of the now recent of the issues with it being discussed in very polarized all the influx of migrants and also issues surrounding the l. g. b, t, community. but when ever you look what ever the subject is, it is very clear that subpacket is divided. it is polarized on all of the topics it's discussing had if those elections on saturday. yeah, we'll be checking in with you in the, in the, i guess the hours coming up to the election as well. you'll be there on stand by onto the lucky difference. we thank so much, we'll see this will after years of failing to else the syrian president aside, washington is apparently still trying and appears to be what america is up to offer . our social media post was sent by the us and support all of the government protests in serious a deputy assistant secretary of state ethan gold, rich spoke with through spiritual liter reiterating our support for syrians, freedom of expression included peaceful protest. and so why the protest erupt in

the southern syrian city of so why that due to the country's economic challenges, and predictably washington has openly express it's support to the demonstrators. let's now explore the underlying reasons for serious economic difficulties. because while us authorities assert their support for the syrian population, their actions seem to conflict with their so called assistance. just recently, the was introduced a new bill as part of a strategy to dissuade other nations from normalizing relations with the syrian government. for us must limit any sort of normalization of relations to the criminal a sod regime. there is no reason why our nation should grant this bloody dictatorship, international legitimacy. this bill would prioritize the efforts needed to limit our recognition of this anti democratic tyranny. so the wes supports the syrian

people in their fight against economic struggles. but anyway, they will keep on stopping the country with more sanctions that have far reaching effects on the population and would further undermine the complex dynamics around a new situation in the country. what we do not intend to do is to express any support for efforts to normalize relations or rehabilitate. mr. side. were listed as single sanction syria, or changed our position to oppose the reconstruction of syria until there is a reversible progress toward a political solution which we believe is necessary and vital. it's also important to note that in addition to the har sanctions impose the united states to force the kurdish lead, instead, as in growth known as the so called syrian democratic forces. that relationship has not only inflamed the civil war in the country,

but has also enabled the west. i'm insane of presence and approximately one 3rd of serious territory, particularly in eastern regions where a significant portion of the country is oil resources are situated. and of course, washington finds no issues when they're kurdish allies suppress the local population in the areas they control. but going back to that apparent us strategy of deliberately causing economic hardship in a country and then appearing as supporters of the demonstrators voicing their concerns over this economic difficulties is a familiar tactics like, for example, with venezuela, when the west supplied sanctions against the country. and fuel protests openly side in with the demonstrators. and again, the same scenario with air on the

you want you to know, we stand with the citizens and brave women over in for real real. and there is also the caribbean nation of cuba, which is so close to graphically to the united states that has been under a devastating us economic blockade for 6 decades, which has caused tremendous hardships for the country and its people. yet, us officials still claim that they stand with the cuban people, that american rhetoric, quote, consistently the pig themselves as the most supportive allies of the people of syria. iran then as well uh cuba, regardless of the contradictory evidence and already a lot of develop. and so on this friday, september 29th. appreciate you joining us. we are back at the top of the hour with all the latest incoming, the, the,

[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross talk. were all things are considered. i'm peter live out . in many ways, the west ukraine proxy war and russia is all about narratives. first deployed was russia's unprovoked attack, then it was admitted, it was nato's expansion. ease that served as a catalyst starting the conflict. now we're told it's all about the future conflict

with china. take your pick, it's all boils down to western to germany, the process in russia and china. i'm joined by my guess, carl john in raleigh. he's a political analyst is doreen and host of the silk and steel podcast. and in london, we have a real consent that he is the founder of a k consulting and a for the players analysts or across up rules that affect gentlemen jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated. all right, let me start out with carl in, in raleigh. as i said in my introduction, we've seen over the last 20 months, these, this change of the sig ways in, in the narratives and how to describe what was go and what is going on now in ukraine. first, that was the unprovoked attack and then a few weeks ago, 10 days ago spelt and breakfast. oh yeah. does this happen because of nato expansion and now particularly coming out of the united states. is it, oh this is a, this is a, a right to is conflict because it's a, it will divide brush it from china will degrade chalk the china is ally, russia. i mean it's,

it's very interesting how we've got to this point because those that wanted cold war 2 point, oh, well, they've certainly got it, haven't they, carl? yes indeed. i mean, by this point, they're just throwing see she's on the wall to see what sticks. and they are trying to come up with different reasons why we need to send hundreds of $1000000000.00 to ukraine, to fund the weapons of munition, to ukraine, to fight the russians at 1st. at fort west is not able to defeat russia. second, why is there a need to have a hostile relationship with russia or china? these are never explained to the public because there's not even a public debate about it. it's just a given that we somehow must be engaging, hostile confrontation with both nuclear superpowers, russia and china. this is frankly insane. we need to have more discussion about the, about this ad, the, the administration,

you washington. they need to come clean to explain why they're doing this, but of course they won't because the real reason they're doing this is to continue to fund the tax payers money to the military industrial complex. just like to wondering what sort of set of time this on wasn't about award that you was planning to window. afghanistan was about to follow tax payers money into the military. industrial complex. and this is what we're seeing again in ukraine. i don't know on the, on the same note here. i mean, it seems to me now in retrospect that this was, i planned forever more just as carl is explained to us here. i mean, the griffith ended in afghanistan and 20 years pretty good gripped, but the grips out for you, ukraine. now you're getting into the big number category. okay. and we, we know that from a, a briefing that was given a few days ago to congress is that there's no timeline here. and the, the amount of money that is the needed will be end. let's hear this is

a shirley and, and a forever war that washington doesn't want to end and end up the added advantages. lindsey graham says, you know, no americans are dying, but a lot of the ukrainians are en route. go ahead. oh yes, visa on i do agree with you, but 1st of all, i have to start with some make, you know very clear that i'm not paying attention to media negative. i'm paying attention to a bigger picture, which is a both of it stopped trim levels of his talk through the husband of the month to $92.00 to new york times. a tv says that the only superpower in the world can be united states. according to this doctrine, ever since that time, as edward on kind of the other time, a senator from united states pointed out, it wasn't a clear cold for the 21st century americans imperialism that no country kind of

shooting steps. but this is the motive. so from the in united states in washington, dc, regardless of what a particular uh, president will be in the office or the government. i mean, the politicians, what they will say in the, in the public. well, let's see, we remember the, the big chain, you know, about the time and clean power we're trying to, you know, some how a manage the crisis, all of the catch all the of both of it's talking about the ever since 1992, this sense and we are seeing this, clearly we have our own stuff. america as it is, will not allow a russia to be a competitor or a china, whether it is possible in that capacity to, to, to make this happen is the only question. but what i'm trying to say is, regardless, what is the media and they make that regardless what calls all said about the

america should come clean. i mean, america never complete with, with the intentions of us. as we all know, america's motors are on the east to be a sole superpower in the world. a nice thing the, the is food 5 to be that the, i'm any elections in, you know, i could say would change this because the no range of a gemini, of imperialism is the only country that is, has the ability or a privilege to set the rules and in this case, the, in a level international order is the united states and is the countries like china, old russia stand in the way. this creates a, a huge problem and the potential ingredients for the complex i'm place. so this is my understanding of the current situation. i think your point about the

world of its doctrine is absolutely spot on. and i remember very clearly when it was rolls out, was scoffed out. it was actually made a made fun of, but in fact it became policy. and you're also right. is it, it doesn't matter who's in the oval office, this continues. but karl, i will push a little bit back against that. i think, i think narratives are important because narratives are used to sell it to the public. okay. and we've seen um, you know, the, the, like, particularly the political right in the united states. you know, the problem with the c, c pay the cc paisley, they never talked about a china is being communist until it became a threat. and, but i think the narratives are really important because that's how you sell it to the public. and the republicans in the united states, they will be on board for this if they can say, well, if, if it's against russia and it hurts china. okay, we're all in. that is a segue carl. i agree. absolutely. because so there is a divide in united states,

whereas the republicans want to have worked with china and the democrats want to have worked with russia. so there are some planners say, well, why can we do both? cuz i'm literally literally saying that united states must prepare to have a war with russia and china, which is absolutely insane. and right, right now, this of all this excuse is really because there has been a space captured by the military industrial complex in the united states. you know, us likes to say it's the leader of the free world. it's a world's greatest democracy, but we have what we have in us right now is a blue talk or see a government wrong for the wealthy. by particularly the wealthy leads that owns the weapon. manufacturers like the re fee on lockheed martin and boy and the country is now being run for their profit. and this is why we must continue to engage you more across the world. you know, 1st off the amazon, you rock and libya, syria,

and now you crate so, so he really didn't matter except right now i think they're biting more than they can chew. because russia and china, they're not your rocks, they're not libya, they are armed with well, well talk karl, you must been a b, a watch or of this program because i've been saying this for years. okay. the united states, let me go to add real right now. a lot of the united states has never had to confront a peer adversary. they have with russia, and this is something new, and it's about working out the way they expected it. go ahead and loved him on this side. sure. uh, i mean, uh, well, uh, according to the, to the modem plans. i mean, obviously they, they the cost of the plan, the, uh, they make the projections about the, uh, single future about the rules and its almost a whole. so they need a new draft. i mean, they need more people. uh, and in order to join the army, um the topic is the um, the quality of the people that can join the army. you know,

the was a sweeping or on the west and was especially in united seed states. i mean the of, of the city, the well, the luck of a discipline, the drug addicted drug addiction, all sorts of mental illnesses i'll say is really uh, so, i mean, this is the business which is the end. and these, all the facts i've had that we know and so as a whole, but we have to understand other people. i like pull both of, it's in all the neo conservatives and you can add to the cult of insanity, you liberals, people, and same. so regardless where the, the facts and the, the states of style saw this and shows all the other way around. like, for instance, like calls are going to be getting set up. it was impossible for you crazy to win the war. i mean, just recently, the president zip is the least, he said,

and he's the one of many of the numbers. speech is not without the with you, great will, will, won't be the strong will be defeated, which is obvious to any, any, any effect fits a great, uh, i mean, the person who has a chance to, to attend the high school. i went to school with some at some point, it is the fact that the same people like musical sometimes they, they, they are treated by decide tricity thoughts or total total as rush up to with the china and the greed. because these will, our commercial was the, was full res, hello susan. the whole state full, the market share. so of, but by understanding basis like, you know, america, it's really been hijacked by the people who are well and for the audio be before we go to the bait here i, i agree with a reason there, but i think there's an element of hubris as well. in moral superiority, that's very much part of this message. they, you know, in china and russia are, are, you know, you know, culturally inferior, you know,

the west is the best. i think that's very much part of the 15 seconds before we go to the break, go ahead as well. oh yeah, i agree with you. i mean, we know that the international relations as a discipline is racially charged for coming down numerous academic books above the bases of men, racial, you know stratification within the national relation. and so when russia, as an insult is treated as us. yeah. take the i have to jump here gentlemen, we have a hard break, and after that hard grades, we'll continue our discussion on russia and china and state

the the, the welcome back across stock where all things are considered. i'm peter roosevelt remind you. we're discussing russia and china. the okay is go back to carl and raleigh carl, i am older than you. i'm older than ad rail. so i have a little bit of wisdom on my side in memory. okay. but, you know, i'm a child of the cold war literally, you know, the entire cold war. i lived through it and they had something, i guess people forgotten about. it was called, they talked,

why can't the west have? they talked with russia in china and other countries, the one that's not on the agenda. okay. all we get is this kind of joseph burrell nonsense. that we're the garden and you're not, you're the jungle. that is a very primitive way of looking at the world. and not to even considering peace and peaceful coexistence is an insult to the times that we live in. go ahead carl. it's about jobs and careers. i mean, why do people like joseph or all, you might have a job in the founder lane. uh, people like that. what do they do exactly, except asking us miles east washington. i mean, you know, called carl carl david worth. he's a mouthpiece for his the wednesday. i mean, it gets worse, a good thing. keep going, carl. what the, the, the whole, the whole edifice of nato exist just to come through russia. if rush, if you west and russia or china or to become friends,

you're gonna throw out all these natal bureaucrats, all the think tank crews out of jobs. so it's, is there, there is their own self interest in order to maintain their salary, their listening standards, they must perpetuate war and they must continue to show what this war was. this is, this is very unfortunate back, but deep, but also us. so we have talked about, there's a lot of hubris, you know, why do us the empire act and wait? they do, well, why do dogs eat fishes? because they tell us sell like you could throw its weight around because of it. yeah, yeah. he's used to throw his weight around without calling to resistance. well, this time is different because russia and china is much more, is much more appear near peer competitor to the united states than anything us as in culture before. and i need to remind people, us have never really won

a war against a near competitor. you know what we're to, it's a soviet union that did. most of the heavy lifting us did do quite a bit in a pacific war. but then japan wasn't appeared a competitor of the united states, and now us base thinking to fight russia and china, your co work got to. they thought you could win. but guess what, today's russia in china is not the soviet union of yes, through years today, we're looking at the brakes that has a large and larger economy that all of the g 7 combined. this is why there's a lot of a panic also in washington. and are you working capital? they're trying to preserve the gym, the west, red gemini, at any cost, including waging up very terrible proxy work ukraine. yeah. well, i don't know also uh it would be, uh, uh, it would be a shame if we didn't remember what happened exactly almost a year ago. let me think, oh, the destruction of the north stream pipelines. okay. of course. no one will. i

guess we'll never know, you know, that's, you know, one of those great mysteries of the cosmos. but the echo would carl was saying to maintain that had gemini, you're willing to damage your so called friends, go ahead and london as well, does the law stream to the bottom line a terrorist attack? is it bit, well, it was one of the greatest a commercial terrorist attacks and the western history that we know, and i, i do believe is the germans have dignity. having some jones, i'm sure that they are over there. and this is a ticking bomb, not the united states set one year ago. and it will blow into the full collective west face in the coming months or years. and i will lay the ground, the hottest laid the ground full full of the night to dismantle it. goes, go,

i may, i, i do a lot of the pregnancy. i'm not delete this other as it is because i love that many quite a bit. oh, it's a dream. it remains to be seen it we means to be say, nice i, i agree with your son to ment. okay. but to have what i refer to him is sergeant schultz standing next to biden, you know, i mean, i mean the absolute complete full. he was, he was made out of, he made himself a full. okay. and, and he just stood by so i hope that there will be consequences. karl, you know, nature always says there's always a defensive alliance. ok. well, it looks like it wants to militarize asia and going into confront, encountered china. well, china is not gonna take that sitting down like to know that different than russia. well i, i was not aware of the north atlantic now it's, it's the stance to, is this. i was trying to see, but realistically natal, you've been with the war

a proxy where you, you quitting again is russian. what realistically can nato do in china, in a place that sold far wrong from europe, they have to fight what's still called the tyranny of distance is just to ferry all the materials to be called to, to fight in china sprung yard essentially. and let's not forget, china is a world's factory, china's industrial capacity dwarf, even that of the united states. and right now, joyce's basically come prowling, it's all vassals, european bass, so to cite all along its work. we try that because us know by itself you cannot win against china. and now your opinion leaders like bounder lane, like joseph bar out there, committed suicide for you. you because us use this, essentially cannibalizing is allied to sure is still showing up is onto the 1st part capacity. that's what we have seen after the bombing of north streams, all the unit, jeremy industrialists,

now they have the tab for united states because they no longer have access to cheap rushing gas as well as well. i mean, i guess i'm glad that was brought up because i liked cannibalizing allies, and that's exactly what's going to happen. i mean, the europe is being de industrialized i, i don't see it as in much of an asset if it, it, it's the industrialized poor in recession all of the time. what kind of when is that, andrew? oh, there's a says even full for the united states. aren't good, so 11 competitor potential competitive down, and we know that going back to the most true question, is that for the united? so why don't the greatest spreads for the united states? from that perspective was a close alliance between german economy and russia. so once you have you up down and you know, for, for john and companies moving to the, you know, uh, from production to united states that the china to any other countries. yeah. they,

they, duster lies in the europe is no longer uh, from united states. i would say i would go even further the united states never proceed. you, but europe as an ally, it will say, as, as the corner of the, a bustle, approximate. so if you're a mazda in about, so the relationship is a slightly different on the dynamic between friends. we never been friends and, and, and the united states. i mean, the americans know this and you're in europe is also in the service only than the, the so called charles is browse and others who been put in place because you have to, you know, i think that before about mentioned at this point of view of in you, you have all the creational c i united states in order to unified europe on the flag and, you know, they have the confidence to be easily managed by united states. and europe in union is a american construct. i would say uh so um, yes,

i mean you're being union has come out to kind of blogs and you'd be the european within countries of whether you will be in the country is a key to be come on board, come he lies. i'm not sure. we can see the hungry, we can see both joe, we can see other countries who are slightly moving away from the range the both by the united states. i mean, also when it comes to the boston summation of russia are both drugs no willing to have no, i bought this depends from, from, from most coke during the, um, the, the, the, the, the meetings on of the is ation hungry. we know the hungry and stuff from the very beginning business. the many other countries grew up behind because those things the same on for us and we bought a reluctance old codes, the girl. what does it normally do to, to drawing the code with, with,

with living to all the we saw c o the hold my breath because palms are changing and people are the fools. but what is happening in the national elections and people will be voting with their feet. so in order to stay in power, you have to somehow please your electric. and if you're not facing your electric, you all down and we've seen this in an easy, then we've seen this in, in numbers of the european countries or across the west as well. so we shall see. i mean i, i wouldn't hold my breath, i wouldn't hold my breath either, but i wouldn't be, i don't think it's out of the question. considering these new conventions about this information is that some elections will just be called no one boy, nope. nope, there was, there was outside in pitt, interfere, and so you know, that we, we void the selection, they're gonna start doing that. okay. uh carl, what is the major lesson is china? do you think is drawn from this ridiculousness and ukraine, a conflict that never should have started in the 1st place?

what conclusions would they draw as well? i think one conclusion is to be drawn is your us is a paper tiger. i mean, look at us is having trouble to supply artillery and munitions to ukraine. this we're talking about country that spends nearly a trillion dollars in dfcs budget that have larger defensive budget. and next to the top 10 countries combined, yet they do not have the industrial capacity to simply produce artillery shells for ukraine. so russia is, he says, not only taking on ukraine. russia is taking of the united states and always european bass all at once and rushes whitney so that what china can take away from that is the, you know, us military is this giant load where that, you know, it's not what it's the hollywood crack up to be well, i mean, you know, it's interesting, carl, that they don't, you know, they don't want to send certain weapon systems. you know, they, they're always hesitating. i don't,

i don't think it's because they're afraid of escalation. i think they're afraid the world can see that the most of their military hardware is junk. okay. and it's very over priced junk. okay. because now we're going to see these abram tanks. they will burn like any other tank in ukraine. and this is something that the pentagon is very worried about because you know, our sales are very, very important, and they want to keep selling them to europe. so i think that's one of the hesitations. they have not escalation, not, not g o politics. dollars is what concerns them gentlemen. we've run out of time on a think, my guess in raleigh and in london. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our tea. so you next time. remember across couples, the