for instagram, right now, you're at a place where because of instagram, twitter, or facebook, the international community is, it's like all of a sudden you, you post something and your pro, you know, your, your, let's say, you know, your stand with this real, you're going to get a tax from a lot of people, all you know and the comments and why and onto the side and vice versa. so i think you're getting a lot of celebrities or saying, look, you know, i don't want to see civilians dying. i think this is a different, it's a shift in consciousness because of the nature of social media, where before it would've been easy just to say, yeah, you know, go bomb them as we saw without gattis down or a rock or, you know, the previous wars and now it's like, oh wait, no, there's people in the other side of it. so maybe i can just support. i gotta be more balanced in my in my response. yeah. very interesting indeed that so in love, it's a total. so thanks for joining me here on the bottom. i can put the dilemma again. well, most of this and use our and now we were talking about the belt of road initiative in china. that's what we discussed on guy on the bottom. see that next and move back of the top of the

the the i'm actually under tendency and welcome back to going underground pool. gusting all around the world from the u. a. the entire global south is a glossy and horrors, nato, a nation multi $1000000.00 weaponry rains down on the besieged, gaza strip. but engaging and other world is trying to be born at tomorrow's. the built in road for them for international cooperation. this in stock controls teenagers was and jo biden's, in the middle east to europe. he can only car into unveiled is a counterbalance to china with much fanfare at the recent new delhi g to at the

meeting. someone who will be out of aging for him tomorrow is the same, the scar, vice chairman of the belt and rhode institute as he's also southwest asia coordinator at the schiller institute, new joints, even stockholm and sweden as a and thank so much for coming on the show i've got the, the book that you wrote a few years ago, extending the new silk road to west asia and africa. but of course, wild tomorrow may be this, the, the, the forum i'm showing kind of escaped you, that the nature of nation propaganda media says it's basically a failure easily is leaving. china as partners are all in depth. china is a property market is collapsing with you probably say actually the propaganda may be some dramatic of its success and will that be discussed tomorrow you're going to be there? yes, so thank you. i'll shoot for it. i mean, it's my pleasure. yeah, sure. i mean, all these predictions that since, when i think you have 2000, china has collapsed many times. according to these a, there was say there's uh,

you know, producing china spalding collapse. it has been going on for 20 years. it's not going to happen. china has a completely different structurally complex structure. another about china's own growth and development is dependent on the growth and they're locked into the world, which is an interesting actually factor we can discuss about this. the, the role for tomorrow is a very, very important, a combination of a series of the some is involving most the, this global south. remember, we had the, the russia, africa, some of the china i freaked out some of this year. we had the brakes, summits which now depot grades, the new members a very, very significant to develop. and also the end of last year we had the china error summit and china adult corporation council summit. now, all these things involved trying to, and all these things in go,

the bills are road initiative and it is incorporated and all these uh, developments knowledge of wanting to remind people that they've built and broad initiative is i think it's going to be this was great this the biggest development initiatives, all right, is cold and also the depths that the we have seen the so far. i think the most important issues which will be presented, i guess is 1st of all, is that the we have another test anniversary that it will be a demonstration of that you missed on the built on road initiative? the last 10 years. all the projects which were built all these developments but also the resilience of the road in the face of all these. do they uh, predictions that despite the old, the vilification and the negative media attacks, but does it go up acts on the bills are road. it's that increasing in membership, now we have $152.00 nation joining that sort of international organizations. and so

the nations were outside the built, the road are actually today are minority. it's important to, i think, to note that the milton road initiative has established a new model for trash boundary international cooperation based on the comic cooperation economic development. without affecting without interfering in the sovereignty of nations on the political, social, and cultural structures of nations. which makes it unique, that these nations, we on certain more universally accepted principles that are related to the economic development that grows eliminating poverty and aligning the policies, coordinating the policies to reach the go, the sustainable level up in bowls. okay. but that does it by thing is that the thing is that uh, i mean obviously nature propaganda major is not going to mention the band don't get caught a high speed railway as they discuss the fact the inventors of railway britain got

even have a high speed railing from london to the, to the north of england. but so what do you say about the fact that the washington i may have had to bailouts or lanka? we chose china $41000000000.00. and the fact that the total bailout loans from china in between 20082021 or $240000000000.00 look at the engine team and we'll get to a bucket fund gone. those ambia are in default of the mountain road is not going uh the way that the chinese communist party predicted in quite a few countries as they fail. i think there is a nice thing of the apples and oranges here we have a global financial crisis and the most effective nations are the united states and your britain. as everybody comes, notice, we have an international financial on banking system, which is not based on economic development. then growth is based on financial speculation, gambling which has ruined many nations. and now we have had

a series of crises, including the grain prices that go with 19 prices, which wouldn't many, many nations into hosted konami's of financial situations. this has nothing to do with china. it has nothing to do with the bit with the initiative these nations, which everybody's talking about now. so we'd like to go back to stanz. i'm the many nations in africa. they have been in these difficulties long time ago. and the real death trap was actually set up before china. and the bells arose, came bumped to the sea of these nations. how seemed their economies being displayed by this moment, colonial powers. there was civil wars, they were terrorism, there was the cold with 90. nobody, they say passion for these things. we did this all investigations, all the cases of street are and i can style and zambia. and the causes of their prices have nothing to do with china, china as portions about the death of these nations. and so you lock up and that is

only 10 percent. on top of that, the 10 percent of china is, is, is uh, as low as $3000.00 cups is the finance and for aspects of progress will make it sweet 9 to come out of it. surprises while the 90 percent debts incurred advisory lines of belonging to west, as private and multi level financial interest is dissolved, has all contributed to any growth of this. we're not getting that much, it was the aspect, but that debt still exists and isn't the point that the facts that uh and the mill road may be succeeding and so many other countries away from all of that propaganda . we'll delegates tomorrow and to scan that. it is in the interest as uh, the hawks in washington. see it to destroy all the progress created by the built in road initiative like we've seen with the united states. it's got you raj and tina. we've seen the with him run con claims and focused on happened to him and we've

seen, nor the stream pipelines being destroyed by the, by the administration. so we'll delegates fully understand that this conference in badging, the united states, the fed off the ukraine, china. that's what you crane is about. they'll destroy the infrastructure that everyone will be excitedly discussing tomorrow. well, i think the reason of these nations have come to badging to attempt this arm tomorrow because they believe that this is an important aspect of the future economic development and uh, which can also lead to peace if it actually, i don't believe that is in the interest of the united states and europe, they used to destroy a, trying not to destroy the bounce, our own efforts in their interest to promote we say, i'm sorry to interrupt. we're seeing the european union arguably act against and thinking only can dress repeatedly as it followed the united states from one more into another. an old china ever does is a issue harsher and harsher words against you as foreign policy. we see that from

the statements made by a chinese government spokesman, but you know, the united states are doing in the philippines this. yeah, it is, the chinese communist party even understand how many us basis around it left us own surround all the infrastructure projects around the world. yes, we have a very dangerous at the security, and it is a situation in the world, which is the because of the aggressive policies of nato, around the united states. and the difference in philosophy, this is where this whole issue of the bell is our own. it's, it's a new philosophy of governance among nations way is that the prosperity of china is down and burned the prosperity of other nations, including the united states. now this is going to be a bit of a huge up table. all the governors philosophy we have have the 0 sum game that jump political manipulations is not the interest of the united states that china developed our route sales. this is something which surprises shots. the chinese

people why you're in the united states are acting against their own interest. well, of course they don't realize that they may have certain leads into in the united states. well, i'm not really serving the people of the all of the nations, but that's certainly special economic and financial security, but that's where you conduct your interest. this is something very important for the chinese brand. is that because every time they, they see what the united states is doing, they see why this is counter productive. why are they doing this? so we have a shift in the global situation. at the end of the day, we ology will be the judge northwest, but the dishes, what's attracted just talked about because they cut the realities of economic, social, and financial collapse, and cultural collapse in the west. i mean, your praise apple and in the united states. this will be determining factors, and the success of china is all as its neighbors, the aspect on space, and many of its uh, we can always bought as this will improve the, you know,

at the end of the day, which way the weather has to go look we have had this fantastic development with the brakes. we had the shy fault ration organization expanding more and more nations bumped to joint that there was a completely new power diamond international relations. which those nations are, you know, hoping to join because they have them all face and soul. in these. so uni paula was the united states, a naval i'm the you have to be. and we don't know when the united states and do you will wake up. so that's what you all do, but the rest of the world, the majority of the global majority people, the mobile stuff is moving already. but the different direction, the only thing which will stop isn't that that gives me an event. such a was more, which would be followed by nuclear weapons. otherwise, this new global economic border with china is leading russia. is there the break stations are there? the i'll see i've got to be asia is there, and now there are countries. i won't be that direction. i think there's gonna be

direction many companies in south america moving that direction. nothing can stop that unless we have a global war. and well, i'll get to the issue as well. i'll get to the issue or, but to me you mentioned cultural collapse, you c, l, e to control of media and culture in native nations is so strong that many ordinary working people do perceive china as an enemy. possibly because of the propaganda or in the daily news. and of course, with the age of hollywood, is just trying to understand how it not only supports any message that you might have given just now in the developing world where america is still seeing the united states, as you'll seen as a, as progressive in some way rather than regressive it develop it, disabilities the developing world, let alone maybe even in china, let alone the working classes, often nato countries. so actually they're quite unified in nature,

countries on the united states, behind the model of as you see it, self destruction. yeah, that's unfortunate. that is a terrible, but i think there will be shifts even in, in europe and in my space as people realize that this is not, this is suicidal, but germany is doing a suicide bulk of the german industries. many german does. so exactly in the country that moving to asia and moving to the united states, moving to the gulf countries because they find out that they're below additions are the killer. and they have where they have to find somewhere else the to survive. now how, how much pressure from the population will come close to towards the political change in the united states and in europe is not clear. the elections in the united states will be very important. but i think the majority of people around the world have realized that the united states and you are especially with the quote with crisis which they all the weaknesses of that their, their power was expelled. and now with the brain the war even more. they suppose

they are the enable that the, the mighty powers. i'm not really able to do anything to, for example, defeats russia and the rest of the world. now realizing that this is a s troll, ma'am, in the field, which is carrie, but it has a battery lingual substance. and you know, it's a sad state of affairs been but nations. i love what is happening in west africa as a and this guy, i'll stop you. the more from the vice chairman of the belt and rodents viewed in sweden and south west asia coordinator, the center institute for this. right? the the

welcome back to going on the ground. i'm still here with the vice chairman of the building road institution, sweden, who's saying this guy. this is a new we're about to talk about west africa where there's been a lot of developments, obviously, uh, this year against the french imperialism. but you're also talking about the threats of global war that could stop the dreams of being talked about at tomorrow's uh, building roads for them, for international cooperation can, can the shanghai cooperation organization add to built in road and replace um, well, can it be nato, basically in the context of what you're saying about war. yeah, i don't think the chinese and asian nations on the shiny gold rush and they see themselves as a rival which have to destroy the west. they don't want to have that china. it has been but yeah, i didn't mean about destroying the assignments protecting the milton or hurt initiative. as i said, as i said before,

we know how they destroy infrastructure from the north stream pipelines supplying natural gas in russia to germany. every railway line, every road, every built that is created with chinese investment in partnership with developing well, the government is shortly on the threats or is this on the thread. but nations are trying to protect themselves looking practiced on, for example, the, the chinese engineers up in active building, the class, the roads, the boards app is under attack. many, many times, many of them were killed by terrorist groups. separate. this groups weren't worthy, you know, for all the interest, but they never gave up. because this is a, a police, a special question for both pakistan and china. so it's very interesting because the chinese side is, is proving that really the security council on economic development all the other way around. if you don't have the phenomena development, if you don't have prosperity and society, it's not the secure way. but don't you think every time china,

i mean i was in damascus interviewing president asked i'd be able to watch our interview and rumble. china was just making efforts to invest in reconstruction there. and the united states as allies were really bombarding is, as you said, impact your son, can they not to, in spite of proxies as they have in the past, the terrorists, as they're even cooled in the major nations, the, the yeah, may not get them to the thing so aging. yeah, things are changing and looking for example, at the symbolic gesture, when the chinese president stance is own presidential airplane, to travel boards, president bush outside the official 1st lady to be to china for the summons. basically, this is a shift in this or that you cannot swenson and friends of the secuity of our friends. now these are not allies, the chinese don't like this have allies. they like to have friends. but china is, is drawing a line there with it,

but they clearly threatening the security regardless of that visit to magic. because joe biden occupies a 3rd of the country there, and it has all the energy in northern syria. that's true. the reason that they are capable of doing that is because the turkey, which is an angel member, but also have not decided which way he wants to go. and iraq is an unstable country . so when these things run these nations for starting to think about their own future, that will shift the united states will not have people to rely on to continue this posit, look, i really don't think they have people to rely on in the leads of developing well nations who may school their own children at western business schools and the want their children to be educated in the nature of nations. they, they don't have enough in the lead. so we'll leave developing countries during building road initiatives that actually favor the new liberal model over the chinese model. yeah, well those, those leaders, for example, and the children are being focus thrown in west africa right now. those were loyal

to france and brought the of the united states that vehicle was wrong. there's a new generation there, which is, you know, taking all the low down more africans getting education in china today than africans getting education in brittany and the united states. china has surpassed those 2 countries already in 2018. all the fries is still a handle trying to, for historical reasons. so nations, people will send their children there in the children. actually, the china will probably to russia and other places where they will get their education in the future because they realize that there was a homeless. the only thing in the west is doing is taking advantage of them. so there is that we are going to, we have to talk about the economic realities of nations. this is, was really the term is everything at the end. saudi arabia, the gulf countries have been loyal friends and allies of the west, but look at the ship which has taken place because those nations can no longer live

with the fact that they have to attend. and every morning they have to look at the oil price on the tv screen. if they go to survive this month. so not dealing with 3 major loyal shocks in the, in this decade, in 2014, 2016 at 2020, with saudi arabia. the largest boiling spot was on the brink of going bankrupt. and do you know what that means, socially and secure the terms? so saudi arabia have decided that they're no longer going to go with the old system where they can sell oil and buy luxuries, stuff, and food, and so on. they want to become an industrial nation and who is ready there with the engineering, scientific, technological capability to help them become an industrial nation. is china. and that's why in the last year's summit, between china as other ideas, 13 major cooperation agreements and very, very important sophisticated, did listen to the speech given by president. she didn't think in his stomach with

the gulf cooperation causal leaders. there was 5 points which i would like to drill people's very clear game. now, i will not mention them all of the very quickly. besides, people focus too much on china wants to buy oil in the local currency and you walk from the gulf countries from knowledge of 2060, this is very important, but further seeds are being talked about industrialization, 5, g, 6, g to communication systems, proud technology space cooperation technology in the space. training astronaut, nuclear power development, a sort of a sofa such a waste because it says that there's a which of course, given the nature they should meet here is uh, you know, we even showing the us bullet issues talking about the war and ukraine really being about the future war on china. it's similar to easily talking about the fact the jo biden's in the middle east, your because

a little bit closer door. imac is going to somehow, you know, make the building road in nature to have some small footnote in history. is it actually true, but it ends in perez board, which is controlled by the chinese government. just describe quickly what this you have by them, the initiative which is being celebrated and they, to a propaganda media like the bbc and cnn actually is one of those, those bbc, us. yeah, they don't want to think about economics unless does president biden and the, the post it up on their lying days, but they don't barely glovebox comics and barely go about geography. now china does not control the photo pre riots. the china is operating the port out there. i is the corporation with the government trying to is not going to imperialist country. they told me to do as boards which was for sale. they use the you force grease to sell. the autopay is to pay steps. try that, came in and developed it. now china is also building the railways. everybody's

talking about this in the middle east, the your of the forwarding or trying to is building the re ways. do these been your best and for you? i did that. didn't make it into the years involved. i didn't make it into the news . obviously length of china was a central part of it, nor did it make any. and using the bible, have to blame change and errors. united area because china is involved in building that it has raised a network in china is involved in the saudi land bridge projects. it's china build 2 major ports in east ohio and $55.00. and actually as the one i sold was okay, but what about buying and blinking is build back better world and partnership for global infrastructure investment. you're all these just pos, schemes by nature, nations have helped by their propaganda media to try and attempt to, to make out basically to compete with building road. absolutely, they, you look if you want to compete with the bills in a row, you should build better

a faster way in which is you should build better and more efficient power plants. you should build better and more efficient ports and being boards united states and you're unable to do these things anymore. they cannot finance them. they cannot bill, but they don't have the engineering skilled capacity with china that has to be the states. so this is not the way it's gonna be, these are just propaganda. they. this is the 7th or 8th initiative boss. it's not the 1st law. and all these things are like, all the air has no substance. you know, i would all right, well actually on the, on the other issue of not no substance and they give it up on the, on this says in gen genocide story that we covered on going underground as a, as a lie. and they give it up on talking about this fake genocide in nature. they, it's fading away. i call it the silly is genocide of district because for the 1st time, the victims of genocide are growing a number and their living conditions are improving. this is

a very silly kind of genocide, and therefore, you know that the even companies who are trying to sleep seems young uh they have to go back and work it and try and i wasn't trying to reset it. look to the big guys in the find tech at the banking is, are, these are the big american, the foundation, european bass. i, compet, everybody knows is that they want to prosper and they want to have their business. they have to work with china. now these, the whole situation and ukraine has, but the big problem for working was russia, but the door is still open to china. and the one of those interesting things that i shouldn't mention here is that the, you know, electricians doc live in reality when the ukraine war broke out. uh, many things, parents and media. and the way i said, oh, mr. pointing to this. so pro, which they mean that there's this important right away from china was prizes

through central asia. because that style, washer fellow, who was in the poland, this has become one of the most important transport batteries for the industrial on both ends in china. and you're especially the old, the industrial mesa office to get an industrial. now everybody was said, oh, when did they do the warning? ukraine started. they said this has been a says go, i was almost the only one. i went then and it started investigating the whole thing and i said no, no, no, it's not spanish. this is gonna actually continue and grow because you're and cannot survive without this. and therefore, they didn't dockwood sanctions on the russian and bill who was really con companies . so the, the trays continue to go from china to your, from you up to china. there was a short disruption at the beginning of the warrants will do 3 months. but it is continued that increase as i predicted. now listen to this, that you are right. that's 90 percent of the rare metals used in europe come from

china. how do they come in a quick way? they come through this way away with go passes through the nose of the russians and beloved was into poland. many of the rear as metals used in the arms. industrial, you're including died, tax the munition use in the war in ukraine against russia. all these ro, materials they passed from china, russia, 2 bedrooms and 2 york. and they continued to do that until today. that's reality. reality is not determined by the dishes. you are being industrious, especially in germany, well, most of by, without working with china and without keeping the door open through bella luce and russia. this is my big argument that we have a physical and the comics reality and both dishes are not. it'd be out if you want to talk about the comics. we already talked to business net talk to industrial this

. how they see that the out of things are moving between east and west, out into the attendance. kind of the entire, the global supply chains are, this is what the chinese that frankly gets people to understand. you cannot be couple, you cannot disentangled yourself. otherwise you are, you are committed, suicide is a nice guy. thank you. and that's it for the show. remember, we're bringing you brand new episodes every sunday and monday and until then, keep in touch via all social media, if it's not sensitive in your country and had to channel going on the go on tv, hon dot com, to watch new and old episodes of going underground, so you see the the, [000:00:00;00]

the swedish nationals, i saw today the incense of brussels and was being condemned as a terror attacks media ripple as i am the suspect. open fly in the room thing just before coming of the possible employee. the u. s. is ta, this of the roof of border crossing, connecting god, that was egypt, cairo's secuity. so to tell odyssey both as a huge fan of the past inside of being gathering as a check point and then 10 to 3 devices as i speak with you guys running out of water and electricity. in fact, the gas is being strong build on it seemed at the world right now. as the last step