reset, so we send visions from a new input to hope all other countries on to a producer, unexplored several weapons. gracie went on to say that their bonds, military doctrine is based on deterrence that will ensure regional security. he said extra territorial force, as one only destabilize the region by extra regional players. he was obviously referring to the u. s. which has recently deployed its naval forces in the persian gulf. and ward washington justifies as a means to protect shipping ways for the strategic straight, a form of the presence of our forces in the persian gulf guarantee security. on the other hand, the people of this region are concerned about the presence of 4 in forces. the presence of 4 and military uses the biggest problem of all region. since this establishment some for decades ago, these moments republic has suffered the harshest, obviously bar go a post by the west, 80 or a one of our core. and the 1980s was 500. those restrictions which to 90 want

access to even barbed wire from outside it's borders. this has been a rock, you will notice that them will say and enjoyed immense military and financial support from his western allies. these moments republic says it has looked at the western measures as a blessing in disguise, which prompted the country to stand on its own feet domestically produce over 80 percent of its different in sector. on the 25th being the only one working to be left in october and would say the restrictions on what they call it, a supervisor or something has to be able to be rejected. they wanted to keep the balance in place. they salt in vain that they could stop us by imposing sanctions on us with our

armed forces have soon the sanctions and threats and to avoid tendencies, so that today these long equip public affairs wrong produces, unveils miss ios, like the foot tall and drones like the more i, jared tends to explore it far than it's ever civilized country. usually use a saucer. patients to receive the usability or how many, thanks for your company, a on all to international next to pay to the bell has the latest episode across so often that we will news in 30 minutes a the

the hello and welcome to the cross talk. we're all taken to consider 9 peter level western relates in their play and media of media cleared the ukraine proxy. war is all about weakening and eventually destroying russians, military capacities. this is why there is no good faith appeals about a negotiate in 10 to the conflict. they have chosen another forever war, the processing nato's choice. i'm joined by my guess, matthew areas in milan for y'all. he is a senior fellow at the american university of moscow as well as director of the rising town foundation of canada. in france we have penny, lawrence lakes. he is a jew, a political analyst, as well as author of the upcoming book, ukraine,

the spy entrepreneur. and here in moscow we cross who i read. he is a managing editor at the grace zone. alright. crosstalk roles in effect, gentlemen. and i always appreciate you jumping and matthew, let me go to you 1st here with you. a lot of the news coming out right now and it covers a wide array of things. first of all, we have a natal general sanctuary. spelt number warning, everyone. this is going to be a long war, so nato's decided it wants to be in a long war. it is foreclose negotiations just and then ass lose. last new cycle. we have bloomberg, we parting headlines us and g 7. allies expect the complex and ukraine to drag on for years. so met, this is a choice, this is a choice on their part, isn't it? yes it, none of this needs to happen. this could have this could be resolved as, as lab rock themselves, they've made a point in his remarks. this could be resolved in a split 2nd. even donald trump is made a point how easy this would be to simply resolve by re restoring it,

changing the attic that is always kate, but for it, seeing that there would be no negotiations possible or even legal with put in um and it seems as though even though there are nice flowery words saying we want to speedy into this regardless of the amount of manpower, the human life that it's b as that's being destroyed. you have these unseen remarks buys by salt birds saying this will go on for another decade. so it does seem to be that they don't want it to end, that they are conscious efforts to continuously poor diesel on the people on the, on the, on the fires right now in the there's no, i didn't cite as long as this ideology continues to dominate the trans atlantic. okay, what. ringback why it, you know, a year from the united states, we have teddy, he's in france, we have matthew, he's in canada. so all of you guys have been participating in some kind of election about continuing the war and ukraine. right. i mean, where's the people's choice here? we have the choice, this isn't a lead conflict that has been from day one in

a lee complex, but nobody among the populace, the citizenry votes on these things. why? why it as well that's, that's right. and you know, as you, we haven't had some kind of election about this early on in the past year or so, year and a half. i think there is a significant chance that the endless weapons to the wednesday might have prevailed . but for the 1st time, now we have poles coming out from cnn and others that show a majority of americans are opposed to this endless supply of military hardware to the most corrupt regime in europe. this is not something that is popular and amongst either side it's, it's beginning to seem we have, i saw just earlier this week, a report came out from national public radio hardly. right. part news, hardly tucker carlson. they said biden's plan to send more aid to ukraine is criticized by voters in wisconsin. and they spoke about liberal and conservative

voters drying opposing this plan. that binding has hooked up to send another $24000000000.00 to ukraine. so i think we're starting to see a significant shift in the united states, which makes it increasingly untenable for elected officials to just pour fuel on the fire as my, as the previous guess, put it on teddy. we also have in the news a remarkably, it's interesting how poland is kind of reversed. it's of no more are was, were ukraine. i mean, you know, 15 seconds ago they were the biggest supporters of this conflict here. now it's beginning to a road domestic politics in europe. it doesn't bode well for uh, there's a lensky regime in all of his back or is go ahead. teddy. well, i was told what comes to me the end of june. it was the invited to the academy of friends here in indiana, and i attempted to meet him with the,

the best of books, rasa. and so what i have been hearing sounds is jenson. and is that a rush? i would be losing 2 more. there would be enough to fly get into europe, then flags flying over campus in the boat, 6 moans. are you who are those? so the number 2 of the central bank saying that's the last time economy was complete. the collapsing that they really seen was a disaster and so on an airplane times they have been giving me a call to the teen fact to talk about my own experience. so basically is this case, they want to go to war to the end festival. they need to tweak the because what do you have been observing for the moment? is that what we are, the lack of the supply in, in know to the, in the price as being claim, being, skyrocketing,

to avoid that nobody can afford the insight to drive the car in your to and just see on index as being corrupting completely. if we're looking up to the germany index duties at sport to the one in the studio, is that $1339.00 in front support to 6. and i see in front of the assembly overall shop at 56. so what does it mean? you mean step one and i saw as the 3rd strongest resolution today in the world and everybody's collapsing and you all in the session move. we were and so or the city, let me, let me jump in. here we go because your, your frame is shaking a little bit here. let me go to matthew right now. but matthew, i mean, and gaming and all of the statements that we've been coming out of western capital

is, you know, as long as it takes all the time here. that also tells us that they're not interested in peace. se ukraine seems to be relevant to this entire conversation. if they wanted peace, they could easily get it. i don't know about trump's 24 hour plan, but along the lines of what you stop funding this ridiculous war, and it will come to an end, matthew? yeah it's, it's not, it's not a great magical secret how this would work. um, i think that's part of this is that the, those were planning. this thing are really stuck on the and, and still drunk on the success of being your brzezinski use great victory by a, by, you know, sucking the soviet back into their, their unwinnable quagmire in enough gas in back in the eighty's. and there's just this strange effort to just replicate this, this template in our modern era, despite the fact that the world has changed very much since 19 eighties and 79,

when the us really was the domain superpower, economically, and on other other points. today the world is completely different. we have the rush of trying to iran aligns, but that's one over many of the countries of the world to a new, a new set of rules of the game and, and the formulas of the past don't work anymore. but there's just as unwillingness to recognize this reality and a bit like math. oh, don't think does he think that's what makes the, the west particularly the united states really, really dangerous. let me go to wyatt. i'm not here because this is a paradigm shift. we're seeing how the global south is reacting to all of this. but we need these people in washington. they are so id logically driven theirs. but what they want to do is they want to defeat russia. lloyd austin said that in the very, very beginning. okay. and what it is doing is it is eroding their own power back home. why it to? absolutely, they hopes to degrade russia militarily,

to the point where it could not do such things. again, i believe was lloyd austin's exact phrasing. they wanted to turn the rouble into, or the russian rouble into rubble. and what did they get instead? well now they have nato being demilitarized by for sending all of its excess arguments to be destroyed by the russian military. and they've also shot themselves in the foot economically and force this transition, the rest of the world to uh, to the new sort of bricks lead order that is, uh, according to most of the countries joining it. unable them to have real self determination in a way where they're not having to be forced to take loans by these international loan sharks like b, i a math and the world bank that to dictate economic terms, that forced privatization onto people who don't want them. so, you know, in that sense, this has been a massive self inflicted injury. good teddy, me, there's a new, there was a phrase at the end of the 19th or early 20th century,

it was called the sick man of europe. but of course, that was the ottoman empire, but now we see the term resurrected and its being applied to germany for good reason. go ahead, teddy. well, i have been putting the hands on the documents that was emitted by the other end. in the this is joyce from sleeping that has been giving me these, these looking and it was describing the way that americans deal deal with the strolling complexity. the german economy. you know, the daily. so you'd see for that as being put it together between germany, russia and china to be the best and go to use that you these, but bona to shift merchandise from china to your was activity essential to what is going on. and as it was shuttling in fact, the capacity capacity of the u. s. d. us have been destroying inside the,

the pipeline which makes the economy of germany companies eclipsing. and then these documents, it was stipulating, clearly that's in fact the americans wanted to shift all the email g consuming industry, grows by usa in fact to get the assets built for very cheap. but besides the social consequences that all i'm really sorry is because even the jobs off shift because the company are moving away. that means that politically speaking, this is going to be a very serious problem for souls. and actually when sources heading, we'd be meeting the board meeting. so i have in europe every body's bowing demon springs. well, teddy and teddy as i saw on twitter a very interesting picture. when the chancellor, i call them sergeant schultz, was addressing the united nations general assembly. nobody was there listening.

nobody wants to hear what the germans, chancellors has to say. and you know what? maybe they still have the pipeline. people would be willing to listen, but they don't have the pipeline. it's gone hard gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we get to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato's choice. stay with our to the public sentence. and i'm going to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. my little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. what could i please or do the have the state department, c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your facts for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't marshall state main street because i'm probably

going to make you comfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way the the welcome act across black were all things are considered on peter

labelle dramatically. we're discussing nato's choice, the . okay, let's go back to matthew in montreal. okay, we've heard all the speeches from zelinski and from all of his backers, particularly joe biden. this is all about democracy in territorial integrity and all and the children, of course, they always mentioned the children at the end of the sentence here. but what's, what's really going on. the reason why i want to set this down is because it's a huge money laundering operation, just like afghanistan was. that's why there's so much hesitation and what's, what is really a working in the, the, the advantage of the us and its allies, is that they have a willing participant. you know what, what we have here is that ukraine is not a victim, it's a volunteer, it's volunteering for this and it's leadership. and that's what makes it so morally

repugnant. okay. because they're in on the money laundering, matthew. yeah, everyone's morally compromised or playing this thing, even the pandora papers back in or the animal paper back in the date as a demonstrated zalinski was the eyeballs deep in, in all sorts of shady business with, with offshore bank accounts in the cayman islands. in virgin island, uh with, with tens of millions of not more dollars associated with him directly and his wife . but also, i'll all of the, the, the leading oligarchs of ukraine as well as the body frame family. and you've been, you have the stories of san britain, brinkman freed, and that money laundering operation to feedback cash from the tax payer straight to the democratic party. these are the operations and going to ukraine. it's like everywhere you look, it's just your corruption. and then you have the black rock, you know, a world economic form model going into full affecting ukraine on every level. if this is really just the most dentist form of corruption. i think in the world on an official status,

at least least of the part that people could see openly. and yet despite that they're, they're still going forward calling this thing a, a model of democracy when they canceled their elections. you know, so let's use is a m. oh yeah, but a lot about matthew. do we have to remember that zelinski said you if you give me 5000000000 more uh we might talk about it. no, i mean we did sell raising at this point here. let me, let me go to wyatt. you know, the iron e of it all the hood, you know, the, the, they want to ukraine wants to be, we made in the image of the west. but what's happening is that the west is becoming like ukraine. yes, absolutely. and it's increasingly unpopular when we talk about this decision by the poland prep polish president, andre due to to no longer ship analyst supply weapons to ukraine. that's being presented obviously, is kind of a symptom of this grain dispute between ukraine and poland. but what's left on said is whole and has elections coming up. we have the incredible public support for

poll polish or i should say ukrainian refugees that has slipped from the low nineties now to the 60 percent. and it's not just poland, it's slovakia, it's austria, all these countries where electrons are coming up. there is an increasing sense that if we continue forking over all of our assets to these ukranian refugees, many of whom do not even seem particularly grateful for it. if we keep it's 14 over all of our assets to the ukranian military for it to just disappear down somebody's pocket, and then we're going to eventually pay the price, select poorly. well, let's talk about politics, petty. we have already mentioned, you know, poland and other eastern european countries and we do have elections coming up and a number of them. poland, austria, slovakia. do you think that's going to the ukraine? complet goes good in. busy once the elections there, because we all know that europe is terrified of populist go ahead, daddy as well. i wouldn't say that this is the conflict itself that is going to trigger some the major influence on the election. that's more of the consequences

of the coffee look at what defense we funds to in africa the teen as being the head thing, the country in fact, to the descendants of the 2nd countries, in fact, to defend himself from france. and now we have the book, you know, 1st of all, we have the money, we have the 9 general that that's been breaking a box completely. i will relationship. and this is going to be a major, how the economy, because we are not going to get the gas. and before the, at the price, we used to get it either of the item in the population in front of stock to stuff there is thursday, about the consequences. the 1st product that has been increasing by 27 percent. we have the disorder in the that's been increasing by 60 percent. people cannot

afford the impact to the property or right now we have 30 percent of the population that age keeping middle every day. so therefore, that mean that's at the end of story somebody we'd have to be described go to for the story and method, all these, we're responsible for what this company you know, well the, it as well. you know what's really interesting, again, who is going to be held responsible? well, i think we're going to be held responsible. okay. we approach showing the uncomfortable truths about this. we've been doing it from the very, very beginning. and, and, and matthew, we're all lucky, right now is in west western media it's, it's okay now to talk about corruption, the new, great, remember before the complex, it was a corrupt country and then only 15 minutes ago we could talk about it again, matthew as well words are, are very, we take them for granted what the, the, the, the power of, of telling the truth. and i mean, we see them on one side where it's kind of like the, the, the trial the story finds christian anderson with the child who was the 1st one due

to have the courage and the innocence in a sense, to just say the truth that the emperor has no clothes in it, and then you couldn't put the genie back in the bottle and i think you use, you are sort of seeing some inklings of that where we see the breakdown of polling just simply saying, you know, openly and loudly that the ukraine is like a drowning man, the more you give, the more they're going to taking. they're still going to take you down with them. you've got some serious, some actual resistance. it seems inside of the us congress as well. uh towards this and you know, there's, there's an open demand to actually see where the money is going. why are we having no account ability, no oversight. but at the same time there's, i think, a raise over controlling the narrative. and we, we heard just into our den, who's now all of a sudden, somehow this major chief at harvard in charge of a basically planning of the censorship for the new internet. seeing the words are warfare and how for every weapon of misinformation run by pro russian voices. we have new weapons to counteract that, that we're, we're gonna bring online, but we can't say what they are yet, but they're going to be an important weapons. and you can only imagine the

desperation to get control of this new reform the eventually, when you've, you've already given a discursive example of and when they go to a wide here being pro russian. no, i'm pro peace, okay, i'm pro peace. okay? and this is this, there are, well, we and trick that they always play all the time. i want this war to come to an end . now it never, it should have started in the 1st place, okay. and be not being able to say peace, you know that, that, that it is really do ukraine and all of its people go head. why it as well as you pointed out correctly. now we are allowed to discuss the corruption. thankfully the very strange spokes person, english speaking spokes person to the ukrainian territorial defense forces was forced, was fired. but over the past week or so, it seems that we were all being threatened with death for potentially being labeled, quote unquote, russian propagandist, all fitting in with this new trend of basically openly threatening terrorism as the

lensky himself told the economist recently that it would not be a quote, good story for europe if we know if the, if the west, the clients to continue sending endless weaponry to ukraine, essentially threatening terrorist attacks. so you know, now i feel a little bit safer. obviously. no, you're right. we're not rushing propagandists. we are propagandists for peace to we're going to be called anything kind of propagandist. i would say i had the same exact opinion all along. i want this to end yesterday. but unfortunately, there seems to be this segment of our ruling class in the west that is totally committed to and keeping this thing going and, and really, that's kind of. so lensky is main demographic at this point. if you will have paid attention to the news these past few days, that was kind of one of the major meetings that flew under the radar was the wednesday meeting with a host of c, e o. as in may and his power players at

a meeting organized at jp morgan. and he was came shortly after a meeting with the ceo of black rock, which is really going to be the main beneficiary in terms of the grant. whatever remains of the ukrainian run state coming out of all this via the why they hear you . he wants to privatize the, the looting it's, it's extraordinary. okay. and you're right. it was a meeting that really went under the radar. but it was really significant if they did, can pump in out of the, the tax payers go private. okay. and then they can, just as uh, you know, take all the flesh off the bones of what's ever left here. any you live in france, what is public opinion? is public opinion changing against that? against him? a crown against nato. you've already mentioned the events going on in north africa . is there a shifting mood? go ahead petty. i have to say something. i do believe that. now the public opinion stuff to be 3, me angry, emailing all of the condition in which people have to leave. and we

have of the left lucky. that's all raising the open use the public opinion and check to retain yates against the government. okay. uh, you know, when i was coming back from your brain in february 2015 after the s b, what was being the testing me? i have been sending the, you come on to the main store, most of the leaders in friends like, you know, what i mean, you all actually to me by any who has been work on you were coming me to the and that's who noticed somebody. and i have been telling them that they will not taking tier off their shift to extreme reason that was happening in your brain. this country would be a major problem in the next 5 to 10 years. and this is what's happening at city. it was same then it would be very, very easy. in fact, to stop the conflict. but that's mean the other thing in 2015 the most or to make

sure that the supplements will be happening in the best condition for everybody. i told them to go to do you have them each want to be the your opinion, your you stopped, the 2 must have inside the paper and them thus all, you would not get any dollar. i couldn't get into that, but a single or is it agency, would it be rolling onto the ground? yeah, but basically the, i'm sorry, tell you it's not about the e u membership. it's not a, even about nato expansion. it's about taking russia off the geo political stage. that's what it's all about. okay, matthew. 15 seconds before we go to end the program, go ahead. agreed. yes, and no this, this really has nothing to do with ukraine. they're completely disposed. ready this has everything to do with who is going to be in a dominant position to shape the conditions of the emerging operating system that will replace the collapsing world water that is being that is having to plug pulled

from it. and that's where the races that, whether it's gonna be multi polar based upon open system cooperation or restoration of the check. no feudalism and ag population agenda will remains to be seen. all right, with the everybody, what matthew just said, they're take, pull out of posted, write it down and put it in your wallet. beautiful summation for the program here. it's all the time. we have a gentleman. i want to thank my guest and friends, montreal, and here in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember across samples the the, [000:00:00;00]

the of the, at least one russian soldiers missing. also ukraine launch is a swipe on the block fi fleet headquarters and the crime in city of set a store who would find a cranium cruise missed off some down over the region according to russian official flashes of rock. so the street so beyond median capital and a full staff protest said the situation in a go, no car about locals in years on accusing 5 minutes of passion, yada pretty said, i mean the safety concerns for ethnic armenians and the, the johnny region. i know many people there who want to leave and cannot implement that, right. they are staying there at the cost of their own,