of the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross talk. hall things are considered. i'm peter level. as kids counter offensive grinds to a halt, nato says the west must prepare for a long war nato's goal. according to it said, sultan birth is russia's military defeat. this is a policy choice,

introduce ukraine, paying the price for such a craven decision. the cross talking nato and to crane. i'm joined by my guess, daniel mcadams, in lake jackson. he is executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity in washington. we have them are liam, he is a political scientist, author and radio talk show host. and in brunswick, we have bruce gag. now. he is the coordinator of the global network against weapons and nuclear power in space. all right, jill named cross top roles and the fact that means it can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated, daniel, let me go to you 1st and late jackson, i guess, you know, salt and berg has been speaking a lot of truth lately. after lying so much for his career, he's basically said, yeah, the are expansion of the lines, nato and ukraine prompted this military complex. that was for voting to say about 15 minutes ago. okay. and now he's saying is going to be a long war. the west must prepare for a long war. i don't get this daniel. what about achieving peace?

they all talk about war and they don't talk about peace. go ahead. a salt and break is an amazing piece of work is in the, i mean he's a string of absolute empty platitudes. punctuated equations occasionally by a couple of troops. and we've seen, as you mentioned over this past this past week, a couple of big truth. and the one you mentioned was a big one where he said, hey, this war could have been avoided. they told us if we didn't put data on their doorstep, they wouldn't have attack. ah, well, we showed them, didn't we? now they have data on their doorstep. and meanwhile, half a 1000000 people are dead. so it just shows the craziness of stilted burke who's not the head of anything. all the is a puppet of washington d. c. so they talk about war. he talks about workforce and the comfort of presidents, not understand, you're not really giving a damn about what's going on on the ground in there. and of course, as you probably continues to slowly lose the war, now they're desperate to extend it and have the long war, because the long war is meant to prevent the rest of the world from seeing who

started the war in the 1st place. you probably see now, you know, we may talk about the bandy about all of the numbers, you know, by the way, hold onto your wallets. everyone's zalinski is in washington about the cost of the war. i'd be very curious and you know, and the comments below later, what percentage of the money you think ends up back into the suburbs in washington, dc. bruce, i think it has to be a high percentage. yeah. me too. it's like afghanistan. afghanistan was a wash wash, interior for laundering money through afghanistan and back into the hands of major relates weapons, corporations, bank stairs, and the rest. and they view russia in this case as a real long term war. uh, the real goal is to take over russian resources. don't we know by now that all western wars, us, nato,

a u. k. all their wars are about resources grabbing resources and russia has too much of the, according to the united states. and so this is what it's really all about and money can be made along the way as the taxpayers of the united states and nato countries are fleeced, least least well, right let's, let's talk about the cost here because it's so easy for stilton, bergen bite, and the rest of them to sacrifice ukrainian lives. i mean, it is really quite extraordinary. you know, in preparing for this problem, i'm just talking to my editor and just say the loss of 71000 troops over the course of a few short weeks. it's extraordinary hope, callous. these people are wilmont. well, they can be incredibly callous because this is not in organic conflict. it is

a proxy conflict. so and what i mean by that is ukraine is not in control of anything. zalinski cannot negotiate. zalinski cannot sit down and talk with anybody other than stolen bergen bite and. and so the united states is in this until the last ukrainian dies. and when, when that is the mindset, then uh, you know, the united states can print and where dollars they, they, that's, that's what the united states does. so this is a money laundering sneed. it is for the benefit of lockheed martin and raytheon and boeing. and so many others in the military industrial complex. so again, because it's, if, if this were the ukraine actually finding russia then when bowers johnson, when i'm, when, when, when uh, zalinski wanted to actually sit down and negotiate back in april. but no,

they were not. they were negotiating, maybe they weren't going to say that they were negotiating to going in. and boris, jonathan came in and totally modern. those circumstances is the west going to allow you to do this. so again, it's not organic. it is, it is a proxy conflict. and unfortunately, the landscape is doing the job he's been hired to do. yeah, daniel, i mean it's, i'm glad this, this is then bull process was, is being brought up here because if you really think about it and it in, it's really tragic when you come to the conclusion that if the, the zalinski regimes accepted what was being discussed and it's then bull, he was essentially giving away when he didn't have the don bass and crime. it's that, that is going to be a historical oddity to think about it for a very long time. daniel. yeah, i mean i, i wonder how, what the final agreement would've looked like. of course, at least they were talking. but i mean, in my opinion,

a rush it was put in was in no mood to get another ministry. you know, he's already been there. he's done that he knew by then that miracle had admitted that the whole thing was a ruse. so i think zalinski is a signature on paper. would not have been enough, but at least with a door open. you would have seen a movement toward me once more starts when a war takes on a life of it's own. i as we know, but there was a chance to stop it without. but there have been 5 or 6 or 7 chances to stop it without the war. exactly, and bruce again, you know, can somebody blinking says that russia is rejecting quote, a meaningful diplomacy? well, that's not true at all. the door is open. now the terms and conditions of what the russians want are very clear, a change in the european security architecture and never hear that in the main stream. okay. he wants to rebuild the soviet union wants go to paul and there's no

evidence of that whatsoever. okay. bruce, go ahead. yeah, that's right. it's always blame russia for every thing. and that's their m o. a right now i believe that the west is trying to widen the war into the arctic region . number one. yeah, it's a poland into them, although the even armenia. so they're really working hard to widen the war in order to extend it and bleed russia as much as possible. you know, most people don't know that the week before the special military operation began in february of 2022 in the us and nato held a war game called cold response on the russian, norway, or just a few miles from the russian border in norway. and so it's very clear that when the special military operation began up, putting, understood that these people in the west were out to get russia. they were out to

the balkanized, break it up and the different small countries. so the westwood control resource extraction, especially in the arctic region, as the ice is melting. this is their pure agenda and they can't let go of it. they're rolling the dice thinking who's going to stop us. we're going to keep going, we're going to bleed our countries and all part of this global reset schwab. but anyway, this is, uh, this is where it's where it's at the more they can widen the war and the more profits. and the longer this thing, the one, yeah, like wilma, is a, it's really interesting. i like, you know, throwing the dice because they've got snake eyes. ok. the rest of the economy didn't collapse the rest and military didn't collapse. and ukraine the every single damn. but they try it blows up in their face, but not for them personally,

but for everyone else that is a target. go ahead and washington and was also very interesting and intriguing is we keep seeing president put in as a statesman. look at the russia, africa summit. look at the fact that president putin is, i believe now they're saying he's going to be yang. was shortly to meet with president g. a. there have been a number of, of world leaders that are coming to russia through bricks and in through other organizations to meet with him. to meet with secretary lab ross because russia is now economically gaining position. and the united states is losing position. and i wrote a piece a while ago called the non aligned nations realign. and this had to do with the

reality that we're seeing relationships with iran and venezuela. we've got a president material going to china. all of these world leaders are coming together, engaging in economic and trade in other types of discussions, in response to the american sanctions regime in america is militarism. and so the very guy that joe biden told us would have is economy crumble. people would be in the streets and they'd throw him out of office. he has just become an even more significant player on the world stage. yeah, but daniel, that makes the wes far more dangerous on the global stage. you know, heads your minds don't like hearing the word know daniel. the yeah, neo cons. don't like hearing the word reverse. so that's why we're in the problem. you know, the worst thing about this, peter, is that, you know, you call this the long war, and this is what stolt and bread said. it's going to be a long war. but to me, the sickest and most cynical thing about this is it washington knew all along. but

this counter offensive would not use the exact camino that's from the april released at the military intelligence in the united states. from those from those the stolen documents. they knew it would not succeed. the us would never undertake a military operation in the condition that the ukrainian army was and america's exports knew it. but what we saw in the rock, which is the only the selected intelligence with stove piped up upstairs to the president. this is what we're seeing here with this war. you have the, the secretary of state, you have the national security advisor. they are still fighting intelligence, i think, to the new, i gotta, i gotta jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break,

we'll continue our discussion on ukraine and nato state with hearts the make a fresh look around this life kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions.

fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really one say better wills, and is it just because it shows you few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusions, going underground? can the welcome act across. ok, we're all things are considered on peter. the ability to i knew we're discussing nato and you create the hey, let's go back to bruce and brunswick. i mean, i think, you know, i mean, we have all the over the, over the last couple of years, try you know, since 2014 the illegal transfer a power from a democratically elected government in ukraine to the present. what is this era? the new cold war, i think we're gonna still have to come up with a term. but if it is a new cold war, it's the west that has created it. i mean,

look at the story. so, you know, taking cars and cellphones away from russians in the you that are lawfully there. they have these is, they're not, you'd be a legal immigrants or whatnot. a freezing of bank accounts selling off of assets. i mean, what kind of western values are these, bruce, people could of western values. it's all about relocating russia to get them to take a step that would allow nato to justify expanding the war. and in the coming weeks, the us and nato, we're going to be running air, land and sea war games, even into the black see us and made a war ships plan to go into the black sea. it's all about provoking russia, showing that nato is the boss. but you know what? even in europe, the concern about this war is spreading just this past weekend. there was a massive demonstration in prague and the czech republic,

and germany as well. it's so, protests are growing throughout europe as their economies faltering because of the western sanctions that have blown back on the european economy. and people understand that they're kind of trees are being hollowed out, to pay for this profit cation against russia. that could lead to a hot war, not a cold war, but hot more because we're talking the red hot flash nuclear war. if things keep going the way they're going now. absolutely, and i mean, they, they meet with the oddity historically speaking. if we use the good, the original cold war as a, a 10 play you a great powers, the super powers never antagonize the other one directly. they're doing it now at the nuclear powers are not supposed to do that. and that's what we're, what we're seeing now. and it's very, very dangerous here. well,

me go back to you in, in washington, one of the, i, i mean, it could as all 3 of you, has there ever been an election in the western world, the ukraine war as any one voted on it ever. all through europe. north america. g, g, 20, g, v 7. excuse me. no there's. there's a huge democratic deficit when it comes to this, no one ever asked the people go ahead and washington. no one ever asks the people it is used as a talking point. it is used as a rallying cry, but it's not ever been put to a vote. and you know, you ask peter, you asked the question a little earlier about the values. well, these are the values of imperialism. these are the values of militarism. these are the values of capitalism, unbridled and empire. and you mentioned also earlier that stoughton bird has

said that the west must prepare for a long war. well, understanding that stoughton bird does not control nato, that the united states does. stolen bird was actually reading the script. so the, he's not telling the west to prepare. the west is telling the how to prepare for a very long war. and if you then also throw the, the, the, the us a contrived conflict over tie one into the mix. the united states is creating an incredibly un untenable reality. well yeah, but seem to daniel, i think one of the most interesting takeaways from this entire awful experience is that the, we see the rise of the global south. i mean, the global majority, i mean they're making it very, very clear they're, they're not going to take marching orders from washington on this. and i think that's a good thing. go ahead,

daniel. a gun it would never have happened just then neil concepts, the budget ministration had not done this. starting back from the obama administration, this was their pet project of the same people blinking and sullivan and the others . and victoria knew that this was our pet project. you know, since for the past 9 years they've been working on, it never could have happened. you never would have seen. i don't think you never would have seen iran and saudi arabia, mending fences. you never would have seen as a previous speaker discuss these sort of sinews, growing into each other in latin america and in africa, india and china. not at each other's throats. it's amazing every thing that they have the reverse midas touch, right? everything the neo cons, touched towards the crap, yet they never get punished for doing it. they just keep on and keep getting promoted and keep going up. or, i mean, i just wonder if there's some point. you talked about propaganda. i mean, you have to prepare the american people, the big monster put in was a big monster. we have to defeat another hitler. and once you do that you get this

kind of consent to spend manufacture that is chomsky you would say and you can you go ahead so there hasn't been a vote. what there's been is massive propaganda. and then america wakes up with a hangover. oh my god, $10000000000.00 is gone, and i can't buy a low for bread. thanks a lot. and that's what you're seeing. the numbers go south in america with 3 or 4 republicans saying i don't want to spend another penny in ukraine, but they got what they wanted it for us. and they use propaganda to do it. you know, a process what you talk, speaking about propaganda and something i've noticed that particularly when it comes to ukraine, when they're there, thing said that you can't take back. okay. when you call someone hitler, you can't sit down in the table and talk with them. see this is, this is a self defeating process right here. and that's what makes it so scary is that maybe there's not gonna be a, i mean, from watching his point of view negotiations mean you surrender, okay. but the russians will never do that. and that's why i think we live in

extremely dangerous time, bruce and i want to go into space for a moment. you know, the united states has been stealing up lower earth orbit l e o. with star link satellites launched by 8 the log mosques company. the satellites have been used by the pentagon to give military communications and targeting of russian soldiers and civilians targets. and in the dawn, gas were right now. what's happening is these orbits are becoming totally congested and filled with western military satellites. and russia and china are being excluded from using lower earth orbit. as this parking lot becomes overly crowded, china is now saying they want to launch 13000 satellites in the lower earth orbit. but the us again is rushing to feel that the available spaces space is now

directly involved in war fighting. and it, as we talk about expanding the war and whitening the war, i'd really fear that the united states is going to move this war in the space. and if that happens with this growing congestion in moore or it's orbit, nasa scientists fear the kessler syndrome won't kick into effect. this means cascading collisions that before long, essentially destroys much of what is orbiting the or then when that happens g p s cell phones, air traffic control, whether prediction, internet banking, the whole works, those dark, those black on the arrows below. so we're in this really dangerous moment right now in the west is pushing it, pushing it, not wanting to talk and not wanting to negotiate. not wanting to back off the neo cons,

it's been referred to several times now. they are running the show. biden is not the president, he's just a hop in. that is doing a poor job in is in his role. but this is the dangerous moment we're in today. you know, daniel, you know, i'm gonna ask a god kind of a provocative question, but i think it's, we have to in talk about it. do you see article 5 being invoked at some point in time? because i'm glad that bruce brought up the satellite things when satellites are. well, american intelligence is being used to have missiles, target civilians in russia. there's a certain point where the items are good and say, well, we can tolerate the satellites, then the, i don't know of article 5 applies. that's kind of new ones. but i fear that is where we're trading on that ground. daniel, you know it's going, it's getting very close and when we saw the attacks and crimea against this, the class and the landing ship just last week, i think it was uh, that was all facilitated by global hawk. that was right outside the territory at

what point is the escalation, i mean, the calculus of the neo cons in dc is that because pollutant has not responded, he won't respond. mean, would you want to gamble the nice it was ation on such and such an insane thing? so i had said a couple of times in our program as well, that maybe the escalation to sort of a symmetrical ex escalation would be to take out a global hawk. oh, you're not killing a pilot, you're not killing any one, but you're making a very clear. we will not tolerate you targeting our ships in crime here with these global hawks over the black sea. that may be the next move that they make. the question is what we'll need to do at that point. yeah, a little more. yeah. the one of the things that really bothers me is that, you know, they're, they're, they're setting a precedent for invoking article 5. and these are lead to doing it. you know, i mean, if it were ever done, i don't know what the reaction would be. certainly the united states doesn't want

missiles flying over america. but when they object to him having missiles flying over europe, i wonder what to do. they, they won't mind having the missiles flying over europe, or they already blew up north stream to pipeline. good point. so that, so they don't mind blowing stuff up in, in, in europe. and i think it's, you know, you mentioned the article 5 a couple of times. and the only thing that i think we can hold with article 5 is that of the other members of nato. because no one of the things the article 5 says is that other natal members will respond as they see fit. right? so what, what one hopes with an article 5 response is that a germany would send water and france would send back yet. and in britain would send banners. so that's what we hold. yeah, yeah. but no, do you think that as a result of that i tend to agree with you with

a way to have for us we would have forest regime change in paris for squeezing change in rome, etc, etc. i don't think the go ahead finish up the last few seconds. go ahead. this is the optimist in the yes said and just quickly you, you mentioned that what is important member rush, you can't trust the united states. the minsk agreements were fraud by the ignored russians, demands in geneva, and look at what the united states did with the jcp away. and just as we send around their money, we impose more say, as i've said, as always, i've said from the get go gentleman, there's going to be negotiating. there's going to be no negotiated. and the russians will end this all by themselves. ok, and we'll talk about what that world will look like at another time. that's all the time we have gentlemen. want to make my guess in washington, brunswick and, and like jackson it. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our

d. c. a next time. remember process the we are in august on one of the most ethnically and culturally diverse regions on the entire planet. as you make your way through, does this dawn you will discover, each region is known for its own unique arts and traditions. the lease of the russian states never as one of the most sense community best. most all sun set up the same assistance,

the case of 95 must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will bend in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on russia today and split the r t spoke neck, keeping our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services for the question, did you say steven twist, which is the, the shift or specialist if somebody else's came over the previous look like something like that though. but just because of color change, because i haven't used the oh, that's across it up from low, but it seems to me the flight just to get the hands on. you're paying the

additional benefit of the once you get the order move, are you gonna push the department for the delay? yeah, they've got to get my teeth or something flushed. they say they're still moving the ship if i get them to send them over, just put you more in my research for you said there's 2 different ways going to place the most of the interest with sharon for you to to, to, to just allow us to be able to stay for the next night and which is due to the over here and you crushed

them. newton kit, who is the beautiful patch to live in china and $14.00 a pot of cannibal customer dissolving those options to restore the question. just especially on an inquiry into financial talks interest, i'm show corner g about those just 7. and i'm wondering where the question is. it's just towards them just to denver stuff, repeating modem issues,