the, the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the, the welcome to wells, a part for here's the, is really posting and conflicts tend to be the most irreconcilable discord in international relations. but now this green title is being claimed by the war in

your plan, which unlike the middle eastern tribe hasn't, if you've seen any meaningful mediation efforts, which one is harder to resolve? at this point, hope to discuss that i'm now joined by gabby subordinate senior research here at the jerusalem institute for strategy and security. this is important is great to talk to thank you very much for your time. now, before you became a worst cooler, i know that you served as an infantry officer for the israeli army, and he took part in both lebanon, worse, which some members of the international community, a condemned as illegal or as wars of aggression. and i wonder what was it like for you on a personal basis to partake in conflict that others described as a barbaric? well, you know, it means that we are always described as doing illegal activities. it doesn't

matter if we do anything using both uh was, were self defense was and we had to respond to severe effects of fellows from other northern borders. this from 11 on monday with that are not the only tool was because i pacific o same that we found in baton a production which was a, a 3rd one. so level known as being the 4 years instability players. and that's a continuously, it was the arresting, the northern population of isn't. and from time to time we have, we have to, we have and we had to react. it's not only about what others say. i think it's also about the so called international because the un general assembly condemned to israel's actions or the general assembly menu. because the general assembly does not specify the international law. the national is very well specified. the inside is always been conducting only some of the positions within the constraints of the constraints of international law, but extraterritorial liam. no,

i understand that there are no, i would argue with that because i, i have to decide the fact that i practice it in person via our research to this issue for many years and the, and the together with the international committee, it was as close as in the office, in the event and the, and the i have to stay with that is one of the most responsible states taken care of, of international law and is a very, very, and, and careful in trying to prevent. so civilian loss is known involves to mr. support, i'm sure you would agree with me that every, it's faith existing on this planet with claim the same, including the americans, including the russians, including the chinese. so i want to ask you specifically about israel, how do you think it balances the constrains up, you know,

imposed by international law versus the prove all good use of its own secures to reach sometimes it run counter to i personally to challenge your 1st statement that the f is every country on one side, the same. it's not a method of saying it's made that are affects on the wrong. because i have seen how, for example, the american says behaving the new york. how's the russian side behaved? in other places, the, in the, in the, in the word like the, like what i the syria and i can see, uh like in the, uh, i can uh, you know, in the, in the eighty's in enough to understand and the associates said okay, sorry to i i regular life is and the, and the anyway in all the conflicts, all st. george, i was the show us the process interests, area and the, and i've seen and the last i smoked on the russian because is a, is practically the writing the for national with. it's a very,

very careful conduct in the fighting in the complex areas in the, in the high populace is very popular areas. well, uh, mr. simone, if you can allow me also a little bit of a soft relate and revelation. i have many, our friends who are here critical it as you can imagine of israel's actions. and one of my friends told me that it's easier for me in the russian to get a visa to israel then for him, even though his family lived there for generation. so i think we can at least agree that israel's actions have also been criticized in human rights, right. the only reason, but also access to certain is our last the big treatment of the civilians on the ground. the freedoms allow to them. i don't want to do something from us for example, which is the father standing on the organization. the strategy of from us is to fire me size towards civilian population is that i kinda got schools,

whatever from civilian population as a prospect issue. so you, they use their own civilian population, it's not the secret of ours. and about if there's so many times, for example, there's been fighting massage from the vicinity of over the u. n. the refugee a policy in order for g organization from that has anything of hold on for them scores. and why do they do that? just for one reason to protect themselves because they know that is and will not fire back to a place where the school or there is um, you know, with the highly highly chest is that none involved would be huh. so even if it's rarely citing, it's all to destroyer and let's say how much the headquarters we normally warn the people inside that headquarters and that's where they're going to bump. and we want them either. we listed either we phone calls that are evidence of such

phone calls. and if the those to the work they, we also use some enough to charge us that does not only make sound to make sure that the population in the house is evacuated before we destroyed. so i think uh this, uh, um, let's say this claims about this and i know they close. i know them, they exist, but completely unjustified. now, as i'm sure you know, um russia has been very careful long before the current conflict, the new credit has been very careful about it's good just as most in israel and i think also very understanding of israel's security sensibilities. i'm sending the realities on the ground may differ from some abstract values and the same time as mundane the working relationship with the palestinians when the radians with other actors in the region. how do you understand most co stands? these every, your country, especially on security matter. yes. first of all,

i think that the russia has a very important role because they have very strong ties. we visited, in fact, when the soviet, in the beginning, the soviet, the immigration policeman and they took the russian immigration pleaseland has contributed very much to these then economy info. is there a scientific good because they do cation brushing, so and the same with the dom, enjoy this over the very much appreciate, i don't know what happens with that. i shouldn't be patient, but they're very much appreciate the soviet education. so difficult to get an answer that has been essential thing to hear that thank you. yes, and the, so this is the sides of use that and also we are, we're actually supposed to be close to tests a very good relations with our enemies, with the enemies of the fall as soon as the others can the people, i'm sorry. oh no, they are not the kind of thing and people are not the enemies, but the organization like, i'm us like uh,

just let me jot this out anyways. or the syrians without writing these and still it out. i'm name is they declared or they are on the inside of our entries. so they have good relations with these are, these are the countries, and it's very important to have this kind of a relations with a, an entity that can make some terms with those countries. because that's very important. and that actually is also, as you know, involved in city, i'm very much and we are active in syria, is that he's very active in trying to avoid it on to get the photos in, in, in syria. and that is why it is affecting this iranian, and also seriana if, when they jeopardize very much our security and infrastructure in syria, the end, the end, the, we are called. the nice thing though is that text me is the options. what do you think made it possible because i'm sure you understand the context and the reason this interview is taking place. we have a war and the neighboring country with a, you know, well what we used to refer to as a brother,

really nation before. and you have to, what you're telling me is that the russians are actually when it comes to the battlefields. russians can operate with the degree all 5, you know, reasonableness, why do you think that's kind of cooperation that is possible in syria between these rallies and the rainy. and so even the american said there is no competition. when is the thing that like into linking the, there is a just to make sure that that was clearly understood. there is cooperation, operation of cooperation, back the color portion. corporations was the in russia. well i is my it is it, i couldn't get on. absolutely. but all sides in d and this cooperation, understanding that old practical interest, they've continued being uh, maybe avenues at some point or competitors at another. but they've proceeded with this with certain norms. why was it possible in syria and why do you think it was possible?

let's say when it comes to ukraine's when i was i would talk about to create and 2nd, i just want to to specify my point regarding celia or the, the sicilian it on so that they are expertise very harshly against these that i, they, they also type of a huge federal campaign because they have a strategy of, let's say they want to gain as you money released. so is a, is for them very, to cite on. and the big one is america and russia is balancing it out. i mean, i, i don't know if russia is policy goes, i know that the, to your on and is very heavy involved inside is that i with out of these ladies with the policy and then a 10 organization helping them and promoting them and funding them in and doing federal effects and these are, this, is that the, as i'm sure, the, it is really intelligence the ethics in, you know, seriously a couple of the welto says, you know,

i settled this thing to kill innocent people with no discrimination. that is why it is not never has done that's i think it's fair to admit that you know, each country it engages itself and cover the operations and, and that's beside the portion of our, okay, the facilities are absolutely, absolutely quoting for production as the, as we say in because the websites are things that so you'll, you'll, there's as written in folding press. that is where it was active, you is active in your on. but it's not doing their own activity in your own is no telling me is civilians in your on indiscriminately? why is it on his doing? that's very heavily elizabeth. can i repeat my original question is why do you think that kind of operational rivalry versus cooperation that was possible in

syria where russia is uh, functioning as a, as a goal between at least let's say, between israel and its enemies. why do you think that model wasn't possible in ukraine? why do have and why does ukraine have to be, you know, somebody else has some somebody straw fee or rather than being at the former government. i think i've seen that before that then, you know, maybe you had, we had the shortest time of one year under government, which the former prime minister saw that you would be able to get some terms thing that i showed you claim in the beginning it was a bits in my view, pathetic with the i, i, you know, this is a battle between huge entities is that is a small country. you know, we are, we, we, we barely have energy to take care of the products. but the, but to, i think that the 1st of all, i want to tell you personally, that the water between the i, i so it's coming, i understood it was coming. and, you know, one has to understand the sense of self defense, the pressure ahead o,

o, in regard to the activity of your credit and mainly the activity is not nato in the eastern side of the interest of people for a moment. because this is a, here's an important question and we have to take a short break, but we will expanding it just after searching the there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case for the madness of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also of soon. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing, press 4. so the funder line likes to say, we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals. living on

mac, we have fabulous propaganda. you know, a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask the better the answer is will be the welcome back towards the parts we have gabby subordinates, senior research, or a digital phone institute for strategy and security, especially before i interrupted you. you started talking about self defense and self defense is indeed something that israel coins it on many occasions and something that special also involves to justify its military operation in, in ukraine dissing. it's a legitimate, the side of the fastest parts of the, when the cri, you know, that the, to a lot in another country. oh,

you're allowed to, to the ext themselves. be sense? what if you want, if you are effects your self defense? i, i mentioned that russia, i did not say that the through x as self defense. i said that it was a i a, the, the, on my understanding what this to lasha is acting under the, the sense of self defense. imagine, but the russian troops are, are deployed on the border between mexico and the united states. what the, what was the united states doing this sonata? i'm sure that they were lots of states were not thought of it such. and i scares a costly scholar because this tension between russia and nature, russian, the west has been, had been boiling for many years prior to 2022. it wasn't a proxy for him. cyber attacks, a, you know, military drills, chemical lapse, what have you, diplomatic stripe, but it wasn't, can that a,

what do you think allowed for these uh, sort of under the carpet conflict to become full. we expressed more on the battlefield 1st. if it was an initiative of the government, the federal government, the russian government has stopped so that how do understand the server you're going to send that to. busy first of all, before the, the, all state, if you begin actually the kinetic hospital to begin. there was some, some of the when you know, i'll study facing other means. you know, this now with the, the formation at all. um, what's your quote, information and competence or influence on influence? the only thing for wars i hear force has been active very much and i don't know if it's a compliment or not, but the size of very, very well known as least in, in the my immediate. but that was that pressure as well known for its ability coupon to conduct this kind of, of pleasures with yes, absolutely, this last minute. i don't know that russia is active all over the world in europe.

even now, what do you actually mean by that? because i've been working with these channels, which has been described as a propaganda before, and i've been working here for the years, but i tried to do all list analysis with a saw the 3 actually live on the same planet them. if it's a, you know, comes up in the nuclear mushroom and nobody real bad at the 1st of all, the brush size is not the only one that's $10.00, increment, so, pollution. every, every state responsible states will use the different influence operation, which is a, you know, on a cell phone to propagation of your views. i'm looking for wars once it went on. as long as i say on your, for this operation is not on his so feel 00 zeros is okay. but the fall for us and start to affect how people, for example, in get a money or import on or into both takes a think and act and using what we call inflow stores or fake news or

whatever, whatever do you want to use to, to convince them or to, to, in the portal arise the discourse of to make good some carting stuff really. i don't see a rush i using to be honest with you. i don't see russia using too much. faith was, i mean like we have the trunk and she showed us i, i don't know what this tooth anymore because of the pressure. i don't know what to say anymore. only god knows what this through. we are now facing. you know, when i read something, i don't know i, i believe nothing. what i read then, or whatever, only my mind and sometimes my mind is, is money to raise by others. and i don't know that it has been manipulated. dorsey is not affected anymore. you don't know what these through as well, so everybody's using the best way to get their goals will be it through beef non through, nobody else know them, or just like to say that a perception is reality. and this is actually one of the ways they used to pose the world view onto the rest of the world. and i think one of the reasons why the

russians launched a military operation in ukraine is to prove that the reality is reality. and if your security interest off threatened, you have to respond not just by words, but by actions disney rusher will succeed in that. i researched it. first operation during the transaction was the 1st year. and so trying to understand what the, what, what's going on that you guys are also active very, very much into so you know, everybody's activity. and so, and this is a part of the war. now it's become a part of war. you, you don't use only genetics use also can you, when the war through influence operation only can you when of conflicts through the influence of right. i'm sorry, you're so a module to the, you know, to the source in future without shooting bullets and without getting your money on your votes, there is no way to win anywhere. now i drew some parallels between these rarely, pl listing and conflict and the were in the ukraine. and i think one major

difference is that whenever these rarely posting in strive goals kinetics, they're always efforts to mediate or at least their calls for a cease fire. but in the case of your brain, we haven't seen any meaningful efforts. you mention these statements by former israeli government. there have been some turing sonata capitals, but nobody gave it a real hard effort. why not? why not? yeah, well i, i think that the you, russia and ukraine did not receive a claim. you gave me is not the loan because ukraine is somehow authorized that slash money to later bye bye. and i made a consult by west some countries and the, and the, the, the, the, the months of fuel credit in orders that are in ski and, and not acceptable by anybody in our shop. they the, it does not match, you know, they want to add a role to the board,

the self and 9091 or something they don't. and it does not match. so as long as and they stay on those 2 bullet points. if it went up to it doesn't matter if you bring the money out to the table or bring someone else to the table trying to get terms between the size. it has to be, you know, i've read recently in the last days that there is, there is a reduction in european se population. so both for to continue supporting ukraine. and that is that eviction in america support to continue to support that you create and just see what happens with the logic now in, in the corporate us in the, in america. and maybe maybe the, you know, the restaurants is a huge part of this. i don't mess with the russians, and the, you know, maybe, uh, but also sort of way thing. they have enough energy to wait until you can use one of them or say, okay, i bundle, we still, this is extra level. so i think

a very interesting parallel, because uh for many years uh the united states, despite claiming neutrality has been squarely on israel side. but uh, more recently the american support for israel hasn't been voted, but it has become less prominent, maybe less for right before friday. do you think this thing could happen to ukraine? because i know you've been the very strong advocate of self sufficiency when it comes to israel on defensive renters. ding your credit has any 1st of all are interested in, i want to fiddle for the gotta think, isn't it? i'm, i'm, i'm, is advocates for many is that is an issue not rely on anyone for it's a defense is an actual defend itself by itself. we, we don't need all the time. you can do that without the americans. for 4th financial, the board, the ability to, in our independence will. okay. in 48 and we will 600000 people against a huge the minute the the effect on the side for from out of states trying to

conquer the joyce, the small to a settlement. that's what the things that i, i say i'm, i'm sure we can do it because we have a behind us 3000 years of history and we've managed and we wanna manage. and the, i don't know they're about to create new client is relying on just so that the numbers, the 45000000000 dollars of america, the support from the us through the last couple of us. and this is no, it was amounts of money. so i don't think that your client is going to abandon is a, it's a what they perceive as the eliza on, you know, and, and, and i hope that the nato is not pushing too much to enter your brain, turned into an a to this will escalate the situation completely input position, i think whatever, i will not throw out even the use of nuclear, you know, it's, it's, it's very sensitive. distortion is very sensitive. and i, i really, we, i don't people of piece, you know, l one piece. and i hope that will be found that before the solution for the

conflict in russian, well, uh, the difficulty is finding the feasible solution is that it's not just about the conflict of interest, a conflict between russian ukraine. it's also about, you know, brother architecture in europe and i see the as the look the, the, the, and the we had now discussions about the, the, they show that america has been with an isaac. it's donna making it as a military monetizing meaning sizing, the economy and the, and, and this a to a counselor, lucian, china, russia, india and other right. you know, but i was in south america in south africa and sorry to also south america at 12 to create an independent financial and framework not to rely on the dollar and not to rely on. and this i think, is going to be their reactions for you and in the end a, maybe a,

it's most, although that's where i'm not the, you know, it is only focusing on the american economy because it said we need some kind of more redundant. see in this well or self sufficiency or equality, it says it is and then we have learnt also for on this will you know that the, the, the health system of euclid has been destroyed by the russians breakfast. and the, and the, and the, you know, this is so not to get go so it can happen easily by all readings. and we have to find ways for to secure our health system for attempt to go and listen, done secured for supply. allison, done. and to make sure that is rarely sub sufficient, was it as much as it can? can i ask you one last question because israel also has to think about winning the so called hearts and minds of the people. on the other side, do you think there's anything that russia can authentically offered to ukraine to

increase the chances of a to settling on a national basis and possibly keeping the big american proxy of a? is there a i would presume to not, you know, it would be presumptuous to me to, to try to advise that are simple i'm, i'm asking about your opinion. yeah. my opinion, but i have to, you know, when i have to intervene and it has to be based on something with what i don't feel that my basis is sort of enough about the conflicts. i'm, as i told the, with my, my main, my main concern about is about our conflicts and how to manage. for example, i know that it would be very difficult for is that the, when the house and minds of the ops, okay. the coffee is very, very deep and the which is not very deep in the, in your crime between, you know, most of you could, i have some options. yeah. you know, well, that's a very, yeah, you know, charge. i might have the wrong with the numbers all the manual. 0 comments are

russians. well, they don't consider themselves russians any more. absolutely. well, the story clue that they were, i should look historically. i mean many at the end of the one on caesar, oakley, i meant, okay, this is the last, as i would exaggerate 100 years. and while we are with the on up. so we have a story. so it's a, you know, so i'll conflict is deeper, is i understand that it's easier to getting tennessee they will try and support. so for when that these virus still getting things without a while, i hope to be honest with the policy number because without ups and just seeing that then, you know, is the, is wing medical. so is the, with the, they all around the corner of the agreements and with the, the saudi arabia. now hopefully we will have piecing some of the area and try to isolate the policy and an issue with it, obviously, which is very important for us. well, that's how the, both of this conflicts us settled in our lifetime lifetimes. assisted by the f one to make you less that the, you don't, you have case mike. i have case i told them,

look, you are heavy enough or so you'll ventures was have you know, well uh i'm not the, i'm very, i just uh well uh i don't know if it's a neltson mystic or pessimistic nose, but we have to live with there thank you very much for being with us. thank you for watching hope this. here again was the part

the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the disturbing images from gauze the the most intense violence in decades between as well as from us gains momentum, saving of a 700 palestinians, dead honest, maybe 4000 ins as well. brings garza and a total lock down with electricity, food and water supplies console. that's. that's the wes remains. i'm just telling dates on continued age supplies,