it onto a really important team and in that book would be events of october. the 7th of happened if you was still for an insecurity minutes service ro? well i, we should, he says he's one of the cases. but the thing is that uh i am so i am fully aware of uh, the reason was because uh the brought us to a failure band. and the condition was, or no idea and i must have made it to the business today. uh, fall back to the conditions before the war before a few days before the war, we had an envelope of a friendly stays that could have been the had for particularly have for in the, in moving the process to doing all the time. that was not exactly the condition with this the old days with amy rockies and others. so i seen that the duration of the set, top know before the war of the day before the war was much more friendly to

uh, to a vibrant piece process than you know, it varies. i suppose. what do you, what do you mean there is, if you are for an insecurity minister today or on october, the 6th, it could still have happened because of nothing. yahoo, because you said that uh what made the enabled the blood shed inevitable was nothing. yeah. well i, uh, what i mean by that is the blogger is by the government, and by him personally, has to do with he's the so the jimmy's understanding. but the reality is he didn't believe the cause. this is a change on the part of the i'm was he's doing entity to reflect the cd to the national policy and movement. he said the one that he met as a by doing the assembly and phone number.

oh, so he said the other thing that should not be allowed to have a v to arrive on the, on this, on a, some of the pieces. and the as we see they are having sort of m p to arrive. uh that is uh, being expressed to these, there are probably between this one and goes up and then of course, from the strategic the emotions, the practical blogger. otherwise you have had the forces military forces deployed the longer the gossip older. and not only is the tension in protecting the circulars in the, in the west fire. i mean, i've, i've said this of the program a few times recently. we don't oil sands of thomas carlyle. you can just put it all on. net and yahoo in fan is in your book, you show there a huge security structures in israel, which will bound to fail almost is they'll just is volt. clearly there's an entire

architecture of security and defense forces in there that didn't even understand that this multi $1000000000.00 wall of, of gauze or, and so on was kind of useless a no, right? i mean, yeah, well tell you what to addressing you. what's your particular question about today? about the, the reasons that we have this says failure today. yeah. and you are to, to understand the cylindrical vision i spoke to. historically, i am fully aware that i is right about the people who go for the entire secuity and civilian a celebration i'm being being folded up in the position of authority to the space is not the something the to has to do with a tough one prime minister this has to be fine, but all for the last the officer. well for century, the already the 1980s. uh there was a, uh,

this is the uncomfortable uh, why is this car um the shut off, but at the end of an issue, we spoke about the situation being, being the reverse man because the realities of the ones that were created and through the satellite and some missing community establishment and then go to have you. yes, it will advise against the assumption that suggests because of these realities, it is entirely impossible to have a political solution. i mean, are we quote, the solutions even the, even today, this is really a notion of a all sub loss of settlements. that can be slow to wave the policy and sonya whether it's where the land is to a place,

technically it's not politically as soon bye or yeah, well i want to get onto those clear and, and i think that's why the book is so interesting. actual possible solutions rather than the parenting of this phrase at twos state solution. and as you say, you know, at the beginning of your most recent uh, work i mean coming from a home, a foreign minister that, um, that what you've written isn't a bit. you're a of this to state kind of error that we hear politicians talking about all the time during this military and gaza at the moment. um, so why do you think that, as you mentioned the history, the 1st reaction from israel, you and then basset, to, to general secretary general gutierrez, saying that the attacks and october 7th did not occur in a vacuum, was to call for his resignation and do immediately refuse visas, the united nation stuff, and the reach this is out to late on the head of for the i know the sure

when he comes from and i don't know alternately important this day. i don't think that he meant exactly was the way he was interpreted. i just said it shouldn't be under it. that didn't happen in a vacuum. that's all. yeah, exactly. i don't think he was condoning the southern stuff, october massacre. i don't believe that that was what he meant. and but anyway, in the, the, the politics of a, of a boy called the end of the un officials from, i think this is a totally a, in effect to it is not trying to and, and this is know the way the visually promises should behave. and that it has accompanied means, your appearances by as rarely have fuller and bassett is maybe the people who used

to work for you who does a cooling palestinians, animals and this civil chain used to reports, way hearing the density blink until the guitar re government to tone down coverage of their satellite news channel. is there a concerted attempt and is there consisted worry now by the israeli government and the united states sponsors that this, these pictures which they can control on social media or of dying children means a, it's even worse than in, in the time is when you are foreign minister in terms of the atrocities of the world saying to hello, you know, the 2 or if these are the 2 or most thoughts. i melt the next sort of thing in the, in the international. uh no. uh i, i, i'm afraid that it said it's a very said the bus. i'm not sure the best of severely as

a sauce is a, is a lower crime. i think that's a targeting civilians is a lot of crime and i, i used to believe that the, the is what the forces do not targets on purpose really does. as we saw the other day with these debates about the hospital, it turns out the thing fairly, i the, if you want to bring, but the, to me that was quite convincing. well, now the new york times, as you know, is we're going back from that. and most people say that if you blow up, if you drop the amount of will though, because i have to say, i mean you have if you drop the amount of a cmt equivalent to hiroshima or on a space like because you're going to kill civilians, you're in effects targeting civilians but, but i suppose this has happened so many times and what's unusual about your view point is that you've said all as low as

a waste of time as chief negotiator to camp david. you've itemized what was going on and, and said that the problem is the israel has never had a leader that understood the tragedy of the displacement of palestinians and what the palestinian story actually is. but what is the interest of the bite? and so next sholtes and macro coming to a peer besides, that's an yeah. what's your understanding of why they did that as well? this is quite how i'm president of the history also the call over of a conflict between the and the policy has. and it needs to be understood in my view at all in 2 ways. while it is in the, the fall of the 7th of october. and the 2nd is the symmetric understanding of these leave because the tools these find rolling, boswell is a then,

is parts open. brother showed um where uh, nope, was it says blog rush uh, drum possibly trying. i was and it used to be defined as a totally till the warning uh in your end as well. so you right in gaza i've seen in terms of the uh, strategic brother setup as part of all the setting config. yeah. on the other side, you will have it with a mouse, which is a, a, an inlaw or, or b to a copy, paste it in a way thing by you, by the wrong, which is again the wrong or the ronnie says, right off shot which is the way the way to do wrong on the, in the, in your brain and beyond. so that's, that's the understanding is i the way i interpret the. so why do i have the shock at the college is to place along the border. and on the 7th

of october, and the 2nd is the broader strategic set up. yeah, so in, in your work, you haven't really highlighted that element of, of israel being a proxy project. which seems to be how the global south appear to be saying. the fact that lula said what israel is doing is genocide. the be in bricks, is it? what does that mark this out is very different to all the previous flare ups of, well can, i can and slow to the idea that as you say, this is now seen as is rarely seen. forget the, is there any people and a new book, you actually have all those say that the d e is being used by outside palace, but now it's really being used by outside power as, as a buttress against this new multiple a will that we hear all the time from badging and moscow about yeah, but this was the react to this is my mind being the critique coordinators really

saw is that the doesn't to clear political, strategic partners, it doesn't know it. instead of reacting as a reactive ward, i think that is i would have to have an accident anyway, when westminster bought on without please professor. sure i'm a been, i me, i'll stop you. the more from israel is full, the fire and security minister, opposite his right the

of the every spring and summer, the melting optics move reveals abandoned machinery, millions of rusty barrels, and the detritus left by human expansion into this most inaccessible of territories . yes, i used to move forward to a customer or both of us to put some new doors at the post to be done as an issue to us from clean optic travels the highest island home to the biggest opponent station on the front of joseph land, occupied the go diarra, he asked me for i was in the bush or more you should. so it means if you have,

when you feel when we see lots of money, we did not put some of the summer. stay on the old stuff last time i feel like a may from a serial or see me membership when you to i've got the, i'm saving the boys to the middle of please to join me instead of the optic pioneers main objective was to explore and comcast these harsh lands, they had no time to think about waste management now and, and i guess they could remain for centuries. that's my of my choice of so it's pretty at the course you system is the one you have to go, but the team could have to deal with the issue the welcome back to going underground. and i'm still here with israel's full before an insecurity minister position with bellamy view and just saying that is where i

would have reacted regardless of american support to which most people would say, well, hang on a minute is real. doesn't have any, you know, funds without the american and british and european union nation to reply in this, in this summer goes to average weight against the civilians of cause a good it's what do you mean by rearming? the replenishing is, was uh military. yeah. awesome. okay. yes, uh well, i guess the yes, uh the us has the boss as well as the young people in the, into after one of these type of a 4th, which is but with the, with come us and go right. it is the single, the something that cannot, we do not. and the fact that i'm already has moved or cut off the carriers to the eastern with the, to rent. and it has to do, we might deal with the, with the girl, the subject setup, which i mentioned earlier, they, i think the participating the role they could, they came to the, the,

to see spa and the entry rodney and you find that i wanted to say your words about it is possible. i think that um um, when we send the car for the entities, well that easy you in times or for the to, to avoid the prostitution of the language. the policy, i don't know the most, and these are always not conducting the general side. we need to calculate how are our works is it's really a general side. you know, how many people died in draws attacked by americans in oregon installed in iraq. i don't know, you said police, take the $1000.00 groceries and nobody cited isn't turned on side. i'd say no news to prostitute our language. okay. well, as little as being on this program, it is not enough without present notice, or you're not even

a model enough without okay, well i mean the we have had is riley is in the past week or so in london. i think these really invested to london to speak of it in the same terms as dresden not saying. as if dresden was a, it was a terrible atrocity. but st. dresden was unnecessary addresses to which many people think was quite bizarre. but you said as regards what's happening in ukraine, the only beneficiaries with the us alms industry. how far do you think the bible and blinking, blinking, of course himself, of fuller, patrick and consulting company. um, boss, how far is this war also being uh, promoted by the vested interest of, um, companies that have benefited, obviously by the masses of arms being poured into the lensky and care, but also being poured into his room. that's not only the war. i mean the entire

american, the assistance who's right. it isn't even diary saucer the to the war in the the and i'll send us the america. this is dollar mom or the has to be spent in the us. it cannot be spend interest problem, which means that from the very beginning that it's not the unit normal times. i'm already kind of a, it is can be seen as an in dire saucer to the austin. but for when i roll to and they roll the piece about 2 things, i need somebody and they said to be hungry. well, they say that the main when a and before so far has been done any kind of industry because the fact that to the west as a whole is it is in this floor without having the and then getting the mind. what is the objective i, i don't think i've even seen the fuel model. the dogs think he's now that the, the, the russians can be and can be thrown back to be,

it's not trying to go there. i don't believe this is a reality state to attract to and therefore some sort of a accommodation has to be fall found and the 2 is to cease fire and then install some sort of uh, also uh, nicholas. the issue is, but otherwise these were, would go forever just as the one would come us. i don't think that the, i think that that is the, the main weakness. so based on the position, is that the 1000 to come talk to this is less than a wow. but we learned from the problem. so it's, i mean, was it was the check to destroying almost entirely a bring into a new use between the model. so the smoke years, it was a bit possible on the door. so i mean, based on my, my trigger, it was the configuration in the region and the old. so i think that's the fact that

there is no strategic objective is, was the reason the house. oh understood the oh to be screen teak also get started from bottom and was the biggest little check the what is the strategic and again, and this is where it is was, is finding well we know who's paying for that to failure. because i might say this is this as cuts a logical idea or an in washington that they're fighting china, they're fighting russia through ukraine, and they'll fight iran and the budgeting arab will, i suppose the is of havoc well through, through israel. but unlike so many other voices on this situation, you talk about rather like palestinian scholars as well. talk about a one state solution now that there are a 130 so called settlements, a 140. so go settlement outposts. 70000. what? 2?

how many occupies, are there in east jerusalem? is bought of the old un resolution is outlining. it's why you said this. and why is some reason we still hear this 2 state solution? paris, if res, from politicians as widely different as she didn't being, that'd be a boot in job i. well, i think it is to be turned out to be impossible to reconcile the minimum requirements of the bias, the national mobile and for the d. c was, is, was a much simpler uh, capacity for um, for making the necessary con concessions these to simply consult me because of the unique nature of, of all the conflicts debating the conflict. not just about that. it's not bad for the seats in the categories. the to easily somebody seeing us cannot

to agree on the piece uh the personal for the g. like well i'm the only size jerusalem. this is not the real estate business like we had with the, with the issue that is getting back the sign i peninsula and then getting a be a piece of argument for it. here the, the, you see what, what the fusions and the ending in the syrians giving negotiations were off to give this load is a, is a political look in tennessee. you, there's a police and color to messy integration. understand he is asked to be, is a political and the more of the truth and i say and, and that is what's next. the other scene position the so much simulation the i just hope it is only negotiate because because you have to pay the price that goes far beyond the, the problems that were created. the $9067.00,

you are being bossed div a price that has to do with the problems of not looking for the problems created in 1948 and the system. the, the collective issue, i mean, probably isn't of paying the price if the $16.00 exceedingly high . uh, and then if you have a problem noticed that, that would be willing to pay the price. then any way we thought was politically, one of them was a saucy native and 2 others were defeated politically because they came to close to meeting the but i sent in the requirements. would it be for a piece the so this is why i come to the conclusion that this is a process solution that is waiting on the store to eat. that is the motive of $67.00, uh,

swap sol plan. the removal of those settlement is a 2 last scale and as a petition of truth alone the see me on the control over the how much are you you've done for them on all these to me is no possible. given what i understand, that is the system and the world i understand all the conditions of being published. i always displayed good. i'm awesome. okay. or i've and the problem, i mean, as long as we run out of time, given the inability, it seems for anyone to understand that this is the case. whether it be international powers, security council members. how would you expect the outcome of this current conflict to be because as we can see, the arab and islamic world, and so the, the air will, doesn't seem to want to save the people of garza, the way russia sees the saving of the people from the east in the ukraine,

but there are resistance movements around the world. they're obviously boycotts beginning. there is now a whitening of protest movement all around the world. it's very different to think that the samples that you are 40 percent of jews in the united states believe the israel is in apartheid state. how should we expect this conflict to move? i suppose it depends on, on, on what happens in lebanon? yeah, i think i've seen the we need to look at the media stuff and well, it is possible to kind of see a longer term in the media step. i think we should the, the ocean drive to a situation whereby according to the, to the 30, the closer. so that was not all the other but a single authority. we have a decent story to extend that to the gulf stream as well. going to happen.

but the big it might happen to these is uh, if uh um how much is diminished to such a degree? because this is not going to be my view. it was a few of a few weeks. it will go on for a long time. uh if this is, if this happens and uh, the, the reason i want to check the financial, a couple of entities and the security capacity is to uh, to the police handles all righty. maybe we can restart some sort of uh, peace negotiations otherwise. well, i believe, well may happen at some point is that the design is uh, dna is insured. as i understand it to design is the in the, as i understand, it was always more about the moment. what have you been about originally?

that is, it was part of the, by the settlers, by the collision of the time you all buy machine off is where at least to the ride sees the year 2000. it was put into making territory prevailing over them. oh, perfect. i've seen that at some point, and prime minister with the toilet, a load and hold on. i've tried to do it in 2006. that is it converge this plan to start these engaging uh unit, actually from boss of the west bank in order to prevent the ocean, the entire disappearance. all the joys said into eh, what i call a cell frequency duration with the south african solution. this is wanda states reality. i don't see 2 such it was state reality. i don't see a stop. i got a solution. so maybe this solves

a lot to restore which is not the best solution. the best will be one, negotiate the sofa bed, but will be this stuff happen before you force inevitably, the jordanians, to austin, having a role in the west beck. this will be very bad for the king though, because you will see moments of population from the west to the other side of the river if the diesel is eventually designed to conduct some sort of international, these engagement in the older, not to go solely. they saw the kind of situation which would be, which would be suicide of 4 is a progression of, of a let me thank you. thank you. and that's it for the show. and condolences from the whole team here i have going underground to those bereaved by the ongoing violence in the middle east. there will be more guards on monday's show with british historian and tony blast beach writes, as in lawrence friedman,

until then keep in touch, why will i social media if it's not sensitive in your country and had to watch? i don't think i'll be going to be on the come to us new and old episodes of going underground see monday the the nice thing here doesn't yahoo! to the school, the economy. blue team is big with which t v is now trying to deliberately create the bigger conflict, i think is a conflict with your yahoo. if it's the right to to see them there. you know, we received in that are claiming that one is going on because nothing to do with the goal is the name is really one thing for the real reason for the, for the crisis. these be around

the it is a blackout on the ground in gaza. israel ramps up arrow tax across the region and as we understand id of trying to penetrate that gossip from the know the israel rejected. so un resolution, i'm calling for an immediate cease fire in the class, and it will be using all available tools to rid the world of what israel coals evil for how much he's doing would use every mean. it's our disposal to accomplish this mission. the pro product engine demonstrations, just a rough thing all around the world. a lot of all position to water as it is.