[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, when a mass launch this operations against israel, the western world, as usual, declared, it was an unprovoked attack. this is not surprising, as with the conflict and you claim the west refuses to accept that he is

responsible for his client, states destructive and illegal behavior of the cross talking palestine. i'm joined by my guess, ramsey bar, rude in seattle. he's a palestinian author and journalist until then we have mohammed mirandi, he's a professor at the university of the rent and in rome we crossed through romano roberto. she is an author and managing editor of the palestine chronicle. all right, cross talk roles and the fact that music can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate ramsey. i'm going to go to you in in seattle 1st because it's a god awful hour there. i really appreciate, appreciate you joining us here. i'm sorry you've been watching the coverage of the complex starting on saturday. and then it was an unprovoked attack. apparently just came right out of the blue, you know, just a bolt out of having here. and it is so painful, you know, as everyone knows, that being covering incessantly the ukraine conflict, can we have the same rhetoric unprovoked attack? but saying this about palestine. i mean, we got to go back 70 years if you want us talk about unprovoked go ahead, ramsey

a. absolutely so, so even i'm going to jump right into it and say that, forget about what kind of stadiums think speed about this just for a minute. to try to understand this to improve bolt. i mean, international law says that 0 is my power. the united nation says the goal that is under siege. i'm pretty much everyone around the world can reconfigure around the world. the united nations is that israel stands in violations of yours. international laws and united nations is resolution. it has a single do norris, but neither for this thing to do what kind of sydney allies nor for the for, for the fact that the city has all the most basic and minimal of pain medicine of freedom of movement to merely to survive. and it takes space day after day after that, if there's anything in the world that gets to bolt,

this is it. so how do you use this term in good conscience and how do they do away with it on friday? the mainstream media is so bizarre these days. this is not a little bit to spare space for us to me is to find these, say, the maybe we have a different narrative or a different political discourse. maybe the last of our children do matter. maybe lots of or people not as maybe just maybe isn't. oh, is that a part time colonial state that should be held accountable under international law? and yet it's, it's not so yes is very much a boat. and that should be where the conversation is as well. that was good to professor mirandi. that would, if they did do exactly what ramsey is, is proposing. that would mean they have a conscience, but they don't have a conscience here. and i'm sure it was a, it didn't go

a missed all 3 of you. we had the arts neo con nikki haley running for the republican nomination for president. and she said on national television, finish them, finish them. but professor that's, that's a call for genocide and it went, nobody said anything. it just went it will water off the back of a duck. go ahead and turn around of a quite a few kind. a few people have been speaking about genocide in the last 34 days. it's a mazing, it's not just as riley officials and it's rarely public figures. it's western officials and western politicians and western public figures that are saying give them how give me that this truck get rid of them destroyed. and if you are, we hope never to hear about gaza again after

a few days and that sort of thing. and i think that symbolizes the fact that is a symbol of, of western civilization and where it stands right now, israel and my, you represents best western civilization today. and the acts of israel represent the acts of western governments and western politically leads. i'm not speaking about the ordinary people on the streets in london or new york that are struggling to get by i'm speaking about those leads and have positions of power and influence and the media and academia in business and in government. they are extraordinarily racist. they are, they are the 2 enemies of human rights and human dignity by saying this was unprovoked. they know they are like, they know that for a 75 years, the palestinian people have been provoked. 24 hours a day. we see almost daily desks in the west bank

by is riley's usually teenagers is rarely regime goes into an account, chose a few. people comes back, nothing happens and it's not reported in the media. saddler's, go and attack children, burn them alive, beat up adult speed up, teenagers, kill a few here in their and it's not reported in the western media and it's becoming, it has become a lot worse. in fact, ever since the new netanyahu regime is come to power, yet the situation has become unbearable. and the attacks and on palestinians have increased. so no one in this part of the world is field by the narrative. and i think in other parts of the world as well, the global south, no one really takes the western media seriously anymore. the,

what the influence of the western media is in the west. yeah. used to be that the western media had gemini over the globe. and now i would say it has had germany over the west, and there is alternative media, but that is, i think, kept in check, well we're, we're trying to turn the page and then with a guess like this, we are reminded i, one of the interesting things is that we had the, the, the, the prime minister of israel saying to the palestinians, and guys, i get out of gaza, the hold that thought. and then you show the airport in tel aviv and people are all leaving. yeah. well, they can leave. okay. but it's, it's not explained to western audiences, but the people and gods are in are in prison. they can't leave and there, but again, in west to me, it just about they have to, we go where go heading room. absolutely. uh, you know, the context is completely missing from every account in western media these days.

and nobody is mentioning the fact that god yvonne's, or her magic feet and has been hunger hermetic fit for 16 years. a few days before october 7, before the policy and resistance launch, the major military operation, we were reporting above the fact that keeping the patients in gaza did not have the medical supplies that are needed to be treated. so doctors went on camera se begging east road, please allow some medical supplies in. this is believe these are the leading conditions. you gotta, which the united nations declared unbelievable by 2001 we are in 2023. what i'm saying is that the support international community, i would say rather the west and also the western media are responsible for what is happening today. because yes, of course, nikki haley called for genocide. a you'll have galandes really defense minister yesterday said that god, that has to be completely shut up,

shut off the word and no water, no food, no fuel. and these are open cause for genocide, but even turning your back completely and not, you know, reporting about the got a seat and about the unbearable conditions of the policy and people means being responsible for that genocide. so i really think that the international community, meaning the west and the western media are actually responsible for what he's helping these days. it'd be no ramsey i, i find that really quite curious, but it shows how sloppy and actually stupid and dishonest. these people are that there has to be a new knock box, which of course, is rarely this course. you're not supposed to talk about it, but when it becomes convenient, then they talk about it. and then they, they, they actually realize and, and, and legitimize me, the historical truth that it actually, the not, but actually did happen. go ahead in seattle to does this really interesting point be there because they are not, not just supervising the that the, the,

the human side of the pedestrians. in 1947, 48. we are actually using the very post in your time, which means the catastrophe of the very destruction of the palestinian home. then i used to be called that. but what is even more interesting is the fact that people in gauze are the vast majority of the are the descendants of those refugees. yeah. some of them are still alive, but the defendants of those refugees who were so cool. i think the clears one by this time in been uh 75 years ago. another really interesting, but everybody is talking about how much this is. let me just have that they are trying to find out. was it you want to behind this was this coordinated with cable, but nobody is asking the question. oh, are these young young people? who are these young people to join some rubies joint me, do you have briggs? a part of other movements,

component circular and social movements and goes up and there are quite a lot of it. there were either were, babies or children with is what it is so huge. on garza started into in 2006, 2007. they have no political consciousness of the time, nor children of this was developed under siege. they weren't being humanized is what else is repeatedly we count calories. we want to keep palestinians live with the dogs. we want to keep them alive and badly so. so the are the outcome of what is, what is speech is what you'd be have to do, human auditing discourse, the count or make, tell them to the level of these pre, the as part of a historical context in which they come from the nation that has no difficult wise, whatsoever, and they are the original duties while the sign ramsey through is really interesting . again, i mentioned in the beginning of the program, ukraine,

the people of the don bass for 8 years had no agency whatsoever. they had no humanity, no sanctity of humanity whatsoever. and this is what and they all the way. and we're not because this has been done to the palestinians for 75 years. okay. and but the parallel as they are the same discourse is used to de humanize and to deny people any kind of power. i'm going to jump in here folks, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on palestine state without

the the, the russian states never is as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best most i'll send send up the progress b. the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on russia to day and split the ortiz full, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say a request which is the

ac 90 age? the pleasure of rica became a us colony, but still retained its own cultural identity. speak in favor of independence. we be thrown into prison today, close to half its population, the grow, the residence of was a retail, have new representation in congress and convert and u. s. presidential elections like okay, we're gonna make you american citizens, which you didn't ask for. even if we were offered citizenship, we would prefer one say, gonna, using these 2 entities, he chose to fight. so he's homelands independence. we felt that we could generate more of a spirit of resist rather than of submissive except a reality that we felt was shockingly fear. sorry, that i decided to fight for my country. no,

not could i have done things differently. yes, absolutely. do i now think that violence is not the means to achieve anything? absolutely. the welcome act across stock where all things are considered. i'm peter real about true mind you were discussing palestine the okay, let's go back to to improve professor mirandi. i mean, after the, the 1st sorry, is that, uh, the mouse shot into israel. minutes later everyone was pointing the finger at the finger at around to announce involvement and all this again. you know, the people of guys who have no agency, they have no and they can't do anything without somebody telling them what to do, which is so tiresome. okay. considering with ramsey just had to say when you, when they, when the blockade started in 2007 and you have children, they're grown up now they've grown up under this regime here. i'm sure i'm pretty sure they have a pretty good idea of who they are,

but let's talk about it around because it looks to me like the lindsey graham's. this is another opportunity that they, they want to have in general more with it around. i know you around will not take the bait, but i'm sure it around is prepared. go ahead, muhammad to yes, and the ronnie is obviously are going to continue helping the palestinian people. and they're going to help him, us and his stomach to heart and all the resistance groups that are struggling for survival and for their rights. but the to deny the palestinian people agency is i think races in itself even though this whole affair is race, is the fact that the western media is supporting an apartheid regime. it shows the institutional racism in the west, but the policy name, people are highly intelligent, highly creative, very smart. and they were able to defeat

a much more powerful and the end, very abusive oppressor. and there's rarely use it suffered a major defeat and they don't want to accept the fact that the downtrodden and oppress palestinian people trapped in gaza surrounded and gaza. that they could to impose such a defeat upon this randy regime. but both the, the, this does not mean that the ronnie as well support the policy and people who are wrong will continue to support the cause of sending people around will continue to support from us. your arm will continue to support your stomach, john, but it is the people of palestine that are fighting to survive. it is the people of color assigned to defeat it this way of the machine. and it is the people of palestine that are being bomb, women and children by that is really reaching day and night. and the western media and we in the west is not

a democracy. there. this whole facade about freedom and democracy is for kids. that's the even kids shouldn't believe it anymore. the western media are, is behaving like but so yours or the is raise the regime. they are trying to justify genocide, they're trying to prepare the browns so that people will accept mass starvation mass that across kaiser. so they're trying to create this moral equivalence. they're talking about. palestinians raping is rarely is without any of the evidence . they're talking about civilians being killed where colossians are being killed every day, every day for years. sometimes in the hundreds in one day, sometimes one a day it's, it's something that they live with all the time. so the west is trying to create some false moral equivalence in order to help the is really, really mean. in some cases, the west is openly supporting genocide,

western politicians, public figures. they used to be these rarely to who, who, who said such things and, and they wouldn't say it in english. now. everything is fine. everyone can say what they really think. and quote, what mohammad, why, and what dentist or china not come down, why should they do it now? they, they support nazis and ukraine's. they celebrated nazi in canada. i mean, what, you know? yeah. the, the, the, the bail was down there. they're very opening what their intentions are here, ramada. i thought it was very interesting to the joe biden is sending the aircraft carrier gerald ford to, to uh, to the power city, the boot method, turn mediterranean coast. okay. again, that's one of the things i look at this comp like, you know, a complex usually is like 2 sites of comfortable power. it's never been the case here. so they're sending an aircraft carrier against guys on motorcycles. i mean, it's really quite extraordinary. and the extraordinary ingenuity of the people of

gaza considering the blockade to be able to defend themselves like they've done, is really, really remarkable. nobody wants to point that out. go ahead and room a yes of city late. first of all, of course the, the, you know, the use of the term conflict in the wrong context has been instrumental for so many years. yeah. and, you know, it didn't recognize the fact that there was an occupier entered, occupied at people. so these was, of course, this has been done for years. what is happening now though, if that's of course, there was an end or estimation of the power of policy in the policy and people to resist, but also of the policy number assistance movements to organize themselves, both in terms of manpower and in terms of weapons and as we said, ingenuity to the point that a couple of weeks ago, a j sullivan, which is the national security advisor, the united states, a set and

a quote to your them even if we don't is quite or today the never been into decades . and these was said a couple of weeks before this happened before october 7th. so it means that of course they were, they were projecting an idea of the middle east. we, we saw and the tiny house at the united nations with the map without the pulse, without the borders of pa, this and say, these are the new with an east. and they were talking about normalization between at ease will. and so do you read the without involving palestinians? they wanted to rule the neck of the new me the east without completely neglecting the color scheme of the book. and this is where the policy and resistance fed no, we exist and we're not gonna allow you to ignore us completely why you are projecting these idea. and often you want me to leave a room and i'm really glad you brought that up because i wanted to talk about this quote unquote normalization process ramsey. they is there. is there any coincidence in the timing here?

because when netanyahu was at the united nations, he showed a map of the middle east and there was no power sign there. i mean, we picked up on that, but most of the world didn't release of the western world, didn't pick up on it. but hopefully this is a dead in the water right now. i mean, how shameful it has been for eric governments to be involved in this process. but hopefully it's been put on ice go ahead, ramsey. you know, it's, it's, it's interesting feature that up fall when every major event saucon on, you will using american terms, the who is the clear and you want me to east countries arise. declared the new with a piece of this. but just after the or do you want to be, is there any more the devastating war or live in 2006? nothing the, all a student at the united knew united nation was september or so the thing that i'm you, me, the east and now that to me always saying i wouldn't change the middle east when

with him a strike, which is really interesting. does it mean that the media hasn't really been changed? so helen and you will be the e scanned them in there is actually a forward. but what is even more interesting is the fact that we're not. we're not on the agency. we are to be a back, you will find a pass to be a strategy listening to the speech of a world leaders of the united nations general assembly in september. the position is coming from russia coming from. do you want somebody from south america coming from south africa where much stronger the most are countries? so this has been an organized activity marginalizing. it's much given a subsidy to the palestinian cause. i completely agree movie a palestine from any investments of american interest in the middle east and on us

we are involved in this 100 percent. now everybody is going to go back to the drawing board and they have to be thing that strategy. i personally think that normalization it is either at least for the source and medium terms, we don't know what's going to happen in the future. the american does say no, no, no, we're still in the works and we're gonna work on it. but we know that blinking as a banking has really decided not to go to morocco enough to will that not the so not the full run, bringing the arts together to celebrate the greatness of it as well. so the palestinians did in fact, managed to seize the rules of the game. want to be, i don't think always a coincidence, and that's why i brought up the question, well what, what are the chances this, this conflict could expand? i'm thinking about has the law in lebanon, and of course, there your country around because there please. plenty of people in the west with, you know, this is, i don't, they see this is a golden opportunity to rearrange everything. they always get it wrong. they always

get it wrong, but it doesn't keep them from trying. go ahead and cut on. yes, they always get it wrong always. and that's something that they are not going to learn again. this time around the idea, they simply think that they can change the a map and impose their will and they fail time after time. and the west is not the power. they don't have the strength and the power that they had to 3 decades ago. the united states and its allies on the decline and the existence of this rain, the regime, depends on the united states and the power of the united states. and the power of a you apartheid is only in place because the united states and its european allies health is rarely enforcing without them their health. the regime would collapse very quickly. so as the united states decline as the europeans decline,

and it's their own fault that they're on the decline, economic policies aside forever, wars, and now the war and ukraine and tensions with china. they've brought it upon themselves. so as a decline therapy hit the looking increasingly foolish when they try to impose their will on a region which is changing, which has evolved. iran is not intimidated by the united states. iran is not intimidated by the whole of nato. and then in the policy and people in gaza have shown that they are not intimidated. the palestinians in the west bank are not intimidated the people of loving on are not intimidated. so yes, this could spread. this could get much worse, because if the is riley, regime push is too hard, they're going to be smacked down. if they try to destroy garza, this war will definitely be escalade and have no doubt that with whether this really is go into cause a whether they do not go into gods

a baby last. but if they go into gaza, the receipt will be much worse. yeah, so well if you, if you believe in god and you pray at night, i hope everyone will pray for the folks of guys cuz it's, it's alarms as long struggle ahead, but it's something that is so surprise me on saturday. and i really want to think, ramsey, because he's kept the consciousness of the of the palestine penny and people alive for the rest of is good job, my friend, as all the time we have on, i think my guess in rooms seattle engines around. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, prospect the, [000:00:00;00]

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