we don't wanna sound like a donald trump broadcast, because that is what the drum says all the time. what about the shadow of a rock? because of in britain, in the united states, those policy makers who supported the destruction of a rock. they there well in with the political firmament, whether it be ellery clinton or advisors to the people involved in the georgia bush, junior, george w bush shed junior administration. what do use the shadow of iraq because uh, in a donation. same kind of forgotten. uh, absolutely. um, and i just want to tell you this with the last answer that i, i've given iraq was another example. where'd we'd desperately tried to advise the us? not to do it in 2003, and people who cover the what,

remember what the position of solidarity the leadership at the time. so this coming sold them is management. there was no question that us was going to in the war, but how are you going to manage the, the to and we were proven a right when speaking we spoke about the shuttle asset and the seed in region. when president obama said that the using chemical weapons is a red line and then the that's really the awkward user and we gave them advice, but there were no chemical weapons used by the bus or our last at the administration. when i have my different self anything and i mean why the long name is it blocked me and read about that, but there was no matter what i do know is after i, i know you, i know that you don't want this to sound like a president. trump the interest, but what i can use back in control, but i do know is when trump strikes against i said there were no reports whether people choose to believe them or not. uh, there were no um, further reports about using chemical weapons faced. i'll have somebody that will offer me the editor in chief of our muse mandatory, a board member of our a, be a news general off of his break. the,

the russian states. never as one of the most sense community best, most all sense and up the in the 65. let's be the one else calls question about this. even though we will ben in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on russia to day and split the r t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services, which is the same. they requested the

asia and can speak to each other. we can, we are free to do whatever is in the interest of each year. so with that, i believe with the wisdom eyes of but not if it's a non issue for us news . the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the editor in chief of our news. thanks. a lot of us. the reason i said the shadow of their arguments is we had the ex advisor to lensky is commander in chief on this show. just the in the day, and he's

a us veteran speaking to me from west point. he said the iraq war was worth it. and they're gonna use this kind of a rockwell strategy against russia and ukraine. how widely held is the view in the world away from here, and it really is the believes iraq was worth it to the and then if you complain about the casualties and the 10s of millions killed when due to a displaced by all those was it's kind of going through old history or not recognizing american supremacy and i own that the united states did the right thing . you know, i'm a big fan of poles and that's a driven during that isn't so and i would hate to speak on behalf of the arb street . that's a very complicated question. but um, uh, what i can safely say is people judged by the outcome and what is the outcome the iraq become better or worse? iraq became far worse and i have complete understanding and i have my own

criticisms. any issues about this of them seem to be doing this and not the criticism of this have done this. i think all of us will be critically based without what i mean. it's hardly not to write this, but what i'm talking about is the mismanagement of the day to of, of, of the iraq which has led to you can argue really say the creation of the dash, etc, etc. so people judge by the outcome and the outcome in this instance wasn't positive now to the kinds of propaganda against the arab world. how, how do you counter of the nation ation propaganda against the outer world in, in general, not just from your appearance is presumably at conferences and international for how to journalist to work for you at our muse. do that because presumably in the news room, they can see with narrative being constructed and propagated for various reasons. i mean, look, we are not without our shortcomings and not without our own mistakes. we work hard to tell, reflect the most accurate story we, we, we can,

there has been instances where we've corrected stories of a and, you know, challenged newspapers like the new york times and we were proven. right. and so it's, you know, not every story that is published is wrong or inaccurate, but by then you call counteracting the kind of propaganda. yeah. when i find in the us, so we do, you know, we're very cautious that we are not the ministry of media of so you have to be aware and you steeper and you know, there are limits to, to be done. and we cannot do. um, i'm on the record uh, seeing this on the number location is we as a country as a whole, i need to do a better job in telling the amazing progress. and i, i do honestly think, i know people are watching this interview and expect me to say this, here's a drill and it's from saudi arabia. he's of course, going to kind of a lawyer and go his own horn and see nice things. but the, the, the, the sheer amount of, of the she magnitude of change that has happened over the past 6 years is

unbelievable. i, you know, if i were to go back 6 years and a half when i started doing, and i wouldn't ask again, not only would i do this job again, i would actually pay for it because it is remarkable to be there when women started driving, when cinemas reopen when for the 1st time in at least the last 40 years. the religious police where uh, you know, the powers of their industries were finally put in in check and you don't see them anymore. and i don't think people get, we give you enough credit for that single. yeah, i understand that and they have that information and some of it is even coming out into nature of nation media. but do you think that the, the nato nations who have a desire to control saudi arabia, not only how production it's uh, the array of you. but uh, given the control elements of geopolitically, which views out here, maybe it takes because it's a superpower. this region, do you think we'll just go? yeah, things a better? well, i mean, what are your tricks of this leave next to try and destroy,

you must have witnessed it as a try and destroys ad uribe is reputation around the world, the media. i know they always talk about you being a state of control. arguably, i think you probably can see a state control, nate or nation meet here is what, what are you expecting the latest fluids and defamation against that? are you ready to look in? if there is, isn't that driven media interest, you can't really blame them because there isn't the driven what you really surprises me sometimes is how naive some of the people are receiving media is. it's not really that hard to fact check these days. it's not really hard to find another source and, and compare, compare notes and see what, what is actually happening. you know, if i want to go in and other stuff, it's not hard now that over 50 countries can come without the visa to, to solve the ruby. it's not hard to come and check for yourselves. and there's been an inflow of a lot of during that is from, you know, all the way from tokyo to toronto coming to saudi arabia to find and, you know, i,

you know, with a few exceptions, i cannot think of one person who didn't see with the positive impression, not because we're putting on a show or propaganda, but because the, the, the, the misconception is so grief outside and i get it's, we've been across the country for a very long time. we've done wrong things for a very long time, but i just do think the audience needs to approach this with the, with an open mind. and you know, if there is an agenda driven during that isn't there's a lot of ways they can check check. do you think you're increasing? are you going to look at double standards? has visualization media criticizes out here? maybe i know your coverage of julian is anjanette or muse. i've noticed that the kinds of, uh, we're now in a stage where our media is beginning to realize that the kind of a colonial mentality of the great to west and the ideas of freedom are not quite as they were. the julian is obviously the most famous john is in the world, is in jail in love. look not, we're going to say what it's not like we're going to start. we've already started.

then i'll give you a very quick example. around 2 years ago, the who sees burnt 40. if you open refugees a life. and you know this was coming of the heels of the below the black lives matters movement. i sold the news. i did not see it on any international. when most of the nation media outlets didn't cover it, what i expected is, you know, if the introduction media and i'm here to say old lives matter every life goodness of life loss is a life too many. but if you're going to do all of that media coverage for floyd, and may he rest in peace within, i expect 14 more. uh, 14 much as much coverage for the 44. if you want the and refugees who would birth a life. but by the who with these, you know what we did, we started contacting newspapers in britain and the u. k. one by one and sending them email and footage and say, are you going to cover? only one of them. i replied, the main black lives matter movement in america didn't reply. there was a splinter organization of it that came and shame them for not doing that and you

know, it will they always do this? who would fees would deny that that happens? i think i remember in that in that case, but today it's not just a matter of ignoring your latches. and however, the roof of which your remember i, on the editorial board like fox news like, or t like, i don't know how many on the television stations, i don't even bothering to get their all going to go. you can government center license. why, why would that be a way? does a do you don't care about being broadcast in britain for you to and i'm sure if you ask the management of a lot of the a they will give you a more update to date. the answer on that symptomatic impress, really what look. i mean, i've been asked this question in the u. k. and you know, it's very easy to come with kind of a stiff upper lip and accuse us of all sorts of things. but you know, we are with we are, we don't have the 1st amendment in indiana, but we have to work in very tough condition. i'm talking about no, but, but let me know, nathan, no,

i mean i'm not but i'm getting to that point. so we don't have it, so by default that means when we do something, could they just when we do something professional, we should be uploaded that the other way around. there's nothing special about the new york times or the washington post doing what they're supposed to be doing, given that their legal framework protects them to do it. but as you mentioned, who is perfect. you know, i was on a bbc review interview and saying, you know, you're, you're asking people for protesting or tweeting. and i say, did you not watch the controls coordination? you know, and the 1st time we know when people who are being arrested literally for having blank posters. so, you know, i think everybody needs to have a deep look insight before throwing bricks at other people you mentioned visually on a song, should i still remember when you know, a british security forces read the offices of the guardian and force during the rest of the story, laptops and computers and hard disk, you know, that is only less than 10 years old. so nobody's perfect to you. you'd expect at any time was added security forces coming into the arab news and i'm axing

a laptop in front of you. you know, you would be, you'd be like probably there's a god in the british. i seen, you'd be surprised that i'm seeing this, but i am more comfortable in working as a journalist in saudi arabia. and as i know how this sounds, but i'm more comfortable working as a journalist and so the review then having to deal with companies like cart the rock in, in the u. k, which is the level of capital of the weatherly, be the cause of rock would deny what you're saying. you know how that agency is. we want to keep going under trials, right? and you know, this is not encouraging. you does nothing wrong is not up. is uh you know, encouraging the abuse or going after people unfairly. but you know, the laws in the u. k are pretty direct union. so i feel much more comfortable working in saudi arabia, knowing that the way we're headed with the vision 2030 we're, it has to happen that we're going to have more transparency because this is a whole and vision that is based on accountability, transparency, setting targets for a and keep the eyes for ministers and government officials. we're not there that,

but i'm sure we're going to get there. what happens though, and i have to say, i feel more comfortable here clearly because i moved from london over here. and we had the united nation special are open to a talk about torture of julia and assigned you in london. but what about as the fact that the love of arab journalists in this wage, maybe an educated american universities and british interest executive, and inherit some of these orient list ideas? no fully understanding that the world is a apology. we reckon with now along with breaks look, i'm my, my thing is i always see everybody. and i mean, everybody needs a system update on what the article is, particularly the gcc that has become and there, there are many outdated, unfortunately, sometimes even by our own people who maybe have spent a long time abroad. but this is as the guidelines of our newspaper says, this is a changing region. it has changed dramatically in the last few years. with regards

to, you know, the, you know, western media and told me about a lead glass arabs. we don't realize that actually you don't need to count to west of foreign policy. look, we wouldn't do what is in our interest, i think is the message. and we would make sure that our interest doesn't harm your interest, which i think is a, is a fair game. but if anybody, i believe that if anybody is expecting a free ride, that doesn't happen anymore and breaks. if you did, that's a variety of inside your radio is going to absorb rusher and once it to join the brakes, you expect that here may be a to be part of brakes. and i mean, it's a very complicated negotiations. what i do know is there's a friends of ricks meeting happening in south africa beginning of june, where so the idea is invited. i know there is serious talks to invite the leadership to come to the summit in august. how that's materializes. i don't know, and it's too early to judge, but you know, the kingdom has signaled in recent years that it's wants to consider alliances with

all sorts of blocks in the world in a way that serves its own interest, regional interest and international interest. and there is no reason why we shouldn't talk to um, you know, the bricks group and see if we can align or interest with their so well as the american say, do you, do, you know, like china dual is american innovation, there's nothing we are, will not be the global south avenue, it's full of innovation in that kind of know how that the americans in the west, the opinions can just tell me what you thought about the astronauts. but i, i'm always saying it ironically. tell me, by the way, your thoughts with you as even though it is, i think you might have to explain it because internationally, maybe it's not known. well as you know. so the already the, it was the 1st out of country it to send an out of most of them to space. this was in 1985, it was a prince, some funding settlement. and now there's a whole program of the se based program. and we want to catch up with our uh,

brothers here in the u. e. in other signal that the whole region is, is rising. so a few days ago to us or not the 1st ever female. so the astronaut went through the international as i know by the way, yes. the and from the you a the yeah, but he was there, he was there a few months. i think that's gonna scan the americans. another thing, i don't think it should scare anybody. they are going there to do research, but it's a signal that, you know, we want to be part of and you know, this was launched from the us. we also just signed a, we need on us. yes. and we also just signed as a country $37000000000.00 of boeing planes that are on the $121.00 to supply the new airlines that we're building for a 40 on. so again, people, you know, see one part of the story, but don't see the other part of the story. if we were so anti american or want to break up with the america, why would we launch? there are other countries that we can launch a to space from, and there are other countries that can, that make equally good uh, airplanes. so i think there is this view to try to simplify things and look at it

from one perspective, but not to look at the whole story. so thank you. you have to go on an update just as far as changing the region continues. that's over the show will be back on monday would be for the goldman sachs economy, is declining the acronym break below jim o'neil to talk about the rising breaks. and it's the challenge of the g 7. but until then, you give a judge my role as social media. if it's not the sense that in your country and had to watch, i'm going on the run through the normal. don't come to watch new and old episodes of going underground see monday, the

starting 1983 session with my father on a young man. the site met all exactly the same as a kid does when he goes out in the lake and the communities cushion for parentage with iran. real nice families and allocation for a really long time. my mom was pregnant with me still long winding, and i grew up on long line session since probably 1970 was my 1st year that i seriously went into the explainable biomass is near historical levels. growth rate have dropped calling when it's done and it's worse form has of leveling effect, and it has a tendency to really just sort of strip away everything that's their, their way fisheries are changing. it's the way our country is changing. it's increasingly hard for small businesses to make it abundant. stocks are important. i mean, who wants to fish the last best? the message i would leave to you is the importance of not giving up the importance

of working together. and also the importance of taking care of your corner of the ocean of the the northern tabs we have now when you say no ma'am why why, why one being giving you the.