as far as the rad reinstalled aside on the stop from the building, the site is condemned is already a function code for an end of the age. and so oh wow . oh for this new the other one is this going to have your company here? ok. i'm the i'm action or it's nancy and welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from the u. a. in a week after another un resolution for a cease fire in gaza, supported by russia. china. i'm the you

a was vetoed by the usa in britain present noon of brazil, the current rotating chair of the un security council has labeled the u. k. u. s. and you, nation on aerial bombardment of the besieged cause a strip of genocide for weeks now. and this thousands of children have been slaughtered. israel's principal sponsor the usa as argued against the seas for within the state department and tech companies attempting defense and use coverage of is really aerial bombardment of a church schools, hospitals, and most. joining me from grenada in spain is us warships arrive in the middle east, is israel's form of foreign and security minister preventive shlomo? been, i mean, he's now vice president of the july, the international incentive of peace. thank you so much professor ben, i me for coming on. i've got the book. yeah. prophets without honors. came out on the months ago. um, before i get onto a, a, a really important team and in that book would be events of october. the 7th of

happened, if you were still for an insecurity, minnes service ro, as we said, he says he's one of the cases. but the thing is that i am full. i am fully aware of . the reason is because the real test for failure and the condition was sort of no idea and i must have meant to do my business today uh, fall back to the conditions before the war. before a few days before the war, we had an envelope of a friendly stays. the could have been the had for particularly have for in the, in moving the process to doing all the time. that was not exactly the condition with the soul visual, that'd be rockies and others. so i've seen the duration of the set up know before the war of the day before the war was much more friendly to uh, to him,

by the peace process than email or base. i suppose. what do you, what do you mean there is, if you are for an insecurity minister today or on october, the 6th, it could still have happened because of net and yahoo because you said that uh, what made uh, an enabled the blood shed. uh, negligible, was nothing. yeah. as well. i what i mean by that is the blogger, of, by the, you know, government and by him personally, has to do with he's the, so he's using these understanding. but the reality is he didn't believe the cause. this is the change on the part of the i'm was he's doing and the need to reflect the defeated the national policy and movement. he said the one that he met the by doing the assembly and phone number. oh,

so he said the other thing that should not be allowed to have a veto arrived on the, on this, on a, some of the pieces. and the as we see they are having sort of, he to runs. uh that is uh, being expressed through, uh, uh, these are all hoping to design and go to and then of course, from the strategic plan on the image is the topic of blogger. otherwise, you would have had the forces military forces deployed the longer the gossip older and not only is attention in protecting the circulars in the, in the west fire. i mean, i've, i've said this of the program a few times recently. we don't oil sands of thomas carlyle. you can just put it all on. net yahoo! in in fan is in your book, you show there a huge security structures in israel, which will bound to fail almost is they'll just is volt. clearly there's an entire architecture of security and defense forces in there that didn't even understand

that this multi $1000000000.00 wall of, of gauze or, and so on was kind of useless a no, right? i mean, yeah, well tell you want to addressing your, what's your particular question about today? about the, the reasons that we have this says failure today. yeah. and you are to, to understand the cylindrical vision i spoke to. historically, i am fully aware that i is right about the think the little go for the entire security and civilian a celebration i'm being being folded up in the old version of authority to the space is not the soft thing the to has to do with the uh josh, one prime minister of use as be fine, but all for the last the whole said well for century, the already 19 eighties. uh there was a uh visit uncomfortable uh,

why is this car um the shut off, but addition, i don't think of an issue. we spoke about the situation being, being a reversible man because the realities of the ones that were created and through the satellite and some missing community establishment. and then both have you. yes . a little bit advise against the assumption that suggests because of these realities. it is entirely impossible to have a political solution. i mean, are we quote, the solutions even the, even today, the basic is really notion of a all sub loss of settlements. that can be slow to wave the policy and sonya whether it's where the land is to a place, technically it's not politically as soon bye or yeah,

well i want to get onto those clear and, and i think that's why the book is so interesting. actual possible solutions rather than the parenting of this phrase at twos state solution. and as you say, you know, at the beginning of your most recent uh, work, i mean coming from a home a form is that, um that what you've written isn't a bit. you're a of this to state kind of error that we hear politicians talking about all the time during this military and gaza at the moment. um. so why do you think that, as you mentioned the history, the 1st reaction from israel, you and then bass to, to general factory general gutierrez, saying that the attacks on october 7th did not occur in a vacuum, was to call for his resignation. and to immediately refuse visas for united nation stuff in the region. this is actually on the headphone. uh,

i know there is uh where he comes from and i told alternately i'm positive. i don't think because he meant exactly was the way he was interpreted. i just said it shouldn't be under it. that didn't happen in a vacuum. that's all. yeah, exactly. i don't think he was condoning the silver and stuff october massacre. i don't believe that that was what he meant. and but anyway, in the, the, the politics of a, of a boy called the end of the un officials from, i think this is a totally a, in effect to the it is non trying to and, and this is know the way the visually promises should behave and that it has accompanied means, your appearances by as rarely have fuller and bassett is maybe the people who used

to work for you who does a cooling palestinians, animals and this civil obtain used to reports. we are hearing the density blink until the guitar re government to tone down coverage of their satellite news channel. is there a concerted attempt? and is there consented worry now by the israeli government and the united states sponsors that this, these pictures which they can control on social media or of dying children? means a, it's even worse than in, in the times when you are foreign minister in terms of the atrocities of the world to seeing, to hello, you know that said the 2 or is it the 2 or on both sides? i'm the next 30 in the, in the international. uh no. uh i, i am afraid that it is said is very said above, i'm not sure the best of severely as a sauce is a, is

a low cry my thing, but a targeting civilians is a motor car. and i, i used to believe that the is what the forces do not targets on purpose. really guys, as we saw the other day with this debate about the hospital, it turned out the other thing fairly. i the, if you want to bring, but to me that was quite convincing. well, now the new york times, as you know, is we're going back from that. and most people say that if you blow up is that if you drop the amount of will though, because i have to say, i mean, you can drop the amount of a cmt equivalent to hiroshima or on a space like because you're going to kill civilians, you're in effects targeting civilians but, but i suppose this has happened so many times and what's unusual about your view point is that you've said all as low as a waste of time as chief negotiator to camp david. you've itemized what was going

on and, and said that the problem is the israel has never had a leader that understood the tragedy of the displacement of palestinians and what the palestinian story actually is. what is the interest of the biden? so next sholtes and macro coming to a peer besides, that's an yeah. what's your understanding of why they did that as well? these are quite versed and then to the history also the call over also uh perfect because what i let and the policy has and it needs to be understood in my view uh in 2 ways. while using the, the shell call him on the 7th of october. and the 2nd is the so the understanding of dc because the 12 who signed rolling because of that is a and is far too often broiled or uh,

shows um where uh, nope, was it says blog rush uh the wrong possibly trying i was and it used to be defined as a totally till the war in uh, in your end as well. so you, right. and because i've seen in terms of the uh, strategic brother setup as fontose as all the setting config. yeah. on the other side, you will have it with a mouse, which is a, a, an inlaw, your or b to a copy, paste it in a way thing by, you know, by the wrong, which is again, you're wrong with your audiences right off shot, which is the way the way to do run on the internet in your brain and beyond. so that's, that's the understanding. these are the way i interpret the. so why do i have the shop at the college to place along the boulder and on the 7th of october and the 2nd is the broader strategic set up. yeah, so in,

in your work you haven't really highlighted that element of, of israel being a proxy project, which seems to be how the global south appear to be saying. the fact that lula said what israel is doing is genocide. the be in bricks, is it what does that mark this out is very different to all the previous flare ups of well can again and slow to the idea that as you say, this is now seen as is rarely seen. forget the, is there any people and a new book, you actually have all those say that the d e is being used by outside palace, but now it's really being used by outside power as, as a buttress against this new multiple a will that we hear all the time from badging and las go about yeah, but this was the react to this is my, my main a critique coordinates really saw is that he doesn't to clear political,

strategic publish. it doesn't know if he's had a reactive of a reactive ward. i think that he's i would have had, haven't been active it any way when western support on without this professor shouldn't have been. i me, i'll stop you. the more from israel is full before an insecurity minister, opposite his right. the safety of the whole soul. they caught in the loose fuel, it began with which t v is now trying to deliberately create the conflict, i think is a conflict with your yahoo. if it's the right to do to see that, you know, we keep the matter of claiming that what is going on because nothing to do with the

goal is the name is really one thing for the real reason for the uh, for the crisis needs to be around the welcome back to going under run it. i'm still here with israel's former for an insecurity minister position with bellamy view and just saying that is where i would have reacted regardless of american support, which most people would say, well, hang on a minute. israel doesn't have any, you know, funds without the american and british and european union nation to reply in this. in this somebody goes to have injury against the civilians of kaiser. good. it's what do you mean by rearming? the replenishing is, was uh military. yeah, awesome. okay. yeah, well i guess the yes,

uh the us has the boss to it as well as the young people in the industry to after one of these type of a 4th, which is fine with the with come us and go right. it is uh many times to go through something that cannot be denied. and the fact that i already has moved, or i have cut off the carriers for the eastern with the to rent. and it has to do with my fuel with the, with the girl, the subject setup, which i mentioned earlier they, i think the participating the role they could, they came to the, the, to see spa and, and the rodney and the, if i may, i wanted to say your words about the if this is possible, i think that, um um, when we send the car for the entities, well the issue doing times are for the to, to avoid the prostitution of the language, the policy and all the other models. and the,

as well as not conducting the general side, we need to calculate total are, are worth a, is this really a general side, you know, how many people died in draws a tax by americans in i've got installed in iraq. i don't know if at least $80000.00 close to it and nobody cited isn't turned on side. i'd say no new to prostitute. a good. okay. well present new lesbian on this program. it is enough with all of it present. knew this or not charging off even a more of enough without. okay. well i mean the we have had, is riley is in the past week or so in london. i think these really invested to london to speak of it in the same terms as dresden not saying. as if dresden was a, it was a terrible atrocity. but st. dresden was unnecessary addresses to which many people think was quite bizarre. but you said as regards what's happening in ukraine,

the only beneficiaries with the us alms industry. how far do you think the bible and blinking, blinking, of course himself, of fuller, patrick and consulting company. um, boss, how far is this will also being uh, promoted by the vested interest of, um, companies that have benefited, obviously by the masses of arms being poured into the lensky in care of but also being pulled into israel. that's not the only the war. i mean the entire american, the assistance who's right, it isn't even diary saucer until the war and the and i'll send us the america. this is dollar mom or the has to be spent in the us. it cannot be, spends industry the problem, which means that from the very beginning that we still don't believe you in the world. but during normal times, i'm already kind of ease kind of the same as any director to saucers,

to the same. but when i roll to and they roll the piece about 2 things i need say, and they said to be hungry. uh well they say that the main when uh, this floor so far has been done any kind of industry because the fact that to the west as a whole is it is in this floor without having the and then getting the model. what is the objective i, i don't think i didn't think that if your model has to go about doing these things, you know that the russians can be and can be thrown back to be it's not kind of go there. i don't believe these things around your state to object to and therefore some sort of uh, accommodation has to be fall found and the 2 is of the ceasefire. and then install some sort of the legal issues. but otherwise these will go forever just as the one

we'd come across. i don't think that the, i think that that is the, the main weakness. so based on the position is that the $8000.00 to the test or this is less than the one. but we learned from the also it's, i mean, was it, is the objective of destroying almost entirely a bring into a new use did with the model for the small to use it possible the door. so i don't mean patient my, my to the why, the configuration in the origin and the all the show a thing that's the fact that there is no strategic objective is, was the reason the house. oh understood the oh to discrete teak of the bottom and was the biggest little check what is the strategic and okay, and this is where it is was, is fairly well we know who's paying for that to a failure, because i might say this is this as catch

a logical idea or an in washington that they're fighting china, they're fighting russia through ukraine, and they'll fight to iran and the budgeting arab will, i suppose the as of havoc well through it through israel. but unlike so many of the voices on this situation, you talk about rather like palestinian scholars as well. talk about a one state solution now that there are a 130 so called settlements, a 140. so go to settlement outposts $70000.00. uh, what to how many occupies are there in east jerusalem is bought of the old un resolution is outlining. it's why you said this and why is some reason we still hear this 2 state solution power. so if res, from politicians as widely different as she didn't being, that'd be a boot in job i. well, i think it is to be turned out to be impossible to reconcile the minimum of the

requirements of the state and national model. and for the d. c. was, is, was a model to model uh, capacity for um, for making the necessary con concessions at least to simply consult me because of the you want me to make sure all the, all the conflicts to being the conflict, not just about that. it's not bad for the seats, the categories that it's really somebody seeing us cannot to agree on and it is a little bit personal for the g. think, well i'm the only size, jerusalem. this is not the real estate business like we had with the, with the issue that is getting back the sign i peninsula and then getting a be a piece of agreement for it. here the, the, you see what, what the fusions and the ending of the syrians getting negotiations were off. load

is a, is a political legitimacy give this a police and color tend to messy integration. understanding is asked to be is a political and the more of the shape. right? and that is what's next. the other scene position. the so much simulation the is only negotiate because because you have to pay the price that goes far beyond the problems that were created. the 9067 you are being bossed div a prize that has to do with the problems of not looking for the problems created in 1948 and the system. uh the, the, the, the collective uh issue. i mean, probably as in the off paying the price if these are exceedingly high. uh, and then if you have

a problem noticed that that would be willing to pay the price. then anyway, we thought was politically, one of them was a saucy native and 2 others were defeated politically because they came to close to meeting the but i sent in the requirements, would it be for a pc? so this is why i come to the conclusion that this is a toaster solution that is waiting on the store, but that is the 67 uh, swap. so plan, the removal of those settlement is a lot of scaling. and as a petition of truth alone, the see me on the control over tell the how much are you you've done for them on all this to me is no possible given what i understand, that is the system and the world. i understand all the conditions of being

published. i always displayed good. i'm awesome. okay. or i've and the problem, i mean, i would rather as we run out of time, given the inability, it seems for anyone to understand that this is the case. whether it be international powers, security council members. what do you expect the outcome of this current conflict to be because as we can see, the arab and islamic will sort of the arrow will, doesn't seem to want to save the people of gaza. the way russia sees the saving of the people from east in the ukraine. but there are resistance movements around the world. they're obviously boycotts beginning. there is now a whitening of protest movement all around the world. it's very different to think that the samples that are 40 percent of jews in the united states believe that israel is in apartheid state. how should we expect this conflict to move?

i suppose it depends on, on, on what happens in lebanon? yeah, i think i think that's a we need to look at the media stuff and what is possible to conceive a longer term in the media or a step. i think we should the, the endorsement drive to a situation whereby according to the, to the 30, the closer. so that was like, oh, that's the single authority. we have a decent story to extend the to the ship as well. going to happen. but the, the, it might happen to these is uh, if uh um, how much is diminished to such a degree? because this is not going to be my view. it was a few of a few weeks each will go on for a long time. if this is, if this happens and the, the reason i kept it wouldn't be best to inject the financial

a couple of entities into security capacity is to, uh, to the channels. alrighty. maybe we can restart some sort of uh, peace negotiations. otherwise. well, i believe, well, may happen at some point is that the design is to uh, the, to the standard to design this dna is, i understand it was always more about the moment. what have you been about originally that it was, it was part of the by the settlers, by the collision of the time you all by the she of is where at least to the right sees the year 2000. it was put into making territory prevailing over them over for you. i think that at some point and prime minister with the toilet, the try to do it in 2006. that is,

it converges flat to start these, engaging a unit, actually from boss of the west bank in order to prevent the ocean, the entire disappearance. all the joys stayed in to eh, what i call a cell frequency duration with the south african solution. this is wanda states reality. i don't see 2 such it was state reality. i don't see a stop. i got a solution. so maybe this solves a lot to restore which is not the best solution. the best will be one, negotiate the sofa bed, but will be this stuff happen before you force inevitably, the jordanians, to austin, having a role in the west back. this will be very bad for the king though, because you will see moments of population from the west but to the other side of

the river if the diesel is eventually designed to conduct some sort of international, these engagement in the older not to go solely the south africa kind of situation which would be, which would be suicide of 4 is a progression of, of a let me thank you. thank you. and that's it for the show and condolences from the whole team here as going underground to those bereaved by the ongoing violence in the middle east. there will be more guards on monday's show with british historian and tony blast beach, right. as in lawrence friedman, until then keep in touch, why will i social media if it's not sensitive in your country and had to watch and we're going underground tv on the come to us and you handle the episodes of going underground. see monday, the the, the

part of the engulfing, the called, the smug for being one is where pool is expanded operations. it's the 3rd treat which included a cogent communications block. now, for warning may apply the following images to video for this or do i thing on social media trying to show f as to rescue indian people on the scale of destruction. ingles, the often the recent is very in fact the idea of police is put the of it's all the unit pricing. and the reason i didn't base ranges over with this is the full ground offensive. i think frequently promise a 1000000 strong crowd gathers in to here to protest against israel's actions and goest bass off the president add on hold on his current.