[000:00:00;00] the i'm actually under tendency and welcome back to going underground bulk of single around the world from the u. a. the entire global south is a gusty and horrors, nato, a nation. multi $1000000.00 weaponry rains down on the besieged, gaza strip. but engaging and other world is trying to be born at tomorrow's, the built in road for them for international cooperation. this in stark contrast in ages was enjoy biden's in the middle east to europe. we can only kara door unveiled as a counterbalance to china with much fanfare at the recent new delhi g to at the meeting . someone who will be out of aging for him tomorrow is the same as scar, vice chairman of the belt and rhode institute. he's also southwest asia coordinator at the schiller institute need, joins even stockholm and sweden as

a and thank so much for coming on the show. i've got the, the book that you wrote a few years ago, extending the new silk road to west asia and africa. but of course, while tomorrow it may be this, the, the, the forum i'm showing kind of escaped you, that the nature nation propaganda media says it's basically a failure easily is leaving china as partner's role in death. china is a proper, the market is collapsing with you probably say actually that to improve again. there may be some dramatic of its success and will that be discussed tomorrow, you're going to be there? yes, so thank you. i'll shoot for it. i mean, it's my pleasure. yeah, sure. i mean all these predictions that says when i think you have 2000, china has collapsed many times. according to these a, it was say there's uh, you know, producing china as well and collaborative has been going on for 20 years, is not going to happen. china has a completely different structure and it cannot be structured rather about china's

own growth and development is dependent on the growth and they're locked into the world, which is an interesting actually factor we can discuss about this. the, the role for tomorrow is a very, very important, a combination of a series of the some is involving most is global styles. remember, we had the, the russia average as long as we have the china africa assignment. this year. we had the brakes, summits which now depot grades, the new members a very, very significant to develop. and also the end of last year we had the china error summit and china adult corporation counseling summit. now, all these things enroll, trying to, and all these things in go, the bills are road initiative and it is incorporated and all these uh, developments knowledge of wanting to remind people that they've built and broad initiative is i think it's gonna be easiest ways great. this,

the biggest development initiative is cold and also the depths that the we have seen there so far. i think the most important issues which will be presented, i guess is 1st of all is that that we have another tab that adverse we've been for be a demonstration of that you missed on the built on road initiative. the last 10 years . all the projects which were built all the developments, but also the resilience of the road in the face of all these dues, they uh, predictions that despite all the vilification and the negative media attacks, but does it go by facts on the road, it's increasing and membership now we have 152 nation joining that sort of international organizations. and so the nations were outside the built, enrolled are actually today i minority. it's important to, i think, to note that the males are real data should define as is probably the new model for trash boundaries,

international cooperation based on the dynamic cooperation economic development. without affecting, without the ceiling in the sovereignty of nations on the political, social, and cultural structures of nations. which makes it unique, that these nations bank, we on certain more universally accepted principles that are related to the economic development that grows eliminating poverty and aligning the policies, coordinating the policies to reach the goal, the sustainable, the developing bowls. okay, but that does it by thing, is that the thing is that uh, i mean obviously nature propaganda major is not going to mention the band don't get caught a high speed railway as they discuss the fact the inventors of railway britain gone even have a high speed railing from london to the, to the north of england. but so what do you say about the fact that the washington i may have had to bailouts or lanka? we chose china $41000000000.00. and the fact that the total bailout loans from

china in between 20082021 or $240000000000.00. look at the engine team. uh, look at the bucket. fun gone. mozambie are in default of the belt mode is not going uh the way that the chinese communist party predicted it in quite a few countries as a fail. i think there is a big thing of a apples and oranges here. uh, we have a global financial crisis and the most effective nations are the united states and your britain. as everybody comes notice, we have an international financial on banking system, which is not based on economic development. then growth is based on financial speculation. gambling which has ruined many nations. and now we have had a series of crises, including the crating prices. that will be 19 prices which put many, many nations into tosh. they can always have financial situations. this has nothing

to do with china. it has nothing to do with the bit with the initiative these nations, which everybody's talking about now. so we talked about the stalls. i'm the many nations in africa. they have been in these difficulties long time ago. and the real death trap was actually set up before china. and the belgian roles came bumped to the seat. of these nations have seen their economies being explained by the phone with colonial powers. there was civil wars, they were terrorism, there was the cold with 90. nobody, they say passion for these things. we did the thorough investigation and all the cases of stories are and go back in style and zombies and the causes of their prices have nothing to do with china. china's portions about the death of these nations in so you lock up and that is only 10 percent on top of that, the 10 percent china is, is, is, has low do is read on caps is the finance and for aspects of progress will make its way 9 to come out of it surprises while the 90 percent. that's incurred advisory

line dev. belonging to the west of private and multi level financial interest is the docs has all contributed to any growth of this. we don't get that much. it was the aspect, but that debt still exists and isn't the point that the facts that uh and the mill road may be succeeding and so many other countries away from all of that propaganda . we'll delegates tomorrow understand that it is in the interest as uh, the hawks in washington said to destroy all the progress created by the built in rhode initiative. like we've seen with the united states. it's got you imagined tina we've seen the with him run con claims and focused on happened to him and we've seen, nor the stream pipelines being destroyed by the, by the administration. so we've delegates fully understand that this conference in badging, the united states, the fed off the ukraine, china, that's what you grain is about. they'll destroy the infrastructure that everyone

will be excitedly discussing tomorrow. well, i think the reason these patients have come to badging to turn this on tomorrow because they believe that this is an important aspect of the future economic development and which can also lead to peace if it actually, i don't believe that is indeed for us of the united states and europe, they use the destroyer, trying not to destroy the bells our own efforts in their interest to promote we say, sorry to interrupt. we're seeing the european union arguably act again since economic interest. repeatedly, as it followed the united states from one more into another, and all china ever does is a issue harsher and harsher words against you. as far as the policy. we see that from the statements made by a chinese government spokesman, but you know, the united states are doing in the philippines this. yeah, it is. the chinese communist party even understand many us basis around it,

left us own surround all the infrastructure projects around the world. yes, we have a very dangerous at the security, as it is a situation in the world, which is the because of the addresses and policies of nato and the united states. and the difference in philosophy, this is where this whole issue of the bills are owned. it's, it's a new philosophy of governance among nations where it is that the prosperity of china is dependent on the prosperity of other nations including the united states. now this is going to be a bit of a huge up table, all the governors, but also if you, we have have the 0 sum game that you have political manipulations is not the interest of the united states that china and about that route sales. this is something which surprises shots, the chinese people why you're in the united states are acting against their own interest. well, of course they don't realize that they may have certain lease. indeed we're going to be nice days. well, not really serving the people of the, the, all of the nations, but that's certainly special economic and financial security. but that's what the

industrial is interest. this is something very important for the chinese brand. is that because every time they, they see what the united states is doing, they see why this is counter productive. why are they doing bits? so we have a shift in the global situation. at the end of the day, we ology will be the judge northwest, but the dishes, what's the traffic just talked about because they cut the realities of economic, social, and financial collapse and cultural collapse in the west. and if you are, for example, and in the united states, this will be determining factors. and the success of china is all as its neighbors . the aspect on space and video, it's, uh, click on all these boxes. this will improve the, you know, at the end of the day, which way the weather has to go. look, we have had this fantastic development with the brakes. we have the shy fault ration organization expanding more and more nations month to joint that there is a completely new power dining international relations which those nations are,

you know, hoping to join because they have them lost all space. and so in these, so uni paulo world was the united states and nato, and the you have to be and then we don't know when the united states and do you will wake up. so that's we allergy, but the rest of the world, the majority of the global majority people call the mobile cell is moving already. but the different direction, the only thing which will stop isn't cataclysmic. events such a was more, which will be followed by nuclear weapons. otherwise, this new global economic border with china is leading russia. is there the break stations are there? the i'll see i've got to be asia, is there a now there are countries, i won't be that direction. advertisement being direction. many companies in south america is moving that direction. nothing can stop that unless we have a global war. and well, i'll get to the issue as well. i'll get to the issue or, but to me you mentioned cultural collapse, you c, l,

e to control of media and culture in nature. nations is so strong that many ordinary working people do perceive china as an enemy, possibly because of the propaganda or in the daily news. and of course, with the aid of hollywood, is just trying to understand how he'd not only so, but any message that you might have given just now in the developing world where america is still seeing the united states, as you'll seen as a, as progressive in some way rather than regressive it develop it, disabilities the developing world, let alone maybe even in china, let alone the working classes of nato countries. so actually that quite unified in nature, countries on the united states, behind the model of as you see it, self destruction. yeah, that's unfortunate, that is a terrible, but i think there will be shifts even in, in europe and in my space as people realize that this is not,

this is suicidal but germany is doing is suicide. the german industries many german does so exactly in the country that moving to asia and moving to the united states, moving to the gulf countries because they find out that their petitions are going to killer. and therefore they have to find somewhere else the to survive. now how, how much pressure from the population will come close to close? the political change in the united states and in europe is not clear. the elections in the united states will be very important. but i think the majority of people around the world have realized that the united states and you are especially with the quote with crisis which they all the weaknesses of that their, their power was expelled. and now with the brain, the war even more, they suppose they are, the enable that the, these mighty powers, i'm not really able to do anything uh to for example, this impression and the rest of the world. now realizing that this is a strong man in the field, i would say it's a scary,

but it has very little substance. and you know, as it says that the state of affairs been but nations i look present happening in west africa as a and this guy, i'll stop you. the more from the vice chairman of the belt and rodents, huge in sweden and southwest asia coordinator, the center institute for this break the the welcome back to going on the ground. i'm still here with device you. i'm into the building road institution, sweden who signed his car, his hand. you were about to talk about west africa, where there's been a lot of developments, obviously, uh, this year against french imperialism. but you're also talking about the threats of

global war that could stop the dreams being, talks about it. tomorrow's belton road for him, for international cooperation can, can the shanghai corporation organization add to belt and road and replace. um, well, can it be nato, basically in the context of what you're saying about war? yeah, i don't think the chinese and asian nations of the shiny gold rush if they see themselves as a rival, which have to destroy the west. they don't want to have that china, it has been, bo, i didn't mean about destroying the way from is protecting the milton or hurt initiative. as i said, as i said before, we know how they destroy infrastructure from the north stream pipelines supplying natural gas in russia. to germany, every railway line, every road, every built that is created with chinese investments in partnership with developing

well the government is shortly on the threat as it is on the thread. but nations are trying to protect themselves. look at the practice on, for example, the, the chinese engineers have been active building the class, the roads, the pores app is under attack. many, many times, many of them were killed by terrorist groups. separate. this groups weren't worthy, you know, for all the interest, but they never gave up. because this is a, as a substantial question for both pakistan in china. so, it's very interesting because the chinese side is, is proving that really the security council on economic development. now the other way around, if you don't have, you cannot develop it. if you don't have prosperity in a society, it's not be secure way, but don't you think every time china, i mean i was in damascus, interviewing brazil that's. i'd be able to watch our interview and rumble china was just making efforts to invest in reconstruction there. and the united states as allies were really bombarding is, have, as you said, impact your son. can they not,

in spite of proxies as they have in the past, the terrorists, as they're even cooled in the major nations, the, the yeah, may not get them to the thing. so aging. yeah. yeah. things are changing and looking, for example, at the symbolic gesture, when the chinese president stance is own presidential airplane, to transport, president bush outside of his 1st lady to be to china for the summons. basically, this is a shift in this or that you cannot swenson and present the secuity of our friends. now these are not the allies, the chinese don't like the allies. they like to have friends. but china is, is drawing a line there with it, but they clearly threatening the security regardless of that visit to magic. because joe biden occupies a 3rd of the country there, and it has all the energy in northern syria. that's true. the reason that they are capable of doing that is because the turkey, which is an angel member,

but also have not decided which way he wants to go. and iraq is an unstable country . so when these things run these nations for starting to think about their own future, that will shift and the united states will not have people to rely on to continue this policy. look, i really don't think they have people to rely on in the leads of developing well nations who may school their own children at western business schools and the want their children to be educated in the nature of nations. they, they don't have enough in the lead. so all of these developing countries during building road initiatives that actually favor the new liberal model over the china is model. yeah. well those, those leaders, for example, and the children are being boba's thrown in west africa right now. those were loyal to france and bring the of the united states. that vehicle was wrong. there's a new generation there, which is, you know, taking over low down more africans getting education in china today than africa is getting education and brittany and the united states. china has surpassed those 2

countries already in 2018. all the fries is still a handle trying to, for historical reasons. so nations, people will send their children there and the children, actually, the china are probably to russia and other places where they will get their education in the future. because they realize that they're the west is it homeless? the only thing in the west is doing is taking advantage of them. so there is a reality we have to talk about the economic realities of nations. this is, was really the term is everything at the end. saudi arabia of the gulf countries have been loyal friends and allies of the west, but look at the ship which has taken place because those nations can no longer live with the fact that they have to attend. and every morning they have to look at the oil price on the tv screen. if they go to survive this month. so not dealing with 3 major loyal shocks in the, in this decade, in 2014,

2016 at 2020 with saudi arrived. yet the largest boiling spot was on the brink of going bankrupt. and do you know what that means? socially and secure the terms. so saudi arabia have decided that they no longer going to go with the old system where they can sell oil and buy luxuries, stuff, and food and so on. they want to become an industrial nation. and who is ready there with the engineering, scientific, technological capability to help them become an industrial nation, is china. and that's why in the last theaters summit between china as other there's 13 major cooperation agreements and very, very important sophisticated did listen to the speech given by president. she'd just been in this summit with the gulf corporation causal leaders. they have 5 points, which i would like to drill people's very great right now, i will not mention them all of the very quickly. besides, people focus too much on china wants to buy oil in the local currency and you walk

from the gulf countries from knowledge of 2060, this is very important, but further seeds are being talked about industrialization, 5, g, 6, g to communication systems, proud technology space co operation technology in the space. training astronaut, nuclear power development, a sort of sofa. so is a waste because it says that there's a which of course, given the nature of ation, media here is uh, you know, we've been showing the us politicians talking about the war and ukraine really being about the future war on china. it's singleton easily talking about the fact the jo biden's in the middle east, your because a little bit closer door. imac is going to somehow, you know, make the building road in nature to have some small footnote in history. is it actually true? but it ends in perez board, which is controlled by the chinese government. just describe quickly what this you

have bite. and the initiative which is being celebrated and nature of propaganda. media like the bbc and cnn actually is one of those, those bbc us. and they don't want to think about economics unless does president biden and the, the most that up on the line these, but they don't barely go about economies and barely go about geography. now, china does not control the photo pre riots. the china is operating the photo guy as the corporation with the read government. china is not gonna imperialist country. they told me to do as boards, which was for sale. the you and the you force greece to sell the autopay is to pay his steps. china came in and developed it. now china is also building the railways. everybody's talking about this in the middle east, the europe a courting or trying to as building the railways do use in your best f o u. i did that, didn't make it into the tires involved. i didn't make it into the news. obviously, length of china, it was a central part of it,

nor did it make any. and using the bite wings, i have to blame change and errors. united ever as china is involved in building that it has raised a network in china is involved in the saudi land bridge projects. it's china. bill, 2 major ports in east ohio and 55 and actually and so when i sold was okay. but what about by then blinking is build back better world and partnership for global infrastructure investment. you're all these just pos, schemes by native nations, have helped by their propaganda media to try and attempt to, to make out basically to compete with building road. absolutely, they, you look, if you want to compete with the bills around different bill, better foster railways, you should build better and more efficient power plants. you should build better and more efficient ports on the airports, united states, and you're unable to do these things anymore. they cannot finance them,

they cannot bill, but they don't have the engineering as killed capacity retry, and that has to be the states. so this is not the way it's going to be. these are just propaganda they. this is the 7th or 8th initiative boss. it's not the 1st law and all these things are like, all the air has no substance. you know, i would all right, well actually on the, on the other issue of not no substance. and they give it up on the, on this says in gen genocide story that we covered ongoing underground as a, as a lie. and they give it up on talking about this fake genocide in nature and uh its fading away. i call it the silly as jim assigned a district because for the 1st time the victims of genocide are growing and number and the living conditions are improving. this is a very silly kind of dentist. and therefore, you know that the, even the company is worth trying to sleep shinji i, they have to go back and work and try and i wasn't trying to reset the local,

the big guys in the find tech at the banking is, are, these are the big american, the foundation, european bags and compet. everybody knows it, that they want to prosper. they want to have their business, they have to work with china. now these, the whole situation and ukraine has, but the big problem for working with russia, but the, the door is still open to china. and the, one of those interesting things i should mention here is that the, you know, all the dishes doc live in reality. when the ukraine war broke out, uh, many things, parents and media and the way i said, oh mister fulton kill, there's so crow, which they mean that there's this important right away from china was prizes through central asia. because x dot rush bellows into polar. this has become one of the most important transport batteries for the industrial on both ends in china and you're especially the old, the industrial mesa office to get an industrial now everybody was says, oh,

when did they do the watering ukraine started, they said this is finished as go, i was almost the only one i went and i've been is study investigating the whole thing. i said no, no, no, it's not finished. this is going to actually continue and grow because you're cannot survive without this. and therefore, they didn't dockwood sanctions on the russian and ben who's really and con companies. so these are the trays continue to go from china to you from europe to china. there was a short disruption at the beginning of the war 2 to 3 months, but it's continued that increase as i predicted. now listen to this that you are right. that's 90 percent of the where as metals used in europe come from china. how do they come in a quick way? they come through this way? language goes, passes through the nose of the russians and beloved was in depaula. many of the rear metals i use in the, on industrial,

you're including di bags the munition use in the war in ukraine against russia. all these ro, materials they pass from china, russia to better use, enter your, and they continue to do that until today. that's reality. reality is not determined by the dishes. you are being investigated, especially in germany, well, most of by, without working with china and without keeping the door open through bellows and brush it. this is my big argument that we have a physical and the comics. we ality and both of dishes are not it'd be out. if you want to talk about the comics. we always talk to business. net talk to industrial is how they see the thing. all the things are moving between east and west, out into the attendance, kind of the entire, the global supply chains are. this is what the chinese that frankly gets people down to is that you cannot the couple you cannot disentangled yourself. otherwise

you are, you are committed, suicide is a nice guy. thank you. and that's it for the show. remember we bring you brand new episodes every sunday and monday and until then, keep in touch viola, social media. if it's not sensitive in your country and had to a channel going on the go on tv, hon, they'll come to what's new and old episodes of going underground. so you see the best of both known issue, but for the mobile, when you go annual g d p per capita is about $4000.00 euros prod, software scholars in a mobile notary wants to personally of man. i may have found that across the field from where this really into totally new. so just letting them allow me to come out,

please meet your little spot. the. the single thought of unemployment is off the charts. most of us territorial integrity and sovereignty. we respect the country which enjoys financial support from the us and the who is constantly ross by political and corruption scandals. but older students don't mold over obtaining candidates status in 2022. the same wrong. just don't safe house is the economy and engagement equals the trail.

when so many find themselves will depart. we choose to look for the common ground, the the so is this all is well, probably the rough. i've bought up before. synchronizing garza with egypt security . so there's a lot the, as a huge crowd to kind of kind of be as, as being, gathering up in check, put in a template to be live live. and as of that's all in god's us a positive 2700. the us says the region is quote, on the verge of the day, even those lessons taken showed the investment, the caps cannot escape the atrocities they kill innocent people