the indians for liberation from the colonial yoke, the wealth from 12 to part, until a few weeks ago, the conflict in ukraine was treated in western media as a major stretch. and they're both based order on the one that is most likely to decide the outcome of a battle between the forces of democratic booth and autocratic evil. the election of violence in the middle east has manifested a totally new order of brutality which has made it so much more difficult, even for the southwest, north west,

to take sides or go for an easy solutions. what does this process mean for the international system? or to discuss it, i'm now joined by demetrius, so slow deputy and director of the center for comprehensive if your opinion and international studies are the higher school of economics in moscow. demetrius good to see you again. thank you very much for your time. hello, side of nice to meet you, nice to see you or was pleasure. thank you. now, let me 1st ask, you know, there's a schooler but is a colleague of mine as a media professional and for our audience, i want to mention that demetrius also hosting a geo political show called great game on one of russia's biggest channels. and i think is media professionals, we have just witnessed a major change in the and how will the media currents flow because, um, uh, the reality and guys of was so unexpected. and so shocking that i think you caught many, the western media of god, then they were put into

a situation when they actually have to report on death reality, rather than trying to preemptively shape the the frame. and so in that case, very rare case, reality seems to be trumping perceptions. what does it mean in terms of the global uh, informational award? because whether we liked it or not, there, there a reason battle of narratives going on. like a sudden i think this is a very significant developments in the west on media seminal science. first, of course the wisdom media. it was called of god because we all remember us, 3 weeks ago, jake solve them. the national security advisor, united states, tried to convince everyone that the middle east was the most peaceful position within decades. right. the, the west of media seemed to believe it. they deliberately tried to ignore the question of these available as the new or select. and we'll just kind of be off the

brackets thing with forget about it and focus on different things. second point i think that was going. busy on him, garza now is a putting the west, a media in a very awkward position and the west is basically losing the global information war because israel, unquestionably these are part of the bus a little bit west. but today, after experiencing this. busy looking at back there was that back, israel in it's term is conducting a process, is of such a scale that you can't really present that support shape the narrative of a justified proportion of use of force and justified self defense. you, you kind of do it and this really boats, the media universe walk with position. they step to report on what's going on. instead of trying to shape the narrative of,

of israel being on the good side of the street. i wonder how do you understand the naturalists government seeming resolve to take gods and by force because for oh, he's fiber and rhetoric. benjamin netanyahu is known as a highly calculating politician. he cannot be ignorant of all the possible repercussions of such a move military civilian economic international. and by proceeding with a military operation, is there a wouldn't be destroying the very status for the itself. how to create and maintain why take such as huge risk as well. uh 1st i, i think, you know, the whole needs, its, uh, 2 bro. lowercase political existence. you know, because people and where to ask questions, how it all would happen. people both of the blame on the a, by the way, them, his government personally cleaning quite right, lit up that's uh certain in the gaithersburg, the goals at the level of political leadership. and they actually made this

a situation possible. so they be are the political responsibilities in order to avoid paying the price for. busy that i think about an younger wants to the soul, the car on the golf live in it, bigger goals live. which key is now trying to deliberately create the bigger conflict, i think is a conflict with bureau and what we are seeing. and i think this is of a madison phones news that yahoo is trying to do to shift the narrative to you know, completely see the narrative claiming that what is going on. he has nothing to do with the goal is the name is really on think percent. the real reason before uh the uh for the crisis is your app. but yeah, the, i mean, you're good to hear something because i think this is a very interesting analysis of the assignments done. having a war with around which is still

a state actor. therefore it's far more responsible and in some ways more predictable. what suit israel's current situation because on the one hand you don't have to invade gaza as they have been uh, suggesting or have been talking about. but on the other hand, it essentially it allows them to have a more. but this sort of an easier way, is that what you're suggesting? well, it's not necessarily easy. it was a, certainly it'd be go more of a war on several fronts because it would definitely involve kids, bely and the level. well, in general, it was also editable. it involves the united states and i say it on yahoo calculus is that if there is such a such an escalation on the wall from just if you're a local conflict in gaza to a broader. busy like at least with. busy being around, you know, brooks is and at the maximum with your on itself,

do nighted stage move house to engage. and that was, you know, completely switch beverly was attention from why actually because the back from the gym is a proxy more. but a proxy word that will be filled out for a rather than by israel, by the united states. it's the same thing, but shifting the, the burden onto the bigger actor. you have uh, with the help of the united states, nathan, your whole calls to prevail in this brought a conflict with your um, you know, eventually a term uh, you know, turn out as and when there is ground. uh, confrontation uh against. uh, you know, remote meaning they just talked to them over on the floors bus, you know, reducing the uranium outrage of the beans lambs. busy the neighboring regions of neighboring regions for uh, for israel envelope i think it is very significant because easily mail is long

position you're on multiple is damian's, not addicts, but iran as the major as a special for, for itself. so the bailey. busy with this, like the spanish will thread, will make me the whole. yeah. we are, you know, one of the biggest winters in the survey and the history instead of a loser. because of the domestic political struggles and frictions actually made this, that best buy from us possible. i think these explain skills got on behaviors and don't want to ask her about the is rarely posting and problem which exists for so many days here. so that i think we all have become somewhat detached and desensitized to what is actually happening on the ground. and what is happening on the ground is that it's essentially a huge human pressure cooker and in gaza, that's been generating range and resistance for 3 generations. and perhaps one will continue to do so for me anymore. and it's like

a real live laboratory for turning humans into human blogs. because this is what people become when they're denied some semblance of dignified life. for way too long, can you even think about possible ways of defusing this mixer for co, explosive device made of millions of human souls? well, i think the oldest way to refuse this problem is degree to release the state. uh, to uh, you know, a change completely, the bullets as we've been conducting with, by israel we, they sell the united states. so they should have been deliberately trying, actually to, to solve this problem. you know, by, by the settlement flawlessly, by the eyes, elation ball is that uh by pointing people as being an issue, be all the brackets by focusing. busy iran by focusing won't be, is really solid in rep for us mom over the recent a months. you know, i m,

this made this explosion, really possible and editable. so if you do be, if you have to create the stadium state, hold, and bo this dino state forest. secondly, you have to guarantee its existence from the security perspective. for all the company perspective we have to, you know, do invest into ballast. i'm and bring some build up some real economy uh there with the help of neighboring countries that is in the bristol, because like your, the, your egypt israel itself. because after all, all now we see the, the color black does not really guarantee is really a secure thing. so we have to return to the spirit the also the agreements of mines in my into for emily jack basically depaula's this uh, the kind of been conducting wrongly off the words. but unfortunately more, but just by israel bus by the united states as well. can i ask you something here?

uh, because one of your colleagues for the piano uh said recently the one of the things that this or option of wireless has demonstrated is that a strategy of bonding time and essentially putting a frozen conflict on hold on hold in the hold. so if petering out by itself doesn't seem to work, it seems to be pretty dangerous. and the semblance of control that these rails may have had, has been not just broken. it was broken in a very humiliating and i totally sadistic way. but from what you've been suggesting about and it's in the apples attempt to move or to shift all the attention to it to ron, it seems like he's still pursuing the same tactic. what can possibly for swift israel to change its time guessing that americans want to be taking core arrived here by israel? well 1st of course you have to come bell and convince these rail. it leads and society of israel as well. you know,

to focus on palestine instead of iraq will be difficult. right? because isabel hasn't been convinced itself of your on most of the bull is being, it's being used as a central thread and the real and the real a danger. how to do it? well, i think that the world has changed a significant place since 19 7th is even a 9th in miners. and the major change is the emergence of the world majority. it is a subject of international affairs says something that does cares. huge agency or m, i are, you know, causes, lifestyle dio, ravia, egypt at target are no longer just objects of great power confrontation. they are the subjects. they are the actors of. they can create a new reality together with these were right. uh and uh, i think it,

we just are the dimensional community of the world majority simply needs to convince israel that it is impossible for israel to continue. uh, you know, the existing bulldozers as a, as it was it was more bring secure to say, you know, the united states as most of the, the kind of the united states that was in my engine light is extra with the interest to let, let me i'm sorry for interrupting you over time, but let me stop your desk here because this is a very important question. the role of the americans in these, this whole configuration. let's address it after a very, very short break. we will be back, stay tuned. the

there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case for the madness of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also of soon. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing press for so the funder line likes to say, we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals. what are you living on that we have very close propaganda, you know, price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask the better. the answer is will be the

welcome back to was a portsmouth demetrius, so slim deputy director of the center for comprehensive if you're a fan and international studies at the higher school of economics and must go meter . and just before the break, we were talking about the, the whole new world demand emerging, the global majority that the needs to put pressure on israel. and of course, it's impossible to have this conversation without mentioning the americans who have always assumed the role of a chaperone. of these rarely posting and conflicts, and i wonder, uh oh rather let me repeat the 2nd part of my previous question. that is, do you think the americans want to be used by israel is as the big proxy with big guns with lots of influence juicing. they want to be utilized in such a way that they usually utilize other countries of the united states. i think it is or is have put themselves in the very difficult position 1st they of by them

administration tries to build bridges with the world majority. i think the great and conflict it showed very explicitly of that the global majority is most at the side. the united states, the us is losing global view for us and they tried to reverse it. why it accommodating major countries in the global majority, including solve their area, which they do not wants to, you know, further. 1 a partnership with the, with china and dicing the, actually one of the major reasons why the us for promoting this solid is really repre swan is to try to at least limits the solid, the bottom if it was driving. so the states moves global majority. there's as far as point, but on the other hand, uh easily, oh, is it possible american domestic politics, not just the of the us for as well as a bunch of the american domestic politics. these really question is all you want,

you was, you know, that's, you know, it is very difficult for the united states. you know, they try to most to, and the nice israel on the why don't you have the come to for doing that because of the domestic political factors. but they called the 4th for the going to is a, so all the global mature, uh, at the same time. right. and uh, if the, what does it mean? it means that the united states for sarah can no longer monopolize the is available as the no question they try, they fail, they can no longer continue as in the, let's talk about monopolizing. because i mean, i think in this case provides a very important litmus test for leadership. and by leadership, i mean not just the rhetorical statements of support the nation, but the actual, difficult, painstaking work off why diplomacy, uh, negotiating skills, etc. and it doesn't seem like the united states possesses any of that. i mean,

now the situation is actually calling for a bold, responsible leadership and look at the, the track record, the floating in the united nations security council that they, they don't seem to be able to do anything. and, you know, like, and my question here is actually a, it is a visitation and demonstrating that the united states, even if it wants to be a leader. i mean, it can be a leader in a stations when you know if the participation is not necessary, but when it is calling for it, they don't seem to possess even the skills of approaching it as well. absolutely. absolutely. are you know, why didn't the continues to say the united states calls the world together? i think the reality is just the quarter. i think that's in the middle east. the original powers, the global majority, or the world much or the cap and what's the cap kept the situation together

or avoiding escalation. whereas the united states is the reason for these to be licensed agent. and now we see justin of questionable proofs of that in the case of the escalation in, in the uh, in the middle east. uh so indeed, the united states cannot provide the necessarily, they should be course, it is focused on other priorities because the priorities of the united states is struggling in china and struggling in getting process and keeping the middle east. either way that it cannot be title dominated by china or by russia. so the view of the situation from the perspective of great baldwin, competition, not from the perspective of originals to go to that. and also from the perspective of day domestic bolts go go by. the united states cannot be a fair and effective mediator. so you have to add to it creates the

participation of the world much your, that comprising of both global actors like russia, china, maybe brazil, you know, the brakes uh as a whole. and the regional players, of course, including israel, but. busy also including your on in the air of a major companies, i as the it as a, is the utilization of collective literacy. so most american junior level one but collective literature by the world majority, i think, is necessary to resolve this crisis now. now, uh, let us bring our discussion a little bit closer to home because of where the last 2 or 3 years we have well been following the confrontation in an over ukraine between russia and the collective west. and i've heard many analysis on the list, including yourself, said that the next world order, the new composition of the international system will be based on the outcome of

done by the battle. i wonder if what's happening in the middle east can change the prediction. do you see any implications all for this latest interruption of violence and the focus of international attack, attention on it for the ukrainian from? well, i think that's the middle eastern conflict is also a very clear indicator of the failure of the west to build new sustainable international order. right? the west, the united states has tried and failed and now it is impossible to bring sustainable stability into the middle east. or the, oh, i mean, we've all been assuming that it's the ultimate goal to create peace on the, you know, sustainable development. but uh, on the read too much buying into the american rhetoric. do they actually want to be that's what i'm saying. they don't, i'm in the best uh, you know, they,

they similarity between the ukraine off live down the middle east on the conflict. is that in both cases, united states is trying to, for a long day to jump on it. instead of building piece via the complex themselves are instruments for the united states to continue, it gives you more like bullets right, by defeating the birth of it. so in the middle east, they tried to weaken and defeated the wrong in the ukraine. they tried to weaken a defeat process and so on, so forth. so it's not about the deal is it's about the americans hegemony. right? uh, this as far as point. second point, of course, uh, the escalation in the middle east is a bad news for you. green because the, the, the, the goal of western media is distracted. political invention is distractive. just what was going on in the american congress won't just do it because the representatives, but even the republican senators, they've been traditionally more friendly. the graeme are claiming that in the

context of the escalation of the middle east, there's no way. well then i'd state to sustain the previous month because of that, that's the deal. they knew it was what they surveys and the career critical issue for us to discuss. because i know that a couple of months ago, you predicted that the, you more predicting that the united states uh would be increasing that military support. the visit landscape, government in quantitative and qualitative terms. uh, it seems like you are changing your opinion on that. i mean, is it uh, ultimately sustainable especially not only in the views of israel's plans, but within the prospect of a major regional conflict. they assure the united states many need that the weapons, those weapons square itself, the thing that i was absolutely right because i was making those predictions in the context of the beginning of ukrainian culture offensive towards the c o. as of

right, it was just the initial stages of, of course, the west was going to use this to helping ukraine in the full scale way to make this comp, if i call that offensive affective. so the, the west was really increasing. it's me, elizabeth felt through your great and quantitative weight as well as the delay over the last several months, including of course, the provision of cluster bombs or at that comes a long range, ballistic missiles, the promise to deliver essex, do you apply thursday and so on. and so forth. so it was really the case, but now this ration changed right on the major difference. why i have, i know, changing my opinion of this race on change a, the cranium called on offensive failed every while it recognizes that. secondly, user ele, uh, is more vital and emailed them to priority for the uh, for the united states. so uh they can together of course, the west will reduce the color of the quote that the, its uh, shelves,

to uh you. ready the binder ministration will not right you agree was but i think we should forget about any prospect of another major degree. i'm calling professor next year at least right here. and can i ask you something very quick because we have running out of time, but i think this is a coastal problem. you've been riding along the, the, one of the major reasons for confrontation of this russian. the western side is what it are. western attempts to, uh, st, rushed off with great power status and re power means being able to influence events practically, on the ground, diplomatically, economically. sometimes, militarily, do you think they may ever come a point when the united states would not supply those russian abilities to influence the balance, but actually try to benefit from them either in ukraine or let's say in the context

of the middle east. because russia does have a lot of capacity for settling disputes in a fair and balanced way. well, the idea of list, the image that you have created requires a fundamental change of the major problem it there. so the us for the ball is the most and see that in the making in the observable future. i think that during the next 1015 maybe 20 years, the united states will be still obsessed with the great power struggle. struggling russia and struggling china will be focused on uh, you know, uh, preservation of american primacy. and he gemini, in the world, even in the absence of it's a huge you, i'm gonna, of the even, you know, despite a certain generational change of, despite the change of the mood and model, republicans, i'm, the left is the liberal democrats,

the us foreign policy is still monopolized by the deep state and the traditional establishment which are committed to the post cold war paradigm of the us global leadership. so much more internal and external crisis. unfortunately, we won't be required. and for the united states to reject this policy or confronting a rush, or they will continue the cartridge war against russia. and systemic consolidation of bullets is unfortunately, you opt uh there is a ceasefire or resolution of the conflict in the ukraine. they will continue. st. joe's they will continue to demonize asian overall. so unfortunately, i do not see any indication of any c and uh, for a change of american foreign policy. these are the last uh uh to the uh, toward some improvement in the, uh,

in the observable prospect in the longer term prospect. and even when the united states final it accepts the yellow, it is a multi polarity and starts to play a role of one. among many. this change would certainly become inevitable elementary airplane to the very black or rather pessimistic picture. i would use the israel's, the recent problems as a glory, but to some extent inspiring example, because reality still has its ways of imposing himself onto perceptions. and if that happened to is around maybe that will also happen to the united states. although i hope in the less bloody way we, we have to leave it there, but it's been a great pleasure, as always for me to talk to thank you very much for your insights. thank you. it's on always blessed. thank you for watching hope to hear again, kind of was a part of the

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entire buddy. i'm rick sanchez. i've been doing news now for 30 years to languages all over the world. here in the united states. interviewed for presidents worked at for the us as major television networks. i don't like what they do. i think news should be honest, direct, and impactful. and this, this is direct impact the and we're starting with the obvious right. these come off attacks on his railey citizens and most of all the massacre that we all saw at the music festival and then seemed to shock the world. it was unexpected. and israel seemed caught by surprise. however, since the attack, a lot of questions had been res, that's too well. how is it that the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus in the entire world.