close us along the way, it's nearly half a 1000000 jobs being created. an almost 40000000 people have been lifted out of policy. the be all right to date remains unchallenged. not just in terms of the amount of money invested, but how it also is development without demands to fund in 9 on ideology, somebody from the developing country said to me, what we get from china is an airport. what we get from the united states is a lecture. so hey, we all on our part of students in the middle of nowhere. so again, it's not to be a great one of china for nothing. and the names, not just testament, put from monumental size. this right here is a symbol of telling us longevity of bits, enjoying ambitions on success in connecting nations and of its historic role in the facilitating of economic prosperity. not just for one, but for many,

a much more news, telecom here on our to international in the meantime. be sure to follow us and social media including x and telegraph. the voltage of was a part and take it off to the end of the cold war. the man who made it possible mikhail gorbachev bitterly remarked that the opportunity to build a new one photo was welsh because the air, when he was president, just has to have a war. he didn't leave to see the current conflict in ukraine, but isn't

a new world order finally shaping out due to the use of force by russia. we'll discuss that. i'm now joined by rain miller, some professor emeritus told him university. i'm a former advisor to me, code guard by charles on issues of international law. professor miller's and then it's great to talk to thank you very much for being available. happy to be with you . thank you. now you've written before the professional it base you have had 3 different lives being born and raised in soviet era. estonia then moving to moscow to get to your doctorate in law and then moving all the way to kings college, london and teaching there for quite some time. and that gives you a very inverse of tile exposure to various systems through various ideologies. and what i find very interesting is that, unlike many other public intellectuals of your generation,

you are open about the of all i'm accepting about a parts of your professional life, isn't it? i'm safe, at least in the west to be you know, so open about your connections, historical connections with russian. i have benefited from it professionally sure, which they have. because how you have at least 3 different viewpoints from which to outside of the world as towing in a small country, one well was pro a top and then a rough shop. when i went to rush, i was taken to the army. i didn't think it was the soviet union, the soviet union in moscow. i was on the actually a very good one if i jump up even. and so i stage in boston code to come there. and when i finished my gallery, i went to moscow university. i graduated from zillow, the department, i was lead ways to get past that interesting size, or as well, you went all the way to as one point serve as a,

as an advisor to the president of the you, i'm sorry. yes, it was at the end of the 1980s replicate the beginning of the 1996. exactly. and then i went back to is tonja being the 1st deputy, 40 minutes down for a while is 40 minutes to even and on the, when the i watching while i to, to london is a little effect on the weeks as a centennial, a profess. so that, let's see, i went to london and states they have hope for my wireless printer. yes, i taught now that's a period of a very cosmopolitan life, which many of us experienced has ended a couple of years ago. but i know that in 2019 before it actually ended, you received the order of friendship from the hands of none other than vladimir put you in. i'm sure uh that kind of association may have cost to some personal or

professional relationship. and certainly you can, it is, it must have become a liability after yes, i said 2000 granted to the dispatch of my life to any, to ask you in me a lot of professional moments to see the world from different and go us. but yes, i have lost friends uh on this way and it is not easy even in their family with my son, sometimes we have cool. it brought up in the they ok it okay. do they ok. we have to front that i have your we have friendly of cause, but i have lost that because of a so i have not have all tail of friendship. for example, i know we specially because of that are you, i'm not condemning ah, one sided lee about adoption, the innovation over the you're not the embracing. if you are, because now you've been pretty critical of some rushes actions, which i hope we can talk about. but before that, i know that when you received the order, you said that international law,

which is your main professional subject international law, as we know it could not exist without the russian. ironically, 40 years later its validity is, enforceability is indeed being called into question. do you think international, more as a universally accepted and upheld set of norms? does it still work? it does it even though i believe international lawyers know booley crises varies with crises to you in the every domain of international relations. i'm domestic that fast as well. but international law has come up, i hopefully for a while by the task because international law and a jordan to this for the presentation. when i was doing this, i ought to allow us to have that why abstract. because international law has a been based on the balance of power by himself in just the power

a special live. but this balance of power to be out in the world, into 19 ninety's. so there was no a one to balance the american power. they're both within food or the end. and so if they, by chance of for a kind of the world to removed from the warm center, it is now called the aerospace international court interest. yeah, yeah. so essentially, this phrase conceptualized what was in the works for some time, even before that because i think it's mostly divided administration that is using it very actively. they never, ever use international law anymore. no, no. oh, you know, it fussing into 1990 is when the these dimensions of most of western countries in africa in latin america, sometimes they buy low food. sometimes they with

a low food for i. so it was in 1999 when a nate to body the so it'd be over the cost of up then uh off to the face, just interesting that off to a they to, i will. then there was a international commission under the stuff that, you know, of the united nation created and they phone date. so you to interesting a that the war was you, lee coke, but really cheap. so this was such a clear, a reference that to something he's prohibited by international law throughout high videos like panels and news, which can be protected even against international law. international law both set aside many uh, also uh, instances like the creation of international premium. they'll have quotes and which

as if they were effective and impartial, this would have been if there were also a i will come on, but i missed a reference number. there's a impartiality presupposes equality. i mean, and if for suppose is the law, i mean, i think that's the basis of the very poor decision of the old, is that what makes it a lawyer is that it gets applied to everybody when it's applied selectively? can you claim that it's still law? it disappeared all most, but during the these 19 ninety's and then figured off a war and it was 2003 which brought to all sold lee code and a, by the way, it is interesting guy. i'm leaving him that you ok and the legal profession has been all the ways very uh, just pick the, the partial and the international lawyers into for you and office. again. they

have the assessment of, uh, this, the integration of your arc in to phone street. and they all declare that it was a leak. but now things have become different even in the country where their own, the flow boss really respected was whether the whole point of difference. very often teams respect international you mention many wars that the west initiated and fox. so theoretically speaking, uh, people in the west know that were exist. why do you seeing there so much unnerved by this conflict with the russian because they have been exposed towards before to conflicts before? yes, it is so that maybe not really a very good question to introduce the most important question. why

such a different reaction? for example, what the, the iraq innovation of telephone, the 3 of us called a shop count or a better each and a. so there was no shopkins or in europe, there was a disrupt and or in the yes, i have to put compartment and so on all of a i've mentioned, all right, the there will now, i guess to be out so high altitude football, it meant no boots on the crown of the rock, which was a bit different, but all started with high altitude of boardman. i don't think that it is only because it is in your and say a full of all costs closer. it is also that somebody has said, charlie's the them, the power of the united states and collect the file west and

they have full ease on that except about so really on the other changing shoes where mine the ones that and now we do so as i see already is a challenge and i believe they are for the very end up proper. com diabetes. or, of course the effective you know, in other similarities with the soviet union, perhaps. now professor miller's and we have no propaganda, but we have to take a very short break right now. we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. the i. 9 6 didn't even even dunbar foolish for that still and was so obviously being that you were on the 5th for the night and that it was for even

be a matter for, for the selling the price part of the boat status. you most certainly stuff which is up to the extra was a parts with re miller. some of the tests are meritus as a tell him university professor mallerson. and when you were receive it and receiving that border of friendship from the house of pleasure, may i put you on. your also said that that period is in history of the unit

polarity, of the united states, appointing itself as the indispensable nation was a fairly anomalous and temporary phenomenon in the history of international relations. but the americans, i clearly know giving it up without a fight. and i want to ask you how far do you think the current confrontation between the west on the one hand and rush of possibly china possibly some other uh, disagreeing countries. how far do you think if they go, i believe it will co, a white default, and a, it is a attendance it which will continue for decades at least, and maybe even longer. but i who and even the dc. so i hope i hope so that the equity phase tells confirm based on these specially in your, in the will of the end. well then the earth future which kind of cease fire and

make compromises. but, but i the new world order. if it the purchase of some kind of force or humanities, of course, but i don't think that it will be the this, uh, uh, world where that there will be a peace between all the countries. uh, there was no. was there, there will be, uh, uh, in my opinion, uh, they collect the west the about the list and then the rest to like out outside child. and i either on eating the african a countries who are not uh, fully english, to collective uh what, so i said, i don't want to spend the full boss a very think distinguish a big dish, a diplomat. and i could tell me who wrote that no power, who has had an opportunity to tell me in the 8 as failed to tell me, enables you to may be one of the ions,

laws of international relations of geopolitics. therefore, it is, has been natural, probably that to the right of states wants to come to you to, to meet the world. and there was, this would be somebody who brings to census, uh they said, a super follow up because what's at is an operation. i believe and in the beach i you also mentioned is that when the pizza go mean a theater the world, it was not the who will but what, what the he said now if there is only one impact what pow wow yeah. the what one center which wants to donate this isn't that bad racially. that's never been. uh so with that, somebody a who would have told me that it is that who what the, what was the real is that where you just don't, i don't even have the domain names, but also they want everybody to be,

it becomes like memory comes to having the same value of 17 both not only the interest but the value is also the professional movers. and for that to happen, you know, a nation has to have enough resources because domination is not good. it brings you not only advantages, that's a huge liability. and one of the reasons why the, here's the sorry, didn't leave so long as it's wanted, it was because it's simply couldn't deal with all the mounting, domestic and external pressures. how do you think that is this thing that this is something that the west takes into account, that it simply doesn't have the capacity neither mental nor financial capacity to impose its will either through military force or through soft power on the rest of the world. because it can, you imagine somebody, uh, even if they were in the american washington talking like, you know, oh i,

but they say football is the, is this, i mean, lucky for you, just counting on what you liked it, then the, the to be elected. you have to maybe, you know, america, yes, they really made competencies because they have overstretched. the but now it's at the left. okay. just on a recently yes. having 20 or 20 as a lower the government is about to shut down because they don't. yeah. cannot pass the bad up but yes, but they can still the because of having got all the stories of color and see if they use guns to uh, exploit the country's, uh, uh, both sanctions, i guys, they own allies in europe even. so they come to somebody probably, but how long could convey so i don't know, maybe they also of, of probably is a soviet union call up because of defense and know the one that is of a stretch and have dentist on it and so on. but about 5 to they cannot make system

was wrong in new fact. and also there was so many different be a nation, say a warranty to have the independence of. so we'll say, and by the way, we have the same phenomena among the american know the american olives because you have so dear randy, you have turkey or have a number of other countries or not striking out directly to go to the united states, but quite often go against the american, the wishes, especially, let's say the saudis will have the resources. i'm getting a lower pretty. you know, i'm the bedframe. oh, i do therefore know you every, especially now freak that uh, in uh, from separate guys, uh, to french. uh, uh, globally, that they uh, use this opportunity that the of, of outright is fighting for its independent type a place in the world. so they all so full lloyd,

and this is probably very dangerous for them to play the fuel if they're not in states and europe in leaders in france like my crawling these very much water. a couple of what the about the, the, i don't see you that you with call up soon as that so like that this will get junior on but, but maybe her in the future. they also had a tried to lead me to the patients in the nation of the world. they, i try, you know, to have allies in the they have, but also, you know, a sounds like a china. this is the most uh, maybe uh, important concern for them are you there boy, in the ukraine has and deflected they had to in some the slight plate have from me and we focus on that for a, for a, for a moment because you, you need to call

a restless military operation and you're creating a possible geo political miscalculation. but when it comes to international affairs, i think it puts many countries in a position when they have to choose fairly carefully and you know, way, the american pressure or pressure on one hand that own resources that own trade ties that own jewel political, a policies on the other hand, then many are choosing lots 1000000 dependent cars, but at times that is far more dependent then it was a year and a half ago. wouldn't be fair to say that a cynical is it is because of the loss of life on both sides, that multiple arrow to you is actually being held by the russian operation in ukraine. yeah. the american pressure when i say that this may be a right, but your political discrimination, 1st of all of cause you to have threats you at the bus and eventually because, you know,

i haven't lived in that after i did you creating the and many times also i have friends in to upgrade, and therefore i didn't believe that the, they have more and they're both the stock between the ukraine them. why don't you believe? i mean, look, it's a very interesting question. not, not. i wasn't believed. i'm also i have the last name, but shouldn't we allow for that possibility the, for the you said the exactly. so because in my articulated 2014 ukraine victim over to you up only to keep us published in china, the chinese general international lawyer and white people. oh, deep now or so they are, it was too warm that like cause it will, will between the georgia and the restaurant. they may be, i will be read the ukraine and at our shop. so it was

professional approach. and i, i might be a voting to box the carter and c. i a different direct that who uh he and his last book it uh he read you as a produces uh his uh, email was took on police uh price where he was that acceptance offer for ukraine. georgia to nate will may lead to in the, um, conflicts. so g 4 seats uh at these. and i would say uh, one higher level of sonya and petitions. uh, i do. i am not naming cases, but how good for him. but uh, so we have the conversations recently, and he told me that he had told united for a tooth on that 49 to not be 191420142 the american on by southern is tonja that nato membership for ukraine would be

a red line which means the domain is either some people use a, this is still an invalid, decent id believe because the 2 mainly we didn't want to, we at where engine as i do now, are you professionally g s, i believe, based on uh, i as an academic and also practitioner of international law, east west for see about that he maybe happened as a so on but uh each bus sold with that as human beings who we didn't want to accept . or yeah, of course, because as you saw, that's a huge, huge tragedy. now um professor miller's and in my introduction i reference mikhail gorbachev to whom you served as an advisor on international law. and the time when he was, i think, the 1st and only president of the ussr, and he was a strong believer in peace. but he defined it as not unity in similarity,

but the unity in diversity in the comparison and conciliation of differences. do you think that kind of piece is still feasible between the rush and the west and a saw? what would it require looked into the future? i don't foresee things, i have a come to the file and it is not only a julio bluish, but not a company which checks you propaganda as it is now with the monetization of the, in the me as an authorized human being get actual exactly what we saw in the run up to the 2nd hold you're by the way. yeah. and that they, they are for the it is very difficult. uh to change the mindset. okay. yeah. we've been wrong. no. oh yeah. oh we ref. return to this drawing board or do i of that 9 to the i just have to go there. i mean, like,

it's hard to come back to the original point to business as usual, but do you think it's possible that both russian, that was the real estate, it will say it's very dangerous where we are, is very dangerous. can we just stop here? no, go back, but stop where we are. the 1st of all, it is necessary to have at least a ceasefire in ukraine and to talk to start talking, maybe talk cycle we can go on at certain levels. so i hope that has very some information on that, but then when it comes down productions are talking to each other about to even then if uh, this will not and, and have a kind of compromise to is a phone a then of such a peaceful, a world europe from a board, you'll go to, why do i stop go?

well i, i don't think that a piece for them in the sense of i shall also has done to the ease of this mean so that the, the, so a come on your up in home, which of we check all by show for spoke uh then it is not possible into yardage georgia, i'm not saying what, but maybe in the many to at decade see it would be possible hopefully. but as a my last article, i say that was, has changed a lot since the pull up in east and boy, and a and more speed to info show and at greece then. but the, for the, for curious with to see did is to the pull up in east and boy and daughter, and i'm the books a ford recently original. and now they of this conflict many things the

same that acknowledge has changed the oh that, that's true of what people think as athenians, a thought to when they impose to the they. uh and i have your daughter, the creek, city states and so on. things haven't changed, the human nature doesn't change, at least in the aspect of every nation and diversity with being the desires, dignity, and respects from others. and that's, i guess the main precondition for any lasting piece. we have to leave it there and but that's been great talking to thank you very much for that. thank you for that kind of interesting conversation and thank you for watching close to sarah. yeah, it was a part of the,

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the, the disturbing images from palestine authorities, their site is real, a tax, a mosque in the west bank and the market and gaza us killing a number of people as a decimal mountains. women and children have paid to the heaviest price. when i mean to know that my children and i were sleeping when the rockets in our house, we got out from under the rubble, the weren't any resistance fighters in the area, only civilians, me, my wife and our children. none of us have anything to do with the resistance, with the ideas ground operation looming closer as rarely families are morning of loved ones killed by how much you deal with the pain. do you need to live with the thing? and that's what we're doing and it's the data to the thing and it's very difficult