built in road for them for international cooperation. this in stock contrast to nato as was, and jo biden's, india, middle east to europe. economic kara door unveiled as a counterbalance to china with much fanfare at the recent new daily g to at the meeting. someone who will be out of aging for him tomorrow is the same as scar, vice chairman of the built in rhode institute. he's also southwest asia coordinator at the shirts. if you need joins even still come in sweden as a and thank so much for coming on the show. i've got the, the book that you wrote a few years ago, extending the new silk road to west asia and africa. but of course, while tomorrow it may be this, the, the, the forum i'm showing kind of escaped you, that the nature nation propaganda media says it's basically a failure easily is leaving. china as partners are all in depth. china is a proper, the market is collapsing with you probably say actually that to improve again. there may be some dramatic events, success and will that be discussed tomorrow? you're going to be there?

yes. so thank you. i'll shoot for it. i mean it's my pleasure. yeah. sure, i mean, all these predictions that says when i think you have 2000, china has collapsed many times. according to these a, it was say there's uh, you know, producing china's fall and collaborative has been going on for 20 years. is not going to happen. china has a completely different structure. they can always start to another about china's own growth and development is dependent on the growth and their loved ones in the world, which is an interesting actually factor we can discuss about this. a dozen roads for tomorrow is a very, very important, a combination of a series of the segments involving mostly this global south. remember, we had the, the russia, africa. so maybe at the china africa assignment this year, we had the brakes, summits which now the boat grades, the new members a very, very significant the develop. and also the end of last year we had the china error

summit and china adult corporation council summit. now all these things involved trying to, and all these things in the quote, the bills are road initiative and it is incorporated and all these uh, developments knowledge of wanting to remind people that they've built and broke. the initiative is, i think is going to be, this was great. this, the biggest development initiatives is cold and also the depths that the we have seen this so far. i think the most important issues which will be presented, i guess is 1st of all is that, that we have another task that adverse we that, that it will be a demonstration of that she'd missed something built in about initiative the last 10 years. all the projects which were built all the developments, but also the resilience of the road in the face of all these dues, they uh, predictions that despite all the vilification and the negative media

and attacks political attacks on the road, it's increasing and membership. now we have $152.00 nation joining that, that sort of international organizations. and so the nations were outside the built, enrolled are actually today i, minority. it's important to, i think, to note that the males are rolled initiative has, is probably a new model for trash boundary international cooperation based on the comic cooperation economic development without affecting without interfering in the sovereignty of nations on the political, social, and cultural structures of nations. which makes it unique, that these nations bank, we, on certain more universally accepted principles that are related to the economic development that grows eliminating poverty and aligning the policies, coordinating the policies to reach the goal, the sustainable level,

often both. okay, but that does it by saying, is that the thing is that uh, i mean obviously nature propaganda major is not going to mention the band don't get caught a high speed rail way as they discuss the fact the inventors of railway britain gone even have a high speed railing from london to the, to the north of england. but so what do you say about the fact that the washington i may have had to bailouts or lanka? we chose china $41000000000.00. and the fact that the total bailout loans from china in between 20082021 or $240000000000.00. look at the engine team. a look at the bucket fund gone. those ambia are in default and the build mode is not going uh the way that the chinese communist party predicted it in quite a few countries as a fail. i think there is a nice thing of the apples and oranges here we have a global financial crisis and the most effective nations are the united states and your britain. as everybody comes, notice,

we have an international financial on banking system, which is not based on economic development. then growth is based on financial speculation, gambling which has ruined many nations. and now we have had a series of crises including the grain prices. that will be 19 prices, which, but many, many nations, into tosh. they can always have financial situations. this has nothing to do with china. it has nothing to do with the bit with the initiative these nations which everybody's talking about now. so we back up back to styles. i'm the many nations in africa. they have been in these difficulties long time ago. and the real death trap was actually set up before china. and the belgian roles came bumped to the seat of these nations have seen their economies being explained by the former colonial powers. there was civil wars, they were terrorism, there was the cold with 90, nobody. they say passion for these things. we did the thorough investigations,

all the cases of stories are and go back in style and zombies and the causes of their prices have nothing to do with china. china as portions about the death of these nations in 3 lock up, and that is only 10 percent on top of that, the 10 percent china is, is, is uh, as low do is read on caps is the finance infrastructure of progress will make its way 9 to come out of it surprises while the 90 percent dance incurred advisory line dev. belonging to west as private and multi level financial interest is the docs has all contributed to any growth of this. we don't get that much. it was the aspect but that debt still exists and isn't the point that the facts that uh the mill road may be succeeding and so many other countries away from all of that propaganda. we'll delegates tomorrow understand that it is in the interest as uh, the hawks in washington. see it to destroy all the progress created by the built in

rhode initiative like we've seen with the united states. it's got you imagined tina we've seen the with him run con claims and focused on happened to him and we've seen, nor the stream pipelines being destroyed by the, by the administration. so we've delegates fully understand that this conference in badging, the, the united states, the fed off the ukraine, china, that's what you grain is about. they'll destroy the infrastructure that everyone will be excitedly discussing tomorrow. well, i think the reason these nations have come to badging to turn this on tomorrow because they believe that this is an important aspect of the future economic development. and that would, you can also lead to peace if it actually, i don't believe that is indeed for us of the united states and europe. they used to destroy, trying not to destroy the bells our own efforts in their interest to promote we say, sorry to interrupt. we're seeing the european union arguably act again since economic interest. repeatedly,

as it followed the united states from one more into another, and all china ever does is a issue harsher and harsher words against you as foreign policy. we see that from the statements made by a chinese government spokesman, but you know, the united states are doing in the philippines this. yeah, it is. the chinese communist party even understand many us basis around it, left us own surround all the infrastructure projects around the world. yes, we have a very dangerous at the security and it is a situation in the world which is the because of the aggressive policies of nato and the united states. and the difference in philosophy, this is where this whole issue of the bills are owned it's, it's a new philosophy of governance among nations where it is that the prosperity of china is dependent on the prosperity of other nations, including the united states. now this is going to be a bit of a huge up table. all the governors philosophy we have have the 0 sum game that jump

political manipulations is not the interest of the united states that china and about that route sales. this is something which surprises shots, the chinese people why you're in the united states are actually doing their own interest. well, of course they don't realize that they may have certain leads into the nice stays. well, not really serving the people of the, the, all of the nations, but that's certainly special economic and financial security. but that's what the industrial is interest. this is something very important for the chinese brand. is that because every time they, they see what the united states is doing, they see why this is counter productive. why are they doing this? so we have a shift in the global situation. at the end of the day we ology will be the judge northwest, but the dishes was the trap of just talked about because they cut the realities of the comics, social and financial collapse, and cultural collapse in the west. and if you are, for example, and in the united states, this will be determining factors. and the success of china is all as its neighbors

. the aspect on space and video, it's, uh, click on all these boxes. this will improve the, you know, at the end of the day, which way the weather has to go. look, we have had this fantastic develop and with the brakes, we had the shy fault ration organization expanding more and more nations month to joining that. there was a completely new power dining international relations which those nations are, you know, hoping to join because they have lost all space and pull in these. so uni paulo world, which the united states and nasal and the you have to be. and then we don't know when the united states and do you will wake up. so that's we allergy, but the rest of the world, the majority of the global majority people call the mobile cell is moving already. but the different direction, the only thing which will stop is i come back to this, make an event such a world more, which will be followed by nuclear weapons. otherwise,

this new global economic border with china is leading russia. is there the break stations are there? the, i'll see i've got to be asia, is there a now there are countries, i won't be that direction. advertisement being direction. many companies in south america is moving that direction. nothing can stop that unless we have a global war, and we'll, i'll get to the issue we'll, i'll get to the issue or, but to me you mentioned cultural collapse, you c, l, e to control of media and culture in nato nations is so strong that many ordinary working people do perceive china as an enemy, possibly because of the propaganda or in the daily news. and of course, with the aid of hollywood, is just trying to understand how he'd not only subverts any message that you might have given just now in the developing world where america is still seeing the united states, as you'll seen as a, as progressive in some way rather than regressive it develop it,

disabilities the developing world, let alone maybe even in china, let alone the working classes alternate, 2 countries. so actually that quite unified in nature, countries on the united states, behind the model of as you see it, self destruction. yeah that's, that's what units. and he said terrible, but i think there will be shifts even in, in europe and the my space us people realize that this is not, this is suicidal but germany is doing is suicide. the german industries many german dust without leaving the country, they're moving to asia and moving to the united states. moving to the gulf countries because they find out that their petitions are the killer. and therefore they have to find somewhere else the to survive. now how, how much pressure from the population will come close to close? the political change in the united states and in europe is not clear. the elections in the united states will be very important. but i think the majority of people around the world have realized that the united states and you are especially with

the quote with crisis which they all the weaknesses of that their, their power was expelled. and now with the brain, the war even more, they suppose they are, the enable that they, these mighty powers. i'm not really able to do anything uh to, for example, defeats russia and the rest of the world. now, realizing that this is a strong man in the field of woods, this is carrie bus. it has a battery little substance. and you know, as a says that the state of affairs been but nations i look present happening in west africa as a and this gar, i'll stop you. the more from the vice chairman of the belt and rodents, huge in sweden and southwest asia coordinator. the sooner institute of this break, the

storming was intellectual. a man of i d is a great read a few as a comedy, as cheap as a mock system to our discomfort didn't really understand before she was a feeling intellectual truck. the motion, the power of these all ideological politics, rather emotionality, emotional falls, office or geology. these politics which are not able to actually rule people, all the tutorial, what the welcome back to going on the ground. i'm still here with the vice chairman of the building road institution, sweden, who said this card is a new, were about to talk about west africa with. it's been a lot of developments, obviously, uh this year against the french imperialism. but you're also talking about the

threats of global war that could stop the dreams of being talked about at tomorrow's belton road to form for international cooperation can, can the shanghai corporation organization had to built in road and replace. um, well, can it be nato, basically in the context of what you're saying about war? yeah, i don't think the chinese and asian nations of the shiny gold rush and they see themselves as a rival which have to destroy the west. they don't want to have that china has been, but yeah, i didn't mean about destroying the assignments protecting the milton or hurt initiative. as i said, as i said before, we know how they destroy infrastructure from the north stream pipelines supplying natural gas and russia to germany. every railway line, every road, every built that is created with chinese investments in partnership with developing

well the government is shortly on the threats or is this under threat, but nations are trying to protect themselves looking practiced on for example, the, the chinese engineers have been active building the class, the roads, the ports happened under at times. many, many times, many of them were killed by terrorist groups. separate. this groups weren't worthy, you know, for all the interest, but they never gave up. because this is a, as a special question for both pakistan and china. so it's very interesting because the chinese side is, is proving that really the security council on economic development. all the other way around. if you don't have, you can always develop it. if you don't have prosperity in a society, it's not the secure way, but don't using every time china. i mean, i was in damascus, interviewing brazil that's i'd be able to watch our interview and rumble. china was just making efforts to invest in reconstruction there. and the united states as allies were really bombarding is, have, as you said, impact your son. can they not,

in spite of proxies as they have in the past, the terrorists, as they're even cooled in the major nations, the, the don't get them to the thing. so aging, yeah, yeah. things are changing and looking for example, at the symbolic gesture, when the chinese president stance is own presidential airplane, to travel boards, president the shot, i saw the vision 1st lady to be to china for the summit. basically, this is a shift in this or that you cannot swenson and friends of the secuity of our friends. now these are not the allies, the chinese don't like the allies. they like to have friends. but china is, is drawing a line there with it, but they clearly threatening the security regardless of that visit to magic. because joe biden occupies a 3rd of the country there, and it has all the energy in northern syria. that's true. the reason that they are

capable of doing that is because the turkey, which is an angel member, but also have not decided which way he wants to go. and iraq is an unstable country . so when these things run these nations for starting to think about their own future, that will shift and the united states will not have people to rely on to continue this policy. look, i really don't think they have people to rely on in the leads of developing well nations who may school their own children at western business schools and the want their children to be educated in the nature of nations. they, they don't have enough in the lead. so all of these developing countries during building road initiatives that actually favor the new liberal model over the china is model. yeah. well those, those leaders, for example, and the children are being bobus thrown in west africa right now. those were loyal to france and bring the of the united states the vehicle was wrong. there's a new generation there, which is, you know, taking over low down more africans getting education in china today than africa is

getting education in brittany and the united states. china has surpassed those 2 countries already in 2018. all the fries is still at a, trying to, for historical reasons. so nations, people will send their children there and the children, actually, the china will probably to russia and other places where they will get their education in the future. because they realize that there, the west is a homeless. the only thing in the west is doing is taking advantage of them. so there is a reality we have to talk about the economic realities of nations. this is what is really the term is everything at the end. saudi arabia of the gulf countries have been loyal friends and allies of the west, but look at the ship which has taken place because those nations can no longer live with the fact that they have dependent every morning they have to look at the oil price on the tv screen, if they go to survive this month, so not dealing with $3.00 major loyal shocks in the, in this decade, in 2014,

2016 at 2020 with saudi arrived. yet the largest boiling spot was on the brinko going bankrupt. and do you know what that means socially and secure the terms? so saudi arabia have decided that they no longer going to go with the old system where they can sell oil and buy luxuries, stuff, and food, and so on. they want to become an industrial nation. and who is ready there with the engineering, scientific, technological capability to help them become an industrial nation. it is china. and that's why in the last theaters summit between china as other there's 13 major cooperation agreements and very, very important sophisticated did listen to the speech given by president. she didn't think in his stomach with the gulf cooperation, causal leaders. there are 5 points which i would like to drill people's very great right? now, i will not mention them all of the very quickly. besides, people focus too much on china wants to buy oil in the local currency and you are

from the gulf coffee from knowledge of 2060. this is very important, but further seeds are being talked about industrialization. 5, g, 6, g to communication systems, proud technology space, co operation technology in the space. training astronaut, nuclear power development, a sort of sober. so is a waste because presented, which of course, given the nature of ation, media here is uh, you know, we even showing the us bullet fissions talking about the war and ukraine really being about the future war on china. it's singleton easily talking about the fact the jo biden's in the middle east, your because a little bit closer door. imac is going to somehow, you know, make the building road in nature to have some small footnote in history. is it actually true? but it ends in perez board,

which is controlled by the chinese government. just describe quickly what this you have bite and the initiative which is being celebrated and nature of propaganda. media like the bbc and cnn actually is one of those, those bbc, us. yeah, they don't want to think about economics unless does president biden and the that was enough underlying these barriers. they don't barely go about it comics and barely go about geography. now china does not control the autopay riots. the china is operating the port out there. i is the corporation with the read government. china is not gonna imperialist country. they told me to do as boards, which was for sale. the you and the u force greece to sell the autopay is to pay his steps. china came in and developed it now trying to is also building the railways. everybody's talking about this in the middle east. the europe a parting or china is building the railways. do these been your best f o u? i did that. didn't make it into the tires and fall. i didn't make it into the news

. obviously, length of china, it was a central part of it. nor did it make any. and using the bite wings, i have to blame, change, and errors. united ever as china is involved in building that it has raised a network in china is involved in the saudi language projects. it's china build 2 major ports and these are out and $55.00. and i should do as the one i saw was okay, but what about bite and blinking is build back better world and partnership for global infrastructure investment. you're all these just pos, schemes by native nations, have helped by their propaganda media to try and attempt to, to make out basically to compete with building road. absolutely, they. yeah. you look, if you want to compete with the bills around different build, better foster railways, you should build better and more efficient power plants. you should build errors and more efficient ports on the boards, united states,

and you're unable to do these things anymore. they cannot finance them, they cannot bill, but they don't have the engineering as killed capacity retry. and that has to be these things. so this is not the way it's going to be. these are just propaganda they. this is the 7th or 8th initiative boss. it's not the 1st law and all these things are like, all the air has no substance. you know, i would, all right, well actually on the, on the other issue of not no substance have they given up on the, on this says in gen genocide story that we cover don't going underground as a, as a lie and they give it up on talking about this fake genocide in nature they, it's fading away. i call it the silly is generous sign of district because for the 1st time the victims of genocide are growing and number and the living conditions are improving. this is a very silly kind of genocide, and therefore, you know that the, even the company is worth trying to sleep shinji i, they have to go back and work it and try and i wasn't trying to reset it. local,

the big guys in the fine tech at the banking is, are, these are a big american, a foundation, european bass and compet. everybody knows it, that they want to prosper. they want to have their business, they have to work with china. now this whole situation, ukraine has, but the big problem for working was russia, but the door is still open to china. and the one of those interesting things i should mention here is that the, you know, latisha's doc live in reality when the ukraine war broke out. uh, many things parents and media and the way i said, oh mister, pointing to this. so pro, which they mean that there is this important right away from china, was processed through central asia because x style washer fellows into poland. this has become one of the most important transport batteries for the industrials on both ends in china. and you're especially the old,

the industrial and mesa office to get an industrial. now everybody was says, oh, when did they do the watering ukraine started? they said this is finished. it's got, i was almost the only my wife and i've been is study investigating the whole thing . i said no, no, no, it's not spanish. this is gonna actually continue and grow it cause you're a cannot survive without this. and therefore, they didn't dockwood sanctions on the russian and been, i was way, way and comp companies. so these are the trays continue to go from china to you from europe, to china. there was a short disruption at the beginning of the war 2 to 3 months, but it is continued that increase as i predicted. now listen to this that you are right. that's 90. percent of the rare metals used in europe come from china. how do they come in a quick way they come through this way? language goes, passes through the nose of the russians and that was in depaula. many of the rear metals i use in the on industrial you're including died. tax the

munition use in the war in ukraine against russia. all these ro, materials they passed from china, russia, 2 bedrooms and 2, your and they continued to do that until today. that's reality. reality is not determined by the dishes. you are being industrious, especially in germany, well, massive by without working with china and without keeping the door open through billers and question. this is my big argument that we have a physical and the comics. reality and politicians are not. it'd be out if you want to talk about the economics we already talked to business man. talk to industrial is how they see the thing out of things are moving between the east and west, out into the attendance. kind of the entire the, the global supply chains are. this is what the chinese that frankly gets people down to is that you cannot the couple you cannot disentangled yourself. otherwise

you are, you are committed, suicide is a nice guy. thank you. and that's it for the show. remember we bring you brand new episodes every side day monday, and until then, keep in touch viola social media. if it's not sensitive in your country and then to a channel going on the go on tv, hon. they'll come to watch new and old episodes of going underground. so you see the the, there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case of the med, most of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also absurd. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing, press 4. so the funder line likes to say, we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deal. so what should i need to be living on that we have fairly quick propaganda. you know

a price here in your i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask the better the answer is will be the welcome to also part of it. just reading and a hunger from knowledge have long been perceived as purchase and homeworks of procedures paving the way to a higher consciousness. but what if i told you that one of history's most of the tory is dictate is joseph stalin is both a developed worshipper of the highest priest of his own library. i'm sorry,

this is where she died. so and advice books and manuscripts rather than his loved ones. how did stollins lot of books informed his ruling style or to discuss it? i'm now enjoyed by geoffrey roberts managers, professor of history at the university college park. an officer of style is library dictator and his books preface a roberts. it's great to talk to you in person this time. thank you very much for your time and thank you for the invitation. now your book style is library sets out to explore the intellectual life biography. and i would say psychology of joseph stalin, whom you described as the 20th century, most self consciously intellectual dictator. and i think it's a somewhat controversial undertaking in this day and age because in order to understand the evil one needs to engage for that rather than dismiss it and condemn it out of hand. why did you decide to.