the rest of the stairs. oh, but i felt bad. it's painful. i've never met them before. why? listen to me so that i love you so much. so when i heard about that, i had to start, i'm like, wow, so at this point i love to do something by you guys. i felt very bad, very like you somebody that minutes before ranma by died someone very part time in my life. like i've done like i've done to raise the rates. are you relieved which sounds to me to listen to anymore? i don't really differently. like i think it was my brother died. that's how the world is looking at the $11.00 to $13.00. this saturday evening must go time. be sure to check out our comp, all the latest news and updates on his pizza scott, and i'll see you right back here at the top down the

summer. sanchez, i've been doing news now for 30 years into languages all over the world here in the united states interviewed for president's working for major us television networks . and i believe that news should be honest and direct and impactful, and this is direct impact the the us decision to deployed cluster bombs in ukraine. seems to be putting a spotlight not just on the and city is weaponry, but you know what else it's doing. it's putting an emphasis on our foreign policy, double speak, cluster bombs are banned by a 123 countries and condemned categorically by human rights groups worldwide. and here's what makes their usage. so roundly shutting by the way it's, it's a,

it's essentially a missile, right? but it contains thousands of little bonds, and those little bonds are bomblets as they are actually called, spread out over a large area. but see, that's not the end of it. the real problem is, as, as the us originally discovered in southeast asia, 30 percent of the bomb let's. they don't explode when they hit the ground like they're supposed to. that means they can just sit there for, for a year or more years sometimes until later, when a person often a child who comes in contact with it is killed or maimed. children are particularly susceptible to this. you know, why? because these little bomb, what's they look like toys? looks like a little boy so, so, so they come up and they pick them up and not knowing it's a bomb. it just blows up on children. in fact, because so many civilians have been killed by

a cluster bomb. let's many now call the use of the weapon, a war cry. and we all correct. in fact here's president by who's a former secretary then saturday. this is in february of last year suggesting that very same sarah for it says illegal foster bombs and vacuum bom, senior russia. if that's true, what is the next step of this in ministration? is there a red line for how much will be tolerated against billions in this manner that illegal potentially worth it? is it would be i don't have any confirmation of that. we have seen the reports. if, if that were true, it would potentially be a work crime. obviously there are a range of international for that would assess that. um, so certainly we would look to that to be a part of that conversation. that video by the way of jen sacking had gone viral. i

mean, globally viral viewers all over the world. citing it is an example of really hard to deny right, overwhelming hypocrisy. because here now is or former boss explaining why he is sending these cluster bombs to ukraine. fort made you change your mind and decide to give them these weapons to think through it. and it was a very difficult decision on my part. by the way, to discuss this with our allies discussions with our friends up on the hill. and we're in a situation where you crank continues to be brutally attacked across the board by munitions, by these cluster munitions that are have dug, rates that are very, very low. i'm a very high that are dangerous civilians. number one, number 2, and the ukrainians are running out of ammunition. the ammunition that they used to

call and 155 millimeter weapons. this is a, this has a war relating to munitions and they're running out of those and that ammunition and we're low on look, with all due respect to our president. let's not be sold by the but you know, gully g, explanation. this is really a special circumstance this time. in fact, let's be clear when it comes to your. busy foreign policy cluster bombs are really the norm, not the exception, the norm. according to the cluster munitions coalition, the u. s. has by far used cluster bombs more than any other country in the world. we have used cluster bombs, munitions with devastating consequences and conflicts all over the world. cambodia allows vietnam, 60 seventy's we use and then a rock and quite and saudi arabia 1991 and the former yugoslavia, serbia montenegro, costs of 01999. use it enough down to stay in 20012002 in a rock,

2003. and most recently in the m in 2009. the us also supplied cluster munitions to as well, which they used in combat against lebanon, syria that we've produced and transferred hundreds of thousands of cluster munitions to at least 30 countries. gomez for emphasis on name on for you. it's argentina and australia and bahrain and belgium and canada of egypt and denmark in france and germany in greece and on tourists in italy and japan and jordan and south korea and morocco and the netherlands of norway. busy in oman, pakistan in poland, and saudi arabia and spain and thailand and turkey, and the u. a. e and the u. k. not dimension indonesia. now beyond the hazardous of the comments, suggesting that we don't mind what killing innocent civilians even if perhaps their

children as long as we can punish russia. there is another reason why many americans are against the use of cluster munitions. and you say it's not just the opposition that often gets killed by cluster bombs. it's our own troops. look at what happened repeatedly in a rock, american pilot scattered thousands of cluster bomb looks indiscriminately. and in so doing, they placed on mark indiscriminate and long lasting mine fields in the past of their own ground forces. while it wasn't reported at the time, at least at the time that it happened, we now know of at least 18 incidents were unexploded cluster munitions occurred during desert storm killing me. scores of us troops and marines. here is our russian president put in miss responding. he says it's a sign that ukraine is going to stop piles of shows supplied by the west that the,

an exceeding, right, which is why they're meeting these cluster bombs. he suggests, he also warns, somewhat ominously and russia has the same web. it's a short message to somebody, see if it didn't say the stuff that she needs the bus, or as leach and the what, or the non castillo, think way, paper stuff, because each number or the will do, sir, but i to a new deal with the new media you one of the yearbook when you have quite a few minutes to just about done the, the easiest knowing what to put it on the po to me, you know, you will know stuff will be pretty bus if not, and i'm ready to when you deal with nope, and you should just be able to bring the support different from me and i'll start with the answer simpler, but it was nicely to kind of just enjoy to get started talking about this is mark sla boda. he's on the international relations and the security list, and you can check them out by the way. he's very popular on youtube or this channel the real politic with marshall about

a mark. thanks so much for joining us. rick. thanks for having me. it's always a modern, a pleasure to be on the show. what are the things that i find interesting about our president's comment about, respectfully present a buttons? comment is that there seems to be a suggestion that the situation in ukraine is already so terrible. and both sides apparently have been using mass of weaponry against each other. but what difference would it make if we were to add some more weapons and throw them into the mix as well? it seems to be what he's saying. i've never quite heard of president door. a world leaders say something like that. i'm not sure i'm comfortable with that. are you as well? i think it's a clear sign of desperation. more than anything else. all military experts, you name them agree that this has become a war of attrition, not just between russia and the us back to give poetry, jayman ukraine, but between russia and nato. the fact that

a war of attrition fought largely through artillery. right? western papers i've reported that a time 70 to 90 percent of ukrainian military casualties, a been a result of artillery, shrapnel, or explosive. now, here's the problem. russia has the key of regime out gun with artillery shells, according to their own top general valerie's illusion. a $10.00 to $1.00 that it is despite nato throwing every spare um, artillery piece, howitzer and artillery shells a cord into the conflict. several european states have stripped their own military, including the united kingdom in denmark, estonia, you know, of every single artillery piece and shells. an endless amount of shells are needed

. the coverage him was firing between 5 and 6000 artillery shells a day. and russia was firing between 50 and 60000 artillery shells a day. and that's before the height of, of the current of the duel offenses on both sides of the conflict. so if we are at that point war of attrition, key word, how would cluster bombs change that equation? can you explain what i think i know where you're going with those, but i'd like to hear you put it in your words and for our view, for our viewers who are watching you right now. it. yeah, it would both. uh, certainly the coverage is already used cluster munitions, uh, in this conflict in fact, uh human rights watch and even the new york times reported on this back in 2014, when the coverage him uh, almost immediately after seizing power and t as in 2014 started rating re

a rating, cluster munitions down on their own civilian. okay, i, i, but let me stop you for a minute, cuz i, i really want to get this question. i get it. ukraine has used them, at least according to reports. i've seen, in fact, these, this type of weaponry has been used in this, in this conflagration, this conflict before. but that's not my question. i want to know as a citizen of the united states of america. why my president, my government has made a decision that by doing this it can alter the war, maybe when the war for the side that they're on, that it can somehow be a real differentiator. how and that's not the reason they're doing it. they're doing it out of desperation because they don't have any artillery shells left. these cluster munitions are in a 155 millimeter artillery shell jackets. they want to fight or something, even if it's not the best mission for the particular battlefield

use. sometimes they are, sometimes they are not. they're not very good on the offensive. as you noted in your beginning intro, that if you are firing and creating and a rots my in field in front of your troops and a trench and then sending your own troops on an offensive into that trench, you're sending your own troops into your own self created minds the all right, that's not smart. use some cluster munitions, but they're using them because nato, the us even us allies, is real south korean japan have already run through all of their artillery stockpiles of a 155 millimeters shells. be their industrial complex. can't ramp up to meet the demand because they haven't been geared up for this type of land centric artillery heavy conflict for decades. so they're in the soup, continue throwing something 3rd, tapping cluster munitions in artillery shells. so it sounds like,

by your definition, desperation means that short of this usage of these custom, munitions, they would have nothing else left, of course, save. you know, the most dangerous weapons in the world. that would be the nuclear weapons that obviously we are dumped. we have no plans to use, right? that these the key point here, i think you, i think you've hit right the hammer or the nail right on the head. wherever we escalate from here, the cambridge game starts using ever increasing amounts of cluster munitions. russia is already reported to have start using them. they have much bigger supplies of cluster munitions that they have largely refrained from using thus far in the conflict. right with greater varieties. where does the us escalate next to? well, okay, so we're already talking f sixteens. attack is long range, missiles, chemical weapons, us as large supplies of chemical weapons, tactical nukes,

stealth bombers. what's, what's, what's next? what is after cluster munitions? where do we escalate from here? the, the intensity of the conflict right now is the most intense that it has been in a year and a half of the conflict, right? it's ever increasing. it's ever increasing intensity more armaments, more troops. and um, the results for nato's, you know, proxy forces have not been any great progress at all on this great much ballyhooed, defensive salt level. what do you do next? let me look at it. let me put the question and look at it another way from your in moscow. right now, you read the papers of moscow. you see what the sense is there with the people and the government. is there a sense then, that if nato is running out of weaponry, to a certain extent, i'm sure, and the united states as, as well. and the other allies are as well. and obviously ukraine is because they've

got enough of a got help from nato in the united states. then, doesn't that create an enormous opportunity for russia to just go ahead and go in and perhaps do what they originally wanted to do in this theater? which is why russia is already beginning a large defensive right now. largely on reported in the western media in the lou gone sc region towards coupon skin. lamont, according to the key ever seen some 100000 troops, 900 tanks, 2000 pieces of artillery in multiple loans, rocket systems. and they're already making more progress than he ever dream has in the last 7 weeks of their offensive. there is no incentive now for russia to go to the negotiating table, nato keeps escalating, but they're running out of things to escalate with. how do you fight and artillery war without artillery shells? cluster munitions, okay. they can be used sometimes, but they're not always the best tool for the job. russia is seeing that, you know,

tapped out and um, they are not prepared to back down. in fact, they're a neutral war. goals have only toughened since the conflict has begun. what are your expect that the reaction is going to be in the next up weeks? maybe the next month from president zalinski regarding the vist that we're talking about right now. the didn't it? is he privy to the fact that his suppose in avenue mission in this more is being depleted on a, on a, on a regular basis and that soon he may not have any place to turn? of course is, i mean the, i think you can hear that in the ever increasing shrillness of, you know, his rhetoric of his demands of his, you know, showing forever more weapons ever more money. um i,

i think he is desperately aware. i think it's gotta be causing a really emotional problems for him at this point. but, but his prop, again, bubble has built up so much that he can't, there puncture it and admit that kind of reality to is his own people, his own troops. okay. stay right there. okay. i think this is a fascinating conversation. we're going to continue it in just a moment. i'd like to continue this conversation with you. what do you think of this? i'd love for you to reach out to me on twitter or my handle is rick sanchez, tv. rick sanchez, tv. and i'll be looking for you right there and we can have a conversation. when we come back though, there is a strange partnership developing in congress and we're going to tell you who the bed fellows are here right there, the,

the, the, the ad. welcome back. i'm rick sanchez book. it's not a huge, but we're starting. ready see some push back. i present a button even from his own party on this issue. here is congress of and barbara lee coming down hard on biden. and the use of cluster bombs, cost of bonds should never be used. that's crossing the line. once you see

what takes place, we know what takes place in terms of cluster bombs, being very dangerous to civilians. they don't always immediately explode. children can step on them. that's, that's a line. we should not cross. i am here now is what's even more interesting democrats and republicans who normally agree on absolutely nothing these days in the united states. they can't agree on what they have for lunch or finding some agreement on this topic. here's republican now congressman mat gates saying that he will join the democrats on, on the issue of cluster ball. i'm going to be the republican co sponsor of the jacob's amendment before the house rules committee. we have an opportunity with bipartisanship to stand against the war mongering bites. and back with us now is geo political and the military analysts stop marks about a mark. thanks so much for being with us the what. what do you think of um okay,

i'm not. i would, let's not make more of it than it is, but uh, what you're starting to see some resistance, some push back in congress. you saw what barbara lee had to say though, she's always felt that way about wars on necessary was one of the few. unfortunately in our country, who does, but now you have mag gates republican into are few others out there who are saying, look, we shouldn't be doing this is the think this could be the beginning of a groundswell. rick, i, i tell you, i think it's nice to see right from the left margin of the democrats and shall we say from the trump margin of the republican field. right. it's nice to see, but unfortunately there's still a broad bipartisan consensus on both sides that are the middle ground between those 2 tiny margins. it's

a lot larger that are fully in support. and in fact, pushing the by the administration for more for f sixteens for attack. and you know, for a, you know, if, if they could port cluster munitions inside of attack homes and launched them from f sixteens, they would. so it's nice to see, but i don't think it's i'm maybe i'm just too cynical to expect any type of real push back to come from inside the belly of the beast. so lacking that, it seems like the only thing that would make sense in terms of pushback against president biden, that hasn't been astray sion, on another war need. i say this doesn't look to me any different than vietnam, afghanistan, iraq, syria, i mean, libby. uh yeah, man, i could go on and on. where enough americans finally say,

is there anything we can do to try and resolve this thing is there, is there a way we can bring about some kind of peace deal? why don't we sit down with both putting and zalinski? why do we. busy only sit down with so lensky. is that a crazy question that i should be asking for other americans should be asking you remember, how many americans protested against the iraq or quite a bit and it never got any coverage. the millions deleon's pension it it has no effect on the conflict because it was only a 32nd v o, a 32nd voiceover on the nightly news. when millions of people show up in new york city or in washington dc, protesting a war. if nobody knows the street and falls in the forest more and you realize better than any one what a mano lives in support of u. s. foreign policy that the us mainstream media outlets are. so i don't see room

for any type of radical change, whether it's from the populace, from the 4th, the state of the media, from within, you know, the bowels of, of the government, of the deep state itself. i mean, take a look at how syria ends. right, syria hasn't ended in any type of diplomatic resolution. u. s. military still ill, legally occupies eastern syria. turkey occupies the north of it. the syrian government with rock shows ok you, you know, has control of the rest of the country. but with the us sitting on the oil and wheat fields, you know, there's no hope of recovery. there's no peace deal. there's no talking to the enemy because you've demonized them and caricature them to such an extent as part of your, your foreign policy. that it isn't possible then to lower your self to conducting diplomacy with an enemy that you have the villain eyes to a cartoonish degree. can we agree?

let's get back to cluster bumps. can, can we agree that cluster bombs should be treated if not like nuclear weapons, damn near close to it? a military guy, right. i mean, you're older and 5 years later picking them up and dying and you know, the thousands and all there. i read a story recently that said that they are still finding the in, in laos the us dropped so many cluster munitions on the country. a plane load of them every 8 minutes for almost a decade. that at the current rate of removal the government, their estimates, they'll have completely clear their territory of us cluster munitions in 800 years . that's. that's incredible. as much as it is shameful and m as citizens of his plan. and we should be responsible for allowing anybody to do that kind of crap. i think, to be honest,

i'm more worried about depleted uranium ammunition that has of genetic affects causing burst mutations in subsequent generations as we've seen in iraq and serbia, it does a mens o ecological damage. it is a weapon of mass, ecological destruction as well book. but depleted uranium and munition has been supplied to the cambridge mean by the united kingdom and the u. s. has been talking about it as well that has also entered into the conflict. and here's the, here's the problem are we, we, i remember when i was younger, and so were you that we saw these great meetings between people like gorbachev and the premieres of train, the signing all these deals with guys like reagan and, and, and, and they were actually working not so successfully but working toward agreements where they said let's shake hands and say, we won't ross, that line, we won't do this,

we won't do that. we won't use this kind of weapon. seems like today we're going in the opposite direction and it doesn't seem to me. and that's not just to blame my country because i think russia and china and the us, all of the large countries on this planet have not have the, i guess the willingness to come together to do this. and they showing, i'm sure i think they're in, during the cold war there was at least reals of the game, right? yeah. that were more or less respected because both sides had a degree of respect and fear of each other. and, and certainly i think roger, enjoying a respect and fear the united states, me, but the united states through this uni, polar moment of the ninety's, they lost that fear in respect of other countries. they came to believe in us primacy and who gemini everywhere in the world, and they don't think they should have to negotiate with countries that they see as

their ideological opponents. and there are more inferiors. you say a moral inferiors drawer, that's a prime tenant of the us id. ology. the supremacist ideology of us exceptionalism us believes that it is systemically and morally superior to every other country on earth. therefore, it can do no wrong mark so about it's a delight to be able to talk to you. i know you know the study of this stuff on a daily basis. so thank you so much for your, for your insight. we appreciate it. thanks for having me. before we go, i want to remind you of our mission and it's simple. really. i want to try and disable the world. we've got to stop living in these little boxes where, you know, once i doesn't understand what the other 1 may believe or say, trust don't live in boxes. truth is everywhere. palmer chapter i'll be looking for

you again right here where i hope to provide direct impact by golly, the

the, it's high time to reform the existing global governance architecture as soon as possible. it hasn't met the requirements of the ear off for a long time. versus going minutes to purchase a reform of global decision making, progressing to the needs and overall a groups i break. so now leading the way, also this our cds or magic, a ukrainian con scripts sent on the suicide to charge a cut down along the front line parties that move out because the reports and the separate orders of agents to debunk west and in ukrainian claims. the key of troops, a breach russian defense is that also this all washed into the points and you what stop forward say to keep us following the bonds from republicans from all besides reports of ukraine, fatigue overshadow.