the, the, the release of russian states never as tight as one of the most sense community best. most all sense and the in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on process coding and supports the r t spoke neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube. the question, did you say even closer to the

hello and welcome to cross talk? we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, western deletes and they're playing media of media cleared. the green proxy war is all about weakening and eventually destroying russia's military capacities. this is why there is no good faith appeals about in negotiating and to the conflict. they have chosen another forever war, the processing nato's choice. i'm joined by my guess, matthew and or it's in milan for y'all. he's

a senior fellow at the american university of moscow as well as the director of the rising town foundation of canada. in france, we have teddy lorenz lake. he is a geo political analyst as well as author of the upcoming book ukraine, the spy entrepreneur. and here in moscow we cross who i read. he is a managing editor at the grace zone. alright, cross lock rolls and effect. gentleman and i always appreciate you jumping in matthew, let me go to you 1st here with a lot of the news coming out right now and it covers a wide array of things. first of all, we have a nato, a general take, very seldom or warning. everyone, this is going to be a long war. so nato has decided it wants to be in a long war. it is foreclose negotiations just and the last lose last new cycle. we have bloomberg reporting headlines, u. s. and g 7. allies expect the complet, the new crane to drag on for years, so met, this is a choice, this is a choice on their part, isn't it? yes, it, none of this needs to happen. this could have this could be resolved as,

as lab rock themselves, they made a point in his remarks. this could be resolved in a split 2nd. even donald trump is made a point how easy this would be to simply resolve by re restoring it, changing the attic then. so let's keep but for it's saying that there would be no negotiations possible or even legal with put in um, and it seems as though even though there are nice flowery words saying we want to speedy into this regardless of the amount of manpower the human life that it's b as that's being destroyed. you have these unseen remarks buys by soleberg, saying this will go on for another decade. so it does seem to be that they don't want it to end, that they are conscious efforts to continuously poor diesel on the people on the, on the, on the fires right now in the there's no, i didn't cite as long as this ideology continues to dominate the trans atlantic. okay, well, why it, you know, a year from the united states, we have teddy, he's in france, we have matthew, he's in canada. so all of you guys have been participating in some kind of election

about continuing the war and ukraine. right. i mean, where's the people's choice? here we have the choice. this isn't a lead conflict that has been from day one in a lee complex, but nobody among the populace, the citizenry votes on these things. why? why it well, that's, that's right. and you know, if you, we haven't had some kind of election about this early on in the past year or so, year and a half. i think there is a, a significant chance that and the list weapons to the whence he might have prevailed. but for the 1st time now we have goals coming out from cnn. others that show a majority of americans are opposed to this endless supply of military hardware to the most corrupt regime in europe. this is not something that is popular and amongst either side it's, it's beginning to seem we have, i saw just earlier this week, a report came out from national public radio hardly. right. part news,

hardly tucker carlson. they said biden's plan to send more aid to ukraine is criticized by voters in wisconsin. and they spoke about liberal and conservative voters drying opposing this plan. that binding has hooked up to send another $24000000000.00 to ukraine. so i think we're starting to see a significant shift in the united states, which makes it increasingly untenable for elected officials to just pour fuel on the fire as my, as the previous guest put it on teddy. we also have in the news a remarkably, it's interesting how poland is kind of reversed itself. no more. our was where ukraine, i mean, you know, 15 seconds ago they were the biggest supporters of this conflict here. now it's beginning to a road domestic politics in europe. it doesn't bode well for uh, there's a lensky regime in all of his back or is go ahead. teddy as well. uh, i was told, uh when comes to me uh,

end of june. uh it was uh invited to the academy. oh sorry enough hear indiana. and i attempted to meet him with the the best of books to rasa. and so what i have been hearing sounds is jenson. and is that a rush? i would be losing 2 more. there would be another flag and the europe in flag flying over campus in about 6 months. all right, hold on. so the number 2 of the central bank saying that's the last time economy was complete, the collapsing that they really seen was a disaster. and so on an airplane times they have been giving me a call to the teen fact to talk about my own experience. so basically is this case, they want to go to war to the end festival. they need to tweak the because

what do you have been observing for the moment? is that what we have a lack of supply in, in no t the in the price has been calling, being skyrocketing to a point that nobody can afford insight to drive the car in your the and just see on index as being corrupts. incomplete t if we are looking up to the germany index duties at sport to the one industry i use at 1339 in from 4 to 6. and i see in front of the assembly overall shop at 56. so what does it mean? you mean step one and i saw as the 3rd strongest products shown today in the world. and everybody's caught up seeing you all in the session mode. we were, you know, so or the city. let me,

let me jump in. here we go because your, your frame is shaking a little bit here. let me go to matthew right now. but matthew, i mean, and giving the, all of the statements that we've been coming out of western capital is, you know, as long as it takes all the time here. that also tells us that they're not interested in peace. se ukraine seems to be relevant to this entire conversation. if they wanted peace, they could easily get it. i don't know about trump's 24 hour plan, but along the lines of what you stop funding this ridiculous war, and it will come to an end, matthew? yeah it's, it's not, it's not a great magical secret how this would work. um, i think that's part of this is that the, those were planning. this thing are really stuck on the and, and still drunk on the success of the beginning. and brzezinski use great victory by uh, by, you know, sucking the soviets back into their, their unwinnable quagmire in enough gas in back in the eighty's. and there's just

this strange effort to just replicate this, this template in our modern era, despite the fact that the world has changed very much since 19 eighties and 79, when the us really was the domain superpower, economically, and on other other points. today the world is completely different. we have the rusher trying to iran aligns, but that's one over many of the countries of the world to a new, a new set of rules of the game and, and the formulas of the past don't work anymore. but there's just as unwillingness to recognize this reality and a basic math. oh, don't think, does he think that's what makes the, the west particularly the united states really, really dangerous. let me go to wyatt. i'm not here because this is a paradigm shift. we're seeing how the global south is reacting to all of this. but we need these people in washington. they are so id logically driven theirs. but what they want to do is they want to defeat russia. lloyd austin said that in the

very, very beginning. okay. and what it is doing is it is eroding their own power back home. why it absolutely they hopes to degrade russia militarily, to the point where it could not do such things. again, i believe was lloyd austin's exact phrasing. they wanted to turn the rouble into, or the russian rouble into rubble. and what did they get instead? well now they have nato being demilitarized by for sending all of its excess arguments to be destroyed by the russian military. and they've also shot themselves in the foot economically and force this transition, the rest of the world to uh, to the new sort of bricks lead order that is, uh, according to most of the countries joining it, unable them to have real self determination in the way where they're not having to be forced to take loans by these international loan sharks like the i am math and the world bank that doesn't dictate economic terms, that force privatization onto people who don't want them. so, you know,

in that sense, this has been a massive self inflicted injury. teddy me, there's a new, there was a phrase at the end of the 19th, the early 20th century was called the sick man of europe. but of course, that was the ottoman empire. but now we see the term resurrected and its being applied to germany for good reason. go ahead, teddy. well, i have been putting the hands on the documents that was emitted by the other end in the this is joyce from sleeping that has been giving me these, these documents. it was describing the way that americans deal deal with the strolling complexity. the german economy. you know, the daily, so you'll see for that as being put it together between germany, russia and china to be debates and go to use that you these, but bona to shift merchandise from china to your was absolutely essential to what

is going on. and as it was shuttling in fact, the capacity is going to be good capacity of the u. s. the us, of being destroying inside the, the pipeline which makes the economy of germany companies equaled up seeing any of these documents. it was stipulating, clearly that seems like the americans wanted to shift all the emails consuming. the industry grows by usa in fact to get the assets built for very cheap. but besides the social consequences that all i'm really sorry is because even the jobs off shift because the company are moving away. that means that particularly speaking, this is going to be a very serious problem for souls. and that's what are you mentors? he's a heading, we'd be meeting the 40 to go to meeting start time in europe. if anybody's going be immune springs. well, teddy and teddy as i saw on twitter

a very interesting picture. when the chancellor, i called them sergeant schultz, was addressing the united nations general assembly. nobody was there listening. nobody wants to hear what the german chancellor is, has to say. and you know what, maybe they still have the pipeline people would be willing to listen, but they don't have the pipeline. it's gone hard gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we get to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato's choice. stay with our team, the a hi, i'm acceptance and i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. whitelisted opinions that

he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please. i do have the state department to see i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, it's not. we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you the phone from dish that i mean is how could i escape again that's true to myself. to not get bored. i see someone you off because of them during the 1st of all you do, i do this. it is through the most of the way of giving this new do they

have uh business to speaking on the job yesterday. the 1st one being unemployed. so i see me in nevada because i'm just using the she left for the so they brought in to the colleges and design. if i say a set of keys, i'm just going to take the process is when they just go to depaula system, i'm put you to on. yeah, there's on your part from shay. the funded pretty said unit. is the briefcase. now the process for this night they push out people to they live a floating and useful previously as i was, you know, participate sort of of the 4 digit else of my phone. i'm not going to, but it's not the real solution. there's, i have to go a little bit, it is a little boy who was put on the slow before and the professionals will work on your, your cell phones of all of these. and you have that because that gives you really the

welcome back. across the dock. were all things are considered. i'm peter la bell dramatically. we're discussing nato's choice, the okay, let's go back to matthew in montreal. okay, we've heard all this features from zelinski and from all of his backers, particularly joe biden. this was all about democracy in territorial integrity and all and the children, of course, they always mentioned the children at the end of the sentence here. but what's, what's really going on, the reason why i want to set this down is because it's a huge money laundering operation just like afghanistan was. that's why there's so much hesitation and what's, what is really working in the, the, the advantage of the us and its allies, is that they have a willing participant. you know what, what we have here is that ukraine is not

a victim, it's a volunteer, it's volunteering for this and it's leadership. and that's what makes it so morally repugnant. okay. because they're in on the money laundering, matthew. yeah, everyone's morally compromised or playing this thing, even the pandora papers back in are the animal papers back in the date as a demonstrated zalinski was the eyeballs deepen in all sorts of shady business with, with offshore bank accounts in the cayman islands, in virgin island. uh, with, with tens of millions of not more dollars associated with him directly and his wife . but also, i'll all of the, the, the leading oligarchs of ukraine as well as the body frame family. and you've been, you have the stories of san britain, brinkman freed, and that money laundering operation to feedback cash and the tax payer straight to the democratic party. these are the operations and going to ukraine. it's like everywhere you look, it's just your corruption. and then you have the black rock, you know, world economic form model going into full affecting ukraine on every level. if this

is really just the most densest form of corruption, i think in the world on an official status at least least of the part that people could see openly. and yet, despite that they're, they're still going forward calling this thing a, a model of democracy when they canceled their elections. it was a, let's use is a m, oh yeah, but a lot about matthew david. we have to remember that zalinski said you, if you give me 5000000000 more uh, we might talk about it. no, i mean with that so brazen at this point here. let me, let me go to wyatt. you know, the iron e of it all. the hood, you know, the, the, they want ukraine wants to be, we made in the image of the west. but what's happening is that the west is becoming like, ukraine. i am so lutely and it's increasingly unpopular when we talk about this decision by the poland prep polish president, andre due to to no longer ship analyst supply weapons to ukraine. that's being presented obviously, is kind of a symptom of this grain dispute between ukraine and poland. but what's left on sat

is whole and has elections coming up. we have the incredible public support for a poll polish or i should say ukrainian refugees that has slipped from the low nineties now to the 60 percent. and it's not just poland, it's slovakia, it's austria. all these countries where elections are coming up. there is an increasing sense that if we continue forking over all of our assets to these ukranian refugees, many of whom do not even seem particularly grateful for it. if we keep, it's for thing over all of our assets, to the ukranian military for it to just disappear down somebody's pocket, and then we're going to eventually pay the price, select poorly. well, let's talk about politics, petty. we have already mentioned, you know, poland and other eastern european countries and we do have elections coming up in a number of them a poland, austria, slovakia. do you think that's good? the ukraine complex is good influenced the elections there because we all know that europe is terrified of populist. go ahead,

daddy as well. i wouldn't say that this is the conflict itself that is going to trigger some the major influence on the election. that's more of the consequences of the coffee. look at what defense we front in africa, the patina as being the head, being the country, in fact, to the descendants, the 2nd countries infected, defend himself from france. and now we have the book, you know, 1st of all, we have the money, we have the 9 job. that doesn't mean breaking a box completely. i will relationship. and this is going to be a major, how those are all like what i mean, because we're, i'm not going to get the gas and before the price we used to get it either be us them and the population in front of stopped to stuff. there is thursday about the consequences. yeah. first product that has been increasing by 27 percent. we have

the screen that's been increasing by 60 percent. people cannot afford the impact to the property or right now we have 30 percent of the population that age keeping middle every day. so therefore, that mean that's at the end of the story, somebody we got to be described go to for the story. and mcgraw is we are responsible for what this company know. well, it was really interesting again, who is going to be held responsible? well i, i think we're going to be held responsible. okay. we approach showing the uncomfortable truths about this. we've been doing it from the very, very beginning. and, and, and matthew, we're all lucky, right now is at west western media. it's, it's okay now to talk about corruption, the new great, remember before the complex, it was a corrupt the country and then only 15 minutes ago we could talk about it again. matthew, as well words are, are very, we take them for granted what the, the, the, the, the power of of telling the truth. and i mean we see them on one side where it's

kind of like the, the, the child, the story of funds. christian anderson with the child who was the 1st one due to have the courage and the innocence in a sense to just say the truth that the emperor has no clothes in it. and then if you couldn't put that jamie back in the bottle and i think you use, you are sort of seeing some inklings of that where we see the breakdown of polling just simply saying, you know, openly and loudly that the ukraine is like a drowning man. the more you give, the more they're going to taking, they're still going to take you down with them. you've got some serious, some actual resistance. it seems inside of the us congress as well. uh towards this . and you know, there's, there's an open demand to actually see where the money is going. why are we having no account ability, no oversight. but at the same time there's, i think, a raise over controlling the narrative. and we, we heard just into our den, who's now all of a sudden, somehow this major chief at harvard in charge of a basically planning out the censorship for the new internet. seeing the words are warfare and how for every weapon of misinformation run by pro russian voices. we

have new weapons to counteract that, that we're, we're gonna bring online, but we can't say what they are yet, but they're going to be an important weapons. and you can only imagine the desperation to get control of this new reform the eventually when you've, that you've already given a discursive example of when they go to a wide here being pro russian. no, i'm pro peace. ok, i'm pro peace. okay? and this is this, there are, well, we and trick that they always play all the time. i want this more to come to an end . now it never, it should have started in the 1st place, okay. and be the not being able to say piece, you know that, that, that it is really do ukraine and all of its people go head. why it as well as you pointed out correctly. now we are allowed to discuss the corrections. thankfully the very strange spokes person, english speaking spokes person to the crane and territorial defense forces was forced, was fired. but over the past week or so, it seems that we were all being threatened with death for potentially being labeled,

quote unquote, russian propagandist, all sitting in with this new trend of basically openly threatening terrorism as the lensky himself told the economist recently that it would not be a quote, good story for europe if we know if the, if the west, the clients to continue sending endless weaponry to ukraine, essentially threatening terrorist attacks. so you know, now i feel a little bit safer. obviously now you're right. we're not rushing propagandists. we are propagandists for peace, so we're going to be called anything kind of propagandist. i would say i had the same exact opinion all along. i want this to end yesterday. but unfortunately, there seems to be this segment of our ruling class and the west that is totally committed to end keeping this thing going and, and really that's kind of so and skis, main demographic at this point. if you have paid attention the news these past few

days, that was kind of one of the major meetings that flew under the radar. was the lensky meeting with a host of c e. o. as in may and his power players at a meeting organized by jp morgan. and he was came shortly after a meeting with the ceo of black rock, which is really going to be the main beneficiary in terms of the grant. whatever remains of the ukrainian run state coming out of all this the of the why they hear you. he wants to privatize the, the looting it's, it's extraordinary. okay. and you're right. it was a meeting that really went under the radar, but it was really significant. if you can pump in out of the, the tax payers go private, okay? and then they can, just as you know, take all the flesh off the bones of what's ever left here. any you live in france, what is public opinion? is public opinion changing against it? against my crown, against nato. you've already mentioned the events going on in north africa. is there a shifting mood? go ahead petty. i have to say something. i do believe that. now

the public opinion stopped to be 3 me angry. even letting go of the condition in which people have to leave. and we of the left lucky raising the open use the convenient insect to refund gates against the government. okay. so you'll know when i was coming back from your brain in february 2015 after the is b was being that as the me i have been sending the utah month to be made to most of the leaders in friends like, you know, what i mean, if you are like sheets any my any was being worked on, you were coming me to the and that's who noticed somebody, and i have been sitting them. that's it. well, not taking tier off the shift to extremism that was happening in your brain is this country would be a major problem in the next 5 to 10 years. and this is what this company actually,

it was saying then it would be very, very easy. in fact, to stop the conflict, but that's mean the other thing in 2015 the most or to make sure that the supplements will be happening in the best condition for everybody. and i told them to go to do you have them each one to be the your opinion, your you stopped, the 2 must have inside the paper and them thus all, you would not get any dollar. i can guarantee you that but a single or is it even steep? would it be rolling onto the ground? yeah, by the data. i'm sorry. tell you it's not about the new membership. it's not a, even about nato expansion. it's about taking russia off the geo political stage. that's whether it's all about okay, matthew, 15 seconds before we go to end the program, go ahead. a agreed? yes. and no this, this really has nothing to do with ukraine. they're completely disposable. this has

everything to do with who is going to be in a dominant position to shape the conditions of the emerging operating system that will replace the collapsing world water that is being that is having to plug pulled from it. and that's where the races that, whether it's gonna be multi polar based upon open system cooperation or restoration of the tech know feudalism and ag population agenda will remains to be seen. all right, everybody, what matthew just said there, take pull out of posted, write it down and put it in your wallet. beautiful summation for the program here. it's all the time we have a gentleman. i want to thank my guest and friends, montreal, and here in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember across uncles the the

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the police one russian soldiers missing after you crane launches a strike on the black sea fleet headquarters and the crime you seduced a stop 5, you couldn't increase massage shut down over the region according to russian officials. yes, president joe biden reports and they promises to give him a seconds miss. how's that could be used to hit the targets as far away as 300 columbus is behind the front lines. basic and damascus analysis, the teaching partnership joined 3 and president bush, all of a sudden the 1st visit to china in almost 20 years. the drywall welcome to you from the russian capital this friday.