and i pray that victory comes soon and i believe it will, the the hello and welcome to cross stuff. were all things are considered on peter live out . the western world is given is real, a green light to exact revenge in the wake of a mouse as attack on october 7th, and doing so. the west is made it clear international humanitarian law. and the rules of war are subjective and arbitrary. some lives for more valuable than others, [000:00:00;00]

the cross talking palestine, i'm joined by my guest, ryan christian and franklin. he is found are an editor of the last american vagabond and the host of the daily wrap up inside. and we crossed the site. yeah, so to raleigh, he is assistant professor of political science at the institute for humanities and cultural studies. and in budapest we cross the jordan, samuel, we, he is a pod cast or at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. are gentlemen cross our goals and effect, that means you can jump any time i want you want and i would appreciate it. let's go to the professor in into that, and i'd like to read you a fragment that uh, and it was uh, stated by the secretary general of the united nations, apparently, well, what i'm about to read is very, very controversial. i want your thoughts. it is also important to recognize the attacks by how miles did not happen in a vacuum. the palestinian people had been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation. is there any errors in that? those 2 sentences there because i've read it about 50 times and i don't see what's

wrong with it, but apparently the, the of the people, the powers of being the wes thing. this is an atrocity in itself. go ahead and put on the, i think what is going on and guess is that is there and is preparing for a land invasion. and i want to ask you this question of why is the expert paying for line vision? and by the degree like you mentioned, is being given by the western leaders to desire to engage because a, a transitive question. be sure to get the operation alleged are strong from these right point of view. first of all, you have experienced an unprecedented instead of just failure, of seeing as could successfully hide or phases of this operation from the eyes of israel's intelligence service and is complicated. this find acknowledges. it means that this can happen. and again and again in the future. so the people who have promised, i mean is right, is the residence of the occupied territories. the people who were promised to leave

lead in normal life india, goodbye to if there is no chance of error is that it's not a safe place to do. this migration has already started since only be in test by and this means that the end of is read is near no population. no country is such a situation. the only a lift to compensate for disc tests will be failure she occupied guess. why come us off from years and create this search empty for the residence of the architect or thursday at the source of the 3 that this house is completely eliminated. israel, she well my wonder if i could an interrupt here and go to franklin. i go to ryan him, franklin and i agree that that is the stated goal. it but to get rid of hamas, you're going to have to get rid of the population at the same time. my point is, and then my introduction i was suggesting is that the west is culpable. and in

alignment with israel and competing with is nothing less than genocide. go head, right? yeah, yeah, yeah. it is an objective reality. what you just said, man, this is what so frustrating about this entire conversation as you a so delicately put in the beginning. it's very clearly revealing that they do not care about all of the things that they, you know, the so called roles based international order clearly only applies when they want it to. right. i mean, these are like the things i always maintain, that i want. i want my audience and everybody listening to understand and these are objective realities. the united nations as always, maintains this isn't occupied territory. and because that's a reality, that means that under the geneva conventions any occupied territory has the legal right to arms struggle armed rebellion. that means that come off as actions as the resistance of one of the factions, of resistance of gaza, of the policy in people was a legally protected acts. now, once crimes that might have been a work committed after that were committed. now those are crimes sort of like when u. s. military commit, rape,

or murder or anything else that happens overseas. those are crimes, it doesn't then immediately invalidate the action if it weren't legal of a military action. but chance to answer your 1st question. this is so frustrating because what was stated by the united nations is so blatantly obvious and even more so how frustrating it is that it took him 16 days of indiscriminate, 24 hour bombing of civilian locations before he said that and then they, they, they go so far as to attack him on the un revoke they are you there, they're a devil at access or a and then also and literally condemn them and ask for them to resign before stating an objective reality. you know, just shows you that the they're trying to whitewash the actions against civilians and gaza. now on that point, if you can let me continue for one more 2nd, i think it's important that we understand that there is no way to remove the we, if you're bombing places where there are civilians present. whether or not they claim they're using as human shields, and we can get into that which the u. n. is investigated and found that i'm off.

hasn't been doing that. but that means that you are still committing a crime that's collected punishment. political is now writing art goals about how it's now somehow legal because they're using them as human shields. we know that if anybody else was doing this, they would be treating them like, like the criminal that they should be treated as. so it's just, it's, it's a grotesque and what they're doing is white washing the crimes. they would have a hold of anybody else accountable for what you know, george is go to budapest. dear george, you know, it's really quite remarkable is that, um they've been logged in and said, because these governments in the west were elected, that means the people that elected these governments that are committing crimes against arabs and muslims. they are legitimate targets. so that western media in the western political world is adopted, been loggins' doctrine because, well, the, the american people apparently voted for joe biden. and joe biden is doing this. do you see how perverse this logic is? because then, but then then, you know, you can turn around say, well, benjamin netanyahu was elected. so all the people that voted for him or are taught

legitimate targets as well. i mean, it's all very perverse, but it's being adopted george. it has indeed in the irony to what you just said, which is the hamas as boys described in the western media as not legitimate representative of the palestinian b, but not even the legitimate representative of the people of gaza. indeed, gaza is often described as a military dictatorship, which means that it's even less of your justification to punish the people of gaza for the alleged depredations of thomas. i mean, at least with the case of been live, is that where you have these democratic elections you, you, you, you know, you say they're all democratic and therefore the people of the chosen, but ministrations that are one after another. i have assumed the same policy in the middle east, for example,

all unconditional support for his role. so therefore, this has no descent. as far as the political elite is concerned in the united states on the issue of israel, apple. it says the reason that the american people are guilty of all the crimes of israel because it's a ridiculous piece of logic, but it can indeed be applied to israel. and so therefore, the, they get all the argue this, all of this, all the, you know, crimes you know, the game targeting civilians. well, yes, it's true that thomas a targeted a civilians in the, on october the 7th. but they also targeted military, like i said, they attacked the ministry basis, which is kind of similar to what most of the countries do with united states. uh only the bombs, it bumps military diet. it also attacks the civilian charges. so therefore, with the little the attempt to suggest that how much exclusively attacked

a civilians august is completely wrong. but it's done deliberately to suggest the somehow what happened on october. the 7 in is like all the cause. it was just simply an attempt to eradicate the jewish people. it's a completely falls narrative, but you know what is perpetrated in order to adjust it, but anything that israel wants to do well, and of course, george, nothing happened before october 7th we everything was calm. everyone was happy, everyone was thing and come by a. let's go back to the professor and instead on. and your 1st answer to me you, you talked about the, the, the end of israel, the, the, the, the, the existential threat. that is real faces right now. that is very real and you know, as we wait i, i tend to think that there will not be a mass of ground invasion because they'll just lose and they don't want to lose. and there are, but there are people in israel, they want a preemptive strike on has, has the law up north, i think that is very bad calculation as well. your thoughts and to that and go ahead

a look as you have seen by the certain amount of them actually the prince president has a old warrant is read about the ground invasion neither by then nor matron. us are concerned about palestinian is crystal clear for them that the ground immeasurably create. it caught my eye for his lightning. guess why? you know, when these 362, i mean square kilometers area was there. it was under the occupational is right in the hands of duration, including shuttle used to work, had to describe these rise difficulties. and guys, finally, there isn't quite a bit through it's meetings or forces from guys in 2005. this happened to the time to pursuing as we're fighting, bit store and not with besides capable of reaching to low have roll over muslim world not colored edge ground invasion. this was a mistake. could activate other on t is right forces and your engine is right. is order depth water which you yeah, it is already at ward. we live in them in case of agree off golf invasion is right

to prepare itself to flight and multi front of our that it's been not be capable of fighting cannot because it lacks strategic. did you know, so did you give is a term administered to share that diversity? this passes between the problem lies and the heart to that is right next it. i'm wondering if there incidence of just 2 by 2 or 3 steps spend enough time in the recent years to learn streaming this your not it's very interesting, ryan, because this is the, the strategic dilemma that israel faces and, and it's a dilemma that it created for itself, in the what we've been, wow, those investigative study, this is, it's a 56 years in the making. know, and should be surprised by this. go ahead before we go to the break. yeah, well i mean, really we're talking about 75 years plus if you want to get really specific about it in regard to occupation, but, you know, the, the, the legal state of israel is a legal reality. right? so we have to always go from there. we have to understand that this is an illegal occupation, but you know, there's, there's

a lot of new wants to it. obviously it's been going on a really long time, and there's people innocent people on all sides. and i think that's what this conversation needs to. what we're trying to make clear or is it in a support? the whole point is all the programs i'm making about. this is there's contacts folks. there's contacts, and when we have context, then we can have a discussion, gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue. our discussion on palestine state will talk to the

take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shepherd, reality distortion by tell us to do vision with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented as 1st? can you see through their illusion going underground, can some nations may be able to turn a blind eyes to atrocities? another comes, the united states of america is different wherever people long to be free. they will find a friend in the united states. the

seem to be an automated body of the bolts. anybody very easy to sort of city and draw the look at me for the in service of the cigarette color revolutions is one among several means to reach the goal of conquering foreign lands and bringing them on to the helm of us. the western economic interest simpleton sided, i didn't know if he gets when i go by the democrats see a new training portal active, so know the best se, little this of the by way. and then he can see the final goal of these theme or of allusions. to ensure that there are no independent players in the world anymore. the welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i'm funeral bell to remind you were discussing palestine.

the okay, let's go back to georgia in in budapest, george. we've seen the ongoing that the security council going nowhere, and it's basically the united states and its allies that just insist on repeating over and over again in every way possible fashion. you know, it has the right to self defense. well, yeah, it does. okay. i don't know what the argument is here, but actually it's, it's code. it's a coded narrative to say because it has the right to self defense. it can do anything, it wants to in response. and that is that they the, the catch right there. and that's why other countries on the security council won't go along with it, because then they would be complacent in ethnic cleansing and genocide. george this exactly right. it's a bizarre kind of a talking point is, or it has a right to self defense, which means you have israel can do whatever you'd like. and then the car all the

way over that is the cost of the attack on this nebulous kind of arab uranium. well, well they don't recognize it as rails white to exist because that's a also totally untrue because opposed to they do. but the issue a big deal, except that anyone can, i mean no one has a right to exist. but the issue is of course, what the, what are the final borders of the state of israel. and that, that is pretty much in the dispute. but they've been going back to you appointed by the united nations. it is easy and that's all in the united states. and it's out i'd say is, well, this isn't the tag on the jews, the jewish people. and they have full says, we don't want to repeat the holocaust, you know, we have to give essentially the jewish people, a blank check or whatever they want. i mean, this was very much the pitch reiterated by the battle of the gentleman, foreign ministers as a we in germany, have a special bond with israel because it was a terrible pause and that, but we always have to support israel and it goes it's, it's completely nonsensical,

because anything that you do has still to be in conformity with international humanitarian law. just saying that, well, you have a right to defend yourself. yes, you have the right to defend yourself, but you don't have a right to use a risk. disproportionate pause and you don't have a ride to violate all these looms if it's a national human monetary law, such as cutting off a civilian population from food awards, a electricity uh, fueled. uh that is obviously a violation to say that this somehow is about our right to defend ourselves, but it's obviously a line. well, no, it is, it, this is, it calls the suspend morality is what it's all about and it's, and it's an exception only this time. well, no international humanitarian law should apply all the time to everyone. it's really quite remarkable. i want to say this to all my guess is real, is a child is the child abuse nighted nations. united nations made is real. okay. and,

and of all countries to defy its rules and resolutions. you know, that's never pointed out here. let's go back to the professor, intent on i'm sure professor, do you notice that it would that there's a, a, an echo of the, a post $911.00, a more on global pair and of course, era and is always in the center of it all. okay, so let me get this straight. uh, people uh, under occupation in gaza, break out of an open air prison attack is ready at least including civilians. and so the united states has to attack around, can you explain that logic to me because i'm not sure i get it. united states could take, you know, on it's have it had, it would have done it. induce of 4 to 5 years. it is not able to do so and look at this now, and that's it. guess you're on it when

a guest is right against the guest by the sending us the wrist as no longer do, you have a lity to interfere to save his right. as for some reason that it couldn't topple it legitimacy and call them. and so by stressing for the same reason that it couldn't be sent me to a discussion board, that's what a sanders and that it couldn't embed, you know, on despite frequently claiming that the options are on the table. you see all options are not on the table. the world today is very different from what it was a decade or 2 ago. and there is no reason for your eyes interferes, but us in the us are strong enough. there is, there is just us forces injuries and are at their strongest position in history and is it, and it's based as supporters are at their biggest position. so i think from us, so it is the best time to take back the occupied territories. i think a good everybody know, wor, no massacre to march the end of the user and the end of the user. we'd be marked by

then by an event creation division. but we saw enough understanding, but usually 2 forces b, b, repeat just for the she deserves and residents of the territories. my suggestion is that if the best of the doors are concerned about the lives of design issues, provide free slides services for the so the occupied forces to anywhere in the world. they have come from. there's no need for and a lot of war the united states is not able to raise your bar as well. they, they may try, ryan and the, the, the worry is that they might fail. i don't think has pause, afraid of 2 aircraft carriers. and these manage, right, i don't think they're afraid of it. i mean they, they've had their fighters in syria, they're prepared, they've been waiting, i would say, from their perspective for a situation like this through a rise for a very long time. and these riley's fear has full law, they definitely fear. but you know,

overall this kind of an overarching thing. here. it is really the pathetic state of the west where had gemini from humanity. i mean, they have the language of humanitarian rights and they, they tried, they and they use it as a use it as a console, very often around the world. but it's really hollow in its meaning because if there is an exception, then the rule doesn't work. go ahead, right? yeah, and this is a classic tactic. and i mean, you can look back through all of that and pretty much all of us foreign policy. the joe guy off and make on my show is that they're batting 0, right? they claim we're fighting for freedom, we're trying to give freedom to these countries and they and they topple and destroy and leave it in a ruin and, and go to the next one and the next one. and so either they are the worst possible country in the world, actually starting freedom, or maybe they're not actually trying to spread freedom. you know, it's like why we let that continue is beyond me, libya left as you know, it's open slay market. now, just warring factions and we just never talk about that, it was, you know, over and over and over. so they don't have the moral high ground here. i think what

you're pointing out is important that they use these terms in order to control the perception and literally the actions of other people and including their allies. i mean, look at what happened with north stream pipeline and germany. i mean, it's very clear, these people are the very ones that they act like their adversaries are in regard to the disregard for international law. you know, so nobody's your hold, they're standing as legitimate, right? we need to, i mean, but i forget the person's name and i wish i remember it right now, but a palestinian representative on, i believe it was, bbc made a very, very important point. the only thing that the palestinian resistance and the policy and representatives are actually asking for at this moment is the equal application of international law. think about how important, obvious that isn't, you know, pretty well what, what a radical idea isn't it just, i'm just saying the obvious is extraordinary, you know, towards, you know, it was, we were brought up to, to hate around the media. i, you know, we had all the think tanks and all of that. and you know, here, here we go,

this is kind of how it's frame the crazy mall of the crazy people and cut out over and over again demonizing them denigrating them. but this is exactly how western leaders act right now. okay. they're the ones that are fanatics, they're, they lost their mind. george, that's exactly right. nice very amusing that the so there is this logic be opposite by uh, width and leaders, especially in the united states that because iran, the support the highlights. and because he runs the boards the, his bow a and the other a proxy pose is iran must be bones. and this has been said by lindsay graham has been said by uh, joseph lieberman, former vice presidential candidates. i didn't even know lieberman was still alive and to leave the notes. i didn't know that. okay. i thought i thought that we moved on to greener pastures. okay. yeah. me too. but, but that's the iran is there for

a legitimate target, because the, when it comes to ukraine, they don't say that they, the nato powers are legitimate targets for essentially bank rolling and bolting in ami um the ukraine. right. what would when auto body to the conflict? so again, it's an ellipse, the inconsistency. but the problem is if we stop escalating as well, and this is this, the, the issue that one wants to talk about is that is what your husband usually weapons in this room. i'm like, anyone else is ready to use the, i mean, we know how ruthless is realistic so if so, if it is indeed it's rose destiny to be involved in a multi front wall, that it is in danger of losing as well. we would use use a weapon so, and i don't think is any doubt about that. so it's a, it's a very dangerous situation. um and uh, and then it was one that so you know, we've come to an weird because no one has attempted to restrain is what it is or what to use new day. what was, what would model van? and the rest of them say is right as

a right to defend it. somebody has the right. so let's go back to the professor right. while rapidly running out of time. i really do, i'm glad george brought up the issue of nuclear weapons because i also think it considering how these railings want to destroy a mouse, which means we'll have to destroy all the palestinians that they could resort to weapons of mass destruction. maybe not a new killer weapon, but other ones, i mean white phosphorus, they use it on a regular basis now apparently, and no, no one calls them out on your thoughts. we as we end the program, go ahead. oh no, it is. and will not be able to use and if you ever cause, because as you see it the how much forces have it not be it killed by new services. new services are going to distribute or the people is right. is fighting. come us. the option is not with you for a nuclear need service on the option is going and to invade an inmate

from the ground. and if it's not, we did not succeed. as i said, it is not capable of invading guys different almost from the grounds because homeless has prepared and planned for it. but i'm at florida, a lot bar and and if is right, interest goes a little bit. i'm from syria and from some other forces. it's me to be attacked. usually the best plan to destroy is right. so well gentlemen, gentlemen, we are rapidly running out of time. obviously we're going to keep a very close eye on the events here. but one of them, the, the, the primary purpose of this program is to show the, the rank hypocrisy of the west when it uses the words of human rights and international human rights law. it's just suffocating lee, a stupid, okay. as all the time we have gentlemen, i think my guess in budapest for franklin and into around and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. ok. so you next time. remember us up rules

the

same wrong just don't you have to shape out the application and engagement equals the trails. when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look so common ground the

the some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities. in other countries, the united states of america is different. wherever people longed to be free, they will find a friend in the united states, the embedding. and she'll get could do to get you started, not medicare's. the majority democrats see i'm going to a different issue, but some of that, but the, she said the swooned the show. okay. i could do a multi out the price. yeah. it'll be the one for 50 bucks and want to see that he or she is belonging to this regardless office village and

the uh, the carrier said, even do they need been di, beneficial, but soon it is said that

the