a slight change and whatever you do, don't want my shell stay main street because i'm probably going to make you comfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the wayne state a. 9 6 typically a medium dunbar foolish for the film with whom i used to be is grand, the 5th for the night. and it has to be a matter of hopefully selling the finding the status you most certainly stuff which is subject to the the

the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter le, about the west is all in on the side of israel. it is essentially forbidden to speak of the escalation and negotiations at this point. israel's war aims are unclear. however, if we use history as a guide, there is no military solution to this conflict. could only be a political resolution, the prospect in palestine, i'm joined by my guest, misty winston in columbus. she is a political activist as well as hosts of the miss, the winston show on t n. t radio in london. we have bruce, i cite, she is a political and social broadcaster on g. b news. and in st. petersburg,

we crossed through the house on now he is a professor at the department of political science and international relations at boston university. hard cross eyed girls and the fact that music can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, let's go to our guests in london. you know, i'm, you very rarely quote the new york times in this program because it's not enough authority. the source of information, needless to say when it comes to palestine, but they had a, a, a guest op ed that asked a very important question if not the most important question when it comes to this complex. and it's titled, does the us really want a mass expulsion in gaza? and i think that is the question here. we can talk about the strategy and tactics and all of this. but that's what it gets down to is the fate of gaza. your thoughts, please? the ultimate e, this is up to do e concerning because obviously we have like the west and well, totally involved in this as well. and from the perspective of some of the districts in great bridge, my can see how have you guys right now. i'm just my, it's functions that we do look at this is something that the increments we've been

happening for decades so such and that we know that there is a side oh, both by 10, next and yahoo, that probably want to have an expulsion of gone from a spreadsheet that then move in paul at the moment because what we know is soon as m golf products things all spelled from the non that land get occupied. perhaps this has something moved to do. we know really once we get the 2 state solution, sorry. so april, so we have mole, i'm, they can just go ahead with one state solution. no. need to, to that and the that's it. well that's where they really get the boils down to miss the i we, we had secretary of state uh, blink. and um, really hot monday, no jumping around the middle east. um uh, trying to reenact henry kissinger is a shuttle diplomacy, which apparently is failed utterly. there are no deliverables here. and he said, you know, we're, we want to set up. we're thinking about doing. we want to plan,

he's not doing any of those things for the reasons that our guests just said in london. this is a way, somehow to, to conduct an expulsion of 2200000 people and get away with it and call themselves humanitarians in the process. go ahead, misty. it's incredibly interesting to watch it play out. and you're absolutely right. i think that blinking is very clearly not gotten any kind of deliverables, anything of substance. and i think that that was probably never the goal. i think it's almost certainly the what we've just described here that they are attempting to, you know, as we mentioned this has been going on for decades. and i think of this is just an escalation of the, of the expulsion that we've been seeing, or just trying to, um, you know, wrap this up a little bit and move it along a little bit quicker. and so i think we're trying, they're, they're trying to, as you said, get these get past domains out of the north. so they'll just move in to that land. and i think uh, you know, we have people like nikki haley um, fully full throated support of taking in a 1000000 palestinians into the united states. which is interesting considering her rhetoric about immigration in general. but i think that the reason why her and

others like her are doing that is because if those policy indians come here is we'll get to take that land well hassan in st. petersburg. and there was joe biden had an interview a few days ago. i think that with cbs news, and he said it would be a mistake for israel to occupy gaza. and then he said in the same interview, and i don't know why it's hard to tell what if this guy and so you know, it is see it. so senile now is this, is it a gaffe? is he letting something revealing something he said he talks about a palestinian authority? is he talking about the p a in the west bank? cuz it sounds like they want to get my food a boss on it, on the back of it is really tank and take them to gaza. go ahead and st. petersburg as well. i would think and one day america's talk about and or surprising don't hold on because i or are launching a full scale of mid general oppression into that is taped by is or as being a mistake. i would think they are a bit talking about jo. paula tickler is so

a united states which would get you enrolled in the middle east and offers again. and again, that would start to cut the internet, demonstrate the united states and sort of disengage. want from do you pay new conflict? i mean, what does, what do you bring in the complex as it got top to? and there is a stage where the western world has lost the board. but you know, when it comes to appreciate a, an ard meeting that they have lost it if you need something as some sort of protects perhaps. but then, and this is one thing, the other thing uh, the, if the united states were to get enrolled in mid, at least in politics, affairs, and military conflicts over and over again. this would not only the tongue to tied into united states against any government in power, but it would also give china eh,

for the time to basically genuine with its economy development and making its military preparations. or would you got to potential boarding type on if they had, if they're talking about these, do a paula to go concerns in mind about what it is then and we would wish that these jewel, political concerns would sort of pretty strain. these really is from any large scale military operation in cause i and the other side of decline is israel has found a pretext on which it wants to launch a large scale military operation in gaza. but then the problem is that it would basically it would not, it be easy for you, sir, as to, to do what they want us to do. it's part of all these people from gaza is almost a sheet impossible it there. as i can see from my to but i stand and it is an

attempt to sustain, you know, all of us casualties. israel is not the country that can easily sustain casualties . and eh, they do government and in poverty would sort of explain it to the public. well, it was go back to london bush route. i'd. it seems to me that come us basically game this out. they had a pretty good idea exactly what israel was going to do, and israel is doing it, is we have doesn't have a strategy. this is all about revenge. but that is that, is it for teaching mistake? okay, and, and how mazda is a fully aware of this, and they know that, um, at a certain point there is, has belong in other regional players that will react. i don't know exactly what no one does, but this is the model understood what they were doing and i'm not. i am not covering for her mouse and her mouth about a fighters if they committed atrocities in israel,

they should be held accountable for like is really should be held account for atrocities. go ahead in london. the ultimately, i think, you know, this is a very complex political placement right now as well. and i think from also ways e e. so where that very this illusion about 2 state solution that saudi has been in discussions with jordan and with the usa. and with israel, because ultimately since 2009, when and benjamin netanyahu even endorsed the 2 state politics that he would discuss that they have still been occupying pulse of palestine pulse of gaza. so this will, it's an illusion. and so maybe from himself know the actually there is a honesty and they said the truth is the house that trap what sets up israel has been led into a and so both of them are playing the game that they want to play. ultimately i believe that she's take solution is an illusion. there is another thought to definitely do. well, i think there might, there might have been it one time,

but dear, that was a long, long time ago. and let me go back to miss e in columbus. i'm glad this was brought up here. the 2 state solution with joe biden said, joe biden, when it was viable. joe biden was a young man. okay. when it's that, that's how, that's how ridiculous this is right now. there is no 2 states solution is really never wanted it and what they wanted is to cobble up as much wine as they can. and they want to do it all over again with gaza, misty for sure. i think of the 2 state solution as, as long gone. i think that there was a time when that was maybe a possibility. i think even a mazda, they agreed to the 1967 borders. my dad say they did, they did. they didn't want to recognize israel, but they were willing to accept those 1967 border. so i think that that was a possibility at one time i think it was always very tenuous, but i think that we have long since passed that that window of opportunity. i think that there is no way that, that especially given everything that has happened over this past week, i think that there is absolutely no case for that to be made whatsoever. so i think

that we are certainly looking at a, as you said at the very top of the show, this needs to be a political solution. this needs to be, you know, something that is not military. there is no military solution for this. i think that we've seen that play out over decades and we are either going to see the bombing to continue in the desk continue. or there's going to be a political solution that somebody in acts and just think that that's going to be a one state solution where everybody has equal rights. and that's the plan, and it's been for a very long time, but you have to have willing, honest players to do that. and we don't, in this case, you sign, it seems to me, it seems to me that a mazda is willing to commit suicide to save the palestinian people inside. and over statement was difficult to tell whether, how much cultures that basically created to try to re, certainly into um, to basically keep the policy need uh, ship palestinian resistance. um, uh, clunk, chest, one way or do ally, one way or the audit,

or whether actually how much actually test it. it's a new capabilities that it has over the over the last few years. it quite is difficult to say, but what it is, is it for israel work to go in to guys in the into way. we are all expecting done. then you turn into into the big truck parties. are there is no question about it. but at the same time, the problem is, and the policy new question lingers on, how are you going to solve it? you know, he's was easy for all those states to basically uh, to uh, at 2 to 2 state solution to, to yes, it would be better, but you would have to have and you certainly government really willing and serious in good faith negotiating a settlement today. all the more on who's, who's i'm sorry or a suffer,

a military defeat. that is the only way that is going to happen. goodwill. why the money? i mean, if you're going to such a military defeat, done, we're going to have to wait. okay, we'll have to wait and we're gonna have to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on palestine state without the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're so short or is it conflict with the 1st law? show you our event as a patient. we should be very careful about visual intelligence at the point, obviously is to makes a trust rather than to the various mean with artificial intelligence. we have somebody in the team and the

robot must protect his phone. existence was on the need for monday on uh, getting back to the stuff. yeah. maybe gonna use the fixture or take your say about that 100. no, that's in the 1200. i lied to you on this, this guy suddenly. ok, now i need the news, we need to get you started with us. us produce side is sick and one on us she's, i'm the mother the lot more you into now i'm out of this. go to you know, send the most. i still equal to what do you guys who do i equal to the soon to show the 1st of all to check and most of them with us and it's coded. it's due for quite a while. so who shall handle close to the also

steals office childers. things the the welcome backs across stock were all things are considered to mind you were discussing palestine. the okay, let's go back to our guest in london, another one of the burning questions. when everything is said and done, i mean this conflict will come to an end at some point. i truly believe that it has a her rip, it costs for civilians and everyone all around. this is absolutely tragic here. but who will rule gaza?

see this is i think this is where i think um um blinking and others are trying to find a way where are you they can continue the open air prison. just have the they need a more amenable present more your thoughts is quite full. so one of the discussions that we're having here with the case is about the moral high ground alexis faithful. these discussion, the israel at the moment, fold the model, 5 rounds of the number of the as the day told it increases as mo palestinians died effectively. and they all going to lose that. and even though we are going to see, you know, of them claiming that they all do at least to defend themselves. uh, you know, mean some, some people when he greeted us what they want to do, but essentially they will lose that and they will not hold them model high brand. so i think at that point it's going to be turning point will kind of thing in people, and then that will establish who is going to run at garza. i'm kind of point cuz even at the moment i don't know. but i certainly know that they all do thing

a lot of space globally. i think, pete, oh yeah, maybe. yeah. what's going on? oh, absolutely. yeah. that was one of my questions, and i think that a, no, you can have western capital is throw all their support. they want, as i said in the top of the program. but if you look at the protests all through europe, i mean that they are not reflecting the government whatsoever, and they should have been expected. it should have been very much expect that, you know, miss the, one of the very odd situations that were there, the world is facing here is that are up to at least 500 nationals in gauze. so that how foreign passports, many of them from the u. k, the united states, what about their lives? they are of any value whatsoever. i don't see anthony blinking talking about those people. i don't hear the british government to talking about their own nationals as well. this for, it's a man, a real quandary because as you know, who has the moral high ground go ahead, misty. know you're absolutely right. and i think that we've also seen the israeli officials a, you know, they,

they very clearly do not care about those people or the hostages that have been taken. and i think that that's why they don't, in my opinion, they do not hold the moral high ground at this point. i think that we have seen the support for israel. i think that they're very cynical campaign of labeling any criticism of the as really government is anti semitic. i think of that is very much lost its effectiveness and i think people are starting to see through that charade . and i think since the internet burst onto the scene and in particular, i think since social media really became a galvanizing force, i think that we have started to see public opinion shift on this issue in a huge way. and i think that the protests that we've seen over the course of the past week are certainly indicative of that. i think that around the world, i think that the people recognize who the oppressor is, who the oppressed is, regardless of what the current situation is. and i think that that's, i think, i think that's why we're starting to see a little bit of desperation. in my opinion from is israel. i think they realize they're starting to lose that information more. and i think that that's something that they're trying to contend with. yeah, that's why their favorite weapon is censorship. okay. yeah. and i know a lot about that about having the wrong thoughts. okay. so let's go back to you in

st. petersburg it. let's look at the players on the ground. do we have a mouse? we have has the law, we have iran, and collectively they are very powerful, but when each one of the mac separately, they're not as powerful. that's why i think it has the laws role, and this will only grow because if a mazda is taken out, then has the law is weakened and a ranch view of the region also. so do you see them working collectively together? because if there is any, any real form of an ethnic cleansing has blah has to react, it simply has to go ahead and st. petersburg as well. i agree. and in the case of a whole scale moscow, all the guys on paper, you know, all the hartford pictures streaming, auto, gaza. i would think and it would be impossible for his beloved to remain at posse phone. look at some stage they might are getting moved and we all know is

below are, is much more capable of conducting a type of welfare that has created against these radio and you know, the military conflict. and he does it being able to repel any israeli attack on hasn't the law. and the last one was in the 200-2006 and as belie gain managed to inflict heavy casualties on these trail and pushed israel back. and since then, i think they have been already all being in every sense and there they keep saying that they are a ticket and then what size critique any part to be 0. i'm whether or not this would actually happen. it would largely depend on what the strategy does in gaza, i would think and, and how basically,

how much would calculate the pros and cons of entering the concept. but whether the united states would also get into the conflict and bomb as well as belie, put positions together with israel. and whether they would uh, data or intervention uh, would make a great deal of impact on the israel position or on whether they would actually push almost back and push it as well out back. it depends on a lot of things, but the view um the problem, what would what lie we did on you know, the time you all was seems to one the basically take the matter comes together with israel. uh, you know, come paying against it all. well yeah, that's it. that's what it seems to me to let me go back to london. yeah, i'm glad this was brought up so many yahoo once the americans to attack it ran

during all of this and they will take care of, of gaza. which of course, in a lot of circles in the united states and the foreign policy blog, they would love that because nobody will be talking about the power city and somebody just talking about how they've gone after the movers. that's what they're thinking. but i absolutely believe that if the us started attacking has blog around has assets all through the region, the american military bases would pay a very high price. go ahead in london. oh, absolutely. i mean, lots of people have been discussing it to say that based as well, israel wants, they ultimately want us to back then. and if it gets to that point, i do genuinely believe that it's going to be a catastrophe. if it gets to that point, we are going to have has the law who are not actually going to defend garza, they are going to do that the project to go off. as we see that international rules are brokerage has the level have no choice but to intervene. and the people cannot underestimate the power they had the law had right now. you know,

people are discussing about, you know, mission, how many weapons we have had below it. what we've seen happen would come off with how much to do a in comparison, they pay to high school. no, no, the ultimate is going to go down the road of iran. i will say police a 5 and isn't going to it back. that's why they need not going to buy. that is why we see him slowly back track. he's now say you need to de escalate. this cannot extend, but it seems like they were internal politics between now and yahoo and by then. but we'll say don't see. so they, on the, on the same page i, the, i genuinely, really bad. yeah. well, you know, is the bag, the dogs, you know, that's, that's always been the situation here. you know, you know, missy, um i, i usually don't talk about domestic american politics here. but don't mind is down in the polls, nobody will critically likes them. the economy is not doing well. he's got some family problems if he a know what i mean. and his war and ukraine is gone nowhere. it's been a boon dog. oh, my goodness,

a new opportunity is on the horizon because he was even when he was vice president his relationship with nothing. yeah. who was very poor. i was poor during the 1st part of his administration year. and now he has an opening. is this, it appears cynical, politics, misty? i certainly don't put it past them. i mean, i agree. i agree with you completely. i agree. i definitely don't put it past them . i think that we've seen this time and time again. any time a president happens to be in trouble in the polls or, or without approval leading number, there's always that war button that they can push to kind of boost themselves. and i think that we've seen kind of, you know, the shadows of that. we've seen the ukraine situation, i think was a great example of him trying to bolster his numbers. that obviously didn't work out in his favor. but we've seen him and we just recently gave an interview or where he was asked, can we handle towards the same time? and he's like, yeah, we're america, you know, like word for the most powerful country on earth. and he's trying to, uh, you know, create a sense of strange, create a sense of leadership. i just don't think that it's going to be enough. i think, as you said, he is already so far down in the polls already. his,

his presidency has been kind of a nightmare and really a and effective on so many friends. i think the people are really fed up in particular. i think they're really fed up with these continual and non stop or so i think that while this may have worked in the past, i'm a little bit skeptical about how it would be effective here. it don't go into 2024, but we will see, we just see what while mr. you mean, you know, he is go back to tony blitzkrieg, the secretary of state. okay. i mean, so he oversaw the evacuation of couple he's hoping to solve this ridiculous war and ukraine. and now he's could it be henry kissinger really? okay. it says these people are so out of their depth. let me go to a side because we're running out of time here. as on. i think the region for the most part. now what makes it different now is that they're not as afraid of the united states as they used to be. do you agree with that or that some of that? oh yes, definitely. because um, but with the emergence of multiple out of it, i mean you can see lots of countries changing data or traditional positions. but

for the multiply to, we could have hardly seen it on and so did a b a and do called photo countries, basically normalizing data relations. but for multiple large games, we could hardly have seen catchy and cutting a balancing act between nato and russia and other powers in the world. so there multiple r 8 days going to play, he's going to impact on demand. least try great to expand and at any us involvement in the way we are describing would be it would turn out to be a terrible mistake. well, if it's, you know, in closing here, i think it's, it's, we shouldn't really reflect upon the fact that it took the start of this, of this conflict in there. and again, no one should be given a pass for atrocities. but it, it took such a tragic event for the world to remember that there are people suffering in,

in palestine on the go because of the strip. all of a sudden we have to remember them. we're being forced to be moral people. again, that's very, very difficult. in the west and i think that, you know, as this plays out here, we have to remember with the tape of moral compass and speak out for people that have no power. and that's exactly what i'm trying to do on this program. and all i know, i appreciate all 3 of you participating in that. that's all the time we have one, i think my guess in columbus, london and in st. petersburg. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are key. see you next time. remember across on the the, i didn't even him dunbar was for the film

with whom i used to be the grand a fit for the night. and that is for ease of being adequate to sell in the final part of the status and most recently stuff which is set to the by the middle of the 19th century. practically the whole of india had been under the rule of the british and by the colonial authorities that impose that heavy death, bringing the people into poverty exporting natural resources. and moreover, these authorities absolutely had no consideration for the physicians of the local

population, treating them like 2nd class citizens. the british were showing signs of disrespect even to those and cooperated with them. the facts of ignoring the religious beliefs of the hindus led them. you may have, as the voice, mercenary soldiers serving under the british ground. 3000000000 began on the 10th of may 1857 in the garrison town of may river, north of india, the form of abuse. the rebels quickly took over daily that he rode the resistance of the indian people lasted for one and a half years. however, the forces were not equal for the colonial authorities dealt with the rebels, cruel, late fee and slaves. the boys were tied to the mouth of the cannon and were shot right through their bodies for the amusement of the public. these type of execution was called the devil's with the obliteration of them, you may result the death of 800000 inhabitants of the indians. however,

the british empire never broke the free spirit of the indians and their will, will resist the printer such as good jen. it's going to define anybody want to deal with someone, chris, cham, newborn on that sort. so the cut down for the effort is a good idea, assuming she has a better that's um what, but right. but she still started for you. what the school does because that's the way it's what i didn't do the able to. but our success am i shouldn't but it was, it said you forget you expected you what.