to make the problem the 1000000 times worse, which would explain why i pro palestinian protests are now popping up everywhere in europe and growing. and there's certainly a sense that the folks in charge have tilted the playing fields in favor of israel and that it desperately needs lovely. and the people are taking to the streets in order to do just that. sorry, that's a it from me. phenomenal i colleague, you know neil is here with the desk and a half an hour as time. perhaps you can join him then. but for the meantime, for all of us here at all c international and most good, we wishing you a very happy something. the

hello and welcome to worlds apart. until a few weeks ago, the conflict in ukraine was treated in western media as a major threat to the rules based order. and one that is most likely to decide the outcome of a battle between the forces of democratic booth and alter project eagle. the russian of violence in the middle east has manifested a totally new order of brutality which has made it so much more difficult, even for the southwest, north west, to take sides or go for an easy solutions. what does this crisis mean for the international system? will discuss that i'm now joined by demetrius. so slow deputation, director of the center for comprehensive if your opinion and international studies are the highest full of economics in moscow. let me trans group to see you again.

thank you very much for your time. hello. i saw the nice to meet you, nice to see you or was pleasure. thank you. now, let me 1st ask, you know, there's a schooler but is a colleague of mine as a media professional and for our audience, i want to mention that demetrius also hosting a geo political show called great game on one of russia's biggest channels. um, i think is media professionals. we have just witnessed a major change in the, in how global media currents flow because of the reality and gas of was so unexpected. and so shocking that i think you called many western media or guard, then they were put in the to situation when they actually have to report on death reality, rather than trying to preemptively shape the the frame. and so in that case, very rare case, reality seems to be something perceptions. what does it mean in terms of the global

uh, informational award because of where they realize it or not, their, their reason battle of narratives going on. like a sudden i think this is a very significant developments in the west on media and several cents. first, of course the wisdom media. it was called of god because we all remember it was 3 weeks ago, jake solve them. the national security advisor, united states, tried to convince everyone that the middle east was in the most peaceful position within decades right on the west of need. it seemed to believe that they deliberately tried to ignore the question of these available is the new off list and we'll just kind of be off the brackets thing with forget about it and focus on different things. second points uh, i think that was going on in gaza now is the putting the west, the media in a very awkward position. and the west is basically losing the global information

more because israel unquestionably is a part of the bustle, the west. but today after experiencing this. busy looking at back there was that back, israel in it's term is conducting a process is on such a scale that you can't really present that support shape the narrative. busy a justified abrupt. busy and the use of force and justified self defense you, you've got to do it. and uh, this really boats, the media in the report, what position they step to report on what's going on. instead of trying to shape the narrative of easy way of being on the good side of history, i wonder how do you understand the math? half was government seeming resolved to take guys and by force because for all hughes fiber and rhetoric, benjamin netanyahu is known as a highly calculating politician. he cannot be ignorant of all the possible

repercussions of such a move military civilian economic international. and by proceeding with a military operation is really wouldn't be destroying the very status for the itself. how to create and maintain why take such as future risk as well. uh 1st i, i think, you know, within your leads its uh, 2 bro, lowercase political existence. you know, because people and where to ask questions, how it all would happen. people both of the blame on the a by the way and his government personally cleaning quite right. lit. uh that uh certain uh, indicators were more uh at the level of political leadership and they actually made this a situation possible. so they be, are the political responsibility in order to avoid paying the price for. busy that i think if i'm the uncle wants to the soul, the car on the golf live in a bigger gold flip. which key is now trying to deliberately create the bigger

conflict, i think is a conflict with bureau and what we are seeing. and i think this is of a madison phones news that yahoo is trying to do to shift the narrative for the, you know, completely see the narrative claiming that what is going on. he has nothing to do with the goal is the name is really conflict. bruce that the real reason before uh the uh for the crisis is your app. but yeah, the, i mean, sure. did you hear something? because i think this is a very interesting analysis of the assignments done. having a war with around the which is still a state actor, therefore it's far more responsible and in some ways more predictable. what suit israel's current situation? because of the one hand you don't have to invade gaza as they have been uh, suggesting or have been talking about. but on the other hand,

it essentially it allows them to have a more. but this sort of an easier word is that what you're suggesting? well, it's not necessarily easy, it was a certainly it'd be go more of a war on several fronts because it would definitely involve kids belie and the level. well, in general, it was also editable. it seems to be involved with the united states and they say it on yelp was calculus. is that if there is such a such an escalation of the war from just if you're a low go conflict in gaza to a broader conflict, at least with. busy busy be around your brooks's and at the maximum, with your own itself, the united states would have to engage. and that would, you know, complete bliss. we have what it was that, that shouldn't, for all. why actually because the back from the and what's the use of him is it proxy more but a proxy word that will be the 4th a rather than by israel,

by the united states. it's the same thing, but shifting the, the burden onto the bigger actor. you have uh, with the help of the united states meet the whole cold still prevail in this broader conflict with your um, you know, eventually a term uh, you know, turn out as and wheeler is ground. uh, consolidation against uh you know, remote meaning they just talk to them over on the floors bus, you know, reducing the uranium outrage and the beams, lambs. busy the neighboring regions, neighboring regions for uh, for israel envelope i think it is very significant because these rail as long position you're on multiple is dns. not alex, but iran as the major as a special for, for itself. so veiling. busy with this, like the spanish will thread, will make me but yeah, whole yeah, we are, you know, one of the biggest winters in the isabel history instead of

a loser because of domestic political struggles and frictions actually made this, that, that bike, almost possible. i think this explains skills, got them behaviors and don't want to ask you about the israeli posting and problem which exists for so many days that i think we all have become somewhat detached and desensitized to what is actually happening on the ground and what is happening on the ground is that it's essentially a huge human pressure cooker and in gaza, that's been generating range and resistance for 3 generations and perhaps want we'll continue to do so for many more. um, it's like a real live laboratory for training humans into human blogs because this is what people become when they are denied some semblance of dignified life. for way too long, can you even think about possible ways of defusing? these mits are for co explosive device made of millions of human souls. well,

i think the oldest way to refuse this problem is degree to release the state. uh to uh, you know, a change completely. the bullet says we should be contacting with by easily a we, they sell the united states. so they should have been deliberately trying actually do this, solve this problem. you know, by, by the settlement flawlessly, by the eyes, elation ball is say, like 20 people is the name you should be, all the brackets by focusing on your, on, by focusing won't be, is really solve the problem small over the recent uh months. you know, i have this made this explosion, the really possible inevitable. so you be, if you have to create the listing and stay cool and below this dino state forest. secondly, you'll have to guarantee gives existence from the security perspective for all day come on a perspective you have to, you know,

do invest into ballast time and bring some of build up some real economy. uh there was the help of neighboring countries that is being being installed. god was like jordan. yeah, it egypt israel and sell because after all, ok, now we see that the car back does not really guarantee is really a secure thing. so we have to return to this bureau at the hospital, the agreements of 1994. emily jack basically the policy is uh, the parent being conducting wrongly off the words, but unfortunately more but just by israel bus by the united states as well. can i ask you something here? uh, because one of your colleagues for the piano uh said recently the one of the things that this or option of wireless has demonstrated is that a strategy of bonding time and essentially putting a frozen conflict on hold on hold in the hopes of if petering out by itself

doesn't seem to work, it seems to be pretty dangerous. and the semblance of control that these rails may have had, has been not just broken. it was broken in a very humiliating and i totally sadistic way. but from what you've been suggesting about in this, in the office attempt to move or to shift all the attention to it to ron, it seems like he's still pursuing the same tactics. what can possibly for swift israel to change its time guessing the americans want to be taking for arrive here by israel? well 1st of course you have to come down and convince these railey leads and society in israel as well. you know, to focus on palestine instead of iraq will be difficult. right? because visa, okay, hasn't been convinced itself off your on most of the bull is being, it's being used as a special threat. and the real uh, and the real a danger. how to do it?

well i think that the world has changed significantly. ready since my engine settled is even a 9th and miners and the major change is the emergence of the world, the majority of it as a subject of international affairs, as something that does cause huge agency or m, i are, you know, causes, lifestyle, the egypt of talk is no longer just the objects of great power confrontation, they are the subjects. they are the actors of. they can create a new reality together with these were right. uh and uh, i think it, we just are the dimensional community of the world. majority. it simply needs to convince israel that it is impossible for uh, easily able to continue. uh, you know, the existing bullets this as it, as it was, it was more bring secure to say, you know, the united states as last the,

the kind of the united states that was in my engine light is extra with the interest and let, let me, i'm sorry for interrupting you over time, but let me stop your desk here because this is a very important question. the role of the americans in these, this whole conflagration. let's address it after a very, very short break. we will be back, stay tuned. the, the, the, [000:00:00;00]

the welcome back to was a portsmouth demetrius, so slim deputy director of the center for comprehensive if you're being an international studies at the higher school of economics and must go metering just before the break. we were talking about the, the whole new world demand emerging, the global majority, the, the needs to put pressure on israel. and of course, it's impossible to have this conversation without mentioning the americans who have always assumed the role of a chaperone of these rarely posting and conflicts. and i wonder, uh oh, rather let me repeat the 2nd part of my previous question. that is, do you think the americans want to be used by israel is as the big proxy with big guns with lots of influence juicing. they want to be utilized in such a way that they usually utilize other countries. low the united states. i think it

is our use of put themselves in the very difficult position. first. they are a bite on administration, tries to build bridges with the world majority. i think the great and conflict that showed very explicitly of that the global majority is multi at the side of the united states, the us as losing global influence. and they try to reverse it, white accommodating majors congress in the global majority, the including solidarity, which they do not want, you know, further a partnership with the, with the china and the icing. that actually one of the major reasons why the us for promoting this solid is really rep or as long is to try to is the limits, the solid, the bottom as it was driving. so the states needs global majority. there's as far as point, but the other hand uh easily oh is it possible american domestic politics not just the old. the us for. busy was

a bunch of the american domestic politics. these really question is of you and you was, you know, that's, you know, it is very difficult for the united states. you know, they try to most, to attack an ice israel on the why don't you have the cold therefore, doing that because of the domestic political factors. but they call the 4th for the is ation of the global majority of the same. but right, and uh, in the, what does that mean? it means that the united states, per se, can no longer monopolize the, is available as the new question. they try, they fail. they can no longer continue as in the let's talk about monopolizing because, i mean, i think this in this case provides a very important listen, was test for leadership. and by leadership, i mean not just the rhetorical statements of support the nation, but the actual, difficult, painstaking work of, uh, diplomacy, uh, negotiating skills,

etc. and it doesn't seem like the united states possesses any of that. i mean, now decision is actually calling for a bold, responsible leadership and look at the, the track records of floating in the united nations security council. there they, they don't seem to be able to do anything and, you know, like, and my question here is actually, uh, is this is this situation uh, demonstrating that the united states, even if it wants to be a leader. i mean, it can be a leader in a stations when you know if the participation is not necessary, but when it is calling for it, they don't seem to possess even the skills of approaching it as well. absolutely, absolutely. you know, by the continues to say the united states all the world together. i think the reality is just the quarter. i think that's in the needle is the original powers, the global majority,

or the world much your the cap. and once the cap kept the situation together, avoiding escalation, whereas the united states is the reason for these to be licensed agent. and now we see just the questionable proof of that in the case of the escalation in uh, in the uh, in the middle east. uh, so in the united states, kim lot provides the necessarily the ser, uh the course. it is focused on other priorities because the yours as of the united states is struggling gays, china and struggling gains process and the mtv, the middle east. either way, this could be, it cannot be title dominated by china or by russia. so the view of the situation from the perspective of great baldwin, competition, not from the perspective of regional security. and also from the perspective of the mystic bulk go go by the united states cannot be

a fair and the effective media either. so you have to add to it creates the participation of the world much your, the, comprising of both global actors like russia, china, maybe brazil, you know, the brakes. uh as a cool in the regional player. so of course, including israel, but also including your on in the air of a major companies, i as the it as a, as an institutionalized visual collective literacy. so most american junior level one but collective literature by the world majority, i think, is necessary to resolve this crisis now. now, uh, let us bring our discussion a little bit closer to home because of where the last 2 or 3 years we have well been following the confrontation in an over ukraine between russia and the collective west. and i've heard many on our analyst, including yourself, said that the next world order,

the new composition of the international system will be based on the outcome of done by the battle. i wonder if what's happening in the middle east can change the prediction. do you see any implications all for this latest interruption of violence and the focus of international attack, attention on it for the ukrainian from? well, i think the middle eastern conflict is also a very clear indicator of the failure of the west to build new sustainable international order. right? the west of the united states has tried and failed, and now it is impossible to bring sustainable stability into the middle east or the one the oh, i mean, we've all been assuming that it's the ultimate goal to create peace and the you know, sustainable development. but uh, on 32 months buying into the american rhetoric,

do they actually want to be there's what i'm saying? they don't, i mean, best, you know, they'd be similarity between the ukraine off live down the middle east on the conflict. is that in both cases, united states is trying to, for a long day to jump on it. instead of building piece right out of the complex themselves are instruments for the united states to continue. it's gives you more forces right by defeating the birth of it. so the needle is they tried to weaken and defeated the wrong in the ukraine. they tried to weaken a defeat process and so on, so forth. so it's not about stability, it's about the americans to germany. right? uh, this as far as point. second point, of course, uh, the escalation in the middle east is a bad news for you green because the, the, the, the global and wisdom media is distract the political invention. is this fact of just what was going on in the american congress won't just do it because the representatives, but even the republican senators,

they've been traditionally more friendly. the graeme are claiming that in the context of the escalation of the middle east, there is no way well then either states to sustain the previous model because of the them. so they'll be able to support the career critical issue. but uh for us to discuss because i know that a couple of months ago, you predicted that the, you more predicting that the united states uh would be increasing that military support, the visit landscape, government in quantitative and qualitative terms. uh, it seems like uh your changing your opinion on that, i mean is it. 5 ultimately sustainable, especially not only in the views of israel's plans, but within the prospect of a major regional conflict, they assure the united states many need that the weapons, those weapons squared south. oh, i think that i was absolutely right because i was making those predictions in the

context of the beginning of ukrainian calendar offensive towards the sea of us. all right, it was just in the initial stages of, of course, the west was going to be this to helping you grain in a full scale way to make this comp. and if i come from offensive affective so the, the west was really increasing. it's me, elizabeth felt through your grading quantities of weight as well as the delay over the last several months, including of course, the provision of cluster balls of at tech comes a long range, ballistic missiles, the promise to deliver at $165.00 thursday and so on. and so forth. so it was really the case, but now this ration changed, right? the major difference why i have, i know, changing my opinion of this race on change a, the cranium content offensive failed every while it recognizes that. secondly, user ele, uh, is more vital and emailed them to priority and for the uh, for the united states. so they can, together of course,

the west will reduce the quality of the quantity of its, uh, shelves to you. ready the by the ministration will not provide you green balls, but i think we should forget about a prospect of another major degree. i'm calling profess as next year. at least right here in can i ask something very quick because we are running out of time, but i think this is a coastal problem you've been riding along the the, one of the major reasons for confrontation of is the rush on the western side is what it are western attempts to uh, strip rushed off with great power status and re power means being able to influence events practically, on the ground, diplomatically, economically. sometimes, militarily, do you think they may ever come a point when the united states would not supply those russian abilities to influence the balance,

but actually try to benefit from them either in the ukraine or let's say in the context of the middle east. because russia does have a lot of capacity for settling disputes in a fair and balanced way. well, the idea of listing image that you have created requires a fundamental change all the major parameters of the us for in baltimore and see that in the making in the observable future. i think that during the next 1015 maybe 20 years, the united states will be still obsessed with the great power struggle. struggling russia and struggling china will be focused on uh, you know, uh, preservation of american primacy. and he gemini, in the world, even in the absence of it's a huge you, i'm a name of the even, you know, despite a certain generational change of, despite the change of the mood and model,

republicans, i'm, the left is the liberal democrats, the u. s. foreign policy is still monopolized by the deep state and the traditional establishment which are committed to the boss cold war paradigm of the us global leadership. so much more internal and external crisis unfortunately wouldn't be a require or for the united states to reject. this policy will come from being a roster. they will continue the hybrid war against bratia and systemic confident ational bonuses. unfortunately, you will opt uh there is a ceasefire. or resolution of the conflict in the ukraine. they will continue sanctions. they will continue to demonize ational process. unfortunately, i do not see any indication of any c and uh, for a change of american for in bull as a visa gosh, or uh, to the uh,

toward some improvement in the, uh, in the observable uh, prospect in the longer term prospect and effect when the united states final, it accepts the yellows as a multi polarity and starts to play a role of one among many. this change will certainly become in the editable elementary. i painted a very black or rather pessimistic picture. i would the use, the israel's, the recent problems as a glory, but to some extent inspiring example, because reality still has its ways of, of imposing himself onto perceptions. and if that happened to is around maybe that will also happen to the united states. although i hope in the less blood the way we, we have to leave it there, but it's been a great pleasure, as always for me to talk to you. thank you very much for your insights. thank you. it's on the post list. thank you for watching hope to share again. kind of was a part of

the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case for the madness of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also absurd. this is the 3rd world will receive re washing as for so the funder line likes to say,

we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals. what is, let me let me on mind. you have very quick propaganda. you know a price here in your i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. some more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the explosions. rock gaza is really extends its ground. operations intensifies its plumbing company, us the palestinian debt to reported the top 10000 people. thousands are struggling to survive and find our loved ones. the devastating consequences of the top of the announced on the radio. the old phone and internet services had been cut off